[Asia/Oceania] Forget About Chips - China Is Coming for Ships

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Forget About Chips - China Is Coming for Ships

(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

so like i was driving and briefly listening to npr again b/c i hate myself and
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=768569711

quote:

Those trends are part of the reason why China's economy has stalled over the past decade. And it's hard to disentangle the effects of that broader economic slowdown from the effects of the trade war. But talking about any of this stuff in China can get you into trouble.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 11:38

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:06

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Lightning Knight posted:

this isn�t an easy question to answer when sources are poor and the sources that exist have an incentive to lie, but what China is doing to the Uighur population is less genocide and more ethnic cleansing. It is not, at least insofar as can be told from the outside, an attempt to kill and slaughter, it�s an attempt to bend and break and erase a culture and religious minority they find inconvenient, troublesome, or dangerous.

It�s why I still think the best relative comparison is the North American forced boarding school system perpetrated against Native Americans. That system, too, was not trying to kill the Native population, although it too undoubtedly resulted in death and physical abuse. It was trying to destroy the concept of being Native.

In that case too, North America justified the program as for the good of Native people, and further justified violence and cultural erasure as necessary due to violence on the part of Native people, ignoring why that violence came to be in the first place. Terrorism and sectarian violence doesn�t happen in a vacuum - there�s usually a background history of tension or oppression to motivate the minority group.

the native american example also conveniently comes packaged with an example of a demonstration of the definition of genocide

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 22:31

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

so in addition to the alleged ethnic cleansing aspects, wouldn't the allegations of mass detention be comparable to the concentration camps that the US ran for japanese people in the 1940s and the mass concentration camps we are literally running right now? there's lots of verifiable evidence here in the mainstream press of torture, sexual abuse, deaths, but we didn't call this genocide even if these concentration camps are a human rights atrocity and could be a prelude to genocide

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 22:44

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

so i'm looking into these allegations at websites like this:
http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/genocide-of-the-uyghurs-in-western-china

and the allegations are definitely what I would count as "cultural genocide"

but the allegations do not include systematic wide scale murder planned or otherwise

if we in the united states were to apply the same standards to ourselves in a colloquial manner, as far as i'm aware we wouldn't call our oppressive re-education policies of indigenous people and so on trying to erase their culture as "genocide". that term is reserved for stuff like the mass murder of native americans, the centuries of war, and the mass forced relocation from ancestral homelands to undesirable land

so when people call out people for denying the "uyghur genocide", are they referring to just these allegations of "cultural genocide", mass surveillance, oppression, and imprisonment?

i think this should be pretty concerning given the western media's history of fabricating claims of mass murder and callously throwing around the term genocide since it would undermine action on genocides (i.e. mass murder) that turned out to be actually happening. is the western media conflating erasure of culture and mass murder by using the term genocide and confusing people? am i just the crazy person for thinking using the term genocide for cultural erasure and mass oppression is inappropriate given we don't apply those same standards and definitions to our own US history?

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 23:20

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i mean as long as we're willing to call the concentration camps throughout US history and that are happening right now with absolutely atrocious conditions genocidal sure

i think my concern here is it doesnt meet the colloquial definition of genocide from the american experience or lens, although maybe it absolutely meets that bar for the international perspective

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 23:41

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

if you're consistent with your definitions more power to you and i'm cool with that from your cultural lens. i can see how some other perspectives would consider a systematic attempt to erase cultures or detain people could fall under a term like genocide

so like speaking from the american experience, if people were saying the current concentration camps are genocide, people in america who support the concentration camps can try to show there's no systematic mass murder therefore it calls into question all the other allegations of sexual abuse, human trafficking, torture, deaths, etc. and dilutes efforts to try to stop the concentration camps

i think there's a qualitative difference between the mass murder genocide the US is supporting in say yemen and the mass torture and internment of targeted demonized minorities in the US and americans IME tend to use different words for the two scenarios

# ¿ Oct 12, 2019 00:51

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Autism Sneaks posted:

if the Blizzard subforum is Free Hong Kong now then I propose C-SPAM change to One China

# ¿ Oct 12, 2019 17:08

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

is there any reporting or analysis about the uighurs' treatment in china that an american can read that isn't from a western propaganda institution that has been lying for decades to further what william blum called the ongoing "american holocaust"

this is an unironic request b/c western institutions have so thoroughly eradicated their own credibility there's basically nothing i can believe anymore except analysis and reporting from people who acknowledge the prior observations of which there is a very scant few lol

# ¿ Oct 12, 2019 17:35

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

the NHS in britain covered homeopathy at some point although they might've put a stop to that

# ¿ Oct 13, 2019 22:46

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Some Guy TT posted:

clearly you missed the post earlier in the thread clarifying that the epoch times is actually one of the most trustworthy publications currently reporting on china

i have been informed by a goon in another venue of a reputable source of news on china
https://www.bellingcat.com/tag/china/

# ¿ Oct 14, 2019 04:21

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

dore likes to rhetorically ask if obama needed to bomb muslims at the airports before people took notice at how obama was treating muslims when there was such outrage at the trump muslim travel bans

# ¿ Oct 19, 2019 03:45

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i've seen multiple videos of hong kong protestors beating up isolated cops then running away with the cop not firing their firearm

and then i remember that an american offduty cop who got knocked down in a scuffle with a mentally ill man pulled out his pistol and immediately started unloading killing the man and also shooting his dad and mom in the process

# ¿ Oct 24, 2019 04:07

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i think the oppressive police reaction to the hong kong protests is lovely

but the contrast i see with the hong kong police (in the limited clips i've seen itt) and the abominable behavior of american police that i'm more familiar with is stark

# ¿ Oct 24, 2019 04:17

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

tankie wolff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTJtCOE9lto&t=39s

# ¿ Nov 5, 2019 12:33

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

how does the inquisition ascertain the difference between a hk resident and a mainlander

is this somehow different than people in texas deciding to randomly inflict violence on people they deem non-texan

# ¿ Nov 11, 2019 15:40

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

that makes sense although now i'm imagining an american getting beaten by other americans because they do or do not have a southern drawl (i assume this has actually happened multiple times in american history)

# ¿ Nov 11, 2019 16:48

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

You can kill people dropping heavy objects onto a freeway from an overpass. It's happened before multiple times.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2019 02:18

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

tankie wolff on the hong kong protests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwqz5dTzkA&t=3179s

# ¿ Nov 15, 2019 00:09

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

actually it was the yellow vest protests in france that caused the hong kong protests

at least if you want to use temporal ordering as a causation

# ¿ Nov 16, 2019 09:08

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

please desist from posting the hotdog rice it gives me a visceral reaction like rhode island pizza

# ¿ Nov 17, 2019 21:01

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Doctor Nick posted:

These idiot tankies are going to look as stupid as Chomsky did when it came to the Khmer Rouge.

how did chomsky look stupid about the khmer rouge

# ¿ Nov 17, 2019 22:21

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

yah that only looks bad if you think that not uncritically accepting western media without skepticism counts as bad if it turns out some of their complete fabrications turned out correct

the people pushing this absurd notion never think to recount the complete fabrications of other atrocities that turned out to be completely incorrect after the dust has settled, justifying the skeptics almost every single time

edit: added in a not

comedyblissoption has issued a correction as of 00:50 on Nov 18, 2019

# ¿ Nov 18, 2019 00:39

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Doctor Nick posted:

All those fabrications (say for example, the iraqi incubator story) usually came from single sources and fell apart under the simplest of scrutiny.

The evidence that what is occurring in Xinjiang is widespread and amounts to cultural genocide is widely varied and comes from multiple sources (witness testimonies, satellite photos, drone footage, and now leaked internal documents), and deniers are having to resort to increasingly absurd theories to dispute them.

i mean there's wmds, iraq has links to al-qaeda, the claims of mass graves and mass genocide on a gigantic scale before the kosovo war, gulf of tonkin, the claims of imminent mass civilian death in libya, and on and on and on and on endlessly. these aren't just isolated issues that are refuted quickly. they result in invasions, mass deaths, coups, and failed states. you can find a giant list in killing hope for cold war conflicts. even more damning is this consistent way in which western media doesn't talk about or covers up western supported atrocities. this insane poo poo unanimous western media goosestepping to fabricate a narrative is going on right now in bolivia.

one of the things that chomsky was complaining about in regards to western reporting on the khmer rouge was that the western media were wildly circulating claims based on a secondary source grossly misquoting and mischaracterizing a primary french source. now the fact that the khmer rouge did actually cause mass deaths on a scale of these fabrications does not somehow make the fabrications any less false.

does this mean xinjiang is not an example of oppression? no. does this mean we should uncritically accept western media narratives of xinjiang given the long history of outright lying? also no.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2019 07:22

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

sweating profusely while looking at two buttons saying "condemn" or "support" the burning of a trump effigy

# ¿ Dec 4, 2019 23:32

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

after seeing the LOL thing, now this... china's outward-facing info ministry people are stepping up the beef

https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1202590786010963970

drat we're going to need a Good country to invade and coup the cruel despotic US regime

# ¿ Dec 5, 2019 18:50

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

wrap it up ameriailures

*worms crawling out of my skull screeching population density and legacy infrastructure*

# ¿ Dec 12, 2019 03:43

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

the specter of pro-fascist tankies

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 05:41

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Some Guy TT posted:

giving preferential treatment to business people in terms of prosecution sounds bad but uh these people are acting like this is some new thing that china invented obama refused to prosecute anyone in wall street for the financial crash using the exact same logic

the really weird part is that most of the time rags like the financial times are making GBS threads on china for the exact opposite reason that china is too mean to white collar criminals and stifling the wisdom of the invisible hand so im not sure who this line of attack is even supposed to appeal to considering their target audience

since bank drug laundering and mass financial fraud goes unprosecuted while poor people selling loosies in the streets get extrajudicially murdered with swarms of cops surrounding you, matt taibbi makes a moral case that you should basically jury nullify any nonviolent crime that does not rise to that level

# ¿ Dec 17, 2019 06:45

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Atopian posted:

My sense of time is awful but not that awful, so I think there was something more within the past year.
Although digging stuff up about it would probably be tricky because disappearing mildly critical social media posts is also something a grown-up government concerns itself with in tyool2019.

the us government and israel censors mildly critical anti-imperialist or anti-apartheid social media posts, just so you're aware that this is not a phenomenon exclusive to the orient

# ¿ Dec 22, 2019 09:03

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

it's fine to criticize the chinese government's censorship, but making a sarcastic comment about a "grown-up government" implies this is somehow uniquely chinese

# ¿ Dec 22, 2019 13:57

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

screaming about genocide denial is mostly about killing lf again so you can return to an ideological safe space where you can hoot and holler about bombing brown people without the negative nancies showing up

# ¿ Dec 23, 2019 02:35

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Atopian posted:

My use of that term relates to the difference between the topics.
Imperialism (and, to an extent, apartheid) are very relevant to the pursuits of either certain western governments and/or influential political groups within them. Avoiding criticism of these things is therefore a morally repellent but understandable pursuit.

But, Chinese government vs The Big Bad Gays, wtf?
Judge someone by their enemies, etc.

the us government criminalized being gay for a long time, homophobia as government policy worsened the aids epidemic, and american politicians literally stump on returning to that era

homophobia is terrible and the chinese government should rightfully be criticized for it and this is definitely the right place to talk about it, but stop acting like homophobia as government policy is a uniquely chinese phenomenon

# ¿ Dec 23, 2019 10:19

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

like, it literally hasn't even been 5 years yet from the narrow 5-4 obergefell v hodges scotus decision to legalize gay marriage

# ¿ Dec 23, 2019 10:31

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

drat im jealous i said the western media fabricated claims of mass genocide in kosovo and all i got was a sixer

# ¿ Dec 28, 2019 00:39

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

in one of richard wolff's global capitalism talks, he talks about how the media and american academic intelligentsia are just openly viciously racist towards the chinese and their successes in the world. being racist or hostile toward declared state enemies is normalized and just a given

# ¿ Dec 28, 2019 18:27

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/kenroth/status/1212183746755080192?s=21

ah yes the pro-fascist tankies

# ¿ Jan 2, 2020 04:05

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

HerraS posted:

if only those gullible africans stopped trusting the insidious chinamen building railways and instead put their trust in honest westerners who *checks notes* bombed a nation with the highest standard of living on the continent back to the stone age and left it to rot

cyka blyat posted:

Lol why does everything have to be whataboutism with the United States? The US absolutely screwed over Africa. But guess what, so is China. Maybe Africa shouldnt be getting screwed over by any outside powers, whether they be nominally democratic Capitalists or nominally communist Capitalists.

just in absolute awe how one of the worst atrocities so far of the 21st century continuously goes in one ear and out the other

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 03:22

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

also, the US was not the only western power that was party to bombing libya into the stone age

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 03:34

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i glanced at the wikipedia page on that bombing and laughed at something

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 03:37

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:06

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

also, part of the speculation on why libya was bombed into the stone age was that qadaffi was making pronouncements and moves toward more african autonomy

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 03:40

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