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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




I'm much of the same mind. I'll probably have a cheapie chromebook 2:1 to kick around for times when I want to bring something a bit more computery but don't really want to bring something expensive along (I have the HP X2 11 right now that fits that role), but I don't know that I'll be buying another premium chromebook. For one, the main thing I like about ChromeOS is the instant on with very minimal battery standby drain and I get that now with my MacBook Pro 14. For second all the premium chromebooks out there now are just traditional clamshells or convertibles with none of the design flair that made the Pixelbook special.

It was a powerful fanless/ventless device that was extremely thin and light with a 3:2 screen and a distinctive industrial design.

The HP Dragonfly chromebook is superior in every metric, but it just feels so traditional notebook so I don't have any enthusiasm for it.

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UncleGuito
May 8, 2005

www.ipadbackdrops.com daily wallpaper updates deserving of your iPad


I got the Elite Dragonfly through work a few weeks back to replace my 2020 MBP. It's fantastic so far. Would I pay $1000+ for it as a personal device though? Definitely not.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




The price tag doesn't really bother me too much, it's just a matter of it wouldn't make me interested enough in it to use it frequently.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


I've been using various Chromebooks since 2014 and never bought a Pixelbook. I prefer cheaper models as I don't really need the performance and I like something that I can easily replace.

However, I have to give Google credit keeping a careful eye over OEMs such that pretty much any model out there has the same (key) layout and general physical characteristics, unlike the jank-rear end designs of the netbook era. I hope this group disbanding doesn't affect this oversight as Chromebooks are one of the very few products where pretty much anything in the $300-400 range is going to meet a baseline level of quality.

mystes
May 31, 2006



ExcessBLarg! posted:

I've been using various Chromebooks since 2014 and never bought a Pixelbook. I prefer cheaper models as I don't really need the performance and I like something that I can easily replace.

However, I have to give Google credit keeping a careful eye over OEMs such that pretty much any model out there has the same (key) layout and general physical characteristics, unlike the jank-rear end designs of the netbook era. I hope this group disbanding doesn't affect this oversight as Chromebooks are one of the very few products where pretty much anything in the $300-400 range is going to meet a baseline level of quality.
I don't think that will change unless they just axe chrome os entirely

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013





I'm honestly thinking about getting another cheap Acer 2-in-1 Chromebook because my old one is such a nice piece of hardware. It's getting further out of date since it EOLed a couple months ago, but it still works just fine otherwise and currently serves as my bathroom news reader. I have an old Surface I could try for the same purpose, but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

Xiphas
Nov 5, 2004


UncleGuito posted:

I got the Elite Dragonfly through work a few weeks back to replace my 2020 MBP. It's fantastic so far. Would I pay $1000+ for it as a personal device though? Definitely not.

The Dragonfly is a nice machine, but it doesn't quite do it for me. I got the Pixelbook when it first dropped to 750, and I'm not willing to go much above that. I think at this point I'd prefer to go for an ARM system for the battery life, better Android capability, and fanless design.

I think the Acer Chromebook Spin 513 is the only thing on the market right now that is close to what I imagine the cancelled Pixelbook would have been. It's just so ugly compared to the original Pixelbook. I bet that the rumored 2nd gen Tensor chip would have performed a bit better than the Kompanio as well.

waffle iron
Jan 16, 2004


I'm waiting for more 12th gen Intel Chromebooks to hit the market. Something i5 or higher and thunderbolt in the 500-700 dollar range. I think the Acer 714 and 513 are about it.

Although my Asus C434's battery is starting to show its age.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




The real thing that pulled me away from Chromebooks is ARM macbooks. I'm not generally an apple person and for a lot of stuff I don't really like how MacOS behaves. However, my main use case for a Chromebook was to pick it up when I wanted a full keyboard and/or full browser, do my thing, close it, and then put it on the shelf again for the next time I would need it. Instant on, instant sleep, next to zero standby battery drain.

And, well, ARM Macbooks will do exactly that. The Macbook Pro 14 is way overkill for that, but I was too enamored with the screen to walk away. But if you start playing in the near $1k space, it's hard to deny that a M1 Macbook air won't be a better fit for personal use even if all you use it for is chrome.

But for me, I can go weeks between charges on that Macbook Pro with intermittent use and while it does have fans, I never hear them. It's like a slightly thicker Pixelbook replacement for me.

If google would have came out with a Pixelbook gen 2 that looked exactly like the old model just with minimal bezels and a 12th gen intel, I would have tossed money at that so fast. It remains one of my most used and liked tech purchases. There's just no real replacement that hits the same unique design premium points.

mystes
May 31, 2006



Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway. I'm kind of surprised the pixelbook was so popular to begin with.

I'm happy with my dirt cheap one, and if the android support worked a bit better I would be willing to pay a bit more and get one with a touchscreen and a stylus or a separate chrome tablet so I could also replace my old samsung android tablet, but with chrome os in its curent form I just don't see the point when you're paying a lot more.

I guess if lightness/battery life were the main factors rather than cost, etc. then you could see them as competing with macbooks though.

Ideally I would be willing to pay a lot more for a powerful, light device that could do a good job replacing both a tablet and a laptop., and I guess in another world it's possible to imagine google managing to solve that either in the form of chrome os or in improving android to work better with keyboard/mouse but it doesn't seem like google is really capable of innovating on stuff like that anymore. Apple hasn't been able to make a device that combines a macbook and ipad either.

mystes fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 15, 2022

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013





My Celeron-powered Acer did fine with Android apps, and even ran Linux okay aside from being underpowered for the purpose. Maybe I was just lucky, but some of the complaints I see were not common in my personal experience. There are still rough edges, particularly around Linux support, but I found ChromeOS pretty competent.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003



I never got around to buying another C425 to replace the one that wouldn't hold a charge. I'm about to start traveling a bit and I want a solid CB to use as a daily/travel machine. What's the current thread darling that can do all the basics with ease? Meaning streaming, video calls etc.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


mystes posted:

Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway.
They're pretty capable machines these days especially with the sandboxed Linux (Crostini). And that's assuming you didn't straight up dev mode one.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Chromebooks don't have limitations if they aren't limiting what you do.

I don't really mean that in some philosophical way, I'm being literal. Outside of games, my computers are basically just browser runners. My work computer that's issued by my company of course does a lot more, but my personal computing use cases aren't all that complex.

So, if from a pure computing perspective, chromebooks are equally meeting needs as any other operating system, what's wrong with wanting something premium feeling?

That's kinda the whole thing around chromebooks like the Pixelbook. Devices for people who enjoy using ChromeOS who want a premium feeling device.

That's also why something like the Dragonfly don't quite hit the mark. They are premium devices to be sure, but they are built for the enterprise market so their premium is slanted toward being a fast a durable work device which isn't quite the same as being a premium consumer device.

FBS
Apr 27, 2015

The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.



mystes posted:

Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway. I'm kind of surprised the pixelbook was so popular to begin with.

I'm happy with my dirt cheap one, and if the android support worked a bit better I would be willing to pay a bit more and get one with a touchscreen and a stylus or a separate chrome tablet so I could also replace my old samsung android tablet, but with chrome os in its curent form I just don't see the point when you're paying a lot more.

I guess if lightness/battery life were the main factors rather than cost, etc. then you could see them as competing with macbooks though.

I've had my $750 fanless i5 Acer 513 for about six months now and I'm still extremely pleased with it.

I stuck with Chromebook because between my personal desktop and my work laptop, I only need a personal laptop to do certain things. By the time the battery on my first cheap-ish Chromebook was worn out, my budget had gone up but my laptop needs hadn't changed. I decided the simplicity of ChromeOS was more valuable than the versatility of Windows or MacOS, and then it just came down to hardware for price.

Fanless really is the key, both my Chromebooks have been fanless and I think it's the most underrated feature you can put in any laptop.

I kept my old one, mostly for pulling up PDFs when I'm working in the garage, and the user experience really is night and day. It's like having a 120hz screen on your phone - not strictly neccesary but it would be hard to give it up once you've had it.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011


mystes posted:

Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway. I'm kind of surprised the pixelbook was so popular to begin with.

The M1/M2 MacBook Air is really a better (albeit more expensive) version of the Chromebook. I got a refurbished base model M1 MacBook Air a couple of months ago, and it is way better than the Asus C302 Chromebook I used to own in almost every way.

mystes
May 31, 2006



silence_kit posted:

The M1/M2 MacBook Air is really a better (albeit more expensive) version of the Chromebook. I got a refurbished base model M1 MacBook Air a couple of months ago, and it is way better than the Asus C302 Chromebook I used to own in almost every way.
I definitely think MacBook airs make more sense now if you want something nicer with good battery life and no fan now.

I might pick one up to replace my other laptop once it's possible to run Linux decently on them.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




So this is an interesting development.

https://frame.work/laptop-chromebook-12-gen-intel

I may jump on board here. I was looking for an excuse to support Framework and this appeals to me.

Xiphas
Nov 5, 2004


Well, I was considering getting a Framework laptop with Linux as my Pixelbook replacement since I didn't see anything on the horizon that would quite be the same, but then I get an e-mail that Framework is going to ship a ChromeOS version of their laptop.

Very interested in this, I wonder how they would handle AUE when Framework's gimmick is that you can even replace the mainboard\cpu. Also, I wonder if you still have to jump through a lot of hoops to put Linux on it. It would be nice if they maybe go back to the write protect screw instead of the impossible to find debug cable.

Still worried a bit about the Manifest v3 transition, but with ublock releasing a somewhat capable version for Manifest v3 and this Chrome OS flavored Framework, I'm considering sticking with ChromeOS. We'll see how things work out when 2023 hits and Manifest v2 is sunsetted.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




I'm really curious if they will provide a tool to flash firmware between the ChromeOS version and Linux/Windows. Aside from the keyboard (which can obviously be swapped), the hardware should be the same.

ChromeOS tool out of support or bored with it and then install Linux or Windows on it.

They do have this blurb


quote:

Since the Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition chassis is compatible with Framework Laptop Mainboards, there is always an upgrade path available if you want to move to a different OS or processor in the future.

But I would hope you don't have to use a whole new mainboard to switch OS.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 21, 2022

waffle iron
Jan 16, 2004


I have to assume that Chrome OS for Framework is going to need a different coreboot flashed.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Yeah, further on in the details they seem to really indicate that if you want to run Linux, you use Crostini. Otherwise mainboard swap.

Still though, not a bad value proposition assuming this stuff continues on because the last gen i5 main boards are just a little over $300 or so. So it really seems like you could swap it to a linux/windows mainboard down the line for a few hundred bucks.

I ordered one. The deposit is refundable so not much to lose there. They arenít shipping till December.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


There's unofficial Coreboot UEFI builds for Chrome hardware out there, I'd imagine there would be the same for this without needing a mainboard swap.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Framework has also said that Google has committed to 8 years of updates for the Framework Chomebook. That's pretty drat nice considering that you can keep the thing running and feeling like new that entire time. I would imaging that 12th gen i5 will have plenty of power for years to come and if you want to get crazy with bonus stuff, you can take the thing all the way up to 64gb of ram.

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011



FBS posted:

Fanless really is the key, both my Chromebooks have been fanless and I think it's the most underrated feature you can put in any laptop.

It's definitely one of the things I look for in a Chromebook. I figure the thing is gonna get used while I'm laying in bed or on the couch; I should be able to set it down without blocking any airflow ports or worrying about heat because the chassis should be perfectly capable of absorbing whatever heat the SoC generates. I went with the Kompanio 828 Acer 14 inch specifically because it was passively cooled, had 8GB of ram, and upward firing speakers that wouldn't get muffled when I set it on a soft surface. Handles my usual dozen tabs fine and has the bonus of having ridiculous battery life (I've seen 16 hours).

The CPU cores in mine are pretty old by phone standards, 4x A76, 4x A55. Would be sweet to see even more modern architecture in the ARM space.

NZAmoeba
Feb 14, 2005

It turns out it's MAN!


Hair Elf

Does there exist any good comparison sites for all the various Chromebooks? I want to narrow down my scope to 13" devices with an SD card slot, and would rather not have to go one by one on every single manufacturer website.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007





mystes posted:

Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway. I'm kind of surprised the pixelbook was so popular to begin with.

People say this a lot, but it's really not complicated: you pay more to get more, and that's true for CBs as it is for most things. You can buy a cheap CB, or you can pay more for a higher-end one that has a better display, better peripherals, and more performance. Like, I can't even simplify it beyond that.

And now, most if not all new models run Android and Linux apps, so the "limitations" are only to specific applications or use-cases that don't have some analog in some form that can run on ChromeOS.

Rhyno posted:

I never got around to buying another C425 to replace the one that wouldn't hold a charge. I'm about to start traveling a bit and I want a solid CB to use as a daily/travel machine. What's the current thread darling that can do all the basics with ease? Meaning streaming, video calls etc.

There's no specific recommendation anymore because all CBs can do that stuff and much more. It's all about finding the features you want within your price range, because they're largely functionally the same nowadays.

bull3964 posted:

Chromebooks don't have limitations if they aren't limiting what you do.

I don't really mean that in some philosophical way, I'm being literal. Outside of games, my computers are basically just browser runners. My work computer that's issued by my company of course does a lot more, but my personal computing use cases aren't all that complex.

So, if from a pure computing perspective, chromebooks are equally meeting needs as any other operating system, what's wrong with wanting something premium feeling?

That's kinda the whole thing around chromebooks like the Pixelbook. Devices for people who enjoy using ChromeOS who want a premium feeling device.

Yeah, this is how I see it. As I've always said, CBs do most of the things most people use their computers for. I use a CB daily, and Windows PCs sparingly, only for the occasional game or so. Consequently, I'd prefer to use a nice CB since I spend so much time on it.

FBS posted:

Fanless really is the key, both my Chromebooks have been fanless and I think it's the most underrated feature you can put in any laptop.

I get the reasoning, but I have the opposite preference; after using the fanless HP 13 for so long, I can tell that it throttles due to heat (but doesn't do so if I put it on an active cooling pad.)

bull3964 posted:

So this is an interesting development.

https://frame.work/laptop-chromebook-12-gen-intel

I may jump on board here. I was looking for an excuse to support Framework and this appeals to me.

Xiphas posted:

Well, I was considering getting a Framework laptop with Linux as my Pixelbook replacement since I didn't see anything on the horizon that would quite be the same, but then I get an e-mail that Framework is going to ship a ChromeOS version of their laptop.

I think I'm going in on it as well. I love the Framework concept, but haven't had need of a Windows laptop (especially a non-gaming one) for the reasons above. I would be more than happy to use a Framework CB as my new daily driver, however.

I'm just a little disappointed that: 1) there's no touchscreen, 2) it appears you can only get this in the prebuilt version, and 3) the RAM/storage aren't even configurable. I mean it's easily user-serviceable by design, but it's weird that 3) is a thing due to 2). I'd go with 16 GB of RAM and less storage, and I'll be doubling the RAM due to that, but at that point I'd prefer to just assemble it myself and choose my own components, which I can't due in the CB edition for some reason. :sigh:

Xiphas posted:

Very interested in this, I wonder how they would handle AUE when Framework's gimmick is that you can even replace the mainboard\cpu.

bull3964 posted:

Framework has also said that Google has committed to 8 years of updates for the Framework Chomebook. That's pretty drat nice considering that you can keep the thing running and feeling like new that entire time. I would imaging that 12th gen i5 will have plenty of power for years to come and if you want to get crazy with bonus stuff, you can take the thing all the way up to 64gb of ram.

The update period is tied to the hardware platform, which would be the mainboard. After 8 years, I don't think a mainboard swap is that unreasonable, because everything else should still be usable, that display (in terms of size/resolution) is one I'd be perfectly happy to use in perpetuity, and if anything else needed to be repaired/replaced along the way you'd be able to do that with little fuss.

NZAmoeba posted:

Does there exist any good comparison sites for all the various Chromebooks? I want to narrow down my scope to 13" devices with an SD card slot, and would rather not have to go one by one on every single manufacturer website.

I don't know of an up-to-date comparison chart, but Chrome Unboxed is where I go for all-things ChromeOS, and they usually eventually review all of the popular models. I don't know of an easy way to get your 13", SD slot answer though, unfortunately.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007





mystes posted:

Honestly with the limitations of chromebooks I don't really see the point in getting a high end one anyway. I'm kind of surprised the pixelbook was so popular to begin with.

I'm happy with my dirt cheap one, and if the android support worked a bit better I would be willing to pay a bit more and get one with a touchscreen and a stylus or a separate chrome tablet so I could also replace my old samsung android tablet, but with chrome os in its curent form I just don't see the point when you're paying a lot more.

I guess if lightness/battery life were the main factors rather than cost, etc. then you could see them as competing with macbooks though.

Ideally I would be willing to pay a lot more for a powerful, light device that could do a good job replacing both a tablet and a laptop., and I guess in another world it's possible to imagine google managing to solve that either in the form of chrome os or in improving android to work better with keyboard/mouse but it doesn't seem like google is really capable of innovating on stuff like that anymore. Apple hasn't been able to make a device that combines a macbook and ipad either.

After I made my initial reply to your comment in my previous post I came across this article which reiterates my thoughts (and I updated the OP with it.) The opposition to paying more money for a better device is often nonsense unless it's applied to luxury items, but it's ridiculous when it's used as a double-standard to criticize higher-end CBs but not, say, Macbooks or Windows laptops.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011


Not really. The main benefit Chromebooks have over the M1/M2 MacBook Airs is lower price. If you are going to spend a lot of money on a high end Chromebook, you may as well spend just a little bit more and get a MacBook Air.

I recently replaced my Asus C302 with a refurbished M1 MacBook Air, and the Mac really is a better device in almost every way--it's more responsive, the display, keyboard, trackpad are all way better, the OS has way more software and features, and so on.

Xiphas
Nov 5, 2004


So, I can only speak for myself, but I do not like MacOS. That's why I don't have a MacBook.

I like Linux, but I don't have the time to computer janitor it, so I go with ChromeOS. I really like the concept of having multiple operating systems running in parallel (somewhat) seemlessly. It's not perfect, but the Linux and Android support on ChromeOS have come a long way since 2017. I would do the Parallels thing as well, if they made it available to consumers (I still haven't figured out why they haven't done this).

Since i use ChromeOS exclusively, I don't have a problem spending money on good design and higher specs that the Linux and Android VMs sometimes require, just like Atomizer's article says.

Seriously, try using a Pixelbook. It is my favorite laptop design ever. The design, trackpad, and keyboard are the best I've ever used. The screen is still very good, despite the huge bezels and its age. The design and build quality is on par or better than anything that Apple can put out. I'm still very happy with it after 6 years. My only complaint is that the battery is starting to degrade after 700 or so cycles, but you really can't fault it for that.

waffle iron
Jan 16, 2004


All new Chromebooks have 8 years of updates. I know I plan on using a Chromebook for a long time. So I can either get a $250 semi disposable Chromebook every 2 years. Or I can spend more like $750-1000 for a Chromebook with a much sturdier build quality and better specs.

To me it's a no brainer considering the difference in cost over time is very similar and I can afford the upfront cost.

mystes
May 31, 2006



Atomizer posted:

After I made my initial reply to your comment in my previous post I came across this article which reiterates my thoughts (and I updated the OP with it.) The opposition to paying more money for a better device is often nonsense unless it's applied to luxury items, but it's ridiculous when it's used as a double-standard to criticize higher-end CBs but not, say, Macbooks or Windows laptops.
That article seems a little pointless to me because it is just arguing about the existence of expensive Chromebooks abstractly rather than actually discussing specific reasons why you would want a chromebook with higher specs aside from briefly mentioning that they theoretically exist if you're running windows in a vm or coding in crostini.

My point is that if you don't use crostini or a lot of android apps, chrome os is so lightweight that it's hard to need much ram or a fast cpu. Even a cheap Chromebook will get the job done surprising well so there might not be as much need for better specs compared to another os where you're running a zillion programs simultaneously rather than just a browser.

This isn't a "double standard" it's just ChromeOS being very lightweight so it doesn't require much ram or a fast cpu. (If anything it's a failing of windows that it's completely unusable without better specs even if you're literally just running a web browser.)

If I was considering whether to upgrade my desktop, I would consider whether I need more ram (am I maxing out my current ram ignoring fs buffers) and whether I need more cpu (am I frequently hitting 100% cpu usage). If I wasn't, buying a fancier computer just because of some abstract logic that linux computers deserve to be expensive too would be a bit silly.

So, if you are using crostini heavily, or something then by all means get a Chromebook with better specs. I'm aware that there are people who use chromeos primarily so they can use linux via crostini. However, at a certain point (and this is just my personal opinion that other people would probably disagree with) it doesn't feel like there's that much reason to be using ChromeOS then rather than Linux if you're mostly just using crostini (obviously you need to janitor Linux then but I've you're using crostini heavily enough you're doing that anyway).

mystes fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 27, 2022

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




I think the problem is you are conflating "premium" with "high core spec". Yes, there are overlaps due to margins on components, but the idea is people want a "premium" device.

I would sooner buy an 8gb i3 chromebook with an aluminum unibody, color accurate bright 3:2 screen, biometrics, 1080p webcam, haptic trackpad, and excellent keyboard for $1000 than I would buy some plastic thing with mushy keyboard, 1080p 16:9 250nit screen but packing an i9 with 32gb of ram for $499.

They both DO the same stuff and the cheaper one is more technically capable, but they aren't going to offer the same overall experience.

Granted, there's lots of stuff in the middle and there are a lot of excellent devices in that space if you want something that's put together well enough to last the 8 years. But some people want an XPS or MacBook experience when using ChromeOS and saying just use an XPS or MacBook really isn't solving the problem because that has you using Windows or MacOS.

Now, I'm guilty of that myself since I have an XPS 13 Plus and a MacBook Pro 14, but that kinda proves the point when I'm still searching for a Pixelbook replacement despite having those two.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


mystes posted:

However, at a certain point (and this is just my personal opinion that other people would probably disagree with) it doesn't feel like there's that much reason to be using ChromeOS then rather than Linux if you're mostly just using crostini (obviously you need to janitor Linux then but I've you're using crostini heavily enough you're doing that anyway).
I think the actual Chrome browser experience is better on Chrome OS than on desktop Linux, which it should be given that the entire system is designed around it. So there's a compelling use case for people who use a browser most of the time and occasionally have to drop into a terminal or run a Linux GUI app.

I also strongly disagree with the statement about having to janitor crostini. The main reason people have to janitor Linux is due to kernel/OS upgrades, which are needed for improved hardware support or security updates. Chrome OS takes care of the hardware support/security update aspect, so it doesn't really matter if the software you run via crostini is even a couple years out of date since the stuff people use it for isn't moving very quickly anyways.

mystes
May 31, 2006



ExcessBLarg! posted:

I think the actual Chrome browser experience is better on Chrome OS than on desktop Linux, which it should be given that the entire system is designed around it. So there's a compelling use case for people who use a browser most of the time and occasionally have to drop into a terminal or run a Linux GUI app.

I also strongly disagree with the statement about having to janitor crostini. The main reason people have to janitor Linux is due to kernel/OS upgrades, which are needed for improved hardware support or security updates. Chrome OS takes care of the hardware support/security update aspect, so it doesn't really matter if the software you run via crostini is even a couple years out of date since the stuff people use it for isn't moving very quickly anyways.
You're talking about light/occasional use of crostini. I was talking about why I don't think ChromeOS makes sense once you're primarily doing everything in crostini.

When you're only using crostini lightly, the specs of the chromebook don't really matter which was the actual point I was making.

OTOH, if you're doing software development or something in crostini you're going to spend just as much time janitoring distro and software versions as you would if you were just running Linux, but you could also use containers to solve that which would provide all the advantages you ascribed to crostini.

It seems like the argument people keep making is that, yeah, theoretically you could be doing all this cpu/memory intensive stuff in crostini, therefore Chromebooks need good specs, but then when it comes down to how people actually use it it's always "I occasionally use the terminal to ssh into another computer."

If you're actually using crostini for more intensive stuff feel free to correct me.

mystes fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 27, 2022

SurgicalOntologist
Jun 17, 2004



I do software dev in crostini, including fairly heavy stuff, and I like my premium Chromebooks :shrug:. (Pixelbook until it died, now Asus CX9 i7 16GB)

Like bull3964, it's about build quality as much as specs, I could probably get by just SSHing but I don't have to, so that's nice. Also like Xiphas, I don't like MacOS. I'm sure I'd get used to it, but hey, I like ChromeOS.

Probably a non-ChromeOS Linux laptop would be OK for me, but honestly that sounds like more janitoring than crostini. The fact is, crostini is containers, so I don't have to worry about very much. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like if I had a Linux laptop I'd have to pay more attention to things like what OS I'm running, kernel updates, etc. With crostini, none of that matters. All my software projects have the dependency versions defined by some kind of environment file or another (or docker containers) so its easy to get set up. I have a personal git project with my shell configs, a text file of which apt packages to install, etc. If I ever have a reason to start fresh, in 15-20 minutes I have everything the way Iike it. It's certainly faster than backing up and restoring the container.

As far as how I use it, I mostly use VSCode server version and interact on localhost. I also spend a lot of time in the shell, rarely use GUI programs except VSCode, lots of devops stuff too (e.g. kubectl is probably my most used command). But like anyone tons of time in the browser. I like it.

SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Sep 27, 2022

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


mystes posted:

It seems like the argument people keep making is that, yeah, theoretically you could be doing all this cpu/memory intensive stuff in crostini, therefore Chromebooks need good specs, but then when it comes down to how people actually use it it's always "I occasionally use the terminal to ssh into another computer."
I'm not the illustrative case because I don't do resource-intensive work on a laptop, period. Anything I do that's intensive is done on a cycle server. A $400 Chromebook is the sweet-spot for me because they're capable enough to do anything I need them to do, but infinitely better than a Windows laptop at the same price point (whether actually running Windows, or running something like Lubuntu and praying that it works).

That said, I think the idea that if you reach a certain workload point you must be "janitoring" your system enough that you might as well go with a full-on Linux laptop is not necessarily accurate. There are folks who do work that require lots of CPU/memory resources but otherwise don't need to run the latest software. Crostini is a good system to do data analytics whether Python or R.

Thing is, there's not tons of manufacturers of Linux laptops either. You have a few boutique manufacturers, the Dell XPS Developer Edition, and beyond that you're at the mercy of purchasing a Windows laptop and hope that you can run whatever Linux on it with minimal fuss--and that's really where all the janitoring goes.

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waffle iron
Jan 16, 2004


I buy and own a premium materials Chromebook because I like a premium materials Chromebook and can afford it.

Trying to argue about my personal usecase (or the usecase of every single comer like mystes is) is only going to elicit annoyance.

Edit: I am sick of the people who parachute into this thread thinking it's a "debate whether Chromebooks should exist" thread and not a chill "how do I do this?" and "what Chromebook should I buy?" thread.

waffle iron fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Sep 28, 2022

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