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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

My Tab S3 can't play Vudu smooth streaming or offline so I don't think the issue is exclusive to Chromebooks.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



re: chromebook thread garbage fire

I have a $1000 Thinkpad, I use it for real things like work and tinkering. It's great. Has ~4 hours battery life if I really stretch it out.

I also have a $170 Chromebook with 4GB ram I use for dicking around on the internet. It also has true 10+ hour battery life during normal use. I use it 3x more than my Thinkpad these days. I'm writing this on the chromebook right now.

That said, I'm planning on upgrading my chromebook for two reasons:

1) intel cpu makes it easier to use for docker/crouton/gallium os dev/tinkering stuff
2) usb-c charging, no more relying on some decrepit proprietary charger

Dell just announced their 5000 series which looks pretty hot, has USB-C charging.

I would love an iTerm clone for chromebook, that would solve a lot of problems for me.

Tunga
May 7, 2004



Grimey Drawer

How is Android gaming performance on ChromeOS devices? Is it equivalent to running it on Android or are the framerates worse due to emulation or whatever? I realise this may vary depending on the exact hardware involved.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011
KILL YOURSELF INSTEAD OF POSTING IN THE FEMINIST THREAD silence_kit!


bull3964 posted:

My Tab S3 can't play Vudu smooth streaming or offline so I don't think the issue is exclusive to Chromebooks.

The issue I’m talking about is not A/V nerd whinging about a dropped frame or an image artifact or incorrect black levels or whatever. What I was talking about in the Amazon Prime Video Android app was horrible lagging and stuttering that impedes understanding what the actors on the TV show are saying and what the actors are doing in the scene.

Only when the image quality is cranked down to like 160x120 does the lag and stuttering drop to a low enough rate to be able to understand the plot of a TV show. This is pretty embarrassing for a new consumer electronics product, even a cheap one rushed out the door by Google, in the year 2018. My budget Android cellphone from 2011 and my $70 Amazon tablet from 2014 could play Amazon Prime Video just fine.

silence_kit fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2018 around 01:31

blunt
Jul 7, 2005





Tunga posted:

How is Android gaming performance on ChromeOS devices? Is it equivalent to running it on Android or are the framerates worse due to emulation or whatever? I realise this may vary depending on the exact hardware involved.

It's gonna vary depending on the game and the Chromebook, but for anecdotal refence GTA San Andreas plays perfectly on full-settings (with an xbox 360 controller) on my OG Asus Flip (C100 Rockchip/4gb ram)

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

silence_kit posted:

The issue I’m talking about is not A/V nerd whinging about a dropped frame or an image artifact or incorrect black levels or whatever. What I was talking about in the Amazon Prime Video Android app was horrible lagging and stuttering that impedes understanding what the actors on the TV show are saying and what the actors are doing in the scene.

Only when the image quality is cranked down to like 160x120 does the lag and stuttering drop to a low enough rate to be able to understand the plot of a TV show. This is pretty embarrassing for a new consumer electronics product, even a cheap one rushed out the door by Google, in the year 2018. My budget Android cellphone from 2011 and my $70 Amazon tablet from 2014 could play Amazon Prime Video just fine.

Yet Netflix offline mode works completely fine.

I mean, if it's possible for one 3rd party video provider to do it, you gotta think the issue isn't with the OS.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob



gently caress you, I like Chromebooks and motorcycles.

Papa John Misty posted:

: I have strong opinions on consumer electronics and need to argue over them on the internet

That's basically what the Internet is for: porn and arguing with strangers about stupid poo poo.

Hadlock posted:

re: chromebook thread garbage fire

I have a $1000 Thinkpad, I use it for real things like work and tinkering. It's great. Has ~4 hours battery life if I really stretch it out.

I also have a $170 Chromebook with 4GB ram I use for dicking around on the internet. It also has true 10+ hour battery life during normal use. I use it 3x more than my Thinkpad these days. I'm writing this on the chromebook right now.

That said, I'm planning on upgrading my chromebook for two reasons:

1) intel cpu makes it easier to use for docker/crouton/gallium os dev/tinkering stuff
2) usb-c charging, no more relying on some decrepit proprietary charger

Dell just announced their 5000 series which looks pretty hot, has USB-C charging.

I would love an iTerm clone for chromebook, that would solve a lot of problems for me.

This is totally how I dived into the CB ecosystem. I got one, found that it did nearly everything I needed to do on a computer, and decided to upgrade to nicer hardware - despite one of the main selling points being that you can get a good CB for cheap - because it only makes sense to spend money to get nice stuff that you have to use for long periods of time. That's also why having a good display is important, as well as a good chair (and an ergonomic setup.)

Tunga posted:

How is Android gaming performance on ChromeOS devices? Is it equivalent to running it on Android or are the framerates worse due to emulation or whatever? I realise this may vary depending on the exact hardware involved.

It seems that Android games run more reliably than other random non-gaming apps. I think I've gotten Vainglory (my go-to mobile MOBA) running on every CB I've tried (and for reference, it runs smoothly on SD800+ Android devices, and kinda struggles on the S4 Pro-equipped (kinda like SD600) Nexus 7 2013) and I just recently installed WoT Blitz and Warships Blitz.

Do you have any specific games you'd like me to test, and on any particular type of hardware? (Braswell, Core m, Rockchip, etc.) If I have the combo I can tell you how it works.

silence_kit posted:

The issue I’m talking about is not A/V nerd whinging about a dropped frame or an image artifact or incorrect black levels or whatever. What I was talking about in the Amazon Prime Video Android app was horrible lagging and stuttering that impedes understanding what the actors on the TV show are saying and what the actors are doing in the scene.

Only when the image quality is cranked down to like 160x120 does the lag and stuttering drop to a low enough rate to be able to understand the plot of a TV show. This is pretty embarrassing for a new consumer electronics product, even a cheap one rushed out the door by Google, in the year 2018. My budget Android cellphone from 2011 and my $70 Amazon tablet from 2014 could play Amazon Prime Video just fine.

So because of this:

bull3964 posted:

Yet Netflix offline mode works completely fine.

I mean, if it's possible for one 3rd party video provider to do it, you gotta think the issue isn't with the OS.

I decided to go in and test some similar apps to see if you're talking about a more widespread issue, or if it's just something wrong with the Amazon Video app, because then that would make it an even more specific issue. I was under the impression from your posts that all cached/downloaded/offline video exhibited the same problem.

Here's what I found, and of course I should've done this earlier, but I still think I really don't have to, because this is your use-case, not mine. Anyways, on a Core m7 HP 13:
  • Netflix - Streams fine, plays offline fine.
  • Youtube - Streams fine, plays offline fine.
  • Plex - Streams fine, plays offline fine.
  • Amazon Prime Video - Didn't stream properly; the app hung when trying to stream The Grand Tour, and I didn't even get to trying offline.

Those are the only video streaming + downloading Android apps that I can think of at the moment. It looks like all but one of them work fine, which makes poo poo like this:

silence_kit posted:

This is pretty embarrassing for a new consumer electronics product, even a cheap one rushed out the door by Google, in the year 2018.

...completely idiotic, because as it turns out the thing you've been whining about is a problem with one specific Android app, not an overall defect in the entire class of products. As it stands, you're already being dumb for ranting about a tertiary, at best, problem, and conflating it with every similar piece of hardware.

Remember, the primary function of ChromeOS is to run anything Web-based, and it does that pretty much perfectly. The secondary function is to run Android apps; you should be able to figure out that this is not a primary feature because the feature is still under development, doesn't work perfectly in all cases, and not all devices have access to it. A tertiary function would be something like a sub-feature of something else; think of a 3rd-party extension, a specific key combination in another context, or perhaps video caching/downloading/whatever.

So the fact that you've been ranting about Chromebooks/ChromeOS as a whole is hilarious because the thing you won't stop raging about, turns out, is a problem with a specific Android app by a 3rd-party developer which wasn't even designed to run on ChromeOS in the first place!!! But no, you're right, Android Prime Video doesn't work, so ChromeOS is half-baked.

Similarly, the automobile is half-baked because you ran out of gas one time and all automobiles (obviously not plug-in electric) can run out of gas, and/or your battery died in the Winter so all cars are bad because their batteries can also die.

politicorific
Sep 15, 2007


Has anyone seen or tried to upgrade the ram or hdd (ssd or emmc) on older model chromebooks using a hot air rework station?

Something like this:
http://www.thatsmags.com/shenzhen/p...rom-16-to-128gb

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


politicorific posted:

Has anyone seen or tried to upgrade the ram or hdd (ssd or emmc) on older model chromebooks using a hot air rework station?

Something like this:
http://www.thatsmags.com/shenzhen/p...rom-16-to-128gb

Chromeboxes often have slotted RAM and storage (mSATA or m.2) and while most Chromebooks have soldered RAM, a few have upgradeable storage. Then you have the occasional wacky device like the Acer C710 that has both two DIMM slots and a 2.5" bay (it came with a 320 GB HDD; I gave this CB to my brother and I think he still uses it to this day.)

But no, I've never heard of anyone trying to de-solder and rework a CB (or any other laptop for that matter) to replace the RAM. Seems like more trouble than it's worth, and even if you had a cheap enough CB as a test device to be disposable, then the resulting device would probably not have been worth the effort to upgrade even if the procedure was successful.

politicorific
Sep 15, 2007


Atomizer posted:

But no, I've never heard of anyone trying to de-solder and rework a CB (or any other laptop for that matter) to replace the RAM. Seems like more trouble than it's worth, and even if you had a cheap enough CB as a test device to be disposable, then the resulting device would probably not have been worth the effort to upgrade even if the procedure was successful.

Right, I got my Chromebook a couple years ago for $110 after rebates. I put Gallium on it and would like just a little more storage space and memory. Chromebooks aren't available in many Asian countries, so I'll try to pick another cheap one when I'm back home in the USA and maybe try to source some components and make a youtube video about upgrading this.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011
KILL YOURSELF INSTEAD OF POSTING IN THE FEMINIST THREAD silence_kit!


bull3964 posted:

Yet Netflix offline mode works completely fine.

I mean, if it's possible for one 3rd party video provider to do it, you gotta think the issue isn't with the OS.

Netflix automatically cranks the resolution down to SD or below SD to be able to play the video (given all of your posts in other consumer electronics threads complaining about how gadget X doesn't support HDR this and Dolby that, I think you'd find that an app on a 2018 device only playing video in SD resolution or below pretty unacceptable), which, given that and the Amazon Prime Video issue, is indicative of something being wrong with Android on ChromeOS. At least you can understand what the characters in your Netflix movie or TV show are saying though.

Atomizer posted:

Similarly, the automobile is half-baked because you ran out of gas one time and all automobiles (obviously not plug-in electric) can run out of gas, and/or your battery died in the Winter so all cars are bad because their batteries can also die.

If you want to make a car analogy, this is not it.

A better car analogy would be that you bought a particular Ford SUV because it was rated to tow your boat, but when you try to tow your boat, you find that it really struggles and does not have enough power to tow it. You make a post on a car forum about your finding, and the Car Forum Version of Atomizer replies:

'why do you have the unrealistic expectation that your SUV should be able to tow your boat? the primary function of an automobile is to transport people, and it seems to be doing that well, so I don't see an issue. a secondary function of your SUV is towing, basically what that means is that it is not important and it doesn't matter if it works or not. oh and also, Explore new territory in the rugged yet versatile Ford® Explorer available in five adventurous models--Explorer, XLT, Limited, Platinum and Sport. Updated style and greater choice for the 2018 Ford Explorer means five new wheel options, a Safe and Smart Package, and available SYNC® Connect with 4G modem and Wi-Fi hotspot that connects up to 10 devices. . . .'

silence_kit fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2018 around 14:33

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


silence_kit posted:

If you want to make a car analogy, this is not it.

A better car analogy would be that you bought a particular Ford SUV because it was rated to tow your boat, but when you try to tow your boat, you find that it really struggles and does not have enough power to tow it. You make a post on a car forum about your finding, and the Car Forum Version of Atomizer replies:

'why do you have the unrealistic expectation that your SUV should be able to tow your boat? the primary function of an automobile is to transport people, and it seems to be doing that well, so I don't see an issue. a secondary function of your SUV is towing, basically what that means is that it is not important and it doesn't matter if it works or not. oh and also, Explore new territory in the rugged yet versatile Ford® Explorer available in five adventurous models--Explorer, XLT, Limited, Platinum and Sport. Updated style and greater choice for the 2018 Ford Explorer means five new wheel options, a Safe and Smart Package, and available SYNC® Connect with 4G modem and Wi-Fi hotspot that connects up to 10 devices. . . .'

Oh, drat, this is a good post. I can't wait to see the response.

My guess is that it's something like this:

Yes, it's not good that the specific apps you want to use do not work correctly, however there are specific apps that do not work on every type of device, ChromeOS or not. Does that make all app-running devices half-baked consumer devices? I don't think so.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Preface for silence_kit: while writing this the Chrome Night Light triggered at sundown, but unfortunately it was already on so it turned it off, the opposite of the desired effect. So to answer your question from earlier, it "works," but only by flipping the on/off status regardless of desired orientation and does not check to see where you are in the day/night cycle any time you resume the device from standby. Happy now?

silence_kit posted:

Netflix automatically cranks the resolution down to SD or below SD to be able to play the video (given all of your posts in other consumer electronics threads complaining about how gadget X doesn't support HDR this and Dolby that, I think you'd find that an app on a 2018 device only playing video in SD resolution or below pretty unacceptable), which, given that and the Amazon Prime Video issue, is indicative of something being wrong with Android on ChromeOS. At least you can understand what the characters in your Netflix movie or TV show are saying though.

You have the option to select video quality:



...although I can't actually find anywhere that indicates the resolution it's running at. The higher-res video certainly takes up more space though, but you're going to need to supply evidence for your claim.

silence_kit posted:

(given all of your posts in other consumer electronics threads complaining about how gadget X doesn't support HDR this and Dolby that

Uh, what? You've clearly got me confused with someone else. Show me where I've complained about HDR and Dolby in "other consumer electronics threads."

silence_kit posted:

I think you'd find that an app on a 2018 device only playing video in SD resolution or below pretty unacceptable), which, given that and the Amazon Prime Video issue, is indicative of something being wrong with Android on ChromeOS.

This is also literally and provably false:





That's from the Youtube app on the HP CB 13; the video is (allegedly, originally) UHD, but Youtube apparently knows that the display is only QHD+ so only presents QHD as the maximum option. The other image is from the downloading function; I have no idea if HD is the max resolution or if it's device specific. In any case, HD and QHD are very clearly well above SD resolution, and oh yeah, this is on a 2016 device.

silence_kit posted:

If you want to make a car analogy, this is not it.

A better car analogy would be that you bought a particular Ford SUV because it was rated to tow your boat, but when you try to tow your boat, you find that it really struggles and does not have enough power to tow it. You make a post on a car forum about your finding, and the Car Forum Version of Atomizer replies:

'why do you have the unrealistic expectation that your SUV should be able to tow your boat? the primary function of an automobile is to transport people, and it seems to be doing that well, so I don't see an issue. a secondary function of your SUV is towing, basically what that means is that it is not important and it doesn't matter if it works or not. oh and also, Explore new territory in the rugged yet versatile Ford® Explorer available in five adventurous models--Explorer, XLT, Limited, Platinum and Sport. Updated style and greater choice for the 2018 Ford Explorer means five new wheel options, a Safe and Smart Package, and available SYNC® Connect with 4G modem and Wi-Fi hotspot that connects up to 10 devices. . . .'

Lol no, that's a terrible alternate analogy. First of all, if a vehicle is rated to tow, that includes values for the weight/stress you can put on the vehicle and what the powertrain can handle (in terms of output, cooling, etc.) As long as your total towed weight is within parameters the setup will work, unless you do something dumb like don't take into account the weight of the trailer and end up trying to tow a total weight that exceeds the truck's rated maxima. Obviously, though, as you add mass to a vehicle (whether that's within it or towed behind it) and you don't increase power output, the vehicle is going to progressively have to work harder to move it and will struggle at or beyond its total rated limits, and this is exacerbated when trying to go up a grade (or down one, where the braking system also is designed for a given maximum.) Your vehicle might indeed struggle with a large load, but if it literally can't perform as promised by the manufacturer, that's false advertising and subject to some sort of remedy (repair, monetary damages, etc.) and possibly class action if it's widespread. Ask Takata what happens when your product doesn't operate as promised.

So, uh, yeah, maybe work on your car analogies, because that one was retarded. A vehicle not being able to do what it's specifically advertised as being able to is not the same as a computer not being able to run software it was never claimed to be able to run; those are literally opposite situations. You didn't even address the point of my analogy, which was that you were writing off an entire class of products because one Android app doesn't work. I tested a bunch more. They work fine, including video streaming/caching apps, as well as more demanding games; the only one that didn't work was Amazon Video, which means that app is the problem, not ChromeOS fundamentally.

This is your dumb rear end complaining about CBs as a whole because the goddamn Amazon Video doesn't work properly:

silence_kit posted:

The Android apps struggle with playing video. Some apps are better than others. Amazon Prime Video can't even play a 1/4th SD resolution video without stuttering. The video in Netflix Android App doesn't stutter, but video quality gets cranked down to worse than SD resolution, probably to be able to run without stuttering.

I would say something stronger here: its Android app functionality is terrible. If I had to only run Android apps on my Chromebook, I would have returned the computer because it would have been a pretty useless device. Its Android functionality is worse than any other Android product I've used, including a cheap-o Amazon Fire tablet and a smart phone from 2011. Many Android apps don't even run, and many of the ones that do are riddled with bugs or performance problems.

I don't think that I am really Mr. Picky About Consumer Electronics like other people can be on this forum and in the Inspect Your Gadgets forums (I generally like Windows, and think it works well enough, I use Microsoft Edge as my main browser on my home desktop PC, I don't own a display with a resolution better than 1080p and am happy with my low-cost 43" 1080p TV set+Vizio soundbar+Roku setup, and was happy with my middle-tier Android cell phones before I recently got an iPhone SE), but I feel compelled to whine about my Chromebook in this thread because I think the OP is presenting a sort of warped view of ChromeOS gadgets which is a little misleading to potential buyers.

Chromebooks still are sort of half-baked consumer products and are really only compelling due to their lower prices when compared to Windows laptops and MacBooks.



That's really the whole point here: you're obsessing over specific things that aren't the fault of the original software or hardware and trying to condemn the entire ecosystem. It's especially asinine considering you already admitted to liking your C302 in the first place overall, and then you proceeded to make a Trumpian about-face on your opinion:

silence_kit posted:

I have had the same experience. I'm pretty happy with the computer--it is built pretty well and overall performs and works pretty well for the price, and playing videos from the Web interface works great, but playing videos from the Amazon Prime Video Android app is pretty horrible & stuttery, unless you lower quality to the lowest setting, where it then still stutters but it isn't too distracting. This is a little disappointing because it is nice to be able to watch downloaded videos on airplane flights with the Android apps.

The Android Netflix app works better, and doesn't stutter, but when I play downloaded Netflix videos the video quality gets cranked down a lot due to the program struggling to play the video. Maybe this issue has to do with how Android is emulated on Chromebooks with Intel chips?


Thermopyle posted:

Oh, drat, this is a good post. I can't wait to see the response.

My guess is that it's something like this:

Yes, it's not good that the specific apps you want to use do not work correctly, however there are specific apps that do not work on every type of device, ChromeOS or not. Does that make all app-running devices half-baked consumer devices? I don't think so.

I can tell neither of you are car guys, because as I illustrated above that car analogy is neither "good" nor relevant to my original one.

And my point is that even though one app he wants to use doesn't work correctly, it's the app developer's fault, not the original OS developer or the hardware vendor's fault. As I already demonstrated, other similar apps work fine, making the extension of one app not functioning to the entire device class patently absurd.

And then on top of that your pseudo-my-analogy isn't even remotely what I've been trying to argue. In no way have I been extending the discussion to other "app-running devices;" the whole point is that his "ChromeOS doesn't work because even though I already conceded that it does work, I've now decided that it doesn't because of minor poo poo like the "Alt+Bkspc" combo not passing through CRD or one incompatible app not working on my device" argument is idiotic. Like, what do you actually want here?

Papa John Misty
Dec 28, 2006

I wanna be the very best,
Like no one ever was.
To catch them is my real test,
To train them is my cause.


Holy poo poo

Viper_3000
Apr 26, 2005

I could give a shit about all that.

I've had my c302 for a week and it is a cool and nice device and web apps are cool and everyone needs to just smoke a blunt and calm the hell down about some $400 laptops.

Glottis
May 29, 2002

No. It's necessary.


College Slice

Viper_3000 posted:

I've had my c302 for a week and it is a cool and nice device and web apps are cool and everyone needs to just smoke a blunt and calm the hell down about some $400 laptops.

Same on all accounts. I like this thing.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017

Playoff Pats Poster

Feel free to ignore.


i guess you could say his use of the car analogy was rather.....pedestrian

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


Atomizer posted:

I can tell neither of you are car guys, because as I illustrated above that car analogy is neither "good" nor relevant to my original one.

Except the post I made was agreeing with the post you just made, so....maybe you guys need to take a break from the thread or something? You're talking past each other.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Thermopyle posted:

Except the post I made was agreeing with the post you just made, so....maybe you guys need to take a break from the thread or something? You're talking past each other.

Sorry, I interpreted your post as making fun of my own posting (because it's weird to praise his bad analogy and then write my own reply for me.) Nevertheless I appreciate the support then.

Basically, my standpoint is that while ChromeOS isn't for everybody (that's why I make non-CB recommendations in Hadlock's Laptop Megathread,) it's useful for a lot of people, and that's the whole reason this thread exists.

Then I have to end up defending myself against guys like Silence who cannot differentiate between a first party's product and a 3rd-party developer's software. The idea is that I'm trying to help people out, and then guys come in and threadshit. Look at how often someone thanks me in this or the Laptop thread for my help; I'm spending my own time to assist other goons.

What are we supposed to do at this point? I mean I've stated my goals and I think they're pretty clear. I'm totally OK with having the discussion here because that's relevant to the thread, but I'd appreciate if the discussion was more civil, and I'll try to do my part.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


Atomizer posted:

Sorry, I interpreted your post as making fun of my own posting (because it's weird to praise his bad analogy and then write my own reply for me.)

It's because his analogy wasn't as bad as you're saying it is, but my point was the same as yours.

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

Isn't Amazon in some big tiff with Google over streaming services? Its probably not related, but with all the petty poo poo they have been going back and forth with I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was.

I also get stuttering streaming performance on the Amazon Video app. Netflix and just about everything else works fine. The only exception is the Google Play Movies app which for some reason was not letting me stream Sunday night. I kept getting an error saying "An error has occurred, if this continues try resetting your Chromebook". It has worked fine in the past, so it might have been the Google servers going wonky that night. I could still stream perfectly over the Google Play website though...

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Cheesemaster200 posted:

Isn't Amazon in some big tiff with Google over streaming services? Its probably not related, but with all the petty poo poo they have been going back and forth with I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was.

I also get stuttering streaming performance on the Amazon Video app. Netflix and just about everything else works fine. The only exception is the Google Play Movies app which for some reason was not letting me stream Sunday night. I kept getting an error saying "An error has occurred, if this continues try resetting your Chromebook". It has worked fine in the past, so it might have been the Google servers going wonky that night. I could still stream perfectly over the Google Play website though...

Yeah, I was going to point out before trying to drop the whole thing that Amazon & Google are basically at nerd-war right now, and Amazon certainly has no incentive to make sure their Android apps work on Google's OS. "Oh you want to watch Amazon Prime Video? Buy one of our $50 Fire HD tablets!" This is even more obvious because in my testing pretty much all the other Android stuff works, whereas like I mentioned I couldn't get the Prime Video app to work at all, at least on the HP 13.

This drives home my point that you can't blame the first-party dev when 3rd-party software doesn't work, especially when there's a glaringly suspicious reason. Google pulled its streaming video service (Youtube) from Amazon's hardware, and hmm, what do you know happened next?

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009


I'm looking at using a Chromebit to run our POS at work. It just needs to be able to access our windows server through RDP, use google docs, access email, and chromecast video all at the same time. I had been using an Asus Vivostick running Windows 10 for this and it was able to serve our needs, but just barely. Google docs was really really slow and frustrating to use until it eventually died during an update last week. Would the Chromebit be any better or faster? Also, any idea if it will play nice with a newer touchscreen monitor? I see mostly good reviews for these things, but I haven't seen a lot about people multitasking like we'll need.

I really like these little stick computers since space is an issue for us. I could go back to another Vivostick but figured I'd try out the Chromebit since nearly everything we do is through one google service or another anyway, other than the RDP.

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

So apparently the Android app for Google Play movies is not working on my Pixelbook. It will start, but it won't play movies, giving me an error as previously described. In addition, other Android environment apps are working extremely slowly, specifically Citrix Receiver. This is odd because they previously worked perfectly when I bought the thing 3-4 weeks ago. My best guess is that the latest patch addressed the Intel meltdown issues, but is having compatibility issues with the port of the Android environment. Google support was typically not helpful and kept bouncing me back and forth between Pixelbook support and App support.

Either way I downloaded the Chrome app for Citrix and Google Movies and it works perfectly. I would even say I prefer to the Chrome OS version because it runs natively and call scroll with the arrow keys (a key annoyance of running Android apps on a chromebook). The Chrome OS version also only shows the content you have bought, which is nice. The Android version would make me skim through every season of a TV show to find the episodes I previously purchases. For a show like Top Gear with 22 seasons, this became a headache when I wanted to find something.

It is kind of annoying that Google's own apps are not working on its own laptop, but I think I am used to it after using their hardware and software for so long. I have turned off the Google play / Android environment in the meantime to keep everything simple as I don't really use other Android apps.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012


Cheesemaster200 posted:

So apparently the Android app for Google Play movies is not working on my Pixelbook. It will start, but it won't play movies, giving me an error as previously described. In addition, other Android environment apps are working extremely slowly, specifically Citrix Receiver. This is odd because they previously worked perfectly when I bought the thing 3-4 weeks ago. My best guess is that the latest patch addressed the Intel meltdown issues, but is having compatibility issues with the port of the Android environment. Google support was typically not helpful and kept bouncing me back and forth between Pixelbook support and App support.

Either way I downloaded the Chrome app for Citrix and Google Movies and it works perfectly. I would even say I prefer to the Chrome OS version because it runs natively and call scroll with the arrow keys (a key annoyance of running Android apps on a chromebook). The Chrome OS version also only shows the content you have bought, which is nice. The Android version would make me skim through every season of a TV show to find the episodes I previously purchases. For a show like Top Gear with 22 seasons, this became a headache when I wanted to find something.

It is kind of annoying that Google's own apps are not working on its own laptop, but I think I am used to it after using their hardware and software for so long. I have turned off the Google play / Android environment in the meantime to keep everything simple as I don't really use other Android apps.

Strangely enough, I just tried the Google play movies app on my Samsung Chromebook plus and it works perfectly fine. That's bullshit to spend 3 times the price with worse functionality. Hopefully they get it fixed for you.

Edit: Google was having issues with their services earlier today, so that may explain the issue.

Uncle Lizard fucked around with this message at Feb 1, 2018 around 05:39

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

Uncle Lizard posted:

Strangely enough, I just tried the Google play movies app on my Samsung Chromebook plus and it works perfectly fine. That's bullshit to spend 3 times the price with worse functionality. Hopefully they get it fixed for you.

Edit: Google was having issues with their services earlier today, so that may explain the issue.

Unfortunately it has been doing it for about a week since I first noticed it. Like I said, the incident actually made me go download the Chrome OS version which I like better. However it is annoying that it isn't working to begin with, as you indicated.

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009


Inspector 34 posted:

I'm looking at using a Chromebit to run our POS at work. It just needs to be able to access our windows server through RDP, use google docs, access email, and chromecast video all at the same time. I had been using an Asus Vivostick running Windows 10 for this and it was able to serve our needs, but just barely. Google docs was really really slow and frustrating to use until it eventually died during an update last week. Would the Chromebit be any better or faster? Also, any idea if it will play nice with a newer touchscreen monitor? I see mostly good reviews for these things, but I haven't seen a lot about people multitasking like we'll need.

I really like these little stick computers since space is an issue for us. I could go back to another Vivostick but figured I'd try out the Chromebit since nearly everything we do is through one google service or another anyway, other than the RDP.

I decided to take a chance on the Chromebit and ran over to Fry's to pick one up yesterday. So it has handled everything great once I figured out how to get our email accounts and printers linked to it. It's also really fast compared to the Vivostick so it's much more pleasant to use.

It would honestly be absolutely perfect if only it could run Android apps for the official Microsoft RDP app. I found a different one that works, but it's not as good and they want $10 for it.

Is it possible for there to be an update that allows this thing to run Android apps? Or is that a hardware issue?

His Purple Majesty
Dec 12, 2008


How well do Linux distros run on Chromebook?

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



Poorly to not-at-all if you have an ARM based Chromebook

Gallium OS has a good compatibility matrix for Intel based chromebooks, if that's your jam buy something off this list

https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility

Alternately you can just run Crouton which is basically your preferred flavor of Linux, but just running the chromebook linux kernel instead of XYZ vanilla kernel.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005





His Purple Majesty posted:

How well do Linux distros run on Chromebook?

I boot Kali from an SD card on a arm Chromebook (Asus flip 100) and everything works perfectly, including additional usb WiFi radios.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017

Playoff Pats Poster

Feel free to ignore.


Do those linux distros for the raspberry pi work on the ARM chromebooks at all

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Inspector 34 posted:

I'm looking at using a Chromebit to run our POS at work. It just needs to be able to access our windows server through RDP, use google docs, access email, and chromecast video all at the same time. I had been using an Asus Vivostick running Windows 10 for this and it was able to serve our needs, but just barely. Google docs was really really slow and frustrating to use until it eventually died during an update last week. Would the Chromebit be any better or faster? Also, any idea if it will play nice with a newer touchscreen monitor? I see mostly good reviews for these things, but I haven't seen a lot about people multitasking like we'll need.

I really like these little stick computers since space is an issue for us. I could go back to another Vivostick but figured I'd try out the Chromebit since nearly everything we do is through one google service or another anyway, other than the RDP.

Inspector 34 posted:

I decided to take a chance on the Chromebit and ran over to Fry's to pick one up yesterday. So it has handled everything great once I figured out how to get our email accounts and printers linked to it. It's also really fast compared to the Vivostick so it's much more pleasant to use.

It would honestly be absolutely perfect if only it could run Android apps for the official Microsoft RDP app. I found a different one that works, but it's not as good and they want $10 for it.

Is it possible for there to be an update that allows this thing to run Android apps? Or is that a hardware issue?

Just FYI, the Chromebit is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of performance. It's got a passable ARM CPU and only 2 GB of RAM, so it's nice that it's apparently working out for you but you'll hit a performance wall soon if you try to push it any harder, unfortunately.

They're adding support for Android apps all the time, and the Haier/Hisense CBs with the same hardware have access now IIRC. I think it requires manufacturer support, though, and the Chromebit was pretty much a dead-end product line so I'm not sure if Asus will ever put in the effort to add Android apps to it.

Cheesemaster200 posted:

So apparently the Android app for Google Play movies is not working on my Pixelbook. It will start, but it won't play movies, giving me an error as previously described. In addition, other Android environment apps are working extremely slowly, specifically Citrix Receiver. This is odd because they previously worked perfectly when I bought the thing 3-4 weeks ago. My best guess is that the latest patch addressed the Intel meltdown issues, but is having compatibility issues with the port of the Android environment. Google support was typically not helpful and kept bouncing me back and forth between Pixelbook support and App support.

Either way I downloaded the Chrome app for Citrix and Google Movies and it works perfectly. I would even say I prefer to the Chrome OS version because it runs natively and call scroll with the arrow keys (a key annoyance of running Android apps on a chromebook). The Chrome OS version also only shows the content you have bought, which is nice. The Android version would make me skim through every season of a TV show to find the episodes I previously purchases. For a show like Top Gear with 22 seasons, this became a headache when I wanted to find something.

It is kind of annoying that Google's own apps are not working on its own laptop, but I think I am used to it after using their hardware and software for so long. I have turned off the Google play / Android environment in the meantime to keep everything simple as I don't really use other Android apps.

You can try something out if you have the opportunity: close the browser window and all your tabs to see if the Android apps perform better. I've noticed that having more and more tabs open not only consumes more RAM, but it makes the entire system slower, including running Android apps, even if the tabs aren't doing anything and have even been unloaded by The Great Suspender.

His Purple Majesty posted:

How well do Linux distros run on Chromebook?

They run pretty much as you'd expect them to run on a native Linux system. I used to use Crouton to install Ubuntu on all my CBs but ended up not using it because I was able to do everything I needed in ChromeOS, so I eventually wiped my CBs & disabled Developer mode (to re-enable OS verification and increase security.) This was a while ago, but really the only issues I can recall were occasional graphical-related ones from switching back & forth (basically the same as you'd do to switch terminals) between ChromeOS & Ubuntu. If you were remaining in Ubuntu (or Debian or whatever other distros are currently supported) for most of the time I'd imagine this would hardly be an issue, and I'm sure even more of the bugs have been worked out by now.

Hadlock posted:

Poorly to not-at-all if you have an ARM based Chromebook

Gallium OS has a good compatibility matrix for Intel based chromebooks, if that's your jam buy something off this list

https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility

Alternately you can just run Crouton which is basically your preferred flavor of Linux, but just running the chromebook linux kernel instead of XYZ vanilla kernel.

Neither of these are true. First, Ubuntu ran fine on the Rockchip CBs I tried it on; the issue is whether or not any software you want to install has ARM packages. I don't think, for example, you'd be able to install Steam and use In-Home Streaming on an ARM CB like you could on any Intel-based one, but other than that a lot of general-purpose software is available for ARM Linux.

Second, Crouton is not a Linux distro, it's a set of scripts that installs a distro into a ChromeOS environment. Or, read the developer's own explanation.

Statutory Ape posted:

Do those linux distros for the raspberry pi work on the ARM chromebooks at all

No, you can't just take a RPi distro and get it to work on any other ARM system. Crouton does all the work for you on ChromeOS, though.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012


When Chromebit got brought up, I couldn't help but think about why someone wouldn't just get a Chromebox, unless space was an issue. Are Chromeboxes a viable alternative to this situation? They are so inexpensive, and some have an expandable memory. I was thinking of getting one for every device in my house with an HDMI port. Am I missing something when it comes to Chromeboxes?

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Uncle Lizard posted:

When Chromebit got brought up, I couldn't help but think about why someone wouldn't just get a Chromebox, unless space was an issue. Are Chromeboxes a viable alternative to this situation? They are so inexpensive, and some have an expandable memory. I was thinking of getting one for every device in my house with an HDMI port. Am I missing something when it comes to Chromeboxes?

A Chromebit is literally just a [one-off] out-of-the-way stick computer. It works exactly the same as a Chromebox, or, for that matter, any CB that you just want to hook up to a monitor and use that as a desktop-replacement or whatever. I got one of those Hisense CBs (with, again, literally the same hardware as the Chromebit) to use for exactly that purpose (i.e. as adding media-center functions to a TV) and it was about the same price, ~$90. Chromeboxes are usually far better spec'd and notably upgradeable, but beyond that any old CB could do exactly the same thing.

On the other hand, though, even a cheap ChromeOS device is more expensive than a Chromecast, or even a Roku or FireTV stick/box/whatever. Unless you need a full desktop OS hooked up to literally every display in your house, consider the latter route?

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009


Yeah for me space is an issue, I much prefer having the device strapped to the back of the monitor with a few inches of cable coming off it rather than having to route wires in and out of our lobby desk.

I'm a little disappointed to hear the Chromebit might be a dead product line since they seem to fit my uses perfectly. I hope these little stick computers persist though. I really liked the Vivostick before it went tits up and the Chromebit has been a huge upgrade over that.

Edit: for displays around our store I'm definitely considering Chromecasts. Thus far we've been using a PC to send promos and such out to our 6 TV's, with hdmi-to-ethernet converters to send the signal. If we decide to expand our displays we'll need to either just split the signal and have the same display on multiple monitors, use a combination of the current setup + something new, or just convert to a new system.

I'm partial to Chomecasts but I'm not 100% sure how the displays would work with our current system.

Inspector 34 fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2018 around 07:10

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Work environment? VDI and zero clients.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


Inspector 34 posted:

Yeah for me space is an issue, I much prefer having the device strapped to the back of the monitor with a few inches of cable coming off it rather than having to route wires in and out of our lobby desk.

I'm a little disappointed to hear the Chromebit might be a dead product line since they seem to fit my uses perfectly. I hope these little stick computers persist though. I really liked the Vivostick before it went tits up and the Chromebit has been a huge upgrade over that.

Edit: for displays around our store I'm definitely considering Chromecasts. Thus far we've been using a PC to send promos and such out to our 6 TV's, with hdmi-to-ethernet converters to send the signal. If we decide to expand our displays we'll need to either just split the signal and have the same display on multiple monitors, use a combination of the current setup + something new, or just convert to a new system.

I'm partial to Chomecasts but I'm not 100% sure how the displays would work with our current system.

Yeah the Chromebit was literally a single product that never spawned a new segment and it was released...almost 3 years ago. It's pretty much dead at this point, although Google support is a minimum of 5 years.

I can't help you on the whole kiosk deployment thing, though, at least in terms of a "professional" solution.

MC Hawking
Apr 27, 2004

My power is my mass times the speed of light squared.
Hoes on my tip,
15 bullets in my clip,
My hand rests heavy on my pistol grip.
E=MC^Hawking


I am having a really hard time deciding on getting Flip C320, Sammy Pro, or Sammy Plus. My use case is "I have $400ish to burn on a mobile device for word processing and research for school." I have a totally competent desktop and want to make sure I can stream stuff off that, but I have no problem using Dropbox or Drive to sync up files. I have zero physical experience with ChromeOS, but I've used .Docs to take notes and stuff and it will do the job. I don't really need android apps, but I'd like the option in the event something comes up. I really like the stuff I've seen for stylus use on the Samsungs but the Pro is a good chunk of change on the used market over the Flip. Not sure if I want to wait for a mid life refresh and the subsequent price drop.

I like the default storage boost for the C320 over the Samsung offerings. I've always been an "offline media" guy and favor local storage whenever possible. I recognize and understand that chromebooks are mainly cloud based, but how well does microsd storage integrate into local playback? Tangentally on this note: how easy does cloud printing work for these devices? I have a desktop at work running Windows 7 that's hardlined into a printer and can theoretically connect that, but I'm not sure the methodology of how all that works.

This would be to replace an old ipad air 1 with 1gb ram that keeps kicking stuff out of memory and a $30 bluetooth keyboard that isn't the greatest for high speed touch typing in class. I make a lot of flash cards, and it'd be nice to have the option to do that digitally too, so I'm leaning towards the Pro even though it's more up front. My question is what is the long term viability of these devices? If I buy something with 32gb storage over 64gb storage am I going to be on the hook in two years when chromeOS has bloated out and demands heftier system specs like Android has? What's system fragmentation and slowdown like over time?

Thanks for your input y'all.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

"it's a bot! it's a bot!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob


MC Hawking posted:

I am having a really hard time deciding on getting Flip C320, Sammy Pro, or Sammy Plus. My use case is "I have $400ish to burn on a mobile device for word processing and research for school." I have a totally competent desktop and want to make sure I can stream stuff off that, but I have no problem using Dropbox or Drive to sync up files. I have zero physical experience with ChromeOS, but I've used .Docs to take notes and stuff and it will do the job. I don't really need android apps, but I'd like the option in the event something comes up. I really like the stuff I've seen for stylus use on the Samsungs but the Pro is a good chunk of change on the used market over the Flip. Not sure if I want to wait for a mid life refresh and the subsequent price drop.

I like the default storage boost for the C320 over the Samsung offerings. I've always been an "offline media" guy and favor local storage whenever possible. I recognize and understand that chromebooks are mainly cloud based, but how well does microsd storage integrate into local playback? Tangentally on this note: how easy does cloud printing work for these devices? I have a desktop at work running Windows 7 that's hardlined into a printer and can theoretically connect that, but I'm not sure the methodology of how all that works.

This would be to replace an old ipad air 1 with 1gb ram that keeps kicking stuff out of memory and a $30 bluetooth keyboard that isn't the greatest for high speed touch typing in class. I make a lot of flash cards, and it'd be nice to have the option to do that digitally too, so I'm leaning towards the Pro even though it's more up front. My question is what is the long term viability of these devices? If I buy something with 32gb storage over 64gb storage am I going to be on the hook in two years when chromeOS has bloated out and demands heftier system specs like Android has? What's system fragmentation and slowdown like over time?

Thanks for your input y'all.

The C302 has a standard FHD 16:9 display which is ideal for viewing HD video, whereas the Samsungs (and the Pixelbook) have a better-for-productivity/reading/browsing 3:2 panel. The Samsungs unfortunately seem to have a weird issue with the keys depressing lower than the deck, meaning that this may or may not annoy you depending on your typing style (i.e. how accurate your fingers hit the center vs. the edges of the keycaps.)

You can connect to your desktop variously: Chrome Remote Desktop, or it can host multimedia via Plex, or ChromeOS integrates with Google Drive. Using ChromeOS itself is largely just being able to do everything in Chrome, so you can test that out for yourself by seeing what you can and can't do in the browser on your current system(s), and you could also temporarily run Neverware Cloudready to try out the experience.

Most newish CBs can run Android apps. Your experience may vary, but without rehashing a recent argument, I found that most apps work as expected. As this isn't a mission-critical requirement for you it should be fine. The Samsung Plus is probably sufficient for most people in terms of performance; the Pro and the C302 are both actively being upgraded with more RAM, storage, and faster CPUs, however.

You can connect external storage (e.g. USB flash or HDDs, SD cards, etc.) and read from (or write to) them as on any other OS. As long as you're using common codecs, the built-in media player or the VLC extension or Plex (the latter being my preference) should be able to play most content just fine. I wrote about cloud printing in the OP. You'd basically be able to run the print server on that Win7 desktop and print to the connected printer if you'd like.

Since you mention typing as a priority, I'd suggest leaning towards the C302 as AFAIK it doesn't have any weird keyboard anomaly like the Samsungs do (I've used the latter, but not the former.) Long-term support is officially defined by Google as lasting at least 5 or 6.5 years for newer devices starting on the hardware launch date. Over time, updates don't particularly take up more space, there's no fragmentation to speak of because nearly all contemporary ChromeOS devices aside from a few early ones (e.g. Acer C710) have solid-state storage, and the devices generally get faster with more features. The hardware requirements don't change over time (basically, if it's a PC, it'll run Linux, and ChromeOS is a pretty stripped-down Linux distro.)

The OS installation is pretty small, 2 GB or so IIRC, however that's doubled because it actually uses a dual-partition system where the active partition is the up-to-date one currently in use and then system updates are applied to the secondary, offline partition; when you subsequently reboot the offline partition becomes active and then the 2nd one is updated (either immediately, or when a new update is available.)

As far as storage goes, more is generally going to be better. For reference, a 16 GB device, the Asus Flip C100, has about 10 GB available storage to the user. Keep in mind you don't want to completely fill up an SSD, so get more than you know you'll need. There's also the ability to enable swap space, which may already be active on new ChromeOS devices, and you can generally use 2-6 GB (the latter being the maximum possible the last time I manually fiddled with it.) It's probably worth keeping this active especially on systems with <8 GB of RAM.

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MC Hawking
Apr 27, 2004

My power is my mass times the speed of light squared.
Hoes on my tip,
15 bullets in my clip,
My hand rests heavy on my pistol grip.
E=MC^Hawking


Excellent post, very informative. Pretty much the only non Google suite application I think I'd be using is direct TV now and some kind of .cbr file reader. And if dual boot to GalliumOS is as easy as you say, I can just use that for what mild image manipulation I may need.

MC Hawking fucked around with this message at Feb 8, 2018 around 20:53

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