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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Congrats, Astros. Great team and a great series. Psyched for Verlander and Beltran. Correa and Altuve are great talents and loads of fun. Springer had a hell of a World Series and Bregman's going to be a forgotten honorable mention. Grow up, Yuli, and maybe try and do something to send a message. Correa, you're a dork but congrats.

Congrats, Astros fans. I don't fully get this whole "Houston losers, deserve it" narrative but all sports fans "deserve" a win. Try not to get salty about Yuli getting booed.

Condolences to the Dodgers. Especially whatever sad Dodger has an engagement ring in his pocket.

Intruder, it was nice getting to know you and ribbing you a little. I'm glad you won so I don't have to feel bad about maybe being too mean. Shame you're going to kill yourself now. I'll remember you.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah, people are kind of acting like Verlander sucked yesterday. He threw 6 innings with 2 ER, 3 Hs, 0 BBs, and 9 Ks. That's not exactly a bad outing by any metric unless you're gonna kill him for not going 7. You just can't win without runs.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Inspector_666 posted:

Somebody on RAB pointed this out but why do people think Japanese players have such a herd mentality? Nobody talks about luring latin players like this.

I mean, I think its overused unless a player actively expressed that its something influencing them but I think there's probably a sizable gap between the number of spanish speaking players and staff on any given team vs Japanese. Assuming a player like Ohtani is concerned about being isolated by language and culture it does make a kind of sense to bring in veterans like Ichiro and Darvish who have made the transition and could ease it for him. But just assuming that would be the biggest factor is certainly a little iffy and simplistic.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Inspector_666 posted:

Nah, not dickish, that's pretty much my thinking too, but...


...like STAC says people seem to be putting a ton of weight on it as a signing reason.

Its probably a solid enough recruiting tool, though, as long as you don't lean so hard on it that it gets condescending or ignores other things the FA cares more about.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Well that one hurts a little...

I mean, no. Not surprising. But still a bummer.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Honestly I'm just kind of impressed you made it because I've never been able to successfully emulsify to create a Hollandaise sauce.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I think he's made a terrible mistake not finishing that banana mess well before now. I can only imagine what horrifically disgusting mess that thing has turned into over all these hours.

Unless Intruder is just in the hospital or hanging over the toilet. Which wouldn't surprise me. But he made the deal with the gods.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I mean, my good. For 6 hours that horrific concoction of cooked banana, mustard, creamy hollandaise, and stanky packaged ham has just been breaking down into a congealed, mushy, cold horror.

I never would have been foolish enough to make that bet but if I had I'd just eat the blame for 100 years of Astro failure. Its not worth it.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I mean, I assume just in the fetal position on the bathroom floor screaming in agony... but same train of thought.

And he's only 25% done.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Goodpancakes posted:

I wouldn't bother reheating. I'd just make smaller fresh batches

This seems like good advice. I'm going to have nightmares about what that thing looks, smells, and feels like after 12 hours in a fridge.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I really like Cave even though he seems kind of blocked. But he was probably a massive temptation to be picked by someone to take a chance on as 4th-5th OFer. Although I'm probably influence by him being really good in my Show Dynasty.

Is there like an easy resource to see who is eligible?

edit: Never mind, I found it.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 7, 2017

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Inspector_666 posted:

1) Yes
2) He won't sign up to be BUC
3) Yes please
4) Don't even worry about this until the mid-season. I love Toe but I don't need him to be an everyday infielder for the first half.
5) Ehhhhhhhhhhhh only if he's real cheap.

EDIT: My wishlist mainly involves all of my wonderful baby prospects being protected from the predations of the Rule 5 draft but I also understand the Yankees need to have a functional roster for 2018.

1) Agreed
2) I'd like a better BUC that allowed Sanchez more time at DH but I don't think its necessarily a priority. More of a "keep an eye out" thing.
3) If they can get something useful or valuable for Ellsbury I'm all for it but if the Yankees pick up where they left off last season with Girardi I expect Hicks to get priority over Ellsbury and Frazier to be the guy splitting time with him. And I'm ok with that until Frazier really cements himself. Its tough to say without a manager and knowing how they'd handle it but I'm assuming/hoping there will be organizational continuity on this sort of thing.
4) Agreed. I don't want to rush Torres and Headley and Castro are fine for now. Ideally he'll show up in the second half and we'll see where he fits in for 2019.
5) I'd like to see him return in that utility/clubhouse role but agreed that its not a priority unless he comes cheap/short. I don't want to clog up any of those positions, I want Bird at 1B if he can stay healthy, and I want to keep the DH slot open for Sanchez and Judge to rotate through. So I'd mostly see Frazier as a backup 1B and platoon 3B.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Of course I'd love to get Otani but as some point putting it on a "wishlist" feels like the kid who owns an XBox and a Playstation asking his parents for a Switch. It would be awesome if I get it, but I'm not "affluenza" enough to ask for it.

Of course I also won't act like a World Series Champion with 2 MVP caliber bats as the middle infield of a loaded lineup and 2 Cy Young caliber Aces leading the rotation is somehow a more needy or deserving team.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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My compassion would leave it open to prepare a new batch because I'm not convinced what's left isn't toxic at this stage, but doing half a promise to the gods is just bad juju.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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ihatepants posted:

But this describes every Yankees fan every offseason and trade deadline.

I mainly want him because I think he fills a need for the Yankees in terms of front of the rotation-caliber starter and maybe even DH (which became super obvious in the playoffs). Having a DH spot to rotate and rest players is nice during the regular season but you're gonna be starting all your regulars in the playoffs anyway and it was a huge weakness for the Yankees this year (they went 0 for 28 until Headley got the first hit for a Yanks DH in game 3 of the ALCS).

I mean, yes, he fits a Yankee "need" but if a potential front of the rotation starter who can also hit doesn't fit a role on your team you're either a very good team or a very bad one.

I don't think you worry about your postseason DH in the winter. You have 7 months to figure that out once Spring Training starts and you have to make the playoffs over 162 games before you can worry about 1 of 9 bats in the lineup. There could be a dozen different potential DHs from the current Yankee personnel and without any surprises or trades. Again, of course Otani fits and would be a huge boon but I think it would just be silly for the Yanks to see DH as a big money, locked in necessity this winter.

In general I'm just not a big coveter of huge free agent signings. Maybe that's some "rich guilt" as a Yankee fan. Maybe its a sense of fairness. Maybe its dread over so many Ellsbury type contracts that have come and gone. Maybe its a love of a more organic team. I don't know. But I'm not sure I've actively wished for a big winter acquisition in my time as a Yankee fan. And more often than not I was always the grinch amongst my fans when the move was made.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I was about to make a joke about how I didn't toxx to watch Intruder eat that and get myself sick... but that no feels wildly inappropriate with faces of death videos popping up.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Wasn't the conclusion to this debate last time it went something like "What teams would significantly upgrade at SS with either guy?"

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I don't think anyone would knock that Baez is a talented player with more upside. Where it gets complicated is when you try and find a return value that makes sense for both sides. Schwarber's another good example of that. Lots of teams would happily trade for Schwarber if the Cubs were just trying to unload him. But it will be a lot harder if the Cubs go looking for "fair value" that helps them. Same with Baez. There's tons of teams who I'm sure would love to have him. But what are you looking for in return and what team do you think would give that up?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Intruder posted:

Don't you get a hold even if you leave the game with the bases juiced and a one run lead and the next pitcher gives up the lead

Not if the run is inherited from you, I don't think. You wouldn't get the blown save but you wouldn't get the hold either, I think.

But if you load up the bases, record no outs, and the next guy comes in and bails you out you still get a hold. Which makes the same point.

The only value I ever saw in Holds was when I was in a fantasy league and we made them a stat so that middle relievers had the same value as closers and there was more emphasis on balanced pitching staffs and more options during the season. On some level I imagine that was its intended purpose.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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When I "eye" it I give the slight edge to Altuve. When you factor in "value to team" I definitely think Judge was a more invaluable piece and Houston had more weapons. I expect Altuve to win it and he'll be very deserving but I would really enjoy seeing Judge win if just to see a bunch of people lose their minds. Especially people who just won a World Series because that would just be funny since they clearly came out on top.

I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen any crazy ROY meltdowns. Is Son of Sam Horn still standing or is it all Twitter and Reddit now?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Sydin posted:

They both surpassed 200 IP and Kluber had a 2.25 ERA in the year of the juiced ball which is pretty crazy, but Sale pipped 300 K's for the first time in his career to Kluber's 265 and (I know the writers don't give a gently caress about this) actually had a marginally lower FIP.

It's not a complete robbery like Porcello's was last year, but the fact that it wasn't even close is really weird.

I mean, its not weird the way the voting works. If a bunch of writers all came to the same conclusion of "its close but Kluber's the winner" then you have a landslide even if that wasn't the intent. Only way to avoid that is to collude to throw enough 1st place votes to Sale to make it close. No one else got either a 1st or 2nd place vote so that's as "even" as you can guarantee it without manipulating the votes.

No?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I'm late to the freakout but I would have liked to see Judge get a little more love in the voting but its like I said with the Cy Young, you can't represent a narrow victory unless you manipulate the votes so whatever. Altuve's a plenty deserving MVP and was always the favorite. Judge isn't a one trick pony and that argument is stupid and trolly but its not going to get anywhere. He got plenty of hardware in 2017 for the people who care deeply about that.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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The Pussy Boss posted:

I thought that Judge was a bit better with the bat but Altuve added a lot more value on the basepaths (32 of 38 in stolen base attempts) and plays a pretty good, not great, second base which is more valuable than Judge being an adequate right fielder (source: me watching base ball games) which gives Altuve the edge overall. IMO. Nobody flame me for this opinion please.

Its a totally fair opinion and basically the same one I have and why I slightly favored Altuve in my own my mind. I think some of the bad feelings probably comes that Yankee fans feel Judge is being undervalued defensively and as a general hitter just to reduce him as a one dimensional HR hitter. But like we're not going to get anywhere quoting RF defensive stats so all we can really do is wait a few months and see how Judge's 2018 goes.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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bump_fn posted:

the drums were the best part imho

There's a vague military funeral cadence to them...

Like someone should have grabbed a bugle and played taps and it would have been perfect.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Intruder posted:

I'm done, no more terrible food, that's the important thing

Ah, but the terrible food isn't done with you yet. You're only half way home.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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His somehow looks significantly less gross than yours. I'm guessing the thick slices of fresh ham are part of that. You seemed to be using packaged deli slices, which I can't stand even without all that other stuff.

Like, I don't know if its lighting, cooking skill, the difference of a glass dish vs an old beat up metal pan, or just that he was trying to make something he enjoyed while you were undergoing a punishment... But these two pictures are two completely different reactions for me.



An enthusiastic cook could actually convince me to taste that second one.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Oh, I dont look at that second picture and go "Yummy" or anything. The basic recipe is still gross. But the second poster seemed to use better quality ingredients and maybe a bit more cooking knowledge to make it work better. They barely even look like the same dish.

And there IS something to be said for presentation and just mental/emotional mindset. Intruder's is fully and totally a "punishment" and you couldn't pay me to eat it. The other guy's is something that he could probably convince me to taste if he was really adamant that it was good. And some of that is definitely psychological, appearance, and enthusiasm.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Intruder posted:

For me the worst part of it all was the cooked bananas and he seems to like them so :shrug:

I think that's a big part of it and its a balance thing. He uses that thick ham and way more of it so it looks more like a 50/50 split between ham and banana. Your dish is like ALL banana with some deli slices of ham there to gum up the works.

I have a real consistency/texture issue with food and I really can't eat bananas even though I love the flavor and use it in all my smoothies. But I could see myself getting through a couple of bites of his dish mentally focusing on the ham and its consistency with the banana being more of a like mashed potato side or something.

I mean, I really still don't want to eat it. But that's as good example as any of the difference cooks, ingredient choices, and presentation can make.

For what its worth I've always been told that cooked banana is really tasty and sweet. I've just never tried it because of my consistency/texture issues.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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10 AM is like the middle of the day on my work days. People on some serious college hours acting like its early morning or post drunk time.

He's probably just an rear end in a top hat who woke up early.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I've taken all the stories about what Ohtani wants with the necessary grain of salt but the Cubs just don't seem to match any of them. Maybe he's enamored by the history or they made a really great sell job but that's the one that just makes it impossible for me to get a real sense of where this thing is at.

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Ohtani just wants some free bbq and deep dish before turning them down

Although that makes sense.

Inspector_666 posted:

It seems like a lot of non-New Yorkers don't realize the NYDN is very much a tabloid.

I think a lot of non NYers became aware of DN vs Post with all the Trump stuff but don't realize they're both rags on opposite sides of a yellow journalism war.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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The "no other Japanese player" thing is fair (but I imagine not a unique case, although I haven't checked) but the position and rotation stuff kind of just sounds like the basic job requirement. Like if some team is saying "Sign with us and compete for a rotation spot in spring training" or "Sign with us but we're never letting you hit or field" they probably have an X on them.

Like, the idea I've started to form of the guy is that along with some basic weather and living preferences he just doesn't want to have to deal with a team that expects him to win them a championships in Year 1 or will scrutinize any struggles he has. To which... yeah, run far away from NY because we're assholes who will totally boo you in May if you aren't performing. We suck like that. But if he's seriously considering Chicago it seems like then he either really loves the pizza or got really into 2016 or something. Or they just did a really good job selling themselves over his reservations/preferences. Which if they did, more power to them.

And no, Chicago might not be NY but lets not pretend they're some small market, relaxed fanbase or anything.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Sydin posted:

^^^
Ohtani's agent has already clarified that "smaller market" was just code for "not NYC" hence Chicago/SF/LA being on the list. What it was about NYC that Ohtani didn't care for has not been clarified, the whole "He hates the media circus!" line is just conjecture.

Everything I've seen has said the Cubs made the cut entirely on the strength of a phenomenal and "creative" pitch, whatever that means. I still think the Cubs are a long shot to actually sign him given the obvious west coast bias, but at least they got their foot in the door.

Well that's sort of what I mean. My personal picture of the guy is that he isn't afraid of big markets or anything but that he recognizes the pressure and expectations on him so doesn't really want to be in a position with a top contender or massive media crush where his every move will be scrutinized and if he has a mediocre season he'll be hyper analyzed all season. SF seems ok for that, LA a little less so but still not as bad as NY, but Chicago seems a lot closer to NY in that regard.

That and he seems to want to live in a particular geography/climate.

But like, its all guess work and conjecture and whatever. I'm just saying Chicago doesn't fit the personal bullshit narrative I've worked out in my head. Which is saying nothing but its a cold stove.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Sydin posted:

Several GM's also thought NYC was the clear-cut front runner and that turned out well. It is also incongruent with the belief that Ohtani as much as possible wants to avoid being compared to other Japanese stars. Would be a touch difficult to not get compared to Ichiro if he went to Seattle.

Not that there isn't a very real chance he won't sign there given they were one of the very first teams we heard made the cut, but I'm taking any "GM inside scoop" news with a grain of salt at this point.

Eh, its probably a different basis for comparing to Ichiro since he's primarily going to be judged as a pitcher. Like, the hitting is a thing but if it turns out he sucks as a hitter but is still a good pitcher he'll be fine. If he sucks as a pitcher he'd have to be one hell of a hitter to balance it. So it makes more sense for him to not want to be compared to a Tanaka or Darvish than Ichiro, since he can theoretically meet the expectations of the pitchers but probably won't hit like Ichiro.

At least in my bullshit head narrative.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I believe two different things are being said.

Intruder: On days he pitches they'll let him hit in the DH's slot and be screwed when he gets pulled early.
Inspector: If he's DH'ing on his off days they'll probably just use a different DH on his pitch days.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Paul Zuvella posted:

If a pitcher leaves the mound, but doesnt leave the game (like if he goes to RF), can he go back to pitching again later in the game?

I believe its well within the rules, but it would be really, really dumb. Like, we've all seen some RFer switch to P in a blowout or a player switch from 2B to SS and then back to 2B. So it would be the same thing rules wise.

Just a fireable offense for the pitcher's health.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Huh. Its been years since I played fantasy but it never occurred to me until now that i didn't get NL pitchers hitting stats.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Yeah, I don't think the LOOGY scenario makes any sense for a starter. Like, it might make sense if you're into the pen and you really want to use a LOOGY but not burn your guy who can give you more than 1 out. Its a fielding gamble but its not some huge thing. But I'm trying to imagine the scenario where you don't trust your starting pitcher to face a guy but you still want him pitching to everyone else. If Ohtani can't pitch to lefties in the 2nd or something his team has a problem and if you're deep in the game and ready to pull Ohtani but want a LOOGY and then to give him one more bat or something you probably have a pen problem.

I'll be honest... and given the timing this is going to seem suspiciously like "I never wanted him", which it isn't... but I've always been very skeptical on this "two way" thing. Maybe Ohtani will prove me wrong and be a genuine asset in the lineup and able to manage both but my thought process all along is that he's not going to be this SP/DH hybrid people imagine him to be. Either he's a good enough pitcher that you don't want to risk him hurting himself or doing some damage or wearing himself out hitting or he only DH's 2 or 3 times a week and can never really find a rhythm or get used to major league pitching to be truly effective. I just don't see it working the way major league baseball works.

But again, don't mistake this for "I never wanted him." I totally wanted him and would be fine experimenting and would be very happy with the pitcher. I'm just a skeptic about the "Babe Ruth" stuff.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Dexo posted:

If he's bad at one or the other then teams will find out quickly and adjust.

But the thing is, if he's a bad hitter then its fine because his true value is as an ace. But if he's a bad pitcher he's going to have to be one hell of a hitter to make up for that and not turn him into a bust. And once you figure that way the question then becomes "if he's struggling as a pitcher how long do you let him keep doing the hitting experiment instead of just focusing on fixing his pitching?" And is ok with it when the team decides before the All Star break that he has to give up on DH?

It would be awesome for him to prove me wrong. I'm rooting for that as a baseball fan no matter where he lands. But for me Ohtani's always been "a potential ace pitcher who you kind of have to humor about being a DH to get him to sign and then ease him into making peace with being a pitcher."

Which is still a really potentially valuable player especially if there's even a chance he can be an effective hitter. I just feel like the question isn't what the odds are he can pull it off, but rather how long does the team humor it? Especially if he's hitting well but not meeting your expectations as a pitcher?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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I don't believe that for a second, but yes please.

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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The Stanton thing vaguely reads to me like he wasn't really totally on board, started to come around to the idea of a "quality if life" trade, and then when it got serious and he was getting shown offers from like St Louis and San Fran he said "well gently caress it, if I'm doing this I might as well try and get a ring out of it."

None of which makes me actually think there's a conceivable way the Yankees could pull off an Ellsbury for Stanton trade. That's just silly, Buster. Don't tempt me with your Hot Stove candy.

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