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Ragnar Homsar
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.


Cybernetic Crumb

Jimmy Hats posted:

Eo4 still best EO due entirely to tharsis count

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Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

Hivac posted:

there's a lot of things that eo3 expects you to do that don't line up at all because design????

There are enemies who are level 0 so that they recover from ailments and binds faster, because gently caress you, this is the 6th stratum.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


I still adore the Tharsis count and innkeeper. They were great.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Tharsis Count is the best noble for sure, I love the part where you report some hosed up poo poo is happening and he springs to action.

Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

Today on "I never knew that poo poo": if you sink a merchant ship in EO3, you gotta pay for its repairs.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


The only thing is I really hope they donít put grimoires in EO3U. I just do not like that system at all.

voltcatfish
Jan 14, 2010

Forever pure, forever righteous!


Lipstick Apathy

that game's probably not gonna happen so I think you're good

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Sea Sponge Run posted:

that game's probably not gonna happen so I think you're good

Shhh let us dream

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



OgretailFood posted:

Jesus Christ, Buster Cannon with Overextertion is bonkers. Except when cursed, gently caress you headless armor

Look being overkilled by that amount is also funny.

Also, I'm actually sad because I don't have enough skill points for the skills I want

This makes me sad


This is double the cuteness

I still say Ramus' english voice suits him

RegalStar
Jul 17, 2016


OgretailFood posted:

Jesus Christ, Buster Cannon with Overextertion is bonkers. Except when cursed, gently caress you headless armor

I'm surprised that you didn't just blow it to smithereen in one shot thus avoiding curse damage. My overexertionless Buster Cannon did like 6.5k to it while it was still red. (I did use Dance Oracle though).

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014




It's too powerful...

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Sea Sponge Run posted:

that game's probably not gonna happen so I think you're good

I recall reading there'd be one more Etrian on 3DS and I feel like a remake is more likely than a full sixth game, but maybe not. Or maybe spin-offs count.

nrook
Jun 25, 2009


Itís EO6 with an all-star town cast. Jenetta, Tharsis Count, Cass, Edie... Game would be great even if they forgot the dungeon.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Hell, I don't think Dance Oracle even effects it. Unless I overlooked Buster Cannon doing something other than Bash damage? That would make it even more absurd than I thought.

On a related note, I love how literally every class has the option to do huge gently caress-off damage numbers.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I feel like a hypothetical EOU3 wouldn't have Grimoires since ultimately they're a clumsy attempt at a pseudo multi-classing system. They probably just try to improve the existing multi-classing system instead.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Rangpur posted:

Hell, I don't think Dance Oracle even effects it. Unless I overlooked Buster Cannon doing something other than Bash damage? That would make it even more absurd than I thought.

On a related note, I love how literally every class has the option to do huge gently caress-off damage numbers.

It's bash / fire

MotU
Mar 6, 2007

If you're gonna do it, do it with ~*~Axefaire~*~


whats a good comp for EO5

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Clarste posted:

I feel like a hypothetical EOU3 wouldn't have Grimoires since ultimately they're a clumsy attempt at a pseudo multi-classing system. They probably just try to improve the existing multi-classing system instead.

To be honest, I think the Second Name system is probably the best iteration on multi-classing they've ever done and I'd like to see them stick with it or some iteration of it. It gives a ton of variety and options in party building without opening up nearly the same level of broken interactions that occur when you let characters either slap on another class's skills(multiclassing) or just say gently caress it and let them cherrypick any skill they want(grimoires).

I'd really like to see what kind of Second Names they'd come up with for the EO3 classes.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


The main problem with that is that EO3 is two-pronged based on weapon types for a lot of classes and 5 relies on using a single weapon type on everyone to make sure that it actually works, so you're stuck with a base tier that you can only use half of based on the weapon you're using which pigeonholes you even further into that type if you use it

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Hivac posted:

The main problem with that is that EO3 is two-pronged based on weapon types for a lot of classes and 5 relies on using a single weapon type on everyone to make sure that it actually works, so you're stuck with a base tier that you can only use half of based on the weapon you're using which pigeonholes you even further into that type if you use it

That's not really that big a problem to deal with because such a change would necessitate a massive redesign of classes in general. In fact, it actually suggests second names; baseline Gladiator would have sword/mace access and some generalist skills and the two names would focus on sword or mace respectively. Ditto for pirates and cutlass/gun.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


You'd have to make the baseline skills available to both otherwise you're just taking the original two-pronged tree and slapping a gate on it

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.

When are people doing the No Guard Left Behind quest you get at the beginning of the 4th stratum? It seems, uh... inadvisable to do it as soon as you get it.

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012



max fortitude+max titan killer+overexertion on a therian pug is completely loving disgusting

why am i burning 30 tp on a frigid reap that's doing half of this damage

Ruggington fucked around with this message at Nov 4, 2017 around 06:18

Ragnar Homsar
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.


Cybernetic Crumb

Ruggington posted:

max fortitude+max titan killer+overexertion on a therian pug is completely loving disgusting

why am i burning 30 tp on a frigid reap that's doing half of this damage

Because Frigid Reap doesn't require that your Harbinger be at less than 50% HP for a 50% damage bonus or lose 50% of their current HP on each turn, which can make them a pretty large liability with stuff like the superboss.

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012



do i even want to win a fight if my punch grandma isnt 2 shotting it

Ragnar Homsar
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.


Cybernetic Crumb

Ruggington posted:

do i even want to win a fight if my punch grandma isnt 2 shotting it

If you want to 100% the game, you do! Otherwise, nah.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy


Hivac posted:

You'd have to make the baseline skills available to both otherwise you're just taking the original two-pronged tree and slapping a gate on it

Well, not if you DIDN'T do that, and instead redesigned most/all the skills like in the other two Untold games. You'd still have two options to build your guys into, but that's the entire point of the Second Names system.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


MotU posted:

whats a good comp for EO5

There are a ton of good combinations around.

Dragoon/Pugilist/Masurao
Warlock/Shaman
is all around pretty solid, covers many bases and uses all races (if you don't reclass).
It just needs a bit of item support for its healing in the beginning - Brouni Herbology is pretty useful in that regard.
It is not one of the burst parties you can built but that also means you won't just defeat any boss the same way but have actual fights instead.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


John Lee posted:

Well, not if you DIDN'T do that, and instead redesigned most/all the skills like in the other two Untold games. You'd still have two options to build your guys into, but that's the entire point of the Second Names system.

Every single game that uses a two-weapon system for classes like landsknecht will have the same problem regardless because they're two-directional from the getgo, you don't pick which weapon you use later, you pick which weapon you use right at the start of the game.

5's system is different because you only use one weapon which allows you to meander around in your baseline class and actually use all of your skills instead of just half of them before splitting off into more specialized roles ala the two-directional trees that the older games have.

Sure, you can shove both systems together and vaguely try to make it work, but at that point you're just drawing a line in the sand saying "you can't go further in this specialization until you beat this part of the game" so it basically turns into EO4 but shittier and completely defeats the purpose of having a "base" skillset to begin with

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



It'll be EO4 style subclassing, most probably.

And the portraits will be the ones in EO3.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


they could always have the base skills do different damage/effect based on the weapon you used. Like a skill that debuffs the enemy's def when used with a mace but gives a chance to bind their legs when used with a sword.

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012



is clinch+leading blow pug as much of a massive point sink to get off the ground as it looks like or can I spec into it sometime before level 50 and still get some effectiveness out of it

because right now it seems like max double punch+max status up is the most reliable way to bind specific limbs before he becomes an overexertion bot for the rest of my party

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



MotU posted:

whats a good comp for EO5

I'd say as long as you have 3 or more unique classes just about any comp will work, so just pick whatever looks cool to you.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Clarste posted:

I feel like a hypothetical EOU3 wouldn't have Grimoires since ultimately they're a clumsy attempt at a pseudo multi-classing system. They probably just try to improve the existing multi-classing system instead.

Assuming EO3U happened, I wouldn't be too surprised if subclassing worked more like EO4, where you get a lesser version of your second class's skills. Combined with a rebalancing for some hilariously overperforming and underperforming skills, maybe reworking Ninja and Wildling summons to use EO5's summon row, I could see it working.

Fortuitous Bumble
Jan 5, 2007



I never got past the first boss on EO4, but I'm up to Stratum 3 so far in EO5. So far my main takeaway has been to use tons of items to push through the boss fights when tactics and party composition isn't enough

My party right now is
Barrage Dragoon/One Sword Masurao/Bind Pugilist
Omnimancer/Heal Shaman

I was thinking about swapping out the Masurao for a Chain Fencer so my party would feel more sophisticated but I'm not sure if my other party members have enough skills to support the chain attacks.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Hivac posted:

Every single game that uses a two-weapon system for classes like landsknecht will have the same problem regardless because they're two-directional from the getgo, you don't pick which weapon you use later, you pick which weapon you use right at the start of the game.

5's system is different because you only use one weapon which allows you to meander around in your baseline class and actually use all of your skills instead of just half of them before splitting off into more specialized roles ala the two-directional trees that the older games have.

Sure, you can shove both systems together and vaguely try to make it work, but at that point you're just drawing a line in the sand saying "you can't go further in this specialization until you beat this part of the game" so it basically turns into EO4 but shittier and completely defeats the purpose of having a "base" skillset to begin with

You...you mean like how they drew a line in the sand in EO5 and said "you can't go any further in this specialization until you beat this part of the game"? It doesn't really hurt to have a basic class that can't use all of its skills at once because at the point of the game when you're in a basic class you don't have that many skill points to spread around anyway. My Masurao in EO5 basically just used Mist Slice for the entirety of her pre-promotion phase.

Let's look at the Gladiator. Using the EO5 classes as a template, where pre-second name classes generally get some generic basic attack skills and some low level utility, a pre-promotion gladiator could have access to Berserker Vow and the associated skills and then a couple of basic attack skills: probably Break, Rush, Crushing Blow, and either Freezing Blow or Arm Breaker. Your theoretical promotions(club man and sword man) would get the more advanced attack skills and probably a couple of additional skills to flesh them out.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado

Harrow posted:

Assuming EO3U happened, I wouldn't be too surprised if subclassing worked more like EO4, where you get a lesser version of your second class's skills. Combined with a rebalancing for some hilariously overperforming and underperforming skills, maybe reworking Ninja and Wildling summons to use EO5's summon row, I could see it working.

One of the reasons why I want an EO3U even more now is because of the Summon Row. It's a surprisingly elegant solution to EO3's problems.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


Kanos posted:

You...you mean like how they drew a line in the sand in EO5 and said "you can't go any further in this specialization until you beat this part of the game"? It doesn't really hurt to have a basic class that can't use all of its skills at once because at the point of the game when you're in a basic class you don't have that many skill points to spread around anyway. My Masurao in EO5 basically just used Mist Slice for the entirety of her pre-promotion phase.

Let's look at the Gladiator. Using the EO5 classes as a template, where pre-second name classes generally get some generic basic attack skills and some low level utility, a pre-promotion gladiator could have access to Berserker Vow and the associated skills and then a couple of basic attack skills: probably Break, Rush, Crushing Blow, and either Freezing Blow or Arm Breaker. Your theoretical promotions(club man and sword man) would get the more advanced attack skills and probably a couple of additional skills to flesh them out.

The thing is that if you go with two weapons, the format suffers from inevitably being anemic on one side or the other because either you give the utmost basic skills only in the baseline and save the rest for a specialization, or you only save the last skills for the specialization which leaves it feeling really superficial

I'm not saying the idea is impossible, I'm saying that it's not a very good idea in the context of EO3's scope. EO4 managed to incorporate a split for weapon types by having the low level skills be available to both weapons on classes like Landsknecht, but that's not a thing that exists in 3. You'd have to gut the classes entirely and build them from the ground up again to make the same format work.

5's line drawing isn't the same because choosing a specialization is a lot more defined on its own, the approach you described is essentially taking a mastery tree from the older games and just going "you can't take the Big Skill (Blade Rave, Two Misses, etc) in this tree until you've gotten farther in the game" (I don't think Big Skills are a thing that should exist at all but that's a different argument entirely)

but being overly reductive is a thing that can go on forever and is a pointless argument to have so whatever

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Oh right, don't forget to post your QR code if you've got it hosted anywhere. They seem to be weirdly hard for the system to recognize for god knows what reason (I still can't get any of them to work) but they clearly function for *some* people at least, and I'd rather have them collected than not, so... I'll add them to the second post as time goes on.

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ZZT the Fifth
Dec 5, 2006
I shot the invisible swordsman.



Did the Harbinger on my old team just loving Fatal Reap an Impeding Tengu to death on the first try???

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