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A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


I'm a big fan of both harbinger types, omnimancer and cannon dragoon. Single sword masurao is one I've not used as much as I think it deserves.

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rumble in the bunghole
Feb 25, 2011

This Australia Day I would like to give thanks for a worldwide return to sanity, as demonstrated by President Trump, Brexit, Senators Hanson and Leyonhjelm, One Nation outpolling the Greens, and the the demodding of EM.

Not a good time to be a rabid leftist lol.


Toilet Rascal

Single sword masurao should be pretty good, a lot of their skills are kinda eh but Helm Splitter is pretty cool, and they’d be real survivable since they get heavy armour and that counterattack skill.They have some interesting synergies since they actually have a low accuracy attack so they’ll buddy up with pugilists and Rovers for leg binds, or somebody with Petrify.

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


Also anyone with blind, panic and paralysis(?) those all cancel evasion.

Ragnar Homsar
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.


Cybernetic Crumb

A Magical Lamp posted:

Also anyone with blind, panic and paralysis(?) those all cancel evasion.

Paralysis cancels evasion if an entity fails to act because of paralysis.

Fortuitous Bumble
Jan 5, 2007



Scrap Dragon posted:

So, now that everyone has had some hands-on experience with EOV, are there are any real winners or losers classwise? The only two I'm really sold on are Pugilist and Warlock, what combos well with them?

I've been using overexertion with my pugilist to boost the damage on my masurao (since he already starts with huge damage). Omnimancer warlock can get some spells that trigger binds and ailments, which seems like it should be useful in combination with certain pugilist attacks that follow up on bound/afflicted enemies, but I haven't experimented with it much yet.

The only class I haven't really figured out is my Shaman. Mine does healing that's just good enough that I can get by with additional item use and has some okay-ish buffs, I guess. It feels like doing anything cool with shamans requires tons of skill points though. Right now I'm experimenting with Dance Oracle so I can create elemental weaknesses for my warlock.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


trip report: 5 harbs are up to 9f

please kill me

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.

theshim posted:

trip report: 5 harbs are up to 9f

please kill me
I keep looking at skill descriptions that say "will not activate if another party member activates it first" and thinking "this is designed specifically to gently caress with theshim, isn't it?"

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013


Just beat EOIV earlier today, and I'm already on this sequel bullshit because wow, that was a good game.

Before I start:

1. Am I going to be screwed if I don't take Fencer or Dragoon? They seem like the "tanks", and I leaned really heavily on my Fortress in EOIV, but I don't like the Fencer's aesthetics and I've got a full backline. (Planned Team: Striker/Necromancer Rover/Warlock/Botanist)
2. Does it matter if my team has all the Races?
3. Are there any classes that are really Back Row only? Little worried about filling that second front row slot.

LordHippoman fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2017 around 22:15

Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

You don't need a tank, there's enough alternate methods such as healing, buffs/debuffs, minion shields and just plain damage racing to get you through the game if you play smart.

Likewise you don't need all the races, but each race has a different Gathering specialty and different Union skills, so if you want to be prepared for everything it helps.

As for back-row only... The spellcasters typically hang out there, but it's not that they're less effective if you put them in the front, but when most of their abilities are ranged anyway, why not give them the damage mitigation?

Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

LordHippoman posted:

Just beat EOIV earlier today, and I'm already on this sequel bullshit because wow, that was a good game.

Before I start:

1. Am I going to be screwed if I don't take Fencer or Dragoon? They seem like the "tanks", and I leaned really heavily on my Fortress in EOIV, but I don't like the Fencer's aesthetics and I've got a full backline. (Planned Team: Striker/Necromancer Rover/Warlock/Botanist)
2. Does it matter if my team has all the Races?
3. Are there any classes that are really Back Row only? Little worried about filling that second front row slot.

I had no designated "tank" and I beat the game's superboss.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


LordHippoman posted:

1. Am I going to be screwed if I don't take Fencer or Dragoon? They seem like the "tanks", and I leaned really heavily on my Fortress in EOIV, but I don't like the Fencer's aesthetics and I've got a full backline. (Planned Team: Striker/Necromancer Rover/Warlock/Botanist)
2. Does it matter if my team has all the Races?
3. Are there any classes that are really Back Row only? Little worried about filling that second front row slot.

There are several ways to increase your survivability without taking a tank. A full Healer Botanist can increase your survivability, there are a few interesting defensive buffs and some binds and ailments can go a long way.

There are racial passives that get used in events in the labyrinth. The only ones you need for actual quests are Fishing and Animal Care which multiple races have.
I think you can get by without Earthlains or Brounis (but not without both) if you still want all the different racial passives.
All races also have specific Union skills they can learn in addition to the four every character has. Brounis have strong defensive one, the Celestrians Chain Blast is incredibly strong and the Earthlains Blick Mist very useful. Therian Union skills don'T look that interesting to me.

Your stats now mostly derive from your race. Since you want no tank I would say:
Earthlains in medium or heavy armor can easily sit on the frontline without any worries. So any of the classes they start as is fine.
Therians should only be in the front in heavy armor. Rovers should stay in the back for their own safety.
Brounis are better kept safe in the back but can make due in the front in medium armor if need be. A Shaman can survive there, a Botanist will get in trouble.
And Celestrians should always, always be in the back. (Probably even if you have a tank.)
With a Dragoon it gets a bit more lenient.

So your party has... some problems.
Additionally to your party being paper thin, Rover and Necromancer both want summon slots. They can work in the same party but I am not quite sure if you can make it work while your party is struggling to survive.

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013


Alright, thanks for the advice.

Going with a Striker/Harbinger Rover/Warlock/Botanist main team then. I didn't know about the summons, don't think that was a mechanic in EO4.

I made one character for each class, though, so I'll probably end up training up the other five in their own party at some point.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



There’s an item that basically functions as an XP Share for idle party members on the 3rd floor. Equip it on of your back row characters and everyone warming the bench at the guild will slowly level up too. Note this doesn’t apply to Quest XP.

Speaking as someone who immediately made like 20 characters, the real limitation is affording all that equipment.

Booky
Feb 21, 2013


I just started playing (the demo of) EO5 and at first went:
Fencer/Pugilist
Warlock/Shaman/Rover

before switching over to:
Fencer/Pugilist/Dragoon
Botanist/Warlock (I felt that it was pretty weak on the healing front beforehand, apparently Rovers take a bit to learn heals?).

So, like, are these good party compositions for the main game? Really, I think everyone looks fun and now I'm just making more adventurers of different classes...

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Look, your dragoon can sit in the front no problem.

Even if your backline is full.

I just wanted to say, despite what the description says, dragoons are frontliners rather than backliners.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Fortuitous Bumble posted:

The only class I haven't really figured out is my Shaman. Mine does healing that's just good enough that I can get by with additional item use and has some okay-ish buffs, I guess. It feels like doing anything cool with shamans requires tons of skill points though. Right now I'm experimenting with Dance Oracle so I can create elemental weaknesses for my warlock.

Shamans are extremely point-hungry. My Herald Shaman is basically just a buff-bot, but a Punisher Shaman can do some solid damage with Mana Oracle. Nothin' wrong with a buff bot, though. And a lot of their buffs don't really require maxing out to be useful, which is nice.

LordHippoman posted:

Just beat EOIV earlier today, and I'm already on this sequel bullshit because wow, that was a good game.

Before I start:

1. Am I going to be screwed if I don't take Fencer or Dragoon? They seem like the "tanks", and I leaned really heavily on my Fortress in EOIV, but I don't like the Fencer's aesthetics and I've got a full backline. (Planned Team: Striker/Necromancer Rover/Warlock/Botanist)
2. Does it matter if my team has all the Races?
3. Are there any classes that are really Back Row only? Little worried about filling that second front row slot.

1. Dragoons are front-liners--the game's lying to you there. They can work in the back line but there's really no reason to put them there. They'll be targeted more in the front line (which also helps draw more row-hitting attacks away from your back line), and if you go for the Cannon spec they'll do more damage there, too. That said, you don't strictly need a tank--I haven't used one since the end of the 2nd stratum.
2. Not a ton, no, but it's nice.
3. Honestly, not too sure what your Necromancer is doing up in the front line. Both of the Celestrian classes really work better in the back because of how fragile they are. If you're worried about the tank thing, you could put a Dragoon there--they still have summons, too, in the form of bunkers that draw enemy attacks.

Harrow fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 01:38

Batigh
Dec 21, 2009


Fortuitous Bumble posted:

I've been using overexertion with my pugilist to boost the damage on my masurao (since he already starts with huge damage). Omnimancer warlock can get some spells that trigger binds and ailments, which seems like it should be useful in combination with certain pugilist attacks that follow up on bound/afflicted enemies, but I haven't experimented with it much yet.

The only class I haven't really figured out is my Shaman. Mine does healing that's just good enough that I can get by with additional item use and has some okay-ish buffs, I guess. It feels like doing anything cool with shamans requires tons of skill points though. Right now I'm experimenting with Dance Oracle so I can create elemental weaknesses for my warlock.

Think it was mentioned last thread - while Dance Oracle increases the damage same-element spells deal that turn, it does not count as a 'weakness' for purpose of, say, Altar bonuses. Still a great skill to have, but in my party, I mostly use Mana Oracle, and save the Dance for when more than just my Warlock can take advantage of it (example: Buster Cannon).

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


The cicadas in the 6th stratum are the rudest enemy type I have ever encountered

Blastinus
Feb 28, 2010

Let's see what fate has in store.



Shit.


So just out of curiosity, does Hell Slash chase every single follow-up from One-Two Punch? I'm running a Masurao and Pugilist frontline as it is, and I was pondering how to make it even more so.

Ragnar Homsar
Apr 5, 2011

Komi-san won.


Cybernetic Crumb

Blastinus posted:

So just out of curiosity, does Hell Slash chase every single follow-up from One-Two Punch? I'm running a Masurao and Pugilist frontline as it is, and I was pondering how to make it even more so.

I don't think so.

Harrow posted:

The cicadas in the 6th stratum are the rudest enemy type I have ever encountered

They don't attack on death if you don't kill them with elemental damage.

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


They don't seem to explode from composite damage either. It took me a while to find their gimmick since my omnimancer always had reserve magic with a physical element. All the cicadas are really drat annoying though.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Harrow posted:

The cicadas in the 6th stratum are the rudest enemy type I have ever encountered

Use the bind all union skill or whatever for an easy kill and an easy conditional!

E: An easy and extremely valuable conditional

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013


Harrow posted:

3. Honestly, not too sure what your Necromancer is doing up in the front line.

Whoops, that's my bad, I meant Harbinger, the other Spooky Class. I sucked it up and subbed in a Fencer anyway

Rangpur posted:

Speaking as someone who immediately made like 20 characters, the real limitation is affording all that equipment.

Oof. Now I'm almost tempted to go for the Increased Drop Rate DLC just to keep that up for a 10 character team. (Probably still a bad idea.)

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Harrow posted:

The cicadas in the 6th stratum are the rudest enemy type I have ever encountered

Head bind and max mana shield!

Or head bind and max freeze prayer resistance buff?

Or just use item binders to bind it fully and kill it.

You know what's really annoying?

The 5 imp combo. The imp + manta ray combo.

Now that's just rude.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Ragnar Homsar posted:

They don't attack on death if you don't kill them with elemental damage.

Well gently caress. It's all that stupid Warlock's fault!

Son of a Vondruke!
Aug 3, 2012


rumble in the bunghole posted:

Single sword masurao should be pretty good, a lot of their skills are kinda eh but Helm Splitter is pretty cool, and they’d be real survivable since they get heavy armour and that counterattack skill.They have some interesting synergies since they actually have a low accuracy attack so they’ll buddy up with pugilists and Rovers for leg binds, or somebody with Petrify.

They're really good with a shaman. Focus Prayer gives +40% accuracy. Helm Splitter puts out pretty consistant damage with that buff. Easily my highest damaging character.

Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

As a general tip for enemy behaviour, always be sure to read the codex entry once you've killed that monster once. It usually has a tip on its behaviour and how to get its conditional.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


Helm Splitter is goddamn beautiful. You need to have at least some way of making it more reliable but it's super satisfying to not give a flying gently caress about resistances and just drop a katana into enemy brains, and when it crits

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I also enjoy the flavor of a katana-user who's so skilled that they cut through solid rock without a problem. I need my anime.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


Apparently petal scatter is incredible as well so yeah I'm glad that sword lands is getting its revenge

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


Violently Car posted:

As a general tip for enemy behaviour, always be sure to read the codex entry once you've killed that monster once. It usually has a tip on its behaviour and how to get its conditional.

It also frequently has memes, some of them are decently funny.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


So, what works well with a masurao? I'm not sure if I'd do four swords or one.

I was thinking: Harbringer/masurao/dragoon/shaman or botanist/warlock.
Or swap the harbringer with a pugilist. I guess I'd need the botanist if four swords happens.

They just look so cool.


What skills should I focus on before mastery anyhoo?

Aerofallosov fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 06:37

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Dr. Fetus posted:

It's in the EO2U LP (I covered Story Mode and other stuff.) Also, "the post" is an inaccurate way to put it. Its bullshit was too much for one mere update. But it starts here.

It's interesting to see that somewhat different strategies are possible even with the story party and the very restrictive conditions of the Ur-Devil fight. I used the all stats +5 food and relied on tanking some attacks that you relied on dodging. It's just barely possible to get Bertrand to consistently survive Howling Winds from full health with the right equipment, skills, and grimoires, and Value of Solitude is also just barely survivable by a full party of 5 with enough buffs and debuffs up. Since I was less reliant on blind, I could also have Flavio alternate between Blind Arrow and Venom Curse from a grimoire to keep ailments up nearly 100% of the time for Chloe's benefit. The extra stats were also just enough that Fafnir could kill the Ur-Eyes singlehandedly, so I didn't need to rely on Summer Rain hitting the right targets.

Thuryl fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 09:13

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Aerofallosov posted:

So, what works well with a masurao? I'm not sure if I'd do four swords or one.
...
What skills should I focus on before mastery anyhoo?
Masuraos work pretty well even before specializations unlock. None of their starting skills are particularly fancy, but they get the job done. Swallow Slash will do the highest damage/turn, counting both hits, and the first hit is a priority move. Haze Slash and Air Slash are roughly tied for damage, though the latter is cheaper and a Masurao's only option for a ranged attack. Don't discount the chance to inflict Sleep though, a surprising number of enemies are vulnerable to it and even if they immediately wake up when another party member hits them, they still lose their turn, assuming the Masurao acted before them. Armor Pierce is also pretty efficent when it comes to damage/TP although I'd take a pass unless you want Haze Slash, or plan to use a Fencer in the same party (it's stab damage).

I've been mulling over starting parties in my head, and I think the one that probably runs smoothest from level one (and with the least set-up needed) would be Dragoon/Pugilist/Masurao; Botanist/Warlock

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Aerofallosov posted:

So, what works well with a masurao? I'm not sure if I'd do four swords or one.

I was thinking: Harbringer/masurao/dragoon/shaman or botanist/warlock.
Or swap the harbringer with a pugilist. I guess I'd need the botanist if four swords happens.

They just look so cool.


What skills should I focus on before mastery anyhoo?

Swallow Soar, Armor Pierce, and Haze Slash are great basic skills for Masurao. Armor Pierce is only okay as an attack on its own but at higher levels it’s a significant defense debuff and that’s never not useful.

I like putting a Pugilist with one. If you go single sword, the leg binds will help land guaranteed Helm Splitters, and Overexertion owns for any physical damage dealer.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Blastinus posted:

So just out of curiosity, does Hell Slash chase every single follow-up from One-Two Punch? I'm running a Masurao and Pugilist frontline as it is, and I was pondering how to make it even more so.

The follow-ups from One-Two Punch and Leading Blow count as individual actions and will thus all trigger Hell Slash procs. I can confirm this from personal experience, since my first party had a Blade Dancer and two Barrage Pugilists for this purpose.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Aerofallosov posted:

So, what works well with a masurao? I'm not sure if I'd do four swords or one.

I was thinking: Harbringer/masurao/dragoon/shaman or botanist/warlock.
Or swap the harbringer with a pugilist. I guess I'd need the botanist if four swords happens.

They just look so cool.


What skills should I focus on before mastery anyhoo?

Actually you need binds and ailments more.

The 4 swords dies to basically everything, and the best way to keep them alive is to not have attacks happen at all.

And I know people say divide guard but then your entire team is in trouble.

The helm splitter master is amazing. It really is.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


I'd love to know what the exact formula is for determining if the Council will accept floor maps for the registry, because it seems hilariously forgiving. I just turned in a map of 28F that I'm pretty sure is half-correct at best.

Kanos posted:

The follow-ups from One-Two Punch and Leading Blow count as individual actions and will thus all trigger Hell Slash procs. I can confirm this from personal experience, since my first party had a Blade Dancer and two Barrage Pugilists for this purpose.

Hell Slash is hilarious

One of these days I'll run a Hell Slash party for real. It's not like the party I'm running now is any less cheesy (seriously, if you get lucky enough with ailments/binds, Chain Killer feels like cheating). Things get pretty dicey if I can't land ailments/binds, too, as I found out against Zombie Dragon, where I had to fall back on Frigid Reap and elemental chains and just praying I didn't curse damage myself to death. Let's just say I used a lot of Nectars in that fight.

Harrow fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 14:39

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

For people using Cannon Dragoons in parties without significant lockdown, do you find that they actually have time to do offensive actions? I haven't actually used a party with a real tank yet because I've been all in on disable strats so I'm actually a little unsure about how busy the tank will be with tanking duties.

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food court bailiff
Oct 2, 2007

fast n furious foodstuff


Soiled Meat

Hahaha how the gently caress am I so bad at this I must be missing something in 1F still because I can't turn in the first quest even though I traipsed around in there for like three days straight

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