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Iverron
May 13, 2012

god in a photon

I donít know if the other EO games Iíve played have had one as well but the Memory Conch + making a bunch of bench warmers at the Guild is the best thing ever. I donít have to stress about my load out if I end up not liking it at some point.

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Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Kanos posted:

For people using Cannon Dragoons in parties without significant lockdown, do you find that they actually have time to do offensive actions? I haven't actually used a party with a real tank yet because I've been all in on disable strats so I'm actually a little unsure about how busy the tank will be with tanking duties.

Define significant lockdown.

To answer your question: no.

Keeping your party alive >>>> everything else, and that's basically your tank's one major job.

However, there are certain down periods in every boss fight where you don't need tanking. This also majorly depends on your party.

Buster cannon is a problem because with prep artillery it requires 3 turns to fire. Does a ton of damage, but that's three turns of not tanking.

However, the cannon dragoon has pretty good luck, has access to sleep, and can actually use black mist and the binding items. There is no reason why you can't do the lockdown yourself.

Buster cannon is great.

food court bailiff posted:

Hahaha how the gently caress am I so bad at this I must be missing something in 1F still because I can't turn in the first quest even though I traipsed around in there for like three days straight

What exactly do you mean by first quest? Do you mean mission?

You have to get a root sample, a soil sample, both are marked on your map, and you have to make a map. The game will tell you if the map is suitable or not. If it isn't working, try erasing some of the water you drew and wall it off.

Blademaster_Aio fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 15:16

boho
Oct 4, 2011

on fire and loving it

Is 7th Dragon VFD worth playing? I know it was mentioned in the previous thread but I couldn't find where in the thread I remembered seeing it.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Blademaster_Aio posted:

Define significant lockdown.

To answer your question: no.

Keeping your party alive >>>> everything else, and that's basically your tank's one major job.

However, there are certain down periods in every boss fight where you don't need tanking. This also majorly depends on your party.

Buster cannon is a problem because with prep artillery it requires 3 turns to fire. Does a ton of damage, but that's three turns of not tanking.

However, the cannon dragoon has pretty good luck, has access to sleep, and can actually use black mist and the binding items. There is no reason why you can't do the lockdown yourself.

Buster cannon is great.

Cannon Dragoon/Impact Pugilist/Blade Master/Hawk Rover/Herald Shaman is what I'm eyeing, so some incidental binding and status but nothing focused on disabling like a Smoke Botanist or a Barrage Pugilist.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Kanos posted:

Cannon Dragoon/Impact Pugilist/Blade Master/Hawk Rover/Herald Shaman is what I'm eyeing, so some incidental binding and status but nothing focused on disabling like a Smoke Botanist or a Barrage Pugilist.

Well, you already have 3 damage dealers, so there is really no reason to tack on a fourth always.

However, like I said, the cannon dragoon in their Earthlian spec can actually bind / ail using items, black mist and sleep.

You can also pile physical tanking duty on mirror moon + dragon roar.

Also you have access to head binds.

You can get down time and then use buster cannon.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


food court bailiff posted:

Hahaha how the gently caress am I so bad at this I must be missing something in 1F still because I can't turn in the first quest even though I traipsed around in there for like three days straight

Do you mean the first mission that asks you to map the first floor?

Have you gotten to the point where the game prompts you for the root and soil samples? If not, are you drawing a map as you go, including walls? (Also, the game wants you to put walls where the water is for some reason, not blue tiles, in case you've been doing that.)

Kanos posted:

Cannon Dragoon/Impact Pugilist/Blade Master/Hawk Rover/Herald Shaman is what I'm eyeing, so some incidental binding and status but nothing focused on disabling like a Smoke Botanist or a Barrage Pugilist.

If you want your Cannon Dragoon to spend time doing damage, I think Impact Pugilist might be overkill here. Your Blade Master Masurao and Falcon Rover are going to be great damage-dealers, and going Barrage instead will make it easier to land leg binds so that your Masurao's Helm Splitters and (if you go this route) Rover's Million Arrows attacks are guaranteed to hit. Plus, locking an enemy down with binds, maybe even using Clinch, will definitely buy you plenty of time to Buster Cannon.

Pokeytax
Jun 13, 2005



boho posted:

Is 7th Dragon VFD worth playing? I know it was mentioned in the previous thread but I couldn't find where in the thread I remembered seeing it.

I don't feel like it scratches the Etrian Odyssey itch. The combat is too shallow/unbalanced and dungeon design is terrible. It provides a lot more plot/character content of varying quality, stuff like party/NPC dating, and some fun class designs, so it's not all bad! I just would go in expecting an RPG rather than a crawler.

Hivac
Feb 26, 2011

enemy one body to the proximity Zan attack discard the power slap hit.


Honestly I care less about how the dungeons are explored than the stratified layer of progression type thing that these games take on, which i tend to really enjoy in games for some reason. As an example I couldn't get through Sky FC and SC but I ate up The 3rd in a matter of days. I really liked dark cloud 2 back in the day but my patience for that kind of thing has wavered a bit. If you squint Ys Origin can kind of fall under the same format as well

VFD felt... kinda loose in comparison to the 2020s? It didn't manage to hook me like 2020-II did, that's for sure

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Anyone tried using a Rover in the front row? I'm thinking of doing Hound Rover/Chain Fencer/Necro/Warlock/Shaman but I'm afraid of the lack of healing. I want to do chain killer shenanigans too.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


6th stratum boss defeated. Used the same team I went through most of the rest of the game with: Cannon Dragoon, Barrage Pugilist, Hawk Rover, Omnimancer Warlock, Healer Botanist. Level 99, previously retired at 70.

My strategy was basically to keep all the enemy parts at different HP levels and deliberately let it build up to Full Burst only to knock out one part at the last minute. This usually meant I was eating a ton of attacks on half the turns and zero attacks on the other half, which let me plan around when to attack and when to go on the defensive -- one big advantage of letting it get a Full Burst turn is that you know your attacks won't be parried. I was almost out of TP and restoration items by the end and would have had trouble surviving much longer, but it worked.

Dragoon used guard skills as needed, threw in a Barrage Wall occasionally to keep attack debuffs up, and built up a Buster Cannon whenever a good opportunity presented itself. Rover was surprisingly versatile, with Ice Peck serving as the mainstay for reliable AoE damage and Aerial Talons for more focused damage when I needed to take out a part right away, plus Target Arrow on the main body when I could spare a turn for it (not often). Pugilist mostly provided Overexertion support to the Dragoon and Omnimancer (Overexertion does in fact work on Omnimancer's physical spells, which made them hilariously powerful but also got her killed a lot), and Botanist did her best to keep everyone alive.

The critical point when the momentum of the battle turned in my favour was when I was able to use a Chain Blast union that landed a bunch of binds on all the enemy parts, giving me a couple of free turns to recover and set up attacks. It was a significant risk, since if it didn't land any useful binds I'd just wasted everyone's union gauge (including an Aegis Shield that was ready to go on my Botanist), but it paid off.

Thuryl fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 16:37

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Hivac posted:

VFD felt... kinda loose in comparison to the 2020s? It didn't manage to hook me like 2020-II did, that's for sure

Never played 2020-II, but 2020 had you climbing massive multi-kilometer tall structure made out of train rails twisted by the incredible magnetic forces of an electric dragon. VFD had you go through the same boring Atlanean temple like 3 times in a row. VFD just felt super lazy and unimaginative to me.

food court bailiff
Oct 2, 2007

fast n furious foodstuff


Soiled Meat

I have the root and soil samples already. Forgot to map the walls (d'oh, think I'm lazy from SMT:SJ), but even after drawing them in I got nothing. I still can't open the door to the left of the dungeon entrance but it's outside the red outline so I figured that was okay.

BrightWing
Apr 27, 2012

Yes, he is quite mad.


food court bailiff posted:

I have the root and soil samples already. Forgot to map the walls (d'oh, think I'm lazy from SMT:SJ), but even after drawing them in I got nothing. I still can't open the door to the left of the dungeon entrance but it's outside the red outline so I figured that was okay.

Is there a way you can post a picture of your map? The game is normally very generous about this kind of thing.

food court bailiff
Oct 2, 2007

fast n furious foodstuff


Soiled Meat

BrightWing posted:

Is there a way you can post a picture of your map? The game is normally very generous about this kind of thing.

I'll try to figure it out later, I'm outta the country right now and my Internet is waaaay spotty. I was able to submit the map to get copper but it's apparently not enough to get the quest done.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Wait, really? It's hard to imagine the game awarding one but not the other. This is going to sound super condescending, but have you actually tried turning it in under the 'Report Mission' option at the council?

food court bailiff
Oct 2, 2007

fast n furious foodstuff


Soiled Meat

Rangpur posted:

Wait, really? It's hard to imagine the game awarding one but not the other. This is going to sound super condescending, but have you actually tried turning it in under the 'Report Mission' option at the council?

Yeah, it makes an angry noise and does nothing. It's frustrating as hell. Double checked my Key Items too, definitely have both samples.

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


Check you didn't accidentally wall over a passage or something in the red area.

boho
Oct 4, 2011

on fire and loving it

Did you get the guard to sign off on your map?

ZZT the Fifth
Dec 5, 2006
I shot the invisible swordsman.

food court bailiff posted:

Yeah, it makes an angry noise and does nothing. It's frustrating as hell. Double checked my Key Items too, definitely have both samples.

Did you fill in the water tiles with blue paint? If so, try erasing the paint there.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


Oh dear lord, the forth stratum boss keeps just one shotting people with abilities even though I've followed the strat. I guess I need more levels or better gear. My poor tank, even with reduced stuff, watches as the party dies around her. Maybe I'll see what I can buy and explore the sealed areas.

Is it a good idea to explore the sealed areas in the earlier stratum BEFORE the forth boss?

Aerofallosov fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 19:31

WhalerWren
Oct 9, 2012




EU card! I already hate these bats.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



Aerofallosov posted:

Is it a good idea to explore the sealed areas in the earlier stratum BEFORE the forth boss?
I don't see why not. The enemies are roughly equivalent in terms of stats to the ones on the 4th stratum though they have some nasty gimmicks. There's nothing there that will make or break a boss attempt though--Crystal Dragon's just kind of an rear end in a top hat that way. Getting everyone the best available armor is recommended, even if you have to grind for it.

food court bailiff
Oct 2, 2007

fast n furious foodstuff


Soiled Meat

Ugh. I drew the walls in in town and apparently you need to be in the dungeon for the final quest check to trigger - I stepped inside, got a message about completing the map and having the samples, then stepped back out and could turn it in.

e: and then my 3DS crashed when I closed it, rad

food court bailiff fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2017 around 20:19

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


Rangpur posted:

I don't see why not. The enemies are roughly equivalent in terms of stats to the ones on the 4th stratum though they have some nasty gimmicks. There's nothing there that will make or break a boss attempt though--Crystal Dragon's just kind of an rear end in a top hat that way. Getting everyone the best available armor is recommended, even if you have to grind for it.

Yeah, I got a level or two and he still hits like a truck. I'm gonna finish these sealed areas before I go to fifth.

I finally got the crystal dragon!

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013


Do I need to worry about Race/Class combinations other than the defaults? I'm pretty happy with the way my team's looking in this First Stratum with their default Races, but if late game isn't feasible without "optimal" stuff I'd rather know to change it now then later.

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool

Toilet Rascal

LordHippoman posted:

Do I need to worry about Race/Class combinations other than the defaults? I'm pretty happy with the way my team's looking in this First Stratum with their default Races, but if late game isn't feasible without "optimal" stuff I'd rather know to change it now then later.

The only one Iíd recommend a normal play through is if you want a smoke-focused botanist, reclass a celestrian. Everything else should be fine though unless youíre trying to one-shot the super boss.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

LordHippoman posted:

Do I need to worry about Race/Class combinations other than the defaults? I'm pretty happy with the way my team's looking in this First Stratum with their default Races, but if late game isn't feasible without "optimal" stuff I'd rather know to change it now then later.

You don't need to worry about it. Everyone will do fine in their default classes for the whole game. It's just something extra for if you have a real good plan or you want to experiment.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Or the most important thing, making cool characters

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



You know story wise I feel EO4 sixth stratum is better than EO5 sixth stratum.

See, in EO4's 6th stratum you learn more about the super boss and how some people messed up and stuff. You learn it as you explore.

In EOV, it's mostly empty and the story is just dumped on you. The super boss is a evil space enemy that just randomly showed up to destroy stuff.


This has got nothing to do with gameplay.

The story in EO has always been minimal, but it's more fun to discover the story via exploration rather than the way Arken dumps it on you.

I dunno.

Oh and the other thing is that in terms of creepy stratums, while the 3rd stratum is good, nothing beats the EO4 sixth's presentation. Everything in there is creepy - but that's being unfair, comparing a 3rd stratum to the 6th. The 3rd stratum is great, visuals wise.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

I totally agree, EOV has easily the weakest story in the series.

Fortunately even though I've genuinely liked the stories, they're basically just a bonus to the main exploration gameplay.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Regy Rusty posted:

I totally agree, EOV has easily the weakest story in the series.

Fortunately even though I've genuinely liked the stories, they're basically just a bonus to the main exploration gameplay.

Right, right. The game is a lot of fun to play. I love the classes.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

It's still a bit disappointing. They're at the best when it feels organic, like you're uncovering a mystery deep in the labyrinth.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Regy Rusty posted:

It's still a bit disappointing. They're at the best when it feels organic, like you're uncovering a mystery deep in the labyrinth.

Yeah, that feels best. Exploring how the world inside Yggdrasil became what it is and discovering it via exploration feels really good.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


Why is the bar lady so boring

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Tired Moritz posted:

Why is the bar lady so boring

It's a mystery.

Well, she has a backstory and all, but maybe it would've been more fun if her adventuring buddies were still alive but quit because it got too hard or whatever. Or maybe they saw the zombie dragon and got discouraged. Instead, they're dead which is basically generic EO sob story. I feel sad everytime I read one, actually, generic or boring or not.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


Well, the fifth stratum doesn't play around. I've never gotten game overs quite so much on random trash.

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



Aerofallosov posted:

Well, the fifth stratum doesn't play around. I've never gotten game overs quite so much on random trash.

Just wait till you battle the drat lion FOE. Cheating bastard.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


What determines your chance to flee from battle?

I ask because my team is pretty drat consistent, especially my Harbinger, and I'm thankful for that because some of the enemy formations in the sixth stratum just aren't worth dealing with and I run from them every time. Like I'm pretty sure my Harbinger succeeds at fleeing like 90% of the time, it's awesome.

Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

I don't think the fleeing formula has been datamined. It tends to change pretty much every game. Maybe I'll look into it later.

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Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Jimmy Hats posted:

Just wait till you battle the drat lion FOE. Cheating bastard.

Mana guard + dodge tank + evasion buff + petrify resist on mana guard user = good defense.

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