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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Sometimes I feel like I'm not "really" playing an Etrian Odyssey game if I use strategies that end level-appropriate boss fights in like three turns, but at the same time, the game put Chain Killer right there, so clearly it's intended that I snap postgame bosses in half with it, right?

Really, though, I do like that EO5 seems to have actually hit a decent balance between kill-them-before-they-kill-you strategies and more defensive ones. I tend to skew towards whatever strategy lets me see the highest numbers, but I love that I actually have the option to take it a little slower this time and I'm not just going to be evaporated if I don't kill every boss in three turns.

Harrow fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2017 around 15:54

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theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


Welp, Hippogryph down first try. My idiot brigade has something to do besides the one lovely reap skill.

Went with three Deathbringers, two Deathguards. Auto-Miasma only proccing once is indeed infuriating bullshit. Thankfully, Frigid/Ephemeral/Fatal Reap don't need Miasma active.

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



Blademaster_Aio posted:

Mana guard + dodge tank + evasion buff + petrify resist on mana guard user = good defense.

I had exorcism prayer, bolt prayer, and petrify accessories equipped and he still petrified my enetire party at the same time when he had about 10% health left. He cheats!

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Jimmy Hats posted:

I had exorcism prayer, bolt prayer, and petrify accessories equipped and he still petrified my enetire party at the same time when he had about 10% health left. He cheats!

That's... impossible.

Petrify accessories should grant you immunity.

Unless... they don't?

No, they definitely do, even 200% affliction chances cannot poison the person wearing poison resist accessories.

So accessories offer immunity.

He can't cheat so blatantly.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


I'm happy to have my ridiculous Chain Killer/Leading Blow party because I don't think I've ever seen that FOE attack more than once per fight. Wilting Miasma + Black Mist + Clinch = total lockdown, followed by total beatdown.

Also I'm pretty sure he only has a base chance of 40% to petrify so I have no idea how you got so unlucky

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



Blademaster_Aio posted:

That's... impossible.

Petrify accessories should grant you immunity.

Unless... they don't?

No, they definitely do, even 200% affliction chances cannot poison the person wearing poison resist accessories.

So accessories offer immunity.

He can't cheat so blatantly.

I just double checked and had cat necklaces equipped lmao. My new assertion is the boss swapped my accessories out.

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



I'm certainly not stupid nd confused paralysis and petrify

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


So I'm exploring the area in the 2nd stratum past the locked door and I fought some monsters that jumped out of a treasure chest. When I won I got an old book and the game gave me a message like "you wonder if the monsters were the same ones from earlier." I don't remember any monsters jumping out of treasure chests earlier. Did I miss an event?

Kemix
Dec 1, 2013
I AM INSUFFERABLE

MY POSTS CONTRIBUTE NOTHING

ALL CAPS WHITE NOISE


please shun this worthless poster


So, in EO5, what痴 generally the best way to set up a party to farm chop/take/mine points with?

Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

So I'm exploring the area in the 2nd stratum past the locked door and I fought some monsters that jumped out of a treasure chest. When I won I got an old book and the game gave me a message like "you wonder if the monsters were the same ones from earlier." I don't remember any monsters jumping out of treasure chests earlier. Did I miss an event?

Yeah, that confused me too... If you did, so did I.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Joke's on them.


Gah, I'm patterning all my member's names after mythological objects (weapons, herbs, etc.), and I want my Harbinger to take after the Cthulhu mythos, but I can't think of any particular objects that evoke the idea of "death", "miasma", "ailment", or "doom" besides the Necronomicon. gently caress it, Azifa it is.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Kemix posted:

So, in EO5, what痴 generally the best way to set up a party to farm chop/take/mine points with?

Just slap the skills on your party and gather as you go. The one point nature of gathering skills and nodes being one and done per day generally means it's not worth putting together a farming party.

I guess if you're really desperate you can farm specific node types with five characters specced for a single gathering type but I don't think that's worth the effort.

Kemix
Dec 1, 2013
I AM INSUFFERABLE

MY POSTS CONTRIBUTE NOTHING

ALL CAPS WHITE NOISE


please shun this worthless poster


Pollyanna posted:

Gah, I'm patterning all my member's names after mythological objects (weapons, herbs, etc.), and I want my Harbinger to take after the Cthulhu mythos, but I can't think of any particular objects that evoke the idea of "death", "miasma", "ailment", or "doom" besides the Necronomicon. gently caress it, Azifa it is.

I personally used names from another forum I知 on, characters that (kinda) match the classes that I知 trying to make them into. I知 past the first strata so far at the very least, though the Amalgolem was a bit of a pain to fight. Had to mostly rely on regular attacks at the end in a last ditch attempt to kill the bastard , but by god I did it. I値l have to go for the conditional when I am a bit stronger. Also 21$ for DLC is certainly a steal compared to...other games...*coughcough*

Strange Quark
Oct 15, 2012



Kanos posted:

Just slap the skills on your party and gather as you go. The one point nature of gathering skills and nodes being one and done per day generally means it's not worth putting together a farming party.

I guess if you're really desperate you can farm specific node types with five characters specced for a single gathering type but I don't think that's worth the effort.

I got annoyed with the teleports in the sixth stratum enough that I just made a gathering party to get through it.

BrightWing
Apr 27, 2012

Yes, he is quite mad.


I'm tempted to swap my shamans title to Herald just for the status resist buff. Might swap rover to hawk if I do, make the shamans handle all the heals

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



Kemix posted:

I personally used names from another forum I知 on, characters that (kinda) match the classes that I知 trying to make them into. I知 past the first strata so far at the very least, though the Amalgolem was a bit of a pain to fight. Had to mostly rely on regular attacks at the end in a last ditch attempt to kill the bastard , but by god I did it. I値l have to go for the conditional when I am a bit stronger. Also 21$ for DLC is certainly a steal compared to...other games...*coughcough*

The only good DLC is protector dlc suck it gunner fandweebs.

Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

The sixth stratum is much easier when you realise each teleporter colour goes a fixed distance, and it's laid out in one long strip, rather than floors on top of each other. Still confusing though.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


AAAH. ANGRY BIRBS. ANGRY BIRBS!

I am enjoying the fifth stratum so far, though the music is really, really quiet.

I keep contemplating getting the DLC portraits, but I'm not sure.

What is a chain killer party anyway?

A Magical Lamp
Aug 16, 2010


TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

So I'm exploring the area in the 2nd stratum past the locked door and I fought some monsters that jumped out of a treasure chest. When I won I got an old book and the game gave me a message like "you wonder if the monsters were the same ones from earlier." I don't remember any monsters jumping out of treasure chests earlier. Did I miss an event?

Those monsters were using the same model as a previous 2nd stratum enemy. I assume that's what it's getting at.

Jimmy Hats
May 8, 2012

yeah that was pretty good



Aerofallosov posted:

What is a chain killer party anyway?

I'm sure there's a more correct answer but honestly with Union skills it can be whatever you want it to be. Celestrians have a union skill that makes it so that elemental damage causes status effects, while therians have one that makes it so that physical damage causes binds. Pop either one of these and attack with the entire party and chain killer will go off like wild.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Aerofallosov posted:

What is a chain killer party anyway?

Chain Killer is a Chain Fencer skill that chases ailments and binds. If you use Chain Killer and someone else in your party lands an ailment or bind, the Fencer follows up with an attack. What makes it so special? Two things:

1. It does almost quadruple the damage that elemental chains do, topping out at 800% STR damage per hit at level 10.

2. It has no limit on the amount of times it can activate, unlike elemental chains.

Combine it with a Pugilist to use Overexertion and you can put out truly absurd amounts of damage in a single turn. Debuff the enemy with Wilting Miasma and set up your buffs on turn one, then use Black Mist and let loose with ailments and binds on turn 2 and watch the fireworks. Clinch is great to trigger it with because of the high chance of success, as are ailment-causing items (especially because they're all multi-target, so if you use Chain All as well you can demolish multi-target bosses). With Chain Double and Chain Boost kicking in, you shouldn't be surprised to see over 7-10k damage per hit with endgame levels/gear, sometimes hitting twice on a single activation because Chain Double activates.

The downside is that if you whiff all your disables, you're kinda boned. You can fall back on elemental chains but a really strong Chain Killer party isn't quite set up as well for elemental chains (though you can do okay as long as you have a Shaman).

Harrow fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2017 around 23:16

Batigh
Dec 21, 2009


Kanos posted:

Just slap the skills on your party and gather as you go. The one point nature of gathering skills and nodes being one and done per day generally means it's not worth putting together a farming party.

I guess if you're really desperate you can farm specific node types with five characters specced for a single gathering type but I don't think that's worth the effort.

I made an post up-thread about dog rovers being used in a gathering party with multiple instances of maxed Ground Patrol. It really works, if you're hard up for cash and don't feel like fighting anything.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.


I see what they mean about the lion FOEs now.

The fifth stratum is definitely a step up on the hateometer for adventurers.

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion

Why the gently caress do Bind Snakes have 5k+ HP

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Okay, I never realised this till another poster on gamefaqs pointed this out, but in the 6th stratum the teleporters all work the same. That is, they all send you forward a set number of spaces based on color. This includes the ones that take you to a new floor. There are no 'new floors' in that stratum, it's just one huge, long bridge. The floor teleporters aren't actually taking to a 'new floor' they're just teleporting you like all the other teleporters in the stratum. So the north teleporters take you north (new floor) and the south teleporters take you south (old floors).

It all seems so obvious now.

I mean, I knew that the teleporters that were at the edge of the map (or those that would send you more spaces forward than you had on the map) took you across floors, but it all seems so simple now?

Strange Quark
Oct 15, 2012



Blademaster_Aio posted:

Okay, I never realised this till another poster on gamefaqs pointed this out, but in the 6th stratum the teleporters all work the same. That is, they all send you forward a set number of spaces based on color. This includes the ones that take you to a new floor. There are no 'new floors' in that stratum, it's just one huge, long bridge. The floor teleporters aren't actually taking to a 'new floor' they're just teleporting you like all the other teleporters in the stratum. So the north teleporters take you north (new floor) and the south teleporters take you south (old floors).

It all seems so obvious now.

I mean, I knew that the teleporters that were at the edge of the map (or those that would send you more spaces forward than you had on the map) took you across floors, but it all seems so simple now?

Well also, another guy pointed this out a few posts above yours.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Strange Quark posted:

Well also, another guy pointed this out a few posts above yours.

Unfortunately it just didn't register till someone actually said it's a literal bridge and the north stuff goes north and south stuff goes south

I already knew stuff goes a fixed distance but the whole these are not floors wasn't registering.

I even read the EOV lp.

Hmm.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



I more or less understand how to reach the Crystal Dragon now--I haven't done it perfectly yet because I get bored and impatient, but I get the basic idea. In my one attempt to fight him so far, I drat near flattened him with an Impact Pugilist and Sword God Masurao. They seem uniquely suited to taking him apart. It's quite likely I would have won (he was at <5% health) had I actually brought more than like 3-4 Nectar/Soma/Amritas. So it goes. The pattern's super weird though, I rarely see a boss use the same move twice in a row yet he busted out that all-party sleep/head bind roar back to back. Is it health related?

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Rangpur posted:

I more or less understand how to reach the Crystal Dragon now--I haven't done it perfectly yet because I get bored and impatient, but I get the basic idea. In my one attempt to fight him so far, I drat near flattened him with an Impact Pugilist and Sword God Masurao. They seem uniquely suited to taking him apart. It's quite likely I would have won (he was at <5% health) had I actually brought more than like 3-4 Nectar/Soma/Amritas. So it goes. The pattern's super weird though, I rarely see a boss use the same move twice in a row yet he busted out that all-party sleep/head bind roar back to back. Is it health related?

See, this is why you equip everyone with bat earrings so you can use his lamenting to wail on him more.

And to answer you he spammed it thrice in a row when I fought it.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008



The other big question is how buffs influence the damage of Clear Breath. Is it multiplied per buff per character? Because it tended to kill the damage dealers, which is where multiple buffs usually accumulate.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Rangpur posted:

The other big question is how buffs influence the damage of Clear Breath. Is it multiplied per buff per character? Because it tended to kill the damage dealers, which is where multiple buffs usually accumulate.

Twice for each buff, so if you have 3 then it actually does 6x the damage.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

It would've been so cool if I'd realized that thing about how the 6th stratum works. But alas...

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Joke's on them.


Is this like the other games where it's possible to put together a completely ineffectual party, or do you have a good amount of leeway in terms of what classes you like to use? I went with Advanced mode, and it seems to be as difficult as usual, so I was worried about composing myself into a corner.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



If the shim can make 5 harbingers work then I'm sure you'll be fine.

There are some party compositions that are better at dealing with certain enemies than others, but you can make almost anything work.

Are your front liners Therians, Earthlains or Brouni?

Then you should be fine.

Celestrians don't belong on the front lines.

Remember that items exist and can be used to fill in the holes in your party.

Violently Car
Dec 2, 2007

You are now entering completely darkness

The main thing you don't want to do is have a party that wants to use bunkers and summons and wraiths all at the same thing.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Joke's on them.


Sounds about right. I went Masurao-Harbinger/Dragoon-Botanist-Warlock, but I'm not very impressed by the Masurao by level 5~6. I've been considering replacing her with a Fencer, but I dunno yet if it'll be better to stick with the Masurao in the long run.

Dragoon's mostly using Line Guard all the time, but since I have the space, I wonder if I should start building towards the bunker as well...

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Bunkers are very useful early game when most attacks are single target attacks.

As for the masarao, aim for armor pierce - the level 10 defense debuff is very nice, mist slice, which has a high base chance of sleep. These are decent options to aim for early game.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

This knight was born to be THE BEST! Just like all the billions like him!


Pollyanna posted:

Is this like the other games where it's possible to put together a completely ineffectual party, or do you have a good amount of leeway in terms of what classes you like to use? I went with Advanced mode, and it seems to be as difficult as usual, so I was worried about composing myself into a corner.

I think both this and EO4 are pretty good about lacking trap options. I'm pretty sure you could put together any combination of five classes and do fine, though pet classes have the potential to trip over each other. I don't really like to double up on any of them, but I'd say Dragoon and Rover can get along decently (the downside being that bunkers will draw row-hitting attacks into your summon row, which hits the Rover pet, too). Necromancer really wants to monopolize the summon row if possible.

But really, that's just "these classes won't shine as brightly as they could" and not "these classes become unusable" so it's not all that punishing, party composition-wise.

Pollyanna posted:

Sounds about right. I went Masurao-Harbinger/Dragoon-Botanist-Warlock, but I'm not very impressed by the Masurao by level 5~6. I've been considering replacing her with a Fencer, but I dunno yet if it'll be better to stick with the Masurao in the long run.

Dragoon's mostly using Line Guard all the time, but since I have the space, I wonder if I should start building towards the bunker as well...

Masurao is pretty strong, but it starts to shine the most once you get master titles. My favorite early Masurao abilities are Swallow Soar, Armor Piece, and Haze Slash (sleep is awesome). With your party, you could probably pull off a good Blade Master (single sword) Masurao setup, since your Harbinger and Botanist can work together to land paralysis and help negate the Helm Splitter accuracy penalty.

Also I recommend putting the Dragoon in the front row. That row takes more attacks than the back row and your Dragoon is always going to be your tankiest party member, so it can help to have them up there to draw more hits. Plus, if you go for the cannon spec, you can do some great damage from the front row, much better than you can from the back. (The game tells you Dragoons go in the back row but it's lying.)

Harrow fucked around with this message at Nov 8, 2017 around 14:44

Not Operator
Jan 1, 2009

Not A doctor, THE Doctor!


See, I bought that back row dragoon thing and created a pugilist, harbinger, masurao front row. Thanks tooltips.

I mean, I'm not struggling exactly, but I wish I'd known this going in and I'd have taken a necro or something.

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Grand Gigas
Jul 2, 2006

True heroes always show up late.


I'm doing a second runthrough with the classes I didn't use. I got a Dragoon, Harbinger, Masauro, Necromancer, and Botanist. It feels good. It feels strong. I mean I'm sure part of that is a few new game plus benefits I alotted myself (mid-stratum 2 equipment) but they're pretty fuckin' good.

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