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At the beginning of October this year, a series of articles from The New York Times and The New Yorker detailed a series of allegations against Harvey Weinstein, movie producer, founder of Miramax and The Weinstein Company, detailing a history of sexually abusing young women and attempting to destroy the careers of women who refused his advances. He held a very well-established place in the Hollywood hierarchy and was able to keep this under wraps for the first few decades of his career, but after the initial articles came out, a huge outpouring of stories from women who were also groped, grabbed, assaulted and raped by Weinstein followed, and he quickly lost his job and was excommunicated from the Academy. In the following weeks, further accusations were brought against a wide swath of abusers in Hollywood, including directors, actors, producers, and other high ranking members of production companies. It’s barely been a month since the first articles were published and we’ve seen men in this field and others who have had their bad behavior brought to light, and there will more than likely be more to come. This has led to a greater conversation about how Hollywood works, how powerful men are able to cover up horrific behavior with money and fame on their side, and just how many women (and men) in Hollywood have similar stories of men who who were unconcerned with their boundaries and thought they could say or grab or do whatever they wanted. People are now taking a look at things they’ve done, or that have been done to them, and realizing that it’s not just “how the industry works,” but a serious problem that needs to be fixed so that future generations don’t have to deal with dumb bullshit. This thread is here for people to discuss allegations that have been brought up in the last week, allegations that have existed for years or even decades, and how Hollywood’s culture has allowed these men to flourish. This thread is not here for dumb bullshit. GonSmythe, esteemed CD Mod, was apprehensive about this thread existing: GonSmithe posted:I'm gonna have to say no on a thread specifically about that. It's just going to devolve into people arguing in bad faith or trolling or siding with rapists and I'm just going to end up closing it. So this is a warning that this discussion is gonna be closely monitored and that bad faith arguments, trolling, and siding with rapists is not gonna be tolerated here. If you want to do that garbage go to Reddit. I’m gonna put a list of articles in this first post that are the stories of the women who have come out and told their stories: (this list is incomplete, if there’s something you read that you think others should read post it and I’ll add it to this list!) Here's the initial New York Times article about Weinstein. This includes allegations from, among others, Ashley Judd and Ambra Battilana, who wore a recording device in a confrontation with Weinstein after he groped her. The tape is featured here, and is worth listening to if you can stomach it. This is the New Yorker article from Ronan Farrow that came out a few days later. Farrow is the son of Woody Allen, who will definitely be a topic of discussion in his this thread. This article has stories from Asia Argento and Mira Sorvino, among others. This is an NYT OpEd from Lupita Nyong’o, detailing a pre-fame meeting with Weinstein turned attempted casting couch encounter. A Guardian article about Rose McGowan, who has said that Weinstein raped her, and her speaking out over the last month, particularly accusing Amazon Studios head of production Roy Price (who has been accused himself of sexually assaulting a producer on an Amazon show) of ignoring her when she revealed that to him. Also, here is a depressing list of Hollywood people telling stories about their own personal experiences with sexual harassment/abuse in Hollywood. This ranges from simple tweets acknowledging that it happens to actual stories of incidents. If you want an idea of exactly how prevalent this sort of behavior is in the industry, just read all the way to the bottom.
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Nov 5, 2017 00:59
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List of Accused Folks in Hollywood: Harvey Weinstein - ür-indie producer, head of Miramax and The Weinstein Company Kevin Spacey - Oscar winner, star of American Beauty and House of Cards Brett Ratner - director of X-Men: The Last Stand and the Rush Hourhttps://jezebel.com/oliver-stone-has-also-been-accused-of-being-a-creep-1819449654 Oliver Stone - director of JFK, Natural Born Killers Roy Price - Amazon Studios Head of Development Dustin Hoffman - Oscar winner, star of The Graduate, Kramer vs. Kramer Ben Affleck - Batman, Oscar winner for Argo/Good Will Hunting Jeremy Piven - Entourage star Danny Masterson - The Ranch and That 70's Show star, scientologist James Toback - 80's director David Guillod - Atomic Blonde Producer, former manager John Grissom - was in 2 movies, alleged abuser of Corey Feldman Louis C.K. - star/creator of Louie, stand-up comedian Matthew Weiner - Creator of Mad Men Charlie Sheen - is Charlie Sheen Allison Mack - Smallville, crazy loving sex cult Robert Knepper - star of Gas Food Lodging, Prison Break Steven Segal - fat white kung-fu man Jeffery Tambor - star of Transparent, Arrested Development Men in other fields who have been in the news for this in the last few months or so: Mark Halperin R. Kelly Terry Richardson George H. W. Bush The US House of Representatives NPR/The New Republic Fidelity investment group John Besh Donald Trump, Bill O’Reilly and Roger Ailes/Fox News (I'm aware this was earlier in the year but it's a remarkably similar example of a company's culture being completely toxic) Presidents emeritus of the Hollywood Rapists Union: Roman Polanski Woody Allen Bill Cosby If there are more names to add here, put them (and an article listing the allegations) in a post and I'll tack them on here. DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 00:59
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I'm not sure if it's disturbing, discomforting, or refreshing, but it's certainly weird having huge chunks of pop culture crumble and fall away as these revelations accumulate.
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Nov 5, 2017 02:33
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This whole thing has also been great at exposing which men in Hollywood are perfectly OK with the status quo and either continually put their feet in their mouths or just keep quiet and hope that no one asks them how they feel about it. See: Baldwin, Alec. He said something stupid (because he made a documentary with James Toback about getting a movie made that featured an interview with Roman Polanski a few years ago and is apparently having a hard time reckoning with the fact that his bro is a big ol' creep) and when Asia Argento kept poking at him on Twitter he got so mad that he made angry tweets from the official account of his non-profit about Argento and her husband.
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Nov 5, 2017 02:41
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I now feel extremely bad for saying that I hope nothing bad comes out about Richard Dreyfuss because, uh, welp: https://www.avclub.com/actor-harry-dreyfuss-says-kevin-spacey-groped-him-when-1820148704
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Nov 5, 2017 07:31
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Victor Salva and Roman Polanski still aren't blacklisted from Hollywood, I see.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:22
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viral spiral posted:Victor Salva and Roman Polanski still aren't blacklisted from Hollywood, I see. Makes me wonder if any of the recently accused will suffer any real consequences.
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Nov 5, 2017 08:37
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The problem is just so enormous, time will tell if anything happens. Let's be real: not only did everyone in movies and tv know this sort of thing happens all the time, we all knew. Not specifics, like Weinstein outright raping Rose McGowan, but still. The concept of the casting couch is as old as the entertainment industry. Yet somehow, as society grudgingly started accomodating women's rights, we seem to have let Hollywood get away with it. Is it just because the entertainment industry is incestuous and we like to think they're all a bunch of sex fiends? I'm honestly wondering here. And: what would be a good way to start exorcising this poo poo? The crash/burn of Weinstein and Spacey won't scare off the other predators forever. I'm thinking like studios mandating that one-on-one casting sessions are no longer allowed, though the Hoffman story showed that's not foolproof either.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:18
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I feel that this is a problem in every industry, not just Hollywood, but in this case all the perps are famous people so it makes the news when they're finally outed/there can be public consequences. Compare to other fields where bosses and superiors have what equates to public anonymity and often the backing of their corporate infrastructure, and the victims have even less leverage to out them. I'm sure it manifests itself uniquely in the Hollywood work environment, but I just want to note that this isn't solely a Hollywood problem, it's a cultural problem writ large. Also, you should add Oliver Stone and Ben Affleck to the list of newly accused people.
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Nov 5, 2017 13:39
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Yeah, the Hollywood thing is more salacious and thus more headline-worthy since America has used Hollywood as Meritocracy Royalty since it came into existence, but there's literally no industry in this country where this poo poo isn't constantly happening, especially in businesses where the degrees of power one person can wield over others is as wide as the producer/director/lead actor and neophyte performer/crew member is. poo poo, I'm still waiting for Jeff Epstein's plane trips to become a story. That would be the moment that would really shake American culture, given the names Clinton and Trump would surely come up alongside Spacey and others. Especially given Epstein's registered sex offender status.
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Nov 5, 2017 14:16
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viral spiral posted:Victor Salva and Roman Polanski still aren't blacklisted from Hollywood, I see. I was super disappointed in Syfy that they actually went and aired Jeepers Creepers 3 and made a big deal about having it.
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Nov 5, 2017 18:30
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Here's a classic "Hollywood gives no fucks about victims" story: Your favorite director probably signed a letter asking the Swiss government to release Roman Polanski after he was arrested in 2009 on the warrant for his arrest that has existed since he fled the US in 1977. (most of these names are internationally based directors but there are plenty of recognizable American names on there. Fatih Akin Stephane Allagnon Woody Allen Pedro Almodovar Wes Anderson Jean-Jacques Annaud Alexandre Arcady Fanny Ardant Asia Argento Darren Aronofsky Olivier Assayas Alexander Astruc Gabriel Auer Luc Barnier Christophe Barratier Xavier Beauvois Liria Begeja Gilles Behat Jean-Jacques Beineix Marco Bellochio Monica Bellucci Djamel Bennecib Giuseppe Bertolucci Patrick Bouchitey Paul Boujenah Jacques Bral Patrick Braoudé Andre Buytaers Christian Carion Henning Carlsen Jean-Michel Carre Patrice Chereau Elie Chouraqui Souleymane Cisse Alain Corneau Jerome Cornuau Miguel Courtois Dominique Crevecoeur Alfonso Cuaron Luc et Jean-Pierre Dardenne Jonathan Demme Alexandre Desplat Rosalinde et Michel Deville Georges Dybman Jacques Fansten Joël Farges Gianluca Farinelli Jacques Fansten Etienne Faure Michel Ferry Scott Foundas Stephen Frears Thierry Fremaux Sam Gabarski René Gainville Tony Gatlif Costa Gavras Jean-Marc Ghanassia Terry Gilliam Christian Gion Marc Guidoni Buck Henry David Heyman Laurent Heynemann Robert Hossein Jean-Loup Hubert Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu Gilles Jacob Just Jaeckin Alain Jessua Pierre Jolivet Kent Jones Roger Kahane, Nelly Kaplan Wong Kar Waï Ladislas Kijno Harmony Korine Jan Kounen Diane Kurys Emir Kusturica John Landis Claude Lanzmann André Larquié Vinciane Lecocq Patrice Leconte Claude Lelouch Gérard Lenne David Lynch Michael Mann François Margolin Jean-Pierre Marois Tonie Marshall Mario Martone Nicolas Mauvernay Radu Mihaileanu Claude Miller Mario Monicelli Jeanne Moreau Sandra Nicolier Michel Ocelot Alexander Payne Richard Pena Michele Placido Philippe Radault Jean-Paul Rappeneau Raphael Rebibo Yasmina Reza Jacques Richard Laurence Roulet Walter Salles Jean-Paul Salomé Marc Sandberg Jerry Schatzberg Julian Schnabel Barbet Schroeder Ettore Scola Martin Scorcese Charlotte Silvera Abderrahmane Sissako Paolo Sorrentino Guillaume Stirn Tilda Swinton Jean-Charles Tacchella Radovan Tadic Danis Tanovic Bertrand Tavernier Cécile Telerman Alain Terzian Pascal Thomas Giuseppe Tornatore Serge Toubiana Nadine Trintignant Tom Tykwer Alexandre Tylski Betrand Van Effenterre Wim Wenders
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Nov 5, 2017 19:13
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DC Murderverse posted:Terry Gilliam ):<
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Nov 5, 2017 19:24
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To be fair, it probably had more to do with the politics of Swiss police extraditing a French citizen for the US. It would have set a precedent that could screw over someone when it actually matters. I'm sure plenty of the names did it because they think he's cleared, but I bet that's why at least Costa-Gavras and Claude Lanzmann signed it. Also, I read somewhere that Arthur Freed, MGM musicals producer, once exposed himself to Shirley Temple when she was a kid. Egbert Souse fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 5, 2017 |
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Nov 5, 2017 20:56
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Egbert Souse posted:To be fair, it probably had more to do with the politics of Swiss police extraditing a French citizen for the US. It would have set a precedent that could screw over someone when it actually matters. I'm sure plenty of the names did it because they think he's cleared, but I bet that's why at least Costa-Gavras and Claude Lanzmann signed it. I think it's fair to say the vast majority of filmmakers didn't sign that petition because they're concerned about French/Swiss relations. Roman Polanski still gets standing ovations at industry shows and that whole incident was about him being picked up while he was on his way to be honored.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:09
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They also do it because hollywood IS incestuous, those names know each other better than most and probably like to close rank. You ever covered for anything illicit a friend did? Ever obstructed justice for a friend? Yeah, well, commedians are the worst about closing rank and it took decades of accusation for anything to affect a man like Cosby. Not assigning moral judgement here (polanski is a poo poo and this is a stain on good directors) just when the culture of the industry is so connected, good luck getting anyone to break rank for anything short of worst of the worst.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:12
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Polanski's also a weird case because at this point the victim herself would rather his initial charges be dropped because she's sick of having to put up with her now-normal life getting thrown into disarray since every couple of years some DA or judge in California goes "we're gonna get that little worm!!" for easy fawning press. You don't see anyone coming out to defend him over the more recent allegations, though. He's pretty well hosed when it comes to those.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:17
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sethsez posted:I think it's fair to say the vast majority of filmmakers didn't sign that petition because they're concerned about French/Swiss relations. Roman Polanski still gets standing ovations at industry shows and that whole incident was about him being picked up while he was on his way to be honored. Eh, that's true. Reminds me of when everyone sat on their hands for Elia Kazan and Leni Riefenstahl in the memorial thing, but Polanski got an ovation.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:27
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Egbert Souse posted:Eh, that's true. this checks out, there are very few nazis or scabs in Hollywood, but there are a whole bunch of abusers.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:18
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Also worth saying that Riefenstahl actually served some time in prison and regretted (somewhat) her involvement with the Nazis.
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Nov 5, 2017 22:34
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I was going to say "Wes Anderson nooooo" then remembered the incredibly out of place sexualized scene between two pre-teens in Moonrise Kingdom. Still a great movie and compared to everything else it's really tame but it struck me as super out of place, even if the themes of the scene were on message. Wim Wenders though? 
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Nov 5, 2017 23:36
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The Cameo posted:Yeah, the Hollywood thing is more salacious and thus more headline-worthy since America has used Hollywood as Meritocracy Royalty since it came into existence, but there's literally no industry in this country where this poo poo isn't constantly happening, especially in businesses where the degrees of power one person can wield over others is as wide as the producer/director/lead actor and neophyte performer/crew member is. I worked in TV briefly, and it's a different culture. For example, I know one beloved person who used to do something often in the office involving their genitals that I don't think anyone ever labeled as harassment. It was very much a funny story about this person. But after working in offices, schools, and knowing friends in so many different businesses... what they did was loving weird. And once again, I don't think people were offended and if anyone had said they were, I think they would have stopped. But who knows? I think poo poo like that opened the door for more insidious people to be assholes. There was never a place I worked where people talking about the bodies of their coworkers so often and without restraint. There was no place I worked where parties and gathering were as blatantly open season for trying to hook up with younger and entry level employees. And when there was someone who sexually harassed me, I didn't really think much of it. And nor did the people who worked there when the same person who harassed me terrorized a young woman out of her job with no recourse whatsoever for the abuser. And yes, I've worked in other places where harassment happens, but those situations felt like it was because the person was lovely. In TV, it felt like a cultural problem. Part of it was twofold. Part of it is I don't think there was the level of discipline that other offices have. There was no HR. Most people didn't have clear supervisors and it would feel weird going to the EPs about it. So you get stuff that everyone accepts like the genitals gag, but that sort of opens the door for other shittiness. The other thing is that the entertainment industry is very encompassing. When I go home, my wife and friends can give a second set of eyes to what happened during my day. They can give an outsider's perspective. In entertainment, it's like high school. All your friends are in the industry and potentially on the same project. From my own really limited experience, it's different. And from my experience, this isn't poo poo that is just happening with these big men in power. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Nov 6, 2017 |
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Nov 6, 2017 00:50
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In the indie rock world, usually the worst you get is married couples writing songs about each other while in the same band. For the most part, everyone is too polite (or obsessed with being seen as polite) to do anything creepy (except on a local level, but that's just people being people). And it's just as often female on male predatory behavior when it does happen.
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Nov 6, 2017 00:59
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After what she revealed Harvey Weinstein did to her, I'm kind of surprised to see Asia Argento sign on to this.
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Nov 6, 2017 01:13
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precision posted:In the indie rock world, usually the worst you get is married couples writing songs about each other while in the same band. For the most part, everyone is too polite (or obsessed with being seen as polite) to do anything creepy (except on a local level, but that's just people being people). And it's just as often female on male predatory behavior when it does happen. I'm gonna call bullshit on this because I've seen enough articles on Pitchfork and Stereogum in the last year about people being kicked out of bands or having accusers come out and tell their stories that it's probably just as bad, just that it's spread out since all of Indie Rock isn't based out of one or two cities as much as the Film/TV industry are. Alex Calder Ben Hopkins (PWR BTTM) Jo Capitalcide (Zex) Claudio Palmieri (Crystal Castles) Matt Mondanile (Ducktales, Real Estate) William Benjamin Bensussen (The Gaslamp Killer) This is all just indie rock too, the poo poo that goes on in hip-hop and radio pop is probably even worse (Ke$ha's story predates the Weinstein stuff by a few years but should have been a canary in the coal mine).
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Nov 6, 2017 02:53
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DC Murderverse posted:I'm gonna call bullshit on this because I've seen enough articles on Pitchfork and Stereogum in the last year about people being kicked out of bands or having accusers come out and tell their stories that it's probably just as bad, just that it's spread out since all of Indie Rock isn't based out of one or two cities as much as the Film/TV industry are. Yeah I was actually originally going to put in a disclaimer that I was talking about 90s-00s style actual "indie indie rock", not acts like those. Think Yo La Tengo, Pavement and The Breeders, not Arcade Fire and Crystal Castles level bands. e: and to be clear, I've been deeply involved in that scene for a very long time, so I'm going off my own extensive experiences here
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Nov 6, 2017 03:29
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https://twitter.com/JRhodesPianist/status/926896883083239424
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Nov 6, 2017 05:27
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Egbert Souse posted:Also worth saying that Riefenstahl actually served some time in prison and regretted (somewhat) her involvement with the Nazis. Riefenstahl personally chose people from concentration camps to serve as extras in her movies and later denied it. gently caress her.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:01
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Alhazred posted:Riefenstahl personally chose people from concentration camps to serve as extras in her movies and later denied it. gently caress her. The more I read about her on Wikipedia, she comes off as a sociopath. Oh well.
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Nov 6, 2017 18:22
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Looks like Sony is hoping the Spacey stuff all blows over as there are reports that they're going to push the release date for "All the Money in the World" back to next June. They had previously announced that they were keeping the release date of late December but were dropping the Oscar campaign for Spacey's supporting role.
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Nov 6, 2017 21:31
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This, but replace "gambling" with "rape/unwelcome jerking off in front of people" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME
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Nov 6, 2017 22:56
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Ho-lee poo poo y’all https://twitter.com/ronanfarrow/status/927680764115898371
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Nov 7, 2017 03:03
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Davros1 posted:After what she revealed Harvey Weinstein did to her, I'm kind of surprised to see Asia Argento sign on to this. Yeah, that one is kind of weird. I was sort of surprised to see names like Tilda Swinton and David Lynch on there, but I guess there really isn't a reason to be. Making cool movies certainly doesn't have any connection to being a decent human being. At this point, I pretty much assume everyone in Hollywood is a lovely person in some way unless proven otherwise. At least Herzog isn't on there. Of course, there was that thing with Kinski's daughter later saying her dad was constantly molesting her, so yeah...
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Nov 7, 2017 05:32
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General Dog posted:This, but replace "gambling" with "rape/unwelcome jerking off in front of people" This coming from a defender of slavery.
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Nov 7, 2017 05:39
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DC Murderverse posted:Ho-lee poo poo y’all I heard about this on NPR during my morning commute. Absolutely mindblowing. The only thing I could keep thinking about was how the "popular" opinion of Rose McGowan over the past couple of years was that she had become unstable and impossible to work with, and how much my heart breaks for the fact that constructed narrative actually managed to take root. She was literally being gaslit by people posing as her friends, under the direction of Weinstein to gather information. I mean, holy poo poo. Thank god Rose is someone of such strong character, because that's the kind of poo poo that could easily drive someone to self-harm, or worse.
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Nov 7, 2017 19:52
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Speaking of Rose McGowan, I have to think Gregg Araki is on the chopping block. I'm honestly amazed he hasn't had anyone come forward yet.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:18
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Dr. S.O. Feelgood posted:At least Herzog isn't on there. Of course, there was that thing with Kinski's daughter later saying her dad was constantly molesting her, so yeah... Herzog should have accepted the native's deal to murder Kinski. I don't think there's much dispute over this now.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:42
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precision posted:Speaking of Rose McGowan, I have to think Gregg Araki is on the chopping block. I'm honestly amazed he hasn't had anyone come forward yet. any particular reason, other than that McGowan was 16 when they filmed Doom Generation? I've heard really good things about a lot of his movies, especially Mysterious Skin.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:43
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DC Murderverse posted:any particular reason, other than that McGowan was 16 when they filmed Doom Generation? I've heard really good things about a lot of his movies, especially Mysterious Skin. There were always rumors about him being a Larry Clark style horndog, but in retrospect, that may have been a John Waters style "confusing art with artist" deal. I quite like his films and hope he's not a creep.
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Nov 8, 2017 07:05
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Egbert Souse posted:The more I read about her on Wikipedia, she comes off as a sociopath. Oh well. I don't think she was a sociopath so much as she was a product of the regime she worked in. So many Nazis were ordinary people ingrained in a culture that said their victims weren't human and that they deserved to wield the power they did. Calling her or most other Nazis sociopaths is a dangerous route as it inadvertently absolves the conscious decisions made by ordinary people. Albeit there's certainly a few of them who likely did fit the bill (Mengele for one). Still, I wouldn't blame anyone for not applauding Leni Riefenstahl. I don't care what she contributed to cinematography I don't think the person who made Triumph of the Will ought to be awarded. Still, I think her films are worth watching, Olympia in particular is an astounding work. I just think they need to be approached academically and historically, never lightly the way you might watch Kazan or Polanski's works.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:35
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