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Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





drat it’s almost like when people tell you who they are over and over again for decades you should listen

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Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



pentyne posted:

And several white men who worked with him think he's the nicest man in the world.

Except Nicholas Breden who he bullied so hard he regressed into his alcoholism.

Affleck fell pretty hard into alcoholism during the reshoots too. He tried to get the cast to walk out to no avail.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Detective No. 27 posted:

Affleck fell pretty hard into alcoholism during the reshoots too. He tried to get the cast to walk out to no avail.

Affleck was the only one who's career probably could have survived a walk off, so while disappointing it's bit understandable.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


pentyne posted:

And several white men who worked with him think he's the nicest man in the world.

Except Nicholas Breden who he bullied so hard he regressed into his alcoholism.

To push back on this a little bit (and has Brendan actually said that or are people guessing?), for one thing I think it's pretty clear that given his line about RDJ, Disney are better at keeping a hold on these sorts of stories and that as Fisher alludes to here, the praise the cast gave Whedon was pretty much guided by the studio. So it makes me question how much praise he gets as being genuine. There's a difference in the praise James Marsters gave Whedon, which is more about the work than the man, compared to say Alan Tudyk who was full of praise for the person.

Maybe race is a factor, but to me his behaviour screams much more 1) I'm a writer and my word is law and 2) Actors are a pain and don't know anything other than how to say lines. Like the Booyah incident isn't even Whedon, it's Johns and the studio insisting that they have it.

Oh on a related note: https://twitter.com/notsofiacoppola/status/1379509976033468417?s=19

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




DrVenkman posted:

To push back on this a little bit (and has Brendan actually said that or are people guessing?), for one thing I think it's pretty clear that given his line about RDJ, Disney are better at keeping a hold on these sorts of stories and that as Fisher alludes to here, the praise the cast gave Whedon was pretty much guided by the studio. So it makes me question how much praise he gets as being genuine. There's a difference in the praise James Marsters gave Whedon, which is more about the work than the man, compared to say Alan Tudyk who was full of praise for the person.

Maybe race is a factor, but to me his behaviour screams much more 1) I'm a writer and my word is law and 2) Actors are a pain and don't know anything other than how to say lines. Like the Booyah incident isn't even Whedon, it's Johns and the studio insisting that they have it.

Oh on a related note: https://twitter.com/notsofiacoppola/status/1379509976033468417?s=19

Race/gender is absolutely a factor. Abusers tend to target those they think they can get away with it with. Guess who executives tend to pay less attention to about complaints?

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION


DrVenkman posted:

To push back on this a little bit (and has Brendan actually said that or are people guessing?), for one thing I think it's pretty clear that given his line about RDJ, Disney are better at keeping a hold on these sorts of stories and that as Fisher alludes to here, the praise the cast gave Whedon was pretty much guided by the studio. So it makes me question how much praise he gets as being genuine. There's a difference in the praise James Marsters gave Whedon, which is more about the work than the man, compared to say Alan Tudyk who was full of praise for the person.

Maybe race is a factor, but to me his behaviour screams much more 1) I'm a writer and my word is law and 2) Actors are a pain and don't know anything other than how to say lines. Like the Booyah incident isn't even Whedon, it's Johns and the studio insisting that they have it.

Oh on a related note: https://twitter.com/notsofiacoppola/status/1379509976033468417?s=19

There's absolutely always a concerted push to keep the image of things moving smoothly. If you go by the DVD extras and interviews, Blade 3 was the happiest film production in the history of everything. Instead it turned that it was a dumpster fire in a landfill that was also on fire.

Crackbone
May 23, 2003

Vlaada is my co-pilot.



Skwirl posted:

Race/gender is absolutely a factor. Abusers tend to target those they think they can get away with it with. Guess who executives tend to pay less attention to about complaints?


"They've never been racist or sexist to me!", says straight white male.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


Crackbone posted:

"They've never been racist or sexist to me!", says straight white male.

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016



Jesus. This article is absolutely horrifying.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/f...busive-behavior

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Scott Rudin is a famous piece of poo poo and I hope he dies, along with the cultural notion that people in any position of power can act however they like.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






I just checked out Tom Cruise's character in Tropic Thunder and goddamn. It was an open secret.

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

drat. gently caress that rear end in a top hat, I'm deliberately avoiding paying for anything with his name on it from now on.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!



Someone on twitter saying a bunch of the people in that expose also said they spoke to someone from the NYT years ago and nothing came of it. Wonder if there's "acceptable" and "unacceptable" targets in the eyes of the NYT.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 7, 2021

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




pentyne posted:

Someone on twitter saying a bunch of the people in that expose also said they spoke to someone from the NYT years ago and nothing came of it. Wonder if there's "acceptable" and "unacceptable" targets in the eyes of the NYT.

NY Times probably wouldn't have said poo poo about Weinstein if the New Yorker wasn't already gonna publish it.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



Maggie Habberman: "well he said he didn't so"

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003




"In a 2005 Wall Street Journal profile with the headline "Boss-zilla!," Rudin himself pegged the number of assistants he burned through in the previous five years at 119."

A new assistant every fifteen days.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Zogo posted:

"In a 2005 Wall Street Journal profile with the headline "Boss-zilla!," Rudin himself pegged the number of assistants he burned through in the previous five years at 119."

A new assistant every fifteen days.

That's Murphy Brown's secretary numbers.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Zogo posted:

"In a 2005 Wall Street Journal profile with the headline "Boss-zilla!," Rudin himself pegged the number of assistants he burned through in the previous five years at 119."

A new assistant every fifteen days.

Ah, but you see every one of those women was difficult to work with.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!






Zogo posted:

"In a 2005 Wall Street Journal profile with the headline "Boss-zilla!," Rudin himself pegged the number of assistants he burned through in the previous five years at 119."

A new assistant every fifteen days.

I had a boss like that. He kept looking for a designer every 15 days or monthly. I actually -probably- broke a record because I walked out on the first week. I wasn't so desperate to stand some rear end in a top hat throwing a tantrum and screaming at me.

Edit: btw, he noticed I was loving angry and started to act all meek when I said I wasn't coming back, and to pay me some money he owed me.

Linty Fresh
Oct 5, 2013



Apologies if this has been brought up before, but I think this article lays the problem out very neatly and explains why it will never be solved.

Sigh . . . I'm quite willing to believe that there are decent actors/comedians/producers/assorted power players in Hollywood . . . but they're just not in charge, are they? There are just too many assholes who are just too whacked out--and I believe that Scott Rudin, whom I first learned about after watching Swimming with Sharks, is legitimately mentally ill--and they have too much of a home court advantage, and I also think the problem goes deeper.

I realize it's cliche, but Hollywood deals with make believe. The essence of Hollywood is bringing someone else's unreal fantasy to the big screen using young, good-looking, woefully inexperienced people on both sides of the camera and throwing HUGE sums of money without much ability to quantify just how efficiently it's being used. Producers and other big fish who can bring make believe to life are given riches and fiefdoms without any accountability, at least not to people in any position to do them harm. Meanwhile, the actors, actresses, and would-be pretenders to the throne whose fathers aren't named Steven Spielberg or Donald Sutherland are all people who crave the attention and adoration of the masses as well as enough income to buy mansions without any realistic ideas of what these actually entail, let alone how to achieve them, as well as eternal youth, which one can only achieve by dying before 30.

This does NOT attract people with a healthy mindset. Just as brutal cunning people with prison records and anger issues are drawn to the mob, both predators and prey are drawn to Hollywood. Dreamers. Sex addicts. Attention whores. People with a tenuous grip on reality and hideously low self-esteem who will do quite literally ANYTHING to be the center of attention. The problem is entrenched; it is endemic to the industry. The only thing worse for an actor's psyche than being chewed up and spit out is if that person actually realized his or her hosed-up idea of what success actually looks like in that world. I read about people's ideas about how to make Hollywood less hostile and exploitative, and I think that it all makes about as much sense as trying to figure out a way to make mobsters and hitmen less hostile. You might as well be talking about ways to make the Aryan Nation more politically correct. The mob might be as interested in money and power as an insurance company, but that doesn't mean that you can turn its members into insurance salesmen (not THAT kind of insurance, anyway).

I'm glad that more women are cracking into big screen movie-making, but I just don't see this as any kind of solution. The only difference you're going to see is a bigger percentage of predators being women. Look at Ellen DeGeneres. What did she become as soon as she got an ounce of power? Exploitation might not be the whole point of Hollywood, but it's an inevitable byproduct. You could tear down the system tonight, start from scratch first thing tomorrow morning at 8:00 Pacific Daylight Time, and however good your intentions would be, you would wind up with the exact same environment before the close of the decade.

Some problems simply have no solutions.

Linty Fresh fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 8, 2021

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.



Linty Fresh posted:

Look at Ellen DeGeneres. What did she become as soon as she got an ounce of power?
Did she become? or just show? "Power corrupts" is a very common saying, but given what it takes to achieve and maintain power, and the kind of people who are in power and are generally needed to grant access to power, I think in most cases it's more that power attracts assholes and the kind of hoops you need to jump through, and people you need to curry favour with, means that exploitative selfish assholes are more likely to both pursue and achieve that power.

Power can corrupt in other less tangible ways, by giving privilege that makes one blind to the circumstances of those without power, but I don't think power makes people abusers it simply allows abusers to act with impunity and more brazenly.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Did she become? or just show? "Power corrupts" is a very common saying, but given what it takes to achieve and maintain power, and the kind of people who are in power and are generally needed to grant access to power, I think in most cases it's more that power attracts assholes and the kind of hoops you need to jump through, and people you need to curry favour with, means that exploitative selfish assholes are more likely to both pursue and achieve that power.

Power can corrupt in other less tangible ways, by giving privilege that makes one blind to the circumstances of those without power, but I don't think power makes people abusers it simply allows abusers to act with impunity and more brazenly.

I'd say what it usually takes is being an outright sociopath rather than just an rear end in a top hat.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

I'd say what it usually takes is being an outright sociopath rather than just an rear end in a top hat.

Yeah, all of these monsters only show their true colors around people they believe they have power over. People Weinstein viewed as equals or more powerful than him he was an absolute doll to. Do you think Joss Whedon told the execs at Warner Brothers how much he hated taking notes from people?

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


A lot of this Whedon fallout is easily explained by understanding that abusers target people they think they can get away with abusing. It’s not a blanket thing. Sarah Michelle Gellar made a statement in support of the other women who stepped forward but didn’t have any stories to tell herself, and it’s believable that that’s because she doesn’t have any. She was the main character of the show, her name was in the title, if you did anything to make her walk you’re basically hoping Angel could coast for a while?

There’s a pattern amongst the people who actually experienced that and they’re always the ones who don’t have any leverage. Whedon couldn’t get anywhere screaming at Gal Gadot so he called in her stunt actress instead. His patterns manifest in actors playing recurring characters with little experience in the industry, including a minor for Christ’s sakes.

So like, of course Alan Tudyk was immediately like “he never did anything wrong to me!” Yeah, of course he didn’t, because you’re not only a white man but you’re the big guy on screen. Doesn’t mean that poo poo didn’t happen you loving idiot.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


I think to be fair, there may be another side where women have also been exposed to this stuff no matter their power/influence/whatever. At least to me, it seemed like the Weinstein stuff suggested that there's no level of success or whatever you want to call it where women were completely safe from him. And like, not that it would be much better if the system protected specifically only powerful women, but the fact that it wasn't even doing that speaks to some wild levels of misogyny.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


I mean, I think no level of influence was safe from Weinstein because he was literally the highest level of influence possible in Hollywood. But your point is still salient.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Pirate Jet posted:

I mean, I think no level of influence was safe from Weinstein because he was literally the highest level of influence possible in Hollywood. But your point is still salient.
Yeah absolutely, you're right that basically Whedon did what he was "allowed" to get away with. I guess yeah I'm just saying it turned out that dudes in the real upper ranks were allowed to get away with everything.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


Shageletic posted:

I just checked out Tom Cruise's character in Tropic Thunder and goddamn. It was an open secret.

The Tropic Thunder producers have claimed that Les Grossman was not based on any particular person but rather he's an amalgamation of several different producers. Tbh I believe them. No shortage of abusive balding fat white guys in that profession (though I bet Grossman is around 50% Rudin, 40% Weinstein and 10% other assorted assholes).

AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Apr 8, 2021

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




AceOfFlames posted:

The Tropic Thunder producers have claimed that Les Grossman was not based on any particular person but rather he's an amalgamation of several different producers. Tbh I believe them. No shortage of abusive balding fat white guys in that profession (though I bet Grossman is around 50% Rudin, 40% Weinstein and 10% other assorted assholes).

Fits pretty well given the whole premise is the characters are mixes of various movie stars.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


The amalgam definitely makes sense when you think about how the only condition Cruise gave when agreeing to the role was he had to have giant sweaty prosthetic hands.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




That seems bizarrely symmetrical given the other guy with hands stuff in the movie.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010


Space Cadet Omoly posted:

Holy Hell this is horrifying.

This also made me realize why I find Gigi such an uncomfortable film. The movie presents a horrifying concept (child grooming) as something light hearted. It's like making a romantic comedy about the life of Ted Bundy.

President Cleavland married his ward when he was in the Whitehouse and America thought it was the most romantic fairytale ever at the time.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






AceOfFlames posted:

The Tropic Thunder producers have claimed that Les Grossman was not based on any particular person but rather he's an amalgamation of several different producers. Tbh I believe them. No shortage of abusive balding fat white guys in that profession (though I bet Grossman is around 50% Rudin, 40% Weinstein and 10% other assorted assholes).

Otoh




Shageletic fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Apr 8, 2021

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Did she become? or just show? "Power corrupts" is a very common saying, but given what it takes to achieve and maintain power, and the kind of people who are in power and are generally needed to grant access to power, I think in most cases it's more that power attracts assholes and the kind of hoops you need to jump through, and people you need to curry favour with, means that exploitative selfish assholes are more likely to both pursue and achieve that power.

Power can corrupt in other less tangible ways, by giving privilege that makes one blind to the circumstances of those without power, but I don't think power makes people abusers it simply allows abusers to act with impunity and more brazenly.

Yeah but the difference between having power and not having power over other people is what, like, unlocks the dehumanization that takes place between the authority and the authorized. It wouldn’t even occur to some people to treat others in this way, because of things like consequences. Once consequences and social expectations get sidelined because it’s your name on all the checks and posters and your life and career suddenly become an entire city’s economy and suddenly you’ve got a staff of 500 people with 3 executive producers acting like your gentry and you’re all sipping champagne in penthouse hot tubs that one can and fully does become removed from the people.

I don’t disagree with your point that power attracts assholes, but I’m just saying some people can be corrupted by power because they’ve just literally never experienced power before. I also subscribe personally to the theory that you just fully stop mentally or emotionally developing as a person when you become financially successful, so it seems basically impossible to me that becoming powerful through wealth would lead to better habits.

Before Ellen was a billionaire Oprah level media overlord, she was a loving HERO. I cannot stress enough how Ellen Degeneres absolutely paved the way for queer media personalities. Jane Lynch in an interview put it best but I’m paraphrasing “my entire career up until Ellen had been figuring out how to hide myself and then she took the big bullet for all of us” essentially breaking the gay ice for main stream media. I’ve watched hours of interviews with queer 90’s icons and you really won’t find any of them who don’t go back to Ellen (or Roseanne, who hilariously used to be one of the wokest and most progressive people in the business and was putting gay stories and characters in prime time family cable TV before basically anybody). She was, I believe, the very first female comic invited by Johnny Carson, just an absolutely inspirational figure for basically every woman in comedy, and by all accounts a very scatterbrained and mousy woman who worked harder than everyone else put together and was seemingly immunized against having doors slammed in her face for being a woman trying to make it in showbiz.

I think “money and power have the ability to corrupt anyone because it leads to a lack of consequences and accountability” makes more sense than “everyone in power is an rear end in a top hat because power attracts assholes”

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






This morning, I was thinking of how loving skeevy and horrible it is that Scott Rudin never hired anyone over 25 and just loving terrorized these kids until they broke down, and then got another one straight out of college to replace them.

When you're young and straight out of school, you're so loving vulnerable its ridiculous. You'll do anything to prove yourself, and you invest so much trust and hope in your older co-workers and bosses to help you figure yourself out.

And rudin like any predator just exploitated that as much as possible.

Pachylad
Jul 12, 2017



I wonder if it means something that when I reverse image search'd this, Google gave me the result 'gentleman'.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Yeah I think saying 'they're just sociopaths' undermines any potential growth by playing into the just some bad actors myth. The biggest reason people get away with it is a culture of that's what's expected 'I was treated this way so that's how your supposed to act'.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Bust Rodd posted:

I think “money and power have the ability to corrupt anyone because it leads to a lack of consequences and accountability” makes more sense than “everyone in power is an rear end in a top hat because power attracts assholes”

I mean... why not both?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010


AceOfFlames posted:

And this is after they decided to cut a scene involving Pepe Le Pew learning about consent. So apparently that’s bad but adding a bunch of actual rapists to your crowd scene is fine.
The way the scene is described they should have kept him in the movie. Would love to see him get consequences for his bad behavior.

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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


I thought that Whedon only worked on the first episode of his new show, I'm pretty sure that was the news anyway, but this review seems to indicate it isn't the case.

quote:

As HBO emphasized in its Whedon-free publicity campaign, The Nevers isn’t a one-man show. It’s a collaborative effort with an extensive cast, elaborate production design (Gemma Jackson), and a diverse writing team including the fan-favorite Jane Espenson (Buffy, Game of Thrones, Jessica Jones). However, this is still unmistakably a Whedon joint. He may have departed the show before its release, but they’d already wrapped filming and he directed several episodes himself. And it’s morbidly interesting to see how his recurring tricks and themes have deteriorated since the highs of his early career.

From here: https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/hbo-the-nevers-review/

It notes that the show is taking a break after episode 6. So I wonder if HBO are going to try and retool it.

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