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John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

Only Accused Of STATUTORY Rape

They are bringing in Zack Snyder to finish the rest of the show

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Yea unfortunately there's no way around the fact that t.v. shows employ a whole bunch of people so if there's some way to just kick a problem person off the production without having to end the employment of all those people that's usually the preferable option.

Linty Fresh
Oct 5, 2013


Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Did she become? or just show? "Power corrupts" is a very common saying, but given what it takes to achieve and maintain power, and the kind of people who are in power and are generally needed to grant access to power, I think in most cases it's more that power attracts assholes and the kind of hoops you need to jump through, and people you need to curry favour with, means that exploitative selfish assholes are more likely to both pursue and achieve that power.

Power can corrupt in other less tangible ways, by giving privilege that makes one blind to the circumstances of those without power, but I don't think power makes people abusers it simply allows abusers to act with impunity and more brazenly.

Fair enough, but my point still stands: No sane, mature, and grounded person would do this to themselves, or if they did, they'd quickly get out. Again, the Irish mob attracts people like Whitey Bulger. Showbiz attracts not only the Weinstein/Rudin/Degeneres abusers and sociopaths (and I agreed with Rodd that Ellen probably did not start out as an apex predator), but also the types of people who would actually be crazy enough to submit to this level of abuse just for the slight possibility to get ahead. Once those people get together, the process quickly becomes hyper-Darwinian. I'm quite sure a bunch of people told Scott Rudin or Harvey Weinstein to go gently caress themselves. The reason you don't read much about those people is that moment marked the second their entertainment careers got Alderaanized. The people who survive that process are pretty much by definition either newly-formed predators or, at best, entirely unable to stop the predators. One way or another, they have become institutionalized.

I mean, let's say Ellen lived up to outward appearances and treated her staff decently and humanely. Let's imagine that the worst you could say about her was that she was having a bad afternoon one day, snapped at an intern about her latte, and immediately offered a sincere apology. Would it really make any difference in the grand scheme of things? She would still be part of the system. She would still be pals with Matt Lauer. If some focus group came out with a study that said that the quickest way to get to the number one slot and stay there would be to get a naked Roman Polanski standing on her desk while she literally kissed his old wrinkled rapey rear end, she would do it, and she'd do it, because she wouldn't have a choice. Morality and decency simply don't enter into whether you get to keep your job--while preserving the jobs of everyone else who works with you and for you on that show. Once you are in the system, you are in.

There's no such thing as institutionalized freedom.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Bust Rodd posted:

)She was, I believe, the very first female comic invited by Johnny Carson,

Joan Rivers was on Johnny Carson's tonight show in 1965 and guest hosted it multiple times when he was on vacation or whatever.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Skwirl posted:

Joan Rivers was on Johnny Carson's tonight show in 1965 and guest hosted it multiple times when he was on vacation or whatever.

I was gonna say, Joan Rivers was a god drat legend on Carson for years. She probably should have taken over for him. (I have no idea if she even wanted the job.)

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




thrawn527 posted:

I was gonna say, Joan Rivers was a god drat legend on Carson for years. She probably should have taken over for him. (I have no idea if she even wanted the job.)

They had a massive falling out when she agreed to host her own late night show on Fox in the same timeslot and didn't tell Carson about it before hand. He found out from industry trade papers. She got banned from the Tonight Show and both Leno and Conan (for his brief time) didn't invite her to the show either.

It loving sucks because if that hadn't happened she absolutely would have taken over the show when Carson left.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Skwirl posted:

They had a massive falling out when she agreed to host her own late night show on Fox in the same timeslot and didn't tell Carson about it before hand. He found out from industry trade papers. She got banned from the Tonight Show and both Leno and Conan (for his brief time) didn't invite her to the show either.

It loving sucks because if that hadn't happened she absolutely would have taken over the show when Carson left.

Ah, I did not know that.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




thrawn527 posted:

Ah, I did not know that.

I will say the fact she agreed to do a talk show in the same time slot means she almost certainly would have wanted The Tonight Show if she'd been offered.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.



Linty Fresh posted:

Fair enough, but my point still stands:
Your description of the Hollywood system as it is may stand, I don't really take issue with that, and I do agree that the entertainment industry attracts both abusers and victims in unique ways even before the power dynamics come in and that makes it a harder system to clean up, but the concept of what can be fixed and how is very different depending on what the chain of causation is.

If, as you say, power inherently corrupts and it's impossible to have an entertainment system (and political system and general business system) that does not create and enable abusers then the solution isn't simply to clean them or regulate them or even tear them down (because the system will recreate itself in some way). I'm not sure what the solution would really be in that case because the implication is that human beings, in general, are pieces of poo poo who, if given impunity and power, will use that power to abuse others for no reason beyond their own pleasure at that abuse and the fact that they can.

If, as I believe, the problem is one of self perpetuation, that we as a society have historically given power to those who display bad desires and traits, and that it is those personalities who self perpetuate the idea that power corrupts, then the reality is that those people are corrupting what power can do. This would give way to a very different set of solutions, because it would mean that cleaning house is actually possible, that creating appropriate safeguards and culture and putting people in power who would do good with it and not abuse that power and abuse other is possible.

My feeling, not backed up by data, is that the idea that "power corrupts" is one created by those in power to defend their power and excuse their abuses. It basically says "don't bother trying to find someone better, because they too will end up as an rear end in a top hat abuser, and at least I'm doing X good thing with my power while they would be just as bad without the good." But I don't believe this is the case. There are many politicians and business people and Hollywood moguls who are not abusive pieces of poo poo. They may not be as "good" as I would like, but that's because the system biases towards traits like ruthlessness and egoism and tends to attract (not create) people who are not particularly good. There are many good people out in the world, and if we found ways of putting them into power I don't think they'd become corrupted, I think they'd be able to change systems and create appropriate safeguards.

In some ways this is academic, especially when it comes to private businesses. They regulate themselves and even if public pressure pushes them to do things to save face or create a less hostile atmosphere, change from within will at best be slow because those making the decisions are looking out for themselves and their colleagues first. But to the extent that we, the public, think we can change institutions, which way the misuse of power goes is a very important thing to consider when we consider how things can be reformed and how the world can be improved.

Bust Rodd posted:

I don’t disagree with your point that power attracts assholes, but I’m just saying some people can be corrupted by power because they’ve just literally never experienced power before. I also subscribe personally to the theory that you just fully stop mentally or emotionally developing as a person when you become financially successful, so it seems basically impossible to me that becoming powerful through wealth would lead to better habits.
I'll agree with this, generally, but I think that "some" is an important distinction, when your argument instead seems to be that it's "nearly all."


quote:

Before Ellen was a billionaire Oprah level media overlord, she was a loving HERO. I cannot stress enough how Ellen Degeneres absolutely paved the way for queer media personalities. Jane Lynch in an interview put it best but I’m paraphrasing “my entire career up until Ellen had been figuring out how to hide myself and then she took the big bullet for all of us” essentially breaking the gay ice for main stream media. I’ve watched hours of interviews with queer 90’s icons and you really won’t find any of them who don’t go back to Ellen (or Roseanne, who hilariously used to be one of the wokest and most progressive people in the business and was putting gay stories and characters in prime time family cable TV before basically anybody). She was, I believe, the very first female comic invited by Johnny Carson, just an absolutely inspirational figure for basically every woman in comedy, and by all accounts a very scatterbrained and mousy woman who worked harder than everyone else put together and was seemingly immunized against having doors slammed in her face for being a woman trying to make it in showbiz.
Ellen being an ICON and HERO, say nothing about her personality. It says that she took a big risk at the right time in the right place to open doors for herself and others. This is something that can be done by a selfless person, or by a selfish person, by a saint or an abuser or anything in between. Note that everything you say except for "very scatterbrained and mousy woman who worked harder than everyone else put together" is about her public, not private persona. They say nothing about what she would have or could have done as a person behind the scenes at the time. There were many people who felt that way about her even after she had the power and began lording it over people, because her public persona didn't meaningfully change as she gained power and fame.

quote:

I think “money and power have the ability to corrupt anyone because it leads to a lack of consequences and accountability” makes more sense than “everyone in power is an rear end in a top hat because power attracts assholes”
That depends on whether a) you really think the vast majority people with power abuse it in significant ways, and b) you think consequences and accountability are the primary thing keeping the vast majority of people from being abusers.

Like I said, I do think power affects people, because no one is perfect and we all have our vices and flaws. Lack of accountability and fear of consequences leads people to be more reckless and selfish, but there's a significant difference between spending money on selfish whims or being less understanding of other people's problems and being an active abuser. I sincerely believe that no matter how much power you gave them most people would not be Weinstein or Rudin, most people do not enjoy that behaviour and having the power to do it with impunity would not suddenly make them want to hurt people.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Peaceful Anarchy posted:


That depends on whether a) you really think the vast majority people with power abuse it in significant ways, and b) you think consequences and accountability are the primary thing keeping the vast majority of people from being abusers.


Yeah, I think there absolutely should be consequences and accountability for abusers, but the fact I could go to jail for it isn't the primary reason I'm not a murderer or thief or rapist (especially since I know there's about a 66% chance of getting away with murder and my odds only get better with the other crimes I mentioned).

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Living the life of a sheltered rich person is a good way to create a sociopath.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



https://twitter.com/MarzGurl/status/1380267116046077953?s=20

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


No you see, Vic wasn’t preying on all those underage girls at conventions, he was just inviting them up to his room so he could better guide them to accept Christ in their lives.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Big Mean Jerk posted:

No you see, Vic wasn’t preying on all those underage girls at conventions, he was just inviting them up to his room so he could better guide them to accept Christ in their lives.

My favorite bit from his deposition was him admitting to hiring hookers when the question he was asked had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he'd ever hired a hooker.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





Big Mean Jerk posted:

No you see, Vic wasn’t preying on all those underage girls at conventions, he was just inviting them up to his room so he could better guide them to accept Christ in their lives.

He calls his dick Christ, does he?

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



Hopefully this is a domino thing

https://film.avclub.com/charlene-yi...9644.1615754795

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust






Whoa gently caress I had no doubts about Franco but she’s alleging she went to Seth Rogen and he tried to shut her up with a bigger role in the film. That loving SUCKS, I liked him and his pottery.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



https://twitter.com/danatweeets/status/1379601270508412936?s=20

https://twitter.com/VICE/status/1380216375575248898?s=20

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



https://benton-kris-r.medium.com/i-was-groomed-by-vincent-gallo-345b39bc1f0

quote:

I Was Groomed By Vincent Gallo


it's long

Alan Smithee fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Apr 10, 2021

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Didnt Vincent Gallo abuse people on film.

E: like thats his claim to fame.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Shageletic posted:

Didnt Vincent Gallo abuse people on film.

E: like thats his claim to fame.

I mean, I assumed that infamous scene he filmed with Chloe Sevigny was consensual, or at least she never spoke publicly about it being anything but. But Gallo has always been a piece of poo poo, I never really knew why he got so famous other than just being pretentious and declaring himself to be an artist. Like that article said, he's basically coasted along on Buffalo 66 and did nothing else of note except being a douchey art world drifter who hangs out with celebrities and artists.

I never really knew how he operated until I read that article though. He's definitely a predator, but I think it's more a predator for love and adulation than sexual gratification. He doesn't even seem to enjoy the sex, he just wants to be wanted and wants to groom impressionable people into worshiping him like a cult leader.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Here's some more poo poo that loving parasite has farted out.

https://twitter.com/dima_flavia/status/1324696999988514822

https://twitter.com/casparsalmon/status/1324286982701404161

It's just a prank bro!

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust






I know it's not exactly Hollywood, but holy poo poo would I love for their to be a reckoning in the EDM music world. The entire scene is fundamentally based on kids doing drugs and getting hosed up and worshipping DJs like the rockstar gods of the 60-70s, but amplified like 10,000x because these communities are inherently extremely online (that's where all the music comes from, that's the only way to know about shows). Hardcore defendants of rave culture will insist that it's about the music and the community until they go blue in the face* but the truth is that maybe 10% of the community ever gets to that level of rave nerd and the rest are just young people trying to get completely hosed up and dance around and bump into strangers so they can feel something. I don't know to what degree this reflects the rock and punk fandoms in the 60-70-80's but people at music festivals today and basically since at least 2010 have been going to buy and sell drugs to each other so that they can get hosed up. It's literally a fish-in-a-barrel situation of people being taken advantage of, if not by predatory drug dealers then predatory abusers, and if you're the dude whose name is on the poster and who brings all these people together, it's absolutely no wonder that you can do this insane human trafficking poo poo for like a decade and get away with it.

*they are probably also going blue in the face from nitrous.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011

LET THIS PICTURE OF AN ADORABLE KITTEN FOOL YOU


You've described literally any music scene ever, in the history of time. I don't care if it's folk music that has a crowd of 9 people, there are drugs and abusive predators there.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Bassnectar's many-time collaborator Ill Gates put up a video with proof that Lorin (AkA, Bassnecatar) had ripped a big chunk of one of his songs for the title track for a Bassnectar Album. They'd done a half-dozen or so tracks in the past, but stopped when Dylan (AkA Ill Gates) confronted Lorin over it.

A bit of time passed and they did more shows and stuff together, but no more music because Lorin couldn't be trusted. From the way Dylan says it, he chose to play with Lorin because Lorin had so much pull in the industry and would book Dylan for massive shows and festivals.

So, someone that Lorin had basically stolen from, still felt that it was necessary to swallow the pill of working with the guy again, because he was really powerful in their industry. Bassnectar had a cult following, he absolutely had the tools and power to get away with this poo poo for a long time.

Once the accusations came out, Dylan dropped all connections with Lorin and has been a pretty vocal critic. At first he was on the "I never saw anything, personally" story, but over time he's revealed more and more suss poo poo that looks very different in daylight.

https://twitter.com/5_MeO_MaTT/status/1381282585175855107

Reading creepy manipulation manuals and success-win poo poo is a red flag for anyone, particularly a new-age hippy musician.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





Grabbed this from the greenlight thread
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/...ingawful.com%2F

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Good. Take the rest of his teeth.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



harvey: "also my skin is falling off"

"hahahahahahah"

harvey: "please stop laughing, my tongue fell out too"

"ahahahahahahahah"

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



King Vidiot posted:

I mean, I assumed that infamous scene he filmed with Chloe Sevigny was consensual, or at least she never spoke publicly about it being anything but. But Gallo has always been a piece of poo poo, I never really knew why he got so famous other than just being pretentious and declaring himself to be an artist. Like that article said, he's basically coasted along on Buffalo 66 and did nothing else of note except being a douchey art world drifter who hangs out with celebrities and artists.

I never really knew how he operated until I read that article though. He's definitely a predator, but I think it's more a predator for love and adulation than sexual gratification. He doesn't even seem to enjoy the sex, he just wants to be wanted and wants to groom impressionable people into worshiping him like a cult leader.

He got in a fight with Roger Ebert because the cut of Brown Bunny that he showed at Cannes was garbage. Unfortunately Ebert later reviewed an edited version and said it was pretty good but Gallo was a whiny loving baby even after that

edit: here’s Ebert’s response to Gallo calling him fat and playing the “woe is me for I’m a straight white Christian guy” card. He’s always been a piece of poo poo

quote:

Vincent Gallo has put a curse on my colon and a hex on my prostate.

He called me a "fat pig" in the New York Post and told the New York Observer I have "the physique of a slave-trader." He is angry at me because I said his "The Brown Bunny" was the worst movie in the history of the Cannes Film Festival. I was not alone in my judgment. Screen International, the British trade paper, convenes a panel of critics to score the official entries. "The Brown Bunny" scored 0.6 out of a possible five--the lowest score in its history, the paper said. This came as a blow to the French. Their national pride could not abide the notion that an American film was worse than any of their own, and so a few days later they countered with Bertrand Blier's "Les Cotelettes.""It actually scored even worse with our forlorn international critics," Colin Brown, editor of Screen International, told me.

"Seven zeroes, vs. Gallo's five zeroes." The "Bunny" press screening "was remarkable for the unrestrained hostility of the audience," wrote A. O. Scott in the New York Times. At the end, the audience "gave voice to that French form of abuse that sounds like a cross between the lowing of a cow and the hooting of an owl." During a scene where Gallo shares a bicycle with a young woman, I became so nostalgic for "Butch Cassidy" that I softly sang "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head." I stopped after six words when my wife jabbed me in the ribs.

I was overheard by a writer for Hollywood Reporter, who included it in his coverage about how badly the film was received, and that is another reason Gallo has put the heebie-jeebie on my colon and prostate. I am not too worried. I had a colonoscopy once, and they let me watch it on TV. It was more entertaining than "The Brown Bunny."

"A day after the fiasco of the movie's premiere, Screen International ran a remarkable interview in which Gallo apologized for his film, calling it "a disaster and a waste of time," and adding, "I apologize to the financiers of the film, but I must assure you it was never my intention to make a pretentious film, a self-indulgent film, a useless film, an unengaging film." He added that the official screening "was the worst feeling I ever had in my life," and said he would never watch the film again.

On Monday Gallo told the New York Post’s Page Six that Screen International “made up” his quotes. He added, “I’m sorry I’m not gay or Jewish, so I don’t have a special interest group of journalists who support me.” Such comments might seem politically incorrect, but not to Gallo, who says he is a conservative Republican, although since his film ends with a hard-core oral sex scene, he is not likely to be fielding many group bookings from the Moral Majority.

But was Gallo actually misquoted?

"Absolutely insane stuff from Gallo," editor Colin Brown assured me. "Not only is everything we wrote in Cannes exactly as he spewed out, word for word, it was all recorded on audio tape." He added, "It makes me wonder whether this is not all some great marketing ploy on his part. I have actually come across people who say 'Brown Bunny' is top of their list of films they most want to see out of Cannes this year."

Fionnuala Halligan, who wrote the Screen International piece, says she quoted Gallo accurately and sent me a copy of his transcript.

"By the end he is shouting and spitting, and his invective is so unpleasant, I feel quite shaken listening to it again," she told me. "I don't think it was a good day for him to meet the press, as he was obviously extremely upset. He was very late, and all the interviews that had previously been arranged got lumped into one group, which is fortunate for me, as he probably would have thumped me otherwise."

Gallo all but wept in a Cannes interview as he described the pain of "growing up ugly," but empathy has its limits, and he had no tears for a fat pig and slave-trader such as myself. It is true that I am fat, but one day I will be thin, and he will still be the director of "The Brown Bunny."

DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 13, 2021

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

Good morning!


Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION



Somebody described this as what you usually hear as the adoption ad for a pitbull called Onion Ring and that is pretty bang on.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



why the gently caress would a dog have a lawyer? Pass

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Snowman_McK posted:

Somebody described this as what you usually hear as the adoption ad for a pitbull called Onion Ring and that is pretty bang on.

Crossing the line from decrepit old horndog into decrepit old dog.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Alan Smithee posted:

harvey: "also my skin is falling off"

"hahahahahahah"

harvey: "please stop laughing, my tongue fell out too"

"ahahahahahahahah"

rare footage of weinstein in prison just dropped:

(time stamp :52)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-Lx_3dZg1A

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Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Moby on fame and regret: ‘I was an out-of-control, utterly entitled drink and drug addict’
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/apr/12/moby-on-fame-and-regret-i-was-an-out-of-control-utterly-entitled-drink-and-drug-addict

Broadway producer Scott Rudin steps aside amid accusations of abusive behavior going back decades, apologizes for pain he caused
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...sed/ar-BB1fL3G2

Broadway Producer Scott Rudin’s Act of Contrition Should Get a Tony: He’s Saving His Mega “Music Man” Production
https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/04/...-man-production

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