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Darko posted:Either we accept people can change and accept proof of change (like being a decade removed with lack of other offenses), while condemning CURRENT actions, or we lose that war because there will be no one left to speak against those we are fighting against.  I just feel weird about dunking on an LGBT person who only just saw some really vile poo poo Gunn once said about LGBT people.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:32
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I've avoided dunking on them as such as well, but as a minority, I'm also willing to forgive racists that have reformed because I recognize that I had lovely, uninformed opinions about people 20 years ago, and much of that was based on societal exposure. I think it's better to focus on the positive and show what it takes for people to change to encourage change, personally. But everyone handles everything differently.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:48
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Darko posted:I've avoided dunking on them as such as well, but as a minority, I'm also willing to forgive racists that have reformed because I recognize that I had lovely, uninformed opinions about people 20 years ago, and much of that was based on societal exposure. I think it's better to focus on the positive and show what it takes for people to change to encourage change, personally. But everyone handles everything differently. Oh, agreed. I mean I'm a member of the LGBT community myself and my views on the Gunn firing and forgiving him have been stated enough times by now. I just respect letting someone come to terms with it in their own time, or have their own views on what they think is too offensive to be allowed to be said-- even if I don't agree w/ the idea of people not being allowed to say offensive things, in general.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:50
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Groovelord Neato posted:the gunn thing reminds me somewhat of the dogpiling ken jennings got for this tweet: https://twitter.com/KenJennings/status/43738324275441664 https://twitter.com/KenJennings/status/89567356262678528 https://twitter.com/KenJennings/status/693530150479106048 https://twitter.com/KenJennings/status/237321859614523394 Hmmmm, I believe you'll find that Jennings has made jokes about rape and is now an irredeemable monster and those Trump-lovers were in fact, right and correct for trying to get him fired from his book deals.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:53
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Safeword posted:Why should rape and molestation jokes be allowed on a public platform, though? Beyond the dubious "free speech" qualities, what does acceptance of that material give anyone? Because some people find such jokes funny. also lol dubious
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Jul 23, 2018 00:13
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Martman posted:So like, he didn't actually experience backlash did he? I'm not denying the value of that statement you've quoted, but people have been saying there was already backlash and that's what I'm asking about. Never admit you were wrong.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:17
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esperterra posted:
As a fellow queer person, I'm perfectly okay dunking on an LGBT person who's backing the wrong horse.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:23
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I don't know about you guys but I'm beginning to think the victor in the culture war isn't going to be the side whose members eagerly tear down even their most vocal and prominent allies at the first sign they failed to be 100 percent pure of thought and expression for every waking second of their entire lives.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:24
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BrandonGK posted:I don't know about you guys but I'm beginning to think the victor in the culture war isn't going to be the side whose members eagerly tear down even their most vocal and prominent allies at the first sign they failed to be 100 percent pure of thought and expression for every waking second of their entire lives. Yeah, the victors in the culture war are definitely going to be guys who produce no culture whatsoever.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:28
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chitoryu12 posted:As a fellow queer person, I'm perfectly okay dunking on an LGBT person who's backing the wrong horse. Fair! I just don't see it as them backing Cerno, myself.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:38
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Judakel posted:Never admit you were wrong.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:41
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He hasn’t had backlash for the tweets because they were buried by other stuff or deleted and not to mention that he wasn’t all that famous back then. Only is weirdos knew his work and who he was. He was, to the public a nobody until GOTG.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:48
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esperterra posted:Fair! I just don't see it as them backing Cerno, myself. Isn't it Disney that's backing Cernovich here? This is the problem with petitioning corporations to take action on this or that.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:52
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Martman posted:So like, he didn't actually experience backlash did he? I'm not denying the value of that statement you've quoted, but people have been saying there was already backlash and that's what I'm asking about. the "backlash" now is almost entirely invented.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:01
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You can criticize people and their positions without immediately jumping to “you loving love nazi rapists”
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Jul 23, 2018 01:02
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esperterra posted:Fair! I just don't see it as them backing Cerno, myself. While it's not a direct backing, it's taking the position of Cernovich of "This guy should be fired from his job for deleted tweets from years ago that he disavowed and apologized for." There was basically nobody supporting that position (because it was a position nobody even knew existed) until a rapist white supremacist started making noises specifically for the purposes of revenge against critics of Donald Trump. And now that the door has been opened to retroactively punishing people for just lovely jokes in the past (and I think it's really loving important to point out that it was just lovely jokes; it's not like Gunn was committing crimes here), who's safe? Who here in this thread has never once done something like what Gunn did and now may potentially have the door open to retroactive punishment?
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Jul 23, 2018 01:18
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Groovelord Neato posted:the "backlash" now is almost entirely invented.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:19
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Maybe the problem is making corporations your moral arbiters when their only concern is their financial well-being. They might do the right thing (e.g. canning Roseanne), but did they do it for the right reason (combating racism)? Or did they do it to insulate themselves from the fallout from her bullshit, rather than genuine moral outrage?. If they do the right thing for the wrong reason, it's not hard to see them also doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason as well, which brings us to Gunn. Being angry at someone's conduct and petitioning their employer for sanction is great and all, but when they get fired it probably isn't because the company has had it's morals offended, they are just avoiding trouble. Not to mention it can also backfire (see Richards, Adria).
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Jul 23, 2018 01:19
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chitoryu12 posted:Who here in this thread has never once done something like what Gunn did and now may potentially have the door open to retroactive punishment? Ah, I see what it's all about now
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Jul 23, 2018 01:22
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https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1020405289474961409?s=21
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Jul 23, 2018 01:30
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chitoryu12 posted:Who here in this thread has never once done something like what Gunn did and now may potentially have the door open to retroactive punishment? I guess I don’t really have any hard numbers to back this up, but I suspect many people do somehow manage to avoid publicly signing their name to awful pedophilia and rape non-jokes. It’s enough to acknowledge that the corporate response here was misguided! There’s no need to pretend that everyone is guilty of the exact same behavior.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:51
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Sio posted:I guess I don’t really have any hard numbers to back this up, but I suspect many people do somehow manage to avoid publicly signing their name to awful pedophilia and rape non-jokes. I would consider it a challenge to find any goon who hasn’t made a similar joke in the past.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:52
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thanks man really helpful contribution to the conversation
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Jul 23, 2018 01:57
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Imagine looking at a trifecta that involves a company that abuses and destroys entire cities, which was founded by a nazi, an actual literal nazi who raped someone and a dude who made lovely gross jokes before coming to terms with his toxic masculinity and realising he was wrong and thinking it's the third who' should be punished.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:10
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For people who want to talk about how much he's helped people in regards to sexual assault after those jokes are made, let's turn to Selma Blair.quote:Last year, when she detailed to Vanity Fair the sexual harassment she faced while auditioning for James Toback, Blair said that Gunn's support helped her come forward with her story. In a separate interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Blair said that Gunn and Doctor Strange writer-director Scott Derrickson "reached out and said how important it was to be on this side of history." https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...medium=referral
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Jul 23, 2018 02:14
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Catfishenfuego posted:Imagine looking at a trifecta that involves a company that abuses and destroys entire cities, which was founded by a nazi, an actual literal nazi who raped someone and a dude who made lovely gross jokes before coming to terms with his toxic masculinity and realising he was wrong and thinking it's the third who' should be punished. Just because it’s worth clarifying, historically speaking Walt Disney WAS NOT a Nazi, but said some kind of racist things in private and had some Nazi’s over to the studio, but also pushed for diversity in the studio. He may have been a racist, but the assertion that he was a Nazi/Nazi sympathizer is overblown and false. He’s was probably JUST a terrible person, but likely not a Nazi.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:25
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James Gunn is definitely a weirdo, but I don't think he should have been fired for those tweets, especially if he had already apologized for them before Mike Cernovich dug them up. It's also amazing how Cernovich keeps getting public figures in trouble or fired for tweets. Imagine just sitting there reading through thousands of tweets by somebody you hate with the goal of finding blackmail on them; that is totally the behavior of normal, well-adjusted individuals, right?
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Jul 23, 2018 02:38
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weird mike was one of the biggest pizzagate boosters.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:46
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Slutitution posted:Imagine just sitting there reading through thousands of tweets by somebody you hate with the goal of finding blackmail on them; that is totally the behavior of normal, well-adjusted individuals, right? I mean he's a nazi who wrote a book about becoming a better alpha male by listening to trance music.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:49
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Mike Cernovich is responsible for a pizza parlor getting shot up and the only solution to stopping him is to loudly tell him to gently caress off. I’m just sad Batista deleted his tweet calling Mike a loving Nazi, which he is.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:59
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https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveBautista/status/1021125112974618624 hosed up that the meathead wrestler moron is the only person with a sane take on this. https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveBautista/status/1021123102082707456
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Jul 23, 2018 03:01
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Dave Bautista owns and we don’t deserve his love
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Jul 23, 2018 03:07
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I dearly hope some Nazis receive a Batista Bomb before this is all over.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:10
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I wonder who he’s shading with the “cowardly distance themselves” comment. I accuse Pratt!!!
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Jul 23, 2018 03:19
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Wendell posted:I wonder who he’s shading with the “cowardly distance themselves” comment. I accuse Pratt!!! Disney?
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Jul 23, 2018 03:21
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I’m gonna be the rear end in a top hat that says it I thought the Jerkloose tweet was kind of funny
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Jul 23, 2018 03:25
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Yeah, but how big is Bautista's dick? /sinbad
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Jul 23, 2018 03:25
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Phylodox posted:Disney? But that’s the punish part.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:26
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Wendell posted:But that’s the punish part. Porque no los dos?
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Jul 23, 2018 03:27
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Wendell posted:I wonder who he’s shading with the “cowardly distance themselves” comment. I accuse Pratt!!! https://twitter.com/prattprattpratt/status/1021170389437755392 Pratt, for as old-timey as his personal politics are, appears to know which way the wind is blowing on this one.
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Jul 23, 2018 03:29
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