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I think people have trouble separating Terry Crews playing a character we all love in a movie or a TV show and Terry Crews the actor who oh yeah btw is a Conservative Christian. He probably has some not great viewpoints. Like it's terrible what happened to him and how it made him feel but you should not suddenly be like " Oh Terry Crews he shares my viewpoints". He doesn't he's very well known to be a conservative Christian. He may not be a registered Republican but he's not a liberal person at all. He goes out of his way to not officially in a public way endorse that stuff because it would be bad for his career but he has slipped up more than once over the years and said some pretty horrible poo poo. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 3, 2019 |
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Mar 3, 2019 06:28
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Terry Crews has said a lot of progressive things about toxic masculinity. Terry Crews is a victim of sexual assault, and as a black man in our current climate, brave for addressing it head-on. But Terry Crews does not have a good history with the LGBTQ community. In addition to his most recent comments, in 2018 he compared Rachel Dolezal's lunatic fuckery to transitioning by asking “Why is it considered perfectly fine to be transgender, but deemed totally unacceptable to be TRANSRACIAL?" Terry Crews is an assault survivor and should be supported on those grounds, but he is not a queer ally. At least not in his current outlook.
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Mar 3, 2019 06:55
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He shares basically the same viewpoint my cousins have. Like i disagree with his viewpoint but its not like something he invented. Its a pretty common viewpoint and people acting like its a insane thing is kind of weird. Like " Oh shocking Terry Crews Christian" has weird views on gender and homosexuals. I AM SHOCKED.
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Mar 3, 2019 07:29
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I don't think it's insane. Like I agree, if you know his background it's par for course. The problem is that there's a tendency to homogenize trauma or bigotry. Crews can be a victim and also regressive. Calling him out for the latter doesn't diminish the former.
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Mar 3, 2019 07:41
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Shaocaholica posted:Social media is going to own so many people in the facebook generation. Somehow I don't think that many people years later are going to want to be sending or receiving a video of minors committing sex acts, so you're good there. Also I think that revenge porn laws are going to be increasingly helpful in preventing videos of adults doing sexual things from being sent to potential employers, etc. I think there's more of a concern of something lovely you said on Twitter or Facebook being preserved and used against you for all time (since we're talking about Terry Crews saying something lovely on twitter), but that's why I don't use my real name on places like Twitter, or Reddit, or here, and only post banal poo poo on Facebook.
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Mar 3, 2019 21:45
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I don’t get people who aren’t famous but put their whole name on their twitter or instagram It’s like this girl I know whose email address she used for work but if you googled it, you’d find a Tumblr anime pornucopia
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Mar 4, 2019 01:21
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I use my real name because I realized that when I used a pseudonym I was more of a jerk to people, and using my real name made me feel more accountable to myself. Also I am mindful of not posting stupid poo poo.
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Mar 4, 2019 01:47
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I started to use my name because after I had a video of mine go viral, and having somewhat big writers write about my thing, I realized that no ones gonna know who the gently caress CelticPredator is. So for the sake of maybe having some kind of film career, I needed to break the anonymity a bit.
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Mar 4, 2019 01:52
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Steve Yun posted:I use my real name because I realized that when I used a pseudonym I was more of a jerk to people, and using my real name made me feel more accountable to myself. Yeah, I was a semi-public figure at my first office job when I was still in college 15 years ago (since I was running a magazine with a circulation of 10,000), so I became pretty mindful of being careful about what I said in public-facing media. I had that vetted by a consultant friend when I was running for Madison Common Council a few years ago, because I wanted to be sure I didn't have anything that would drag me down; the incumbent was well-known for being cranky and crafty when it came time for re-election. It became a moot point because I stepped out of the race pretty early due to health concerns, but I'm still glad I had the presence of mind to check.
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Mar 4, 2019 02:10
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Man some of those people that Terry Crews is interacting with on Twitter are ridiculous, dude shouldn't bother giving them the time of day. Yeah, he's not perfect, so be it.
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Mar 4, 2019 05:10
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I'm as Liberal and progressive as pretty much everyone else who posts in this thread is, but the immediate dragging or cancelling someone because they hold views you think are wrong or outdated just kind of gets tiresome. So Crews thinks that kids should have strong role models of both sexes in their life. It's not inherently a bad thing, but to hear some people tell it he's out there beating up gay people. The worst thing is that no one can just be wrong anymore. Or unsure of how they feel about something. And that's not progress. I have friends who are wonderful open people, supportive of others but who don't get being transgender and pronouns etc. It's not that they're against it or anything like that, they just don't 'get' it. Yet. And it should be OK to say you know what, I don't know how I feel about this yet without people flying off the handle.
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Mar 4, 2019 15:20
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It's a good thing that people suffer public consequences for being shitheads. This is how society changes and the Overton window shifts for the better.
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Mar 4, 2019 15:25
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like literally the only downside to people accidentally revealing who they are on social media is that the truth is kind of depressing sometimes
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Mar 4, 2019 15:29
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DrVenkman posted:I'm as Liberal and progressive as pretty much everyone else who posts in this thread is, but the immediate dragging or cancelling someone because they hold views you think are wrong or outdated just kind of gets tiresome. So Crews thinks that kids should have strong role models of both sexes in their life. It's not inherently a bad thing, but to hear some people tell it he's out there beating up gay people. Would have been cool is Crews actually said kids should have strong role models of both sexes instead of saying a kid is "malnourished" if they don't have a father in their life.
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Mar 4, 2019 15:35
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Sucrose posted:Plus there was the fact that way back in the ‘90s Anthony Rapp told Out Magazine about how Kevin Spacey had tried to have sex with him when he was 14, but they decided not to reveal Spacey’s name in the incident because it was the magazine’s policy not to out gay individuals who were still in the closet. This is mind-boggling to me. I get the 90s were different, but it's a goddamn sexual abuse allegation, how would Spacey being in the closet somehow trump that?
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Mar 4, 2019 16:00
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Equeen posted:Would have been cool is Crews actually said kids should have strong role models of both sexes instead of saying a kid is "malnourished" if they don't have a father in their life. He sort of did bring the discussion around to role models, eventually https://twitter.com/terrycrews/status/1102081004322250753 https://twitter.com/terrycrews/status/1101911353155940357 ... but at times he was also pretty dismissive about t his words being (accidentally) hurtful to a lot of people https://twitter.com/terrycrews/status/1102082223442923522 In the end he agreed that he'd spoken badly and deleted the tweet https://twitter.com/terrycrews/status/1102302150225358848 ... but not before trying to play the race card https://twitter.com/terrycrews/status/1102295696126894080 It was a LONG conversation that stretched over quite a few days. I haven't read every single tweet in the entire back-n-forth but it sounds like he really did engage in an actual dialogue with many people and realised that his original soundbyte statement on the issue wasn't as black and white as he'd thought.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:03
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Crackbone posted:This is mind-boggling to me. I get the 90s were different, but it's a goddamn sexual abuse allegation, how would Spacey being in the closet somehow trump that? I guess it's hard to remember that the 90s weren't all that enlightened. Gay-panic jokes were still allowed in the mainstream and coming out was seen as damaging to someone's career. I'm sure someone will correct me but the only reason George Michael came out when he did was because his hand was forced because he was caught in public (though again, it was pretty much an open secret). I mean Elton John didn't really come out until 1988 (though he admitted to being bisexual, he got married in the early 80s) and there's still men now who won't do it. Lest we forget Spacey himself who denied it for years and again only did it as a late ploy for sympathy. I have no doubt that if these allegations didn't come out he'd still be in the closet. Though it's fair to say that what that magazine did was bullshit, I feel like there's no circumstances in which they would've published his name, regardless of the decade (ok, these days they mightve risked it). This is the same thing that led to Gawkers downfall when they outed Peter Theil.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:32
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Crackbone posted:This is mind-boggling to me. I get the 90s were different, but it's a goddamn sexual abuse allegation, how would Spacey being in the closet somehow trump that? I'm not sure if the timing lines up, but in the 90s Tom Cruise successfully sued the National Enquirer for a lot of money for saying he was gay, so a lawsuit might have been part of the concern. Also, sadly, having sex with teenagers used to not be thought of as that big of a deal. Rob Lowe has a sex tape that'd be a felony if you watched it.
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Mar 4, 2019 17:07
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Skwirl posted:Also, sadly, having sex with teenagers used to not be thought of as that big of a deal. Rob Lowe has a sex tape that'd be a felony if you watched it. I wouldn’t say that, it killed his career for over a decade. And even then Sorkin got a lot of poo poo for casting him in West Wing, and even played a part in shifting the character he was cast as out of the main character spotlight.
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Mar 4, 2019 17:35
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Crews pulling the race card in that context is particularly disappointing because it’s essentially bemoaning the censorship of marginalized people to... effectively censor other marginalized people in a conversation. It’s the verbal equivalent of slamming the door behind you as you walk into another room. I think Crews does a lot of good in terms of engaging with toxic masculinity. And he should be commended for his bravery in confronting his sexual assault on a public stage. But he’s in the wrong on this one, and doesn’t seem particularly interested in becoming enlightened on the subject of lgbtq issues.
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Mar 4, 2019 17:36
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Leaving Neverland is brutal. I feel like anyone who buys into the "Jackson never grew up" bullshit needs to watch it. It really demolishes the bizarre double standard that a lot of people use with Jackson. DrVenkman posted:I guess it's hard to remember that the 90s weren't all that enlightened.
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Mar 4, 2019 21:46
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I think the crews tweets are a hard one to comment on because in America a lot of black kids grow up without a dad and I can definitely see how you could get passionate about that as an issue when incarceration, drugs and crime are such big issues in urban America among black males. Not saying he’s right but to reduce it to “he hates gay couples” is actually the lovely take here, not him.
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Mar 4, 2019 22:00
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Robert Kraft and the debate over sex trafficking https://news.yahoo.com/robert-kraft-debate-sex-trafficking-203517978.html Aaliyah's mom says R. Kelly's former backup singer is 'lying' about sex allegations https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/aaliyahs-mom-says-r-kellys-former-backup-singer-lying-sex-allegations-190620131.html Hugh Hefner dumped casket of sex tapes into the sea https://pagesix.com/2018/11/23/hugh-hefner-dumped-casket-of-sex-tapes-into-the-sea/ BBC Radio 2 drops Michael Jackson's music from its playlists following new child sex abuse claims https://en.mogaznews.com/World-News/1141211/BBC-Radio-2-drops-Michael-Jackson-songs-from-the-airwaves-after-child-sex-.html
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Mar 4, 2019 22:16
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Zogo posted:Hugh Hefner dumped casket of sex tapes into the sea I smell a National Treasure sequel.
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Mar 4, 2019 22:24
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teacup posted:I think the crews tweets are a hard one to comment on because in America a lot of black kids grow up without a dad and I can definitely see how you could get passionate about that as an issue when incarceration, drugs and crime are such big issues in urban America among black males. Not saying he’s right but to reduce it to “he hates gay couples” is actually the lovely take here, not him. Right, and people are pointing out that that's just Baptist Conservatism.
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Mar 4, 2019 22:40
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Has anyone talked about the Michael Jackson Finding Neverland documentary on HBO yet? I started watching it last night but fell asleep. I've been so busy so I haven't looked much into it but the word on twitter is a bit mixed on my feed.
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Mar 4, 2019 22:51
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The criticism of the film is mostly being hit in terms of being "one sided." But unless there is evidence that: (A) Two men independently crafted very parallel stories about their abuse with narratives occurring through events that are collaborated by multiple family members (B) The two men and their families conspired to lie about their abuse (C) The director Dan Reed, a bit of a TV and documentary journeyman, help created an elaborate hoax between multiple people It's really hard to question the reality that Michael Jackson did likely rape children in which case, there really isn't another side.
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Mar 4, 2019 23:30
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I haven't been able to see the documentary yet, but I've read descriptions of its content. What strikes me is that both of these men's mothers are still alive, and are interviewed for the documentary along with other members of their family, and are anguished about the fact that they failed to see the red flags that should have led them to keep their sons the hell away from Jackson. Which to me, means that either the whole of both families are in on the lie, or they're telling the truth, because I just cannot possibly imagine anyone, much less two different people, putting their still-living parents through the emotional grief of knowing that they failed to protect their child from being molested if it was all a lie cooked up by Robson and Safechuck. Nobody would do that to their mothers even for huge amounts of money. Either the whole families are in on the lie, or they're telling the truth. And the latter seems a hell of lot more likely.
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Mar 5, 2019 03:07
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Sucrose posted:I just cannot possibly imagine anyone, much less two different people, putting their still-living parents through the emotional grief of knowing that they failed to protect their child from being molested if it was all a lie cooked up by Robson and Safechuck. Nobody would do that to their mothers even for huge amounts of money. Either the whole families are in on the lie, or they're telling the truth. And the latter seems a hell of lot more likely. I have bad news for you about this world.
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Mar 5, 2019 04:15
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Steve Yun posted:I have bad news for you about this world. how are you this pessimistic yet still skeptical of a rich and powerful person abusing their power
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Mar 5, 2019 06:14
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Cease to Hope posted:how are you this pessimistic yet still skeptical of a rich and powerful person abusing their power This is an incorrect assumption you’re making.
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Mar 5, 2019 06:16
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Just watched it. Pretty powerful stuff. Hearing the story these two and their families say is pretty heart breaking though. poo poo is hosed up and it reminded me of that kidnapped in plain sight doc
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Mar 5, 2019 06:34
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Leaving Neverland was all kinds of unbelievably heartbreaking. I've only watched part of the second half - it got way way way too upsetting and hitting too close to home for me when it started to do deal with adult repercussions. I dunno why, but as someone who was also sexually abused as a boy - and incidentally I also was a tremendously big Michael Jackson fan back then, and would dress up like him and dance like him and was REALLY into it and won local dance competitions of my own in the very early '90s. So saying that this documentary "hit close to home" doesn't really even begin to cut it. It was frankly almost *too* upsetting to watch for those reasons, and my feelings about everything were deeply conflicted. i have to say, though I didn't want to approach the film from a point of questioning the veracity of their stories... I really don't know how truthful Wade Robson and co. were, particularly him and his mother. I want to approach it gently because I think it's very likely that there was abuse, but something about Robson's attitude, his demeanor, the way he shared the stories, just my general intuitive feeling about him... I felt like he was sort of boldly trying to embellish, or something. He seemed to be putting on some sort of affectation, for some sort of reason. I just... it felt like he was trying to convince me, in a weird way. James Safechuck, on the other hand? I found him to be extremely credible, and it was really his story that I believe, and his face and eyes and shaking hands that I found haunting, and deeply affecting. I didn't feel like he was trying to convince anyone of anything, or trying to prove anything. There was... a certain vulnerability and rawness both about his story, as told by him and his mother, and in his demeanor in general. It's all right there in his eyes, and when he looks away. It's clear that he was so deeply damaged by what happened to him, it was just... beyond loving heartbreaking, to see. In the context of this film, I don't even want to get into judging Michael Jackson and looking at why he is what he is and did he what he did. That should, frankly, be a separate conversation for a separate documentary. This is a film about two men, and the stories they have to tell. It has good points and bad points, but it's ultimately about how trauma and sexual abuse ravages and destroys lives. I mean, I know Michael Jackson and his story will ultimately overshadow everything. And it's also about the unique veil of silence that surrounds men who suffer from these crimes as children. Not only are you fundamentally violated and traumatized, but it so fundamentally fucks with your sense of personal identity because of masculinity standards and the stigma of homosexuality... it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight or whatever either, it fucks everything up, inevitably. I just hope people keep this film about what it should be about. fake edit: And you know, something that I love about this film, is that it's essentially utilizing Michael Jackson's fame to increase awareness and further the conversation of the sexual abuse of boys and how it causes PTSD and how it loving breaks so many people, how utterly destructive it is to a human being. I haven't seen most of the second half yet, but I am assuming it goes into this, it seemed to be headed in that direction.
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Mar 5, 2019 17:59
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Timeless Appeal posted:The criticism of the film is mostly being hit in terms of being "one sided." The lengths people have gone to deny this stuff borders on conspiracy theory and complete disassociation from reality. Everyone agrees that he slept in the same room as children, actively tried to separate them from their parents, and gave them wine. Then there’s those insane faxes and the jewelry. They accept all this obvious grooming as fact but won’t accept the obvious conclusion.
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Mar 5, 2019 19:14
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Drunkboxer posted:The lengths people have gone to deny this stuff borders on conspiracy theory and complete disassociation from reality. Everyone agrees that he slept in the same room as children, actively tried to separate them from their parents, and gave them wine. Then there’s those insane faxes and the jewelry. They accept all this obvious grooming as fact but won’t accept the obvious conclusion. I mean, come on dude. Man in the Mirror is such a good song... this is sarcasm in case anyone can't tell
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Mar 5, 2019 19:16
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Rhyno posted:I mean, come on dude. Man in the Mirror is such a good song... I think he peaked at Thriller, honestly.  I only got through part 1 of the doc, it bummed me out too much to keep watching.
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Mar 5, 2019 19:25
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Drunkboxer posted:I think he peaked at Thriller, honestly. He was a lovely person but Remember the Time was good stuff.
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Mar 5, 2019 19:32
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Rhyno posted:He was a lovely person but Remember the Time was good stuff. The cast of the music video was pretty star-studded, I’ll give you that... I guess he might have been innocent after all.
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Mar 5, 2019 19:53
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i got an hour in and had to take a break and then was like holy poo poo there's still three hours left
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Mar 5, 2019 22:28
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I've certainly defended (that feels like the wrong word to use but) Jackson here, but I've always been very much on the fence about him. I've always thought that it's very possible he did abuse these boys, and there is no excuse for that, even if he's a victim of a hosed up childhood himself. This documentary sounds like something that will finally push me over the edge to just accepting that he almost definitely abused children, and that's why I haven't been able to really bring myself to watch it yet. That, and it sounds harrowing in general. In general I think it's important for people to be able to separate Jackson being an abuser from Jackson being a victim. His being a victim may have led to him abusing those boys, but it also may not have. It doesn't change the fact he ruined people's lives. But him ruining people's lives doesn't mean you can't feel sympathy for his life also having likely been ruined at a very young age. It sucks. I'm coming to terms with the fact I will always love Jackson and his music, and always hate the many boundaries he shouldn't have crossed and then loving did anyway e: and hate him for it
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Mar 5, 2019 22:40
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