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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Super Fan posted:

*Louis

God drat the Louis CK thing is disheartening. He's one of the best standups working today. Unapologetic biting social satire.

He should probably consider being somewhat apologetic at this point.

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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


The pathetic, self-loathing desperation pervading all of those accounts of Louis CK really illustrates how emotionally stunted and needy these men are. His daughters are 15 and 12, it's difficult to imagine how they're processing this.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


muscles like this! posted:

Terry Crews has officially reported his groping incident to the LAPD. It eventually came out that the man responsible was Adam Venit, a top level executive at WME, Terry's talent agency. Venit has been placed on leave pending an investigation and Crews has left WME.

I'm curious as to the thought process behind sexually assaulting a man who could tear your arms off with minimal effort.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


precision posted:

Yeah, I was just making sure I hadn't missed anything.

It is remarkably difficult to figure out how you're supposed to "come forward" with information if you don't have a lawyer or any money to hire one and are not a famous person. A friend of mine wants to do so but has no idea how.

At this point contacting a newspaper like the NY Times is feasible. A few months ago it probably would have been ignored, less so now.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Oh, my.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

How long now until people start preemptively coming forward to admit their crimes so as to avoid some of the backlash?

Not happening. Nobody sees themselves as a villain.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


esperterra posted:

I agree with Cranston 100%, tbh. If any of these people are willing to put in the real work to rehabilitate themselves, then they should be forgiven. Their careers will never be the same again, but maybe they can still be involved in the work they love.

That said, I doubt Weinstein or Spacey will put in that effort.

e: also yeah maybe not the best timing while Hollywood is still a tire fire of accusations and such coming to light

How would you feel if someone who raped you was reinstalled into a position in power in your industry because they went to therapy and wrote a mea culpa?

Forgiveness is one thing, and is something people can decide on an individual basis. But these abusers should absolutely not be working in movies again.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Basebf555 posted:

See my post above. There's no all powerful ruler of Hollywood that will just declare that Weinstein and the rest can't work in movies again. It's up to society to decide that, if the industry senses that we're ok with it, they will work again, straight up.

"Society" making a decision that would invalidate and re-traumatize their victims would still be wrong. Society had previously made a collective decision that sexual assault is not a big deal and if you accuse a powerful man of it your career is over, and that was wrong too -- not going along with societal consensus requires leadership and integrity, which we generally see as virtues.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Their road to "real growth" doesn't mean poo poo to someone who goes to see a movie and the guy who once cornered them in a room while jerking off is up there on the big screen. Or who has to drop out of a production because the now-forgiven person will be working on it.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Basebf555 posted:

Well I definitely would say that if I were someone out there considering hiring someone like a Louis CK, in addition to the years of work I'd want to see him out there doing first(outreach to victims, speaking to raise awareness, etc.), I would also want to see that he was forgiven by the women he hurt directly. Which is up to them, that's something for them to decide personally whether they choose to forgive.

But I agree, I don't think it would be right to put a past victimizer into a production unless first and foremost the victim has decided to forgive. But that does happen, we've seen it happen many times. People are resilient and forgiveness is a choice that a lot of victims find to be cathartic.

There are a lot of people who are going to prefer to keep their history being attacked private and they sure as hell shouldn't be put in a situation where they have to either disclose or drop out of a production.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Uncle Boogeyman posted:

I know, I was mostly talking about guys like Spacey and Weinstein

Basically if Spacey seems contrite AND can go 30 years without molesting anyone, then maybe I'll be okay with him dragging his 90-year-old rear end out of retirement for his big comeback role.

And how would it feel to be someone who Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted 30 years ago, seeing him get a big comeback role as an old man and the accompanying redemption narrative? Going to a movie or watching TV and seeing him in a preview?

It's insane the degree to which people will try to accommodate abusers while ignoring their victims.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Uncle Boogeyman posted:

There's a difference between being able to live your life and getting back the old job that you used to leverage your position to abuse people

This.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...



This is so goddamn creepy.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...



These stories are so fuckin' creepy and gross.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


GonSmithe posted:

Bourdain has also not worked in a kitchen for the last 20 years.

And he does BJJ! So basically, if you want to age gracefully, work out.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


I've lived in NYC basically my whole life and never ate at a Batali restaurant, so I guess I am Extremely Woke

...unless getting gelato at Eataly a few times counts in which case I am a Huge Piece Of poo poo

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Is Eataly a Batali thing? I had no idea.

The Eataly brand isn't his, but his restaurant group owns the one in Flatiron.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


DC Murderverse posted:

gently caress roman polanski

bad advice, it would seem

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


21 Muns posted:

If this isn't a bullshit post facto excuse, then that just means that this falls on his handlers for not keeping him somewhere where he can't harm himself or others.

This is honestly part of the job when you're working with geriatrics. When someone has dementia, their judgement and inhibition can be seriously impaired, while aggression and impulsiveness increase. You see people be kind and thoughtful one minute, and then do and say the most vile things you can think of the next. It's not because they believe those things or would even think of doing them if they weren't impaired, it's just that their brains are literally breaking down and dying. Work in an Alzheimer's ward of a hospital long enough and you will see people masturbate in front of you, smear feces on you or on themselves, and have you and your coworkers be called every insult, epithet, and racial slur imaginable. It's not because the patients are deviants or bad people.

You talk about his "handlers"; what exactly do you think someone's nurses and home care attendants are? Obviously those people should get as much professional support as possible and nobody has to work in a situation that makes them feel unsafe, but if a family has a member who has dementia and whose behavior is becoming sexually aggressive, the solution isn't to get less caretaking help.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jan 10, 2018

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


ihatepants posted:

Sexual abuse is unacceptable, but when the only source is the Daily Mail, you don't even need to do any critical thinking to cast doubt on the story. They're even more well known than Breitbart for just outright making poo poo up over the years and spreading misinformation. Like the time they blamed autism on the fact that women have started to work and they argued that women should quit their jobs because of it.

I Believe All Newspapers

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


I could believe that Michael Douglas is basically his character from Basic Instinct, except an actor instead of a cop.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Yeah, I'm not quite following the argument that it's Mark Wahlberg's responsibility to help the studio recoup costs after hiring a sex monster.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Snowman_McK posted:

Because it was an extra shoot positioned largely as a symbolic statement against abuse in Hollywood. A symbolic statement that Wahlberg insisted on being paid to make because he's a loving sociopath.

He's also the highest paid actor in Hollywood.

Symbolic statement my rear end. They couldn't release the film with Spacey as a part of the main cast. Don't treat PR as canon.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


muscles like this! posted:

What about the anonymous reports that Wahlberg used his contract's "co-star approval" clause to say that he wouldn't approve the replacement unless they paid him?

Good for him. Remember, every dollar that isn't going to cast and crew is going towards studio profits. He's not stealing candy from children here.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


21 Muns posted:

Maybe you're just struggling with the realization that you're a lovely person?

This isn't helpful.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


That is...not a good look.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Dr. S.O. Feelgood posted:

I don't know what the hell the writer was thinking doing this. I think a lot of the criticism towards the story is pretty bullshit, but responding to someone by insulting their physical appearance is basically never a good idea. There are plenty of legitimate things she could've said, but "ur old and have bad hair" just makes her look like an rear end in a top hat.

And talking about retweets and "relevance". Not good.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Detective No. 27 posted:

Not Hollywood per se, but WWE Superstar Enzo Amore has been dropped from the company amidst rape charges.

Oddly enough it happened here in Phoenix so I probably saw him the night it happened. :tinfoil:

My name is Enzo Amore and I'm a certified G, and a bona fide rapist

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Some people are flawed. In fact, sometimes their flaws are a part of why they create interesting art!

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


I'd be sorta disappointed if it turned out a 70's giallo director wasn't some kind of huge creep

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Honest Thief posted:

Yahtzee's the dude who ranted a lot about how love is just chemicals in your brain and that's always a red flag.

Every emotion is just chemicals in your brain, that's how neurotransmitters work

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


chitoryu12 posted:

This is actually something I have a bit of personal experience with due to my ex-fiancee, and the issue of gray areas of consent is something being talked about right now so it's a pretty appropriate place.

I'm sort of on the periphery of the BDSM community because even though it's not really my thing, she was extremely into it, to the extent of wanting play that would leave bruises and cuts. One of the factors behind our breakup was my extreme discomfort with it and her inability to find sexual satisfaction without being made to cry from pain and abuse. Along with not wanting to really do harmful things to the woman I was going to marry and have kids with even if she said it was okay, I was also uncomfortable with it because I knew that she had an extremely abusive childhood that likely has some contributing factor to her mental illnesses (which was another driving factor of our breakup). While I don't really practice any form of BDSM, a number of my peers do and so I tend to stay clued into the subculture.

A big topic in the discussion on William Francis right now is that he spoke to the police and avoided arrest because he kept meticulous records of consent being given to him. However, virtually all of the people he was doing this to were mentally ill. Firsthand accounts from his victims posted on that blog usually bring up suffering from depression and bipolar disorder, and the screenshots of conversations with his "whores" show them in an extremely dependent relationship where they crave affection from him even if this means being seriously hurt. Some of them also began to feel coerced into giving consent because he was so violent and refused to use safe words, making them feel like they had no way to actually end the session. According to one, he coerced them into performing sexual acts and camming for money that he could make; she claims that his screen printing business was just a cover for the money he made from the abuse.

Something that blog brings up repeatedly is that mentally ill people should not be able to consent to BDSM, and I can definitely see why after the relationship with my ex. While she denied it when I asked, the kind of abuse she wanted is so disturbingly similar to the abuse she suffered at the hands of her parents and their friends that the desire for such extremes feels like an unhealthy coping mechanism. She had also displayed desires to self-harm, such as stabbing herself with pins, which pain from BDSM would likely appease. From what I've learned after our breakup, she now lives in a 24/7 daddy/little relationship with the man she asked to have as her separate boyfriend after our marriage. The weird sex stuff is now her entire life.

There's a good argument to be made that what Will did isn't as consensual as he claims, as the girls were driven to seek the beatings as a form of self-harm and find validation in having a "master" owning them. While they technically gave consent, their state of mind was altered by their mental illness and he intentionally took advantage of their unhealthy desires and past trauma to create a harem of young girls that he could freely hurt.

I think there the question becomes "How mentally ill do you have to be before you can no longer give consent to this?" and "What can you not give consent to? Just BDSM, or sex in general?"

Taking advantage of someone because they're depressed or manic or have trauma isn't really a consent issue. It's still, like, bad and wrong, obviously -- but it's also really problematic to say that people shouldn't be allowed to have certain kinds of sex if they have X or Y mental health diagnosis. If someone is psychotic, has dementia/delirium, is intoxicated, or has something else going on where reality testing is impaired, then it becomes a consent issue.

"Coercion" gets misused a whole lot as well. Promising to give someone a job if they have sex with you is unethical, but it isn't coercion; threatening to fire them if they don't have sex with you is.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...



It's just like I've always said: "If a 50-year-old man has a Skrillex haircut, he's probably a rapist."

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I find it hard to take that seriously, that's SOP for the internet-at-large. To flip that around, whenever people get deeply concerned about concern trolling or whatnot from The Hordes (as distinct from obviously malicious and actionable behavior like stalking, SWATting, etc), what's the remedy for that?

Logging off.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


AlternateAccount posted:

So then... what's the statute of limitations on saying that sort of poo poo? If he'd made those tweets today, people would call for his head, sure. How much time has to pass?

Exactly 1267 days.

I wonder when celebrities will realize that long, defensive apologies do them absolutely no favors. "These were bad jokes and I shouldn't have made them, I'm sorry" would have served Gunn so much better than what he posted.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Safeword posted:

Why should rape and molestation jokes be allowed on a public platform, though? Beyond the dubious "free speech" qualities, what does acceptance of that material give anyone?

For a start, humor can be a way for survivors of rape or molestation to cope with or take ownership of their experiences.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


-Blackadder- posted:

Regardless of where you fall on the larger movement, seeing a piece of poo poo like Harvey Weinstein in cuffs is one of the greatest comeuppance moments.

It get's lost amid the juicier sex scandal threads but Hollywood has since it's inception been one of the most corrupt, power mad, abusive towns on the entire planet. Weinstein was the poster boy for the belligerent, always screaming, bullying boss who used his position to endlessly torture and abuse anyone and everyone around him. The guy was basically the real life version of Dark Timeline Biff.

I think I mentioned it before, but it's worth saying again, if you've never seen the movie Swimming with Sharks go watch it, it's Hollywood's dirty little secret that that movie basically a documentary on how Hollywood bosses treat their subordinates and they get away with it, because everybody knows everybody else and therefore it's very easy to find yourself blacklisted from their little club if you ever speak out.

I love mean little movies like this. It's practically it's own genre, though I'm not sure what you'd call it. Friedkin-likes? Cinema du misanthropie?

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Aug 9, 2018

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


When you think about it, a 19-year-old dating a man with a mental age of 14 is highly problematic.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


AlternateAccount posted:

Finding out that you left your wife/kid to hook up with this woman who then turns out to, assuming this is all true, be a bit of a real creepo could be really destructive to your psyche.

Let's not go down this road.

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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...



Just a reminder that Robin Wright decided to marry Sean Penn.

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