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teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

At what point should we be careful about random rumours? Like RDJ probably has had his fair share of female attention but plenty of men get through life having fame and money and power and NOT being a horrible creep or rapist. I’m not #notallmen here, simply saying maybe let’s not say “ha, surely this guy is a creep” with legit nothing, or something unrelated in their past.

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teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

It’s also to prevent the government sending a citizen away to be murdered by another state. Take Polanski out of the situation and remember America is one of the few western nations on earth still with this law.

In australia we have a similar law and the federal police here helped tipped off the Indonesians that some Australians were smuggling drugs into Indonesia. They ended up being caught with Australian intel in Indonesia and ended up being executed.

Quite rightly people were pretty pissed off that the policy of not letting that happen (ie catch them in Australia) wasn’t followed. I wouldn’t trust America not to flip and say “oh now he can be tried for the death penalty” I mean America executes children in some states so it’s understandable to have these laws in place.

Either way it’s a bit rich for Americans to accuse the French of supporting Polanski. Didn’t you guys give him an Oscar ten years or so back and have your elite stand up and give him a standing ovation? Isn’t woody Allen a national treasure? Isn’t trump your president?

Edit: what I’m trying to say is perhaps the industry and the patriarchy cross country lines

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

gently caress off with saying it's simple. Polanski is a monster but many people still believe the death penalty is a huge humans rights violation. France has a policy that says it won't extradite to places with it as a way of protesting a huge human rights violation. If it was so simple why doesn't California change their law- if they did then he could be extradited. What a damning indictment on California that they choose to keep the ability to murder citizens over jailing a child rapist.

Sarcasm of course but it's your argument so whatevs

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Patrovsky posted:

Even without taking any of the creepy stuff into account, a thirty-five year old guy taking a twenty-three year old out already seems like a bit of a power imbalance. Twelve years is a hell of an age difference when you're in your early twenties.

Cool so is this part of the movement now too?

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

It's also not strictly about not believing women. I believe this woman. Separately, I believe babe.net seems dumb and hurt the cause.

I believe what Aziz did was not assault. Miscommunication at worst even reading only the babe.net post. Of course we can't get the other side at this point because it'd be PR suicide to actually defend himself.

Separately to that there are a lot of dumb arguments going around saying that due to his high power and fame he had a power imbalance (he has no control over her and this argument kinda spins out, if you've got a Netflix show you're powerful now?) or his age from a few posts ago? Seriously? A woman in her 20s can't just leave if she feels uncomfortable?

When the argument is coming down to "non verbal communication" and no other accusers have confirmed behaviour (other than drive bys on twitter ) then you don't have a slam dunk story on which you can proclaim to the masses as absolute proof that aziz is part of the problem etc. I don't even think it'll derail the cause as surely there are more obvious cases still to come that will take the news cycle anyway but that still doesn't give this a pass.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

How so? They are reinforcing the perception that the story didn't matter to them, the advertising did.

Yeah, also treating your story about what has now become a social movement as a "scoop" furthers the bullshit of people saying witch hunt or women make it up

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Rose, damaged or not, can’t be excused for her transphobic opinions and also should really be aware of someone she has publicly put on blast killing themselves and take some ownership.

Just like the horrible people “defending” themselves as saying it was part of how they grew up, saying she is damaged does not excuse it. Words still matter.

I hate to pick on “outrage culture” as outrage has actually gotten good work done but I have wondered lately- where is a logical end point with this poo poo? Like people use both sides of it. Progressives demanding complete ideological purity for their movements. Men being allies speak up- they are mansplaining, they don’t talk- typical silence from men. Trans men and women being shut out of respective gay/straight groups as they are “different” anyway, gay men continuing horrible patriarchal views in gay rights movements, trans women being told they aren’t victims because they aren’t “real”women by feminist groups.

It just seems that everyone is tainted by something and even if you were some divine being of pure social justice it won’t matter as people so passionately believe one thing or another despite both claiming to be progressive on a movement and still holding completely contrary views.

I guess rose sadly personified that as well. Hypocrite in terms of fighting for justice while being transphobic, and completely attacking anyone who even slightly disagrees or even questions her. Like I get slamming down on people who are anti the movement but why attack people who are at least trying??

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

chitoryu12 posted:

Knowing Robin Williams, his behavior was probably non-sexual (at least in his mind) and done to everyone in his path regardless of gender or sexuality.

Can we stop this random assuming that just because someone looks nice or mean or their persona was such that we just attach this poo poo into them? Same goes for people going “ohhh if “nice guy actor” is a rapist I’ll be so annoyed!!”

Like if he groped someone (not saying he did) he groped someone and that’s not ok

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Come on seriously, it’s not like we are saying he should be brought back and then executed. At the risk of sounding like Matt Damon there are levels to this. If this was the only time this happened and it was never “worse” than this then a “robin Williams shouldn’t have done this and it’s not ok to excuse it” and then be on your way.

But “his movies made me feel like he’s a nice man” and “old woman excuses poo poo she shouldn’t” doesn’t mean we should forget what it is or was either.


I mean listen to yourselves. “It was the 70s, he was on drugs, he did it to everyone! He’s a goofball!”

That poo poo rightfully should not fly and it wouldn’t if it happened today (hopefully)

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Guys is this really the problem we should be debating? Like I get it’s a problem for that woman but is this an epidemic level thing that needs addressing?

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I kind of agree some language is a bit wrong but it’s splitting hairs a bit anyway and leads to things like whoopi goldbergs “rape rape” comments.

For example when I was younger and first heard of what “statuatory rape” was I thought it was ridiculous, the typical “what if it was a 17 year old who really wanted it etc” that’s not “rape”, however as a society we have decided that it is wrong and that’s the word we are using.

Same with coercion / forced / etc. like you don’t literally need to hold a woman down with a knife or threaten physical harm for it to be these things / harmful to them.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I’m not even trying to “I CANT SAY THIS AS A MAN” but as a man I just recognise how incredibly tone deaf it would be for me to say “hey lesbians bash women too!!!”

Its probably just better for everyone for woman to stand up and bring that to light if those rates are true.

It is interesting though I always just figured the violence rates were heavily skewed towards men (whether hetero or homosexual) being the perpetrators. Is there a big difference between domestic violence rates in men on women in relationships vs. men on men in relationships? Do women secretly want to be as lovely as men but only feel able to if they can physically overpower their partner, thus it comes out in lesbian relationships?

People are the worst

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

esperterra posted:

fwiw I am a lesbian.

From what I rememember last time I was a bit more well read on it, rates were highest in bisexual women, then lesbians, then gay men, with het men would theoretically somewhere after or equal to lesbians in that.

It's really hard to nail down tho as women are less likely to speak out about it, even less so than women in abusive hetero relationships. Men are also less likely to speak out about being abused by a woman as well so a lot of the stats and knowledge for abuse done by non hetero men for stuff like this aren't as accurate as one might want.

When not on my phone I can peep some more specific stuff, I'm going off memory from a while back atm.

Domestic abuse sucks and I wish we lived in a society where all genders and orientations were comfortable speaking out about it.

e: oh hey there's a whole wiki page just for abuse in lesbian relationships lmao

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships

not sure how up to date any of these sources are. and diff ones will have diff results ofc

Yeah I gotta admit in general the more this stuff comes out (me too / times up / not just Hollywood stuff) the more I’m realising that people are poo poo and we don’t talk enough about it. Even during the original me too stuff my wife talked about how she was grabbed at a club when she was younger, I knew her at that time and we are married and I had no idea. My sister as well, like I was just clueless. And id like to think I care about this stuff. It needs to be like a huge cultural change in how we talk about it

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Where you're coming from isn't entirely unreasonable, however:

Play this out. Honestly, what should happen to him and explain how it will make things better.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

LesterGroans posted:

What has happened to him?

I’m not saying it should or shouldn’t and I’m not lamenting the downfall of his career when it hasn’t happened. I get what you’re saying (last week people saying poor Cavill when nothing had/ will happen to him)

He made edgy jokes that he apologised for then and wrote stupid sexist stuff. It’s since resurfaced and he said he doesn’t agree with it and is a different person. So like literally what should he do?

I get putting someone away / put them in Hollywood jail if he actually victimised someone in anyway way but just being a jerk then saying sorry then someone years later says hey you were a jerk and you shoulda known better and you saying yeah I should have I’m different now... where does that go??

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

So people agreeing with gunns firing support everyone who was on a movie like the aristocrats being fired from their respective jobs right?

gently caress it, Gilbert gottfried- let’s go back and re-record his Aladdin role as well?

This just feels so stupid.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

I've always kind of wondered about the Singer stuff. It's really genuinely odd how not one thing has stuck to him, despite people coming at him with accusations for like 75% of his career.

Devils advocate, how many of these accusations have come out after he’s had boatloads of money and influence as a directors / producer? Because it’s not that odd that a rich person with power in the industry has had things mysteriously not stick to him

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I’d be careful about holding up America’s standards on sexual assault cases and treatment of women while criticising others. Stones in glass houses and all.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Slutitution posted:

Crimes aside, Polanksi's ability to avoid the reach of U.S. officials 40+ years later and counting is pretty gangster.

Step one- move to france
Step two- don’t go to a country with extradition to USA

Results obtained- not gangster

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

It’s almost like everywhere is awful and people are poo poo. Everyone is anti harassment/rape/assault until it was someone they knew, then suddenly it’s “you don’t know the full story she was begging for it and now his life is over”

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

The parkland thing was just so mean spirited too. Have offensive, shocking humour but I mean you are picking out real life high profile children with names who survived one of their classmates murdering a bunch of their other classmates. Even in a generalised “haha shooting victims” joke you aren’t getting specific

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Regardless of Louis being a creepy sex pest who tried to ruin women’s careers who told the truth about him, like he’s a huge comedian. Doing “secret” gigs? Of course they’re gonna get loving taped. Even without the notoriety of his “comeback”

He was happy with all the money and power he got from fake, and heroically used it to jack off in front of unwilling women. Now suddenly the one thing fame shouldn’t touch is the sanctity of him workshopping school shooting victim jokes? gently caress off.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I think the thing is like if some local man turns out to be a pedophile and then you ask like his brother who isn’t a public figure then hey it’s not fair to expect a perfect response as it’s an emotional issue.

But public figures... well it’s still an emotional issue but they are all happy to reap the benefits of media interviews with their new movies, so I figure it’s fair game when you associate with people like that that you can be asked about it.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Re: celeb chat.

Actors used to be the big ones, you’d see a movie with that actor. If you found out that actor hit his wife then you wouldn’t see the movie because he is bad not because the movie is bad.

These days actors, writers, producers, directors etc are all part of the celebrity. They give interviews, they do specials for the DVD, they are active on social media. They are in some cases big parts of the product so to speak.

And more than ever this product is not just the movie or show or CD. You aren’t buying Taylor if Ariana’s latest album, you’re buying part of their life drama. You aren’t just watching avengers, you’re seeing the culmination of all those fun wacky actors and crew and others talking about making the movie, about writing it, you’re seeing Tom Hollande joking with Benedict cumberbatch oh now they are together in the movie for real how exciting!

Actors and writers and directors all get a pass for using their life stories (see any semi autobiographical story but also like Robert Downey jr and iron man for example) and their friendships (oceans series, the various frat/rat/SNL style “crews”) and other things as big reasons to buy their tickets or what have you. They also now use social media. And also use their association with good causes (either outside the movie if the actor is charitable like Jolie or a big political activist like Clooney , or promoting black panther so heavily in the “historic” black film kinda way) to promote the film.


So I ask you- in this day and age when people and studios use so much to connect us to their product in terms of personality, social media, etc can we not also go “hang on- you want us to love you as a person and what you do in your personal life... but also now you’ve said it was unfair to ask you about your friend who sexually assaulted women?”

I don’t buy that for a second. Bullshit. They want us to love them so unconditionally but then ignore it when they gently caress up? You can’t have it both ways.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

So let me get this straight every cursory reports and rumours of behaviour = that star canceled

But MJ is immune to this completely and was just misunderstood

I mean he made good music but even that I reckons overrated, and certainly not enough to make up for abuse allegations so easily.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I mean with Aziz as well it’s one person not several so already it’s a bonus in that you can actually buy that he’s not some monster, even by the woman’s own admission it was consensual just she didn’t feel good about it and he wasn’t working with her so it’s not some kind of horrific abuse of power situation. Then roll in the fact that he actually apologised to her straight away when she texted him, and also that the fact that while you should always respect the victim and not just say they are lying in this kinda situation where it’s only one person (not like several victims backing it up with the same pattern or story each time) there is room for some he said / she said.

I thought aziz initially came out against PC culture or something and it really soured me on it if his response was going there. Maybe I’m misremembering but at least this is a decent step.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Basebf555 posted:

I appreciated it just based on production design alone, I was very impressed by how the animated environments and costumes were reproduced in live-action.

I thought it was nice looking but uninspired and boring, but Lindsay Ellis had a great read on it on YouTube talking about how it’s trying to answer all of the bad faith criticisms of the animated film and fails badly. Good watch.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Yeah surely some of these laws are there for the courts to have some wiggle room to scale up or down when needed.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

I think the crews tweets are a hard one to comment on because in America a lot of black kids grow up without a dad and I can definitely see how you could get passionate about that as an issue when incarceration, drugs and crime are such big issues in urban America among black males. Not saying he’s right but to reduce it to “he hates gay couples” is actually the lovely take here, not him.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Not doubting the documentary. I’ve always thought MJs behaviour was suspect and it was weird people accepted it.

But what about these specific allegations has changed peoples perceptions to believe them this time?

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

K. Waste posted:

I'm still waiting for someone to present a coherent explanation of why it's more likely that Jussie Smollett staged a hate crime against himself to... get revenge on his bosses?... than that he was the victim of a hate crime and the CPD are just mad incompetent and racist.

You guys really need to take a step back and look at this tinfoil poo poo.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Skwirl posted:

I very much have faith in the Chicago court's ability to completely gently caress over a Black man. I personally think he probably faked the attack, but absolutely understand other people thinking Chicago PD is framing him, and the info I have now would not be enough for me to render a guilty verdict if I were a juror.

Yes the info you have now wouldn’t be enough to render a guilty verdict. Luckily the jury that will render a verdict will see more than media reports and will see evidence.

Seriously the conspiracy theory posts on this are approaching alt right shillary fbi secret lover text to take down trump levels. Dial it back guys. “I’ll wait till trial before I decide on a Chicago PD investigating a black man” = good. “He was obviously framed I believe the entire story of two white KKK supporters in Chicago at 2am who immediately recognised a black gay actor from a show no trump supporter would watch and then commit a huge hate crime that leaves no real injuries despite having a literal noose” = stupid hot take that makes you look stupid.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

A tiny victory against the alt right feels good at least. Especially today.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Chuds and conspiracy theorists won’t change their minds. A grand jury gets him on a dozen plus counts shows there was smoke and fire, him getting let off but keeping the bail (and not fighting it) shows they crossed a line with the investigation or something like that.

I get they’ve been done for poo poo before and cops are awful but that doesn’t mean that the Chicago PD are out to randomly frame some actor from a show just to make pro trump stories online, get a grip people

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

It’s a red herring. She was seven which is too young to really know any better and “kids will be kids” is NOT normalising it in the way “boys will be boys” does. Just think logically if kids can’t even consent then how can they really commit the same sort of crime? Especially when the ages are so low that they potentially are still at the stage of “I don’t even know what other people’s junk looks like” kinda silly games.

Focus instead on her defending her rapist tv show staff writer at the height of the me top accusations like it was nothing then proceed to still be regarded as a totally cool feminist icon for all!

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Its a dumb conversation to have here. Until Leo is accused of sexual assault let’s seperate “gross” out can we?

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

It also shows just how much power actually affects this stuff. R Kelly was huge back then. Now, not so much. Same with Cosby. One of the surprising things about Weinstein was that he actually got kicked out of Hollywood for it due to him being powerful. They protect their own in entertainment.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Donald trump just retweeted a Clinton conspiracy theory about epsteins death. Just so the conspiracy theorists in this thread know what company they are keeping right now.

teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

Bust Rodd posted:

I think it’s important to point out also that when we say “Louis lost 35-40-50 million dollars” were also saying everyone who worked for Louis, his production company, his writers, his actors, his production managers, his set designers, and all the people who depended on him lost their jobs and immediately had to find to new work”

Obviously what Louis did impacted his fictions severely and dramatically, but Louis losing all that money isn’t just about not putting his kids through private school, it’s about finding new careers for the 100+ people who worked for him.

He didn’t make the entertainment industry shrink, those people can get new jobs.

I won’t personally support Louis CK anymore as he’s doubling down on his bullshit and I don’t trust his apologies.

I accept that others can if they want. Personally I disagree.

What I don’t get is everyone talking about the concept of justice in society. You know what, I agree. It’s hosed up how potentially one mistake... well is CKs case a series of mistakes over years- which does change it a bit... but one mistake can put you in jail for a certain amount of time, you pay your debt to society, then you’re out and can’t get a job, your family is bankrupt, your kids can’t go to college, etc.

Like what about a man who takes a fall at work and needs painkillers to manage his back pain. Bad labor laws mean his work won’t pay for it. The medical bills pile up. Meanwhile his pain is always there, but he’s also addicted to the painkillers. Because of the pain he’s slow at work, and late a few days where he slept in due to taking too many of the pills the night before. He loses his job. He gets a job driving for a delivery company but the long hours means he needs some uppers as well. He’s pulled over one day and they find a dealable quantity in his car because of how bad it’s gotten and he goes to jail. Family left, no money for the kids, won’t ever get a good job again.

I know it sounds silly but surely stories (maybe not exactly) like this are far more common than you’d think.

Now why don’t we start with both reform of the justice system to be more fair on this people and also on societies expectations on feeling sorry for this mans life being “cancelled” due to a poor decision on drugs, why don’t we start with this type of person.

Why is it always starting with a millionaire comedian who serially masturbated in front of unwilling women? Why is Louis CK where we decide as a society that no, we are too harsh?

gently caress no. He will be fine. He’s worth tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars.

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teacup
Dec 20, 2006

Who would win in a fight? Taylor Swift or Daryl Somers?

DeimosRising posted:

Hahah loving pranked you dude, I sucked your dog’s dick! I swallowed a bunch of dog cum, so much, haha you’re so pranked lol

I might be getting mixed up but it’s not even the only beastiality themed scandal in Australian rugby the last few years. I believe there was another but since I follow AFL (who simply has normal, upstanding human on human rape or assault scandals like a civilised sport) I don’t remember the details.

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