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Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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I'm not sure if it's disturbing, discomforting, or refreshing, but it's certainly weird having huge chunks of pop culture crumble and fall away as these revelations accumulate.

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Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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DC Murderverse posted:

Terry Gilliam
Buck Henry
Wong Kar WaÔ
David Lynch
Tilda Swinton
Wim Wenders

):<

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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DC Murderverse posted:

i haven't ever gone looking but i'd be curious to hear from people like Kate Winslet or Jodie Foster (who seems to really take to assholes, given her casting Gibson in The Beaver in 2010).

Imagine going to Europe to make a movie with Polanski and having it end up one of his lesser works. Like, Adrian Brody probably ended up benefitting long term from starring in The Pianist (or he would have if he weren't apparently allergic to success), but imagine being Walter Matthau, going to Europe to film a movie with a rapist less than a decade after he fled the US and ending up starring in loving Pirates.

I mean, that's basically every Allen movie in the last twenty years. He may as well have had a brain hemorrhage and died on the red carpet premiere of Husbands and Wives given the impact of every movie that's followed, except he gets to live on, being a child molester and producing lovely lukewarm movies that nobody remembers. Did anyone even see "To Rome With Love"?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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whatever7 posted:

Blue Jasmine is very good, and Husband and Wives/Crimes and Misdemeanor/Bullets Over Boardways/etc was Woody Allen's strongest period IMO.

I have to admit I skip over most of his new works nowadays.

I'm not a big Bullets fan but I have a lot of of favorites in the years between it and Interiors. I don't think I've seen a new Allen film since Whatever Works, which was hot garbage, though I really like Match Point. At some point I saw bits and pieces of Irrational Man, and it was both astonishingly misanthropic and grimly tepid - it's like his brain fell out of his head in the 90s and someone put it back in and now it's all squishy and dirty.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Pasting my post in the genchat thread:

Magic Hate Ball posted:

I always feel really bad for the minors in these situations, not just because they were taken advantage of but because it so strongly underlines the really terrible effects a patriarchal and overall fearful culture has. When you're a teenager, you're already confused - look at the billions and billions of tv shows and movies and other crap that are about straight kids having a hard time finding themselves and dealing with romance in high school. But when you're a gay kid, not only are you dealing with the fear of coming out and being bullied and poo poo on and having your life in danger, but you often have no role models, no support, and an an absolutely crippled social life unless you happen to know lots of other gay kids, but you probably don't, so every feeling of attraction and romance is tied to a sense of hazard and utter uncertainty - not only are you not sure if the other person likes you back, but you're not even sure if they're literally capable of it, or of even having a reaction that isn't violently hostile. So you meet a gay teacher or a gay mailman or you go hitchhiking with a gay driver or go swimming with your gay cousin, and here's someone self-assured, knowing, and capable of providing guidance, and we've created a society where these people are the points of solace and comfort because we, as a society, push queer kids out through persistent xenophobia and cruelty that's repeated over and over and over and over in all sorts of media and through the brittle, horrible undertones of jingoistic anger that people develop and use in place of holistic kindness and cultural altruism, because it's much easier to come together as a group of hate, and that atmosphere is what creates a space forgiving to sexual abuse.

It's not so much about the age of consent as it is about heternormativity and toxic masculinity creating a world where the only form of support and learning for a lot of queer kids is by being taken advantage of by an adult, which is why it's necessary to provide positive media reinforcement and an atmosphere that doesn't kill people.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Pycckuu posted:

Don't blame gay child molesters on the society or any of these new age liberal sensitivity catch phrases. It has nothing to do with being a man and everything to do with being a hosed up pedo. I don't know what kind of media reinforcement you need to say "loving kids is not ok," Law and Order SVU has been on air for over a decade now it seems.

I'm sure it is statistically possible to meet a gay mailman who will tell you that your life will be gravy without loving you in exchange for sharing his wisdom.

I'M SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE YOU loving rear end in a top hat

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Pycckuu posted:

Take that up with your local PD, not a forum known for harboring pedophiles.

Really? A lovely, snappy response? What the gently caress is wrong with you?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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well why not posted:

Michael Bay's films read like a gay man making a movie to impress straight guys.

Kill Sizemore

They really don't. God, I hate posts like this.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Darko posted:

Explain why not? Because I get that "projecting what society wants and sometimes criticizing it and sometimes reveling in it" in every aspect of his films, including women.

Because it's weird and reductive?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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I hope he dies off-screen in an excessively comical manner, like he gets hooked to a hot air balloon on accident and then falls into a bubble gum factory.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Nucleic Acids posted:

Well, now Garrison Keillor just got fired by Minnesota Public Radio. I know nothing about him beyond general cultural osmosis about Lake Wobegon, so I can't really say if this was expected.

I got a free Lake Wobegon audiobook once and all the stories were about sexual discoveries in the glorious days of the fifties or whatever so I'm not massively shocked.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Jesus christ stop being assholes

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Inescapable Duck posted:

I still think that romantic comedies and romance subplots hosed up people's ideas of relationships at least as much as porn.

Every time I have to sort the comedy DVD section at work I feel gross because they're all movies that promote absolutely horrible cultural standards and "man wants to gently caress and woman has to be pressured or coerced" is easily one of the most prevalent sexual threads.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Itís going to scan as disagreeable but normal behavior to a lot of people, who will dismiss the complaint as blown-up needy hysteria without stopping to consider what it means that itís normal behavior.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Timeless Appeal posted:

The notion that she did not give a clear verbal cue for him to stop is bullshit.

Yeah I hate that take. She:

-Repeatedly pulls away
-Gets up and moves
-Says "I don't want to feel forced"
-Goes quiet and still
-Says "I really don't think I'm going to do this"
-And finally turns away and says "you guys are all the loving same"

Mystery and intrigue in flirting can be fun but if you're gonna gently caress someone you need to preface it with "do you want to" and then check in with them throughout. It's not difficult but our culture is so obsessed with this weird concept of horny ESP that we've managed to convince ourselves the state of "just knowing" is essential, which leads to a situation like this, where one party assumes the other wants to gently caress, and then aggressively pretends like that's true.

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jan 17, 2018

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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So are you describing a massive difference in perception or lying in a published article?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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A live-action Run Lola Run?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Haven't we already had an Alec Baldwin moment?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

This is the closest thing to understanding it as I get. As you say, read literally any oral history or biography of some entertainer's life pre-1990 and be amazed at how casual they all are about loving highschoolers. The thing I always get stuck on is that this wasn't something that only recently became frowned upon.

The 70s and 80s were insanely libidinous, which is, you know, reflected in the media of the era.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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K. Waste posted:

I had a friend who once asked me if I thought Polanski's experiences during the Holocaust contributed to his pathology. My answer was, "Mate, there was rape before the Holocaust."

Okay I appreciate the work and effort you put into your posts but this is really, really not a cool way to approach this.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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K. Waste posted:

Again, nothing has to be "on the same level as Weinstein." We are not hunting for Pennywise. The problem is not individual human-monsters, but the entire ideological framework from which patriarchal power is perpetuated.

Which is even more of a problem when a lot of people can't even fathom that there is a system.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Haneke is a terrific filmmaker but heís specifically devoted to a misanthropic worldview and I donít really need to hear his thoughts on real life events if itís not by way of a scathing, bitter film which at least can exist on its own as a work of art.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Oh man Festen is incredible.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Look, that bus was very convincing.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Yeah I donít want to be friends with someone who thinks black people are just biologically bad at swimming or whatever passes for milquetoast racism these days.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Snowman_McK posted:

In my experience it's just asking the question of why the Middle East is so violent.

My problem is that I visually pass for a Republican (straight people are weird), so people like to open up with their nonsense to me and it means I hear some really grim poo poo.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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CelticPredator posted:

How do you pass for a republican? What does that mean?

I am large and bearded and I wear flannel and for a lot of people that scans as right-wing.

edit: and I live in a very progressive city so I think a lot of right-wing people here feel attacked or threatened, so they approach me as some kind of safe haven or something? I once heard it referred to as the "dog park effect" via an anecdote by someone, a millennial, who had a golden retriever, and all the other people his age had smaller or more boutique dogs at the dog park, so the older, right-wing people with big, manly dogs would try to commingle with him and talk to him like he wasn't one of those weirdos, which meant he heard a lot of unsolicited bigotry as back-slapping commiseration.

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 28, 2018

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Phylodox posted:

Single White Female is a movie in which Bridget Fonda advertises for a new roommate (the eponymous single white female), an ad which Jennifer Jason Leigh answers. Then Jennifer Jason Lee slowly begins to emulate Fonda in an attempt to subvert her and take over her life. The phrase ďsingle white femaleĒ became a kind of cultural shorthand for a person mimicking someone else, usually with ominous, obsessive overtones.

Ah, she got 3 Women'd.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Let's eat him!

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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The guillotine has many uses.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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One of our high school administrators, in a speech to our class, suggested that girls not covering up is like "putting steak in front of a dog", which was met with hearty agreeable laughter and should tell you a good deal about what the actual problem is here.

Ubik_Lives posted:

A healthy train of thought if ever I've seen one.

Ah! A participant.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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He's always been an edgy iconoclast with a grueling cynical streak so this seems par for the course.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

"You do what you gotta do" is more defeatist than cynical. I guess sympathizing with Ol' Harv is the cynical part.

Cynicism is often defeatism with more deflection. When he wields it artistically, it can be refreshing and excoriating, but in conversation he tends to be super insufferable. See also Rich Hall.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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exquisite tea posted:

Nah his opinions just loving suck.

Iím not saying his opinions donít suck, just that heís always been like this and only getting worse the older and more embittered he becomes.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Snowman_McK posted:

kind of like the edgy comic who, over the years, becomes less aware of where the line is and just becomes an rear end in a top hat

Or the funny uncle whoís engagingly caustic when youíre a teenager, but by the time youíre an adult heís just scathingly bitter.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Pretty sure the #1 job of an iconoclast is to challenge institutions, not defend them.

Iconoclasty isnít anathema to moral turpitude, martyrdom, or just garden variety wrongheadedness. Gilliam absolutely believes himself to be tilting at an oppressive institution, that doesnít mean he isnít a clod.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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exquisite tea posted:

What I mean is that Gilliam's statements are not in any way ideologically consistent with "tilting at oppressive institutions" or w/e, they're just wrong.

With his perception of tilting at oppressive windmills. Iím talking about what Gilliam thinks heís doing, and why itís dispiritingly not out of line with his attitudes over the years. Heís always viewed himself as an iconoclast and that applies here with negative results.

edit: and they are ideologically consistent - being iconoclastic was the bread and butter of the Python troupe and after that almost every movie he made was critical of the status quo (see his frequent attacks on organized religion, consumerism, and social conformity). He also spent his entire career trying to buck the system and biting back at producers (see the Brazil debacle), so it's not a huge surprise that he'd approach a hot-button topic like this and try to tear it down, because he's often positioned himself as the destroyer of what he perceives as the misguidedly accepted.

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 17, 2018

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Uncle Boogeyman posted:

if we're not counting Monty Python stuff Gilliam only has two good movies anyway

Time Bandits, Brazil, Munchausen, Fisher King, 12 Monkeys, and Fear/Loathing is a pretty wild hot streak.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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Are millennials killing the casting couch industry??

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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We should exhume his corpse and beat it up.

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Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

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sponges posted:

Robin Williams was cremated

Then simply force his children to eat his ashes. I've always said we're overdue for an auto-da-fť, this way we can roll the mass conservative floggings in with the ceremonial racking of the molesters. We can save on parade funding that way.

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