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Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


As lovely as Ansari is, it is really unfortunate that his story seems to be eclipsing that of the highly ranked guy preying on literal children on-set.

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Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Is it? The guy immediately suffered consequences, IMO what's being swept under the rug is the amount of people that likely knew and didn't say or do anything.

That's what I mean. This guy got away with what he did for so long because people, explicitly knowing what he was doing, protected him. But instead of focussing on them the debate has moved on to a more famous person's significantly less lovely (but still lovely) actions.

I want the people who were warned and ignored it, and the people who should have known but say they didn't, to be made to answer. I'm concerned that with the public spotlight moving off to another less serious story all of the people involved in sweeping the stunt guy's poo poo under the carpet will be allowed to just put their heads down an go on as before. And that is the crux of the problem in Hollywood. That the abusive structure is never torn down, and they always just go on as before.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Thing is, if he'd denied it ever happened, and then this stuff came out about Babe and Way, I think a lot of people would be justified in dismissing the whole story as false. Unless 'Grace' unmasked herself.

This is deplorably, dangerously, unprofessional behaviour on Babe's part. They are harming the credibility of the story they convinced someone to tell them.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Toplowtech posted:

It's now a full PR war and yes, the agents and publicists are where the power is.
I must admit i wasn't expecting PMK BNC to pull the CNN orbital cannon to nuke the blog from cable network orbit. If you though Aziz was too aggressive in his dating before, Jesus wait to see the next move of his agents.

Come on now. I think it's pretty tinfoil hat to be blaming his agency for the blog appearing to be the journalistic equivalent of an ambulance chaser. It's Babe's own words that make them appear to be lacking in experience, integrity, and a basic ability to communicate like adults, let alone professionals.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Toplowtech posted:

Oh yeah they sure are poo poo at babe and PMK BNC is so good at doing nothing to defend their Aziz after his non apology/denial, when suddenly so many media starts pointing babe's weakness out. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*.
edit: i mean they are in the top 5 of most lists for 50 most powerful PR firms in America but they aren't doing anything there. No, sir.

Don't be a loving idiot. It does no good to anyone or to the cause as a whole to start crying conspiracy to defend what you perceive as an outlet on your side. Babe have conducted themselves like, at best, amateurs. At worst they come across as more interested in their own aggrandisement than in justice for 'Grace'. This is a problem specifically because it opens the story up to a natural redirection into covering what a bunch of berks they are as opposed to 'Grace''s complaint.

It doesn't take a conspiracy of the rich and powerful to get your poo poo called out on air when your interaction with with the news broadcasters involves insulting their appearance and age like you were a 14 year old. I don't think there are any news broadcasters who wouldn't have considered that poo poo to be relevant to reporting on the source of a story.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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Nucleic Acids posted:

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but it's depressing to imagine that this could get drowned out by Babe loving up their reporting of the Ansari story in terms of #MeToo.

If you want the real tinfoil conspiracy consider that Babe is funded by Murdoch, and then think about whether Babe loving up helps or hurts the movement. Then wrap yourself entirely in tinfoil and consider that with their habit of hacking phones, they wouldn't even need to talk to 'Grace' given that we know Ansari had a conversation about his conduct via text.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


How so? They are reinforcing the perception that the story didn't matter to them, the advertising did.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Oh yeah, that's very distinct from literally every other media outlet, and definitely more shameless too. This pathetic mean girls poo poo means nothing.

quote:

Woohoo, look at us, look how well we've done out of this woman's trauma. Yay! \o/

*fires party poppers*

News you can trust.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 19, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

Those people also discounted decades of testimony with 'why didn't come forward at the time?' or 'what did they think would happen?' they're scum. They're people who think all 40 women or whatever it was who accused Bill Cosby all made it up separately, or that Depp couldn't have beaten his wife because he didn't beat the others. The decorum of the reporting doesn't loving matter unless you help them pretend it does.

It absolutely does matter because life isn't actually black and white. Not everyone who disagrees with you is "scum". Not everyone who will look at a source like Babe and think "these people don't seem kosher" and as a result question the stories they print, is "scum", or stupid, or unreachable. The perceived legitimacy of the delivery system for a message is integral to how likely that message is to be taken seriously, and repeated, and acted upon.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 19, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


You are being wilfully obtuse.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:


Are you going to judge Ansari based on how Babe approached the story?

If Ansari had not admitted to the story being true, and had in fact denied it, then yes, lacking any other corroboration, or 'Grace' coming forward, I would be looking at this story with scepticism. Because scepticism is the natural, and correct, response to a source of information which seems unreliable.
That isn't to say that I would absolutely disbelieve the story, but I wouldn't necessarily believe it either.

What you seem to be advocating is a standard by which I could make a blog tomorrow, accuse someone of being a sex weirdo, and expect to have them ruined by Sunday.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

They'll already buy 'All thirty women accusing Cosby are lying.'

Some people do. Some people are unreachable. Most people are not. You are using a fringe minority as a reason not to consider the majority of people.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Jan 21, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


esperterra posted:

lol just because it's been a subject on /tv/ for years doesn't make it automatically not true.

We don't know the truth, either way, but I'm partial to believing it myself.

Indeed, there's a definite ring of truth to it. Especially in a post-Saville world. But at the same time, the sea of David Ike-esque lizard people theories that I kept running into when I tried to look into these rumours act as a gigantic caution sign to me.

Witch hunts happen because vile rumours are sensational, and self-righteousness is seductive. This guy may be as evil as we're being lead to believe, certainly I can believe that a Hollywood producer and a billionaire who looks like Satan's perineum could be monsters of epic proportions, but being stupendously rich and gently caress ugly aren't proof of, or even reasons to suspect, anything.

The idea of submitting to, or being associated with, the wisdom of people who think Mueller is secretly going after the Clintons for Pizzagate on behalf of Trump, or that references to being crazy for Bieber are proof of drug abuse, to make that judgement is cause to step back and pause.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


I think /pol/ leant more towards the "'cuck propaganda' by blacks and gays" theories about kids TV.

Thing is, until someone actually comes out and makes an allegation, either under their own name or from an outlet more believable than a peddler of Gay Frog Theory, you can't allow yourself to take this stuff as gospel. Because that way lies utter chaos and ducking stools.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 22, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

You're right, there's been heaps of people dogged by long standing rumours who've turned out to be innocent like...

Barack Obama.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

For all the insane theories about him (not a citizen, secret muslim, born in a test tube) I've never heard one about sexual assault, and I've heard most of them. I mean, there was one that Michelle was cheating on him and he was loving Biden. I've heard that one repeatedly. People were not shy about throwing allegations at him.

You miss my point. Why are persistent long term rumours of rape and abuse any different from the persistent rumours you list?

What you are doing, is dangerous. Whether you agree or not, you are appealing to irrationality and mob mentality. You think we are being unreasonable because we won't take unsourced, unproven, anonymous internet rumours as gospel truth. You are unreasonable for expecting us to.

Scepticism is not denial, it is simply the application of reason. The people we are talking about are real living breathing human beings. Alleged victims and victimisers both. You don't get to act like we are the problem because we wont just condemn them as "yeah, totes abhorrent monster" without even having a victim come forward, because there are real repercussions for real people.

The story about Nickleodeon is plausible sounding in the current context, but then Obama being a secret muslim is plausible to some people. At the moment all we have is a rumour, and it should be taken as such unless and until someone comes forward.
Right now it could just as easily be malicious as true for all we know.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


At this moment in time the Nickleodeon rumour is, quite literally, a conspiracy theory. It is the theory that a conspiracy exists, without proof or allegation of a conspiracy existing. A conspiracy may exist, and in time it may be alleged or proven to exist. But for now this is a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are seductive, and so they should be treated with reason, healthy scepticism, and care when repeated.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Gatts posted:

There was no reason to try to paint that poster as bad and insinuate or accuse or imply what you were about them when it was not warranted. That's the problem.

He, or she, is hell-bent on both missing my point and proving it at the same time.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

What the gently caress was your point? You forgot to say. You were too busy invoking birther conspiracies. Unless those were your point, in which case I got you.

My point, which I feel I have belaboured pretty loving heavily, is that allowing yourself to be abjectly credulous may make you feel good and righteous, but throwing away reason leads to a dark place where the truth doesn't really matter and people get harmed.

Then because I don't agree with you, you started to insinuate that I don't want actual Hollywood sexual assaults investigated. Funny that.

DC Murderverse posted:

On the other hand, Gary Glitter and Jimmy Savile.



As a kid I met and spoke briefly with Rolf Harris. In hindsight he's a creepy fucker, but at the time neither I nor the other hundred odd people present thought him creepy at all. The idea that monsters can be spotted visually is some phrenology poo poo. That said, Saville was so... off that people found him repulsive in person without specific suspicions, and rumours went round that he was a necrophiliac. In conclusion, a land of contrasts.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jan 23, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


That's a perfect example of why you can't just accept things out of context. Thank you.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Which are also things someone might do if their job revolved around working with children. I'm not saying that behaving like that doesn't come across as creepy, but a man working with children now carries a baseline 'creepiness' for a lot of people. There is a very real reason male teachers, generally, choose not to work in primary schools any more.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


I've never watched his shows, beyond a couple of hysterical tin foil compilations the other day, so I can't comment on that. hosed up if true.

Child actors frequently end up with psychological issues simply by virtue of having the kinds of parents who push their kids into that work, and the attendant ego fuckery that comes from being catered to the way successful actors are. That's before you factor in the other vectors of abuse that I am sure are present in the industry.

As demonstrated last page, pictures without context can be extremely misleading.

Bare minimum, we don't know. So we should bear that lack of certainty in mind when talking about people if we want to avoid the opportunity #MeToo represents turning into something abusers use to screen themselves like James Franco wearing a pin.

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jan 23, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Professional wrestling is something of a cesspit. Quite literally Hollywood on steroids. In the long long ago Vince Mcmahon was almost certainly involved in the cover up of the murder of a young woman by Jimmy Snuka, among innumerable other things.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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Snowman_McK posted:

Briefly talked to my dad the other day, and he's under the impression that a British MP resigned because he touched someone's knee. And while that would fulfill every stereotype about the british that i already believe, does anyone know what he's actually talking about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42810724

Considerably more rotten than knee touching.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Not Operator posted:


Also while this post is all British politics there was a Financial Times exposť of a creepy charity auction dinner that happens every year for a bunch of political and business big wigs where they hire hostesses and tell them upfront to expect groping and harassment. The UK's biggest children's hospital returned a donation from the event after the article came out.

Actually a huge part of the problem, above and beyond it being a rich men's gross sex party, is that they don't tell them to expect groping etc. If someone wants to take that job knowing it entails basically being a sex worker all power to them. But having people turn up to do a job of work without warning or consent, then it is just organised mass indecent assault. Hence the degree of scandal.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


I seem to recall a story about them giving Emma Watson poo poo for refusing to do stuff she was uncomfortable with on This is The End

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


MisterBibs posted:

It's not a career ender.

It absolutely can be. Not everyone in Hollywood is an abusive oval office, and even amongst them not all have a great deal of actual power. Saying no to them won't be a problem. The fear is that by saying no to the wrong person you make an enemy who will damage or stop your career. That is where the power imbalance comes in. One person can kill your career dead in its tracks by labelling you 'difficult' and you aren't necessarily going to know if the arsehole you're dealing with in the moment has that degree of power or not. Especially if you're new to the business.

Ashley Judd, a woman with all the box office draw and career success an actor could hope for effectively lost it all overnight because she crossed the wrong person.

And by crossed I mean she said "no".

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 26, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Quite apart from that, Franco seems sufficiently far up his own arse that he'd say anything that he thought made him sound artistic and interesting.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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I feel that famous sex creep James Franco's PR story would have maybe been more convincing if he wasn't dumb enough to be seen having lunch in public when he's meant to be at home distraught.

But then, he is a pretty bad actor.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


I'm imagining film students, but some how more insufferable.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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Al Borland Corp. posted:

What is this source here and why do they not use names? I assume the photographer in question is Terry Richardson?

Quite literally anonymous whisperings on a site infested with crazy conspiracy theorists.

Leto's shenanigans from the set of Suicide Squad do make him entirely plausible as a raging shitbag though.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Al Borland Corp. posted:

Sometimes a foot is just a foot.

I don't know much about fetishes, but what's more fetishistic, various characters appearing barefoot occasionally in a bunch of television series spanning several years, or someone carefully cataloging and screen capping all these occurrences into a mega post?

Yeah, this stuff is straight up witch hunting. It's functionally identical to the intent behind that picture of the producer and Michelle Obama from earlier in the thread. It's proof of nothing except that out of context you make words and images mean anything you like.

Quite apart from the fact that kids programmes have had jokes aimed to go over the head of the target demographic since time immemorial, I'm not convinced any of that stuff would be in the least bit creepy without a framing device having been hung about it.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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Coffee And Pie posted:

Calling for fans of the show to write stuff on their kid feet and send him pictures feels...not great.

That is peculiar, I'll grant you that.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Lovely Joe Stalin you seem incredibly invested in the idea that this man with a giant flashing neon sign over his head saying "WARNING: CHILDFUCKER" who has been the subject of rumors about childfucking for literally a decade plus, and who has been involved in some incredibly sketchy situations for which the easiest possible missing puzzle piece is "childfucking," should not be investigated for possible childfucking

You know what, this doesn't deserve a reply beyond "gently caress off".

Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 30, 2018

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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It's a great example of exactly what myself and others warned about.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


I'd actually stopped reading before it got down to his tweets because I was bored of scrolling through context-free clips, I'll hold my hands up to that. Asking for pictures of feet to be sent in is hard to see in a context other than pretty loving creepy.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Anusthing is Possible will be the title of the first porn star biography to win an Oscar.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang


Snowman_McK posted:

It's actually a pretty great example of how people get away with it for so long. I mean, pictures of kids feet is about as creepy as you can get short of actual child porn, and there's still folk here going 'it's only 4chan.'

You know full well that what I meant was that you went from loudly and proudly proclaiming the obvious and absolute guilt of one person to insinuating that someone else had suspect motives because they didn't fall in line with you. And Lord of Booty did the same.
Not because I disagreed with you about the need to end abuse, or that it exists in Hollywood. Not because I disagreed that people claiming to be victims should have their claim treated as credible and acted upon. I didn't even disagree with you that this guy might be what it's claimed he is. I simply disagreed with with taking physical ugliness, anonymous rumours, and fragmentary 'evidence' removed from original context but deliberately framed in the most negative way possible as proof that some nebulous 'investigation' and punishment are required. 'Evidence' which in one instance has already been completely debunked in just the last few pages, and an investigation that doesn't involve the police or, as far as I can tell, anyone more reputable than Mr Flibble the haunted hand puppet.
For that you both turned on me.

And that has been my point all along. That once you throw away reason and caution and any requirement for proof, even insufficient zealousness can be cause for suspicion. Which is how innocent people get hurt and why you need to be cautious with this poo poo.

What the pair of you did to me was intellectually cheap, and morally pretty loving vile, but it was also entirely predictable.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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Bust Rodd posted:

...The Nazis and CHUDS all play The Division 2...

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Are there nazis on SA? Or do you just mean in general?

There were obvious Nazis in the Division 2 thread in Games. Invoking Holomodor* out of the blue when the game's fash as gently caress sub-human Other narrative was addressed. It was genuinely shocking.


*A massive red flag talking point used to deflect criticism of the Nazis and Holocaust.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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If I remember correctly the guy invoking Holodomor was Despera.

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Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

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It really doesn't and it's kind of hosed up that you read it that way.

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