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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer


Okay, there's probably some portion of this that is true.

But the Daily Mail is a right wing hack rag that loses libel suits on a regular basis. So I really want some independent confirmation.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Yes the Keurig protests prove that paying money for something then destroying it works

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

This is a complex problem with many contributing factors. Sexism and institutional misogyny are absolutely factors, and so is power. So it's mostly powerful men but some lower down the pole also get away with bad behavior, and it's mostly men but some women engage in this as well. And there's also often a racial angle, vis how Terry Crews was grabbed in public but couldn't react because of his being a muscular black man.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

viral spiral posted:

That powerful Hollywood guy (Adam Venit) who groped Terry Crews is back at work with a pass, and it looks like Crews' career is over as result for speaking out: https://www.bet.com/celebrities/news/2017/11/30/terry-crews.html

Jesus loving Christ. :psyboom:

I'm not seeing what in the article suggests his career is over. Granted Brooklyn 99 will probably end soonish and then we'll have to see.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

got any sevens posted:

Netflix effect? They gonna launch their own service?

Nah this was a thing well before streaming services. It means you're making money both from advertisers and from syndication.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

There once was a time where you could poo poo on people for just kinda seeming like a douchebag or being kinda annoying. But now the stakes are higher.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Honestly it's as much Max's own attitude as anything else- that edgelordy hot-take-dropping sense of entitlement (as best shown by his... creepy interaction with Lexi Alexander) turned people off even before there were any allegations of specific bad behaviors. And that added to a sense that he was only where he was because of his dad, which is true- but there are a lot of showbiz people who started off with really good connections and DON'T leave that kind of impression on people, because they try to be nice. (Nicholas Cage, for example, worked hard to try and be taken as an actor on his own terms, which is why there's no "Coppola" in his name.)

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Charlz Guybon posted:

Is what's good storytelling timeless and universal? Maybe what's important to the story to one generation is different from what's important to a previous generation.

I can't imagine anyone from this generation seeing that movie and being confused at that.

Like, this is the challenge with remakes, you do have to find some new angle on the material. But, well, try harder.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Al Borland Corp. posted:

Who is reporting it or not has an impact on the credibility of the report.

Progressive people really do need to stop giving clicks to the Mail, though. They're a vile organization and I don't get why people don't know that.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean I think France's policy makes a certain level of sense. It's not just protecting individual citizens from execution, it's saying "As long as you have this policy we will not cooperate." Polanski should be serving time but that's on him being a cowardly rear end in a top hat who ducked out of possibly getting a harsh sentence, not on the policy he took advantage of.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The government policy does not shower Polanski with awards and plaudits. It merely forbids extradition to countries which practice the death penalty, to encourage those countries to abandon it.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Snowman_McK posted:

True, but he is free and able to make films and receive awards and plaudits as a direct consequence and effect of the policy. And it's not like they couldn't have anticipated that, and even if they couldn't have, they've got a fair bit of data now, saving them the trouble of anticipation.

And how could they react to that without abandoning the policy altogether?

As far as I can see the issue is he was able to flee prosecution in the first place. Maybe don't let your convicted felons get on overseas flights.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Snowman_McK posted:

Lock him up themselves. Place him under house arrest. Limit his ability to make films or be around young women (like the one he raped and was convicted for raping). Are you really asking 'what could a government possibly do to a convicted criminal?' is that really a question you need me to answer? Dealing with criminals is something that governments exist to do.

"No, you can't have him, your criminal justice system is inhumane, we will deal with him."

gently caress, it's not that hard.

Does the law allow them to imprison someone convicted in another country? Does the French Constitution or body of laws provide for this? You have to actually follow proper procedures, they don't stop existing because someone is a predator.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Origami Dali posted:

Last I heard, Polanski's victim had supposedly forgiven him and had been actively petitioning the LA court to close the case and move on.

Yeah, but it's a felony and not a civil offense so the victim doesn't really have discretion.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Snowman_McK posted:

Oh gently caress off with this. If you honestly think that French law has absolutely no way to deal with this, you're either full of poo poo, or French law is.

So you're admitting the possibility that they don't have the legal power to imprison him. Which is bad. They should do something about that.

Do you honestly think that either I or Origami Dali are defending Polanski? Because I feel like you're kind of trying to argue a point that nobody's making. Polanski is a rapist. He should suffer a harsher punishment for his crimes than he has. But making that happen probably involves something more complicated than going up to the Palais Bourbon and shouting "YOU BASTARDS!"

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Snowman_McK posted:

If the French have absolutely no legal recourse for someone who has actually been convicted, that is a damning indictment of them. It's also extremely unlikely, since 'committing crimes and fleeing the country' has been an idea as long as crimes and countries have existed. And the idea that France has no legal recourse, now, in 2018, or even 40 years ago, is really stupid.

Welcome to the complicated world of international law and the interactions between separate legal systems. poo poo is crazy.

quote:

If there was no legal recourse for the government, there's other things the establishment could do. Even if it was something as simple as 'not financing, starring in or distributing his films.' I mean, John Landis hasn't worked in 20 years, despite having not been convicted. And the chain of responsibility is a bit more complicated than 'he hosed a child' which Polanski did.

And nobody here was arguing in favor of his still having a career. Again, you were saying "here come the Polanski apologists" when none of us have done that. I'd like for him to serve time.

But it remains a difficult thing to accomplish.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

It's mostly that the end result was "Wow, Mark Wahlberg got a lot of money for the reshoots and his female co-star who is just as important didn't get anything" which is a bad look. For once, not entirely his fault, but hard to care about either way.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I'm not ruling out dementia or something similar in his case. People can get mean when they're that old. Even my grandpa on my mom's side, a sweet sweet old farmer, got kinda nasty at the end.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Yeah Tarantino failed to listen to his stunt coordinators and people who are paid to assess danger. I think that's part of the problem of that 'renegade filmmaker' culture where you start not listening to people who know what they're doing because man Tobe Hooper used a live chainsaw and it was real, you know.

I would hope he has learned something since then.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Basically Thurman is making a clear statement of what she went through, and Dowd is trying in a very writerly way to weave it all into a grander tapestry and that's kind of a bad idea in a case like this.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Was this before or after the case files (including Polanski's elocution) had been unsealed?

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

chitoryu12 posted:

Speaking as someone who's worked on film and TV for 6 years, I believe Tarantino when he explains some of the story behind the crash. As director, he wouldn't have been personally responsible for the condition of the car and the negligence would lie in the people who converted it to an automatic and provided it to the set. A random teamster who had suspicions about the vehicle should have been talking to them, not slipping rumors to the actress.

Well as a director he bears some ultimate responsibility especially if there was anyone saying there was a problem. However it looks like after the fact he did right in letting the footage get out there.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I do think a consideration was, KB was easily the most stunt-heavy project he'd done up until that point. It's possible the logistical complexity of that contributed to a breakdown in communication. Since then his stuff has featured some more elaborate setpieces (Death Proof most prominently) and there haven't been reports of recklessness or unnecessary endangerment so I think whatever lesson he did need to learn, he has.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean constantly shoving your fingers in someone's mouth because you saw it in a porn is a step beyond "lovely game".

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean, the goal, independent of the virtue or lack thereof of any one individual, is to reduce/eliminate harassment and assault in the business by making things more transparent- i.e., act like a creep, get called out on it in public- and theoretically reducing the power imbalances that exist. The way #TimesUp is organizing itself does seem like it's aware this is a systemic thing and they're targeting systems as well as calling out individuals.

And let's hold some perspective here- Aziz Ansari has not had projects cancelled on him, QT's doing what he does, it's not "everyone who gets named instantly has their career come to an end." That's not happening.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

But that's my whole point, it's not annihilation! Aziz Ansari still has a job! Quentin Tarantino's career continues!

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Blazing Ownager posted:

Only because of the amount of people standing up and calling it out as bullshit. What's fracturing the base is the people calling it bullshit versus the people who think it's super serious and is on the same level as Weinsten.

Then who are we even talking about? Who is the innocent man who's had their career destroyed?

The only two people I'm pretty much sure are done as a result of this are Weinstein and Spacey and even the latter, I mean he'll try sometime to come back I'm sure, not really seeing it working. The only reason I'm reasonably sure Weinstein is gone is because he's actually kind of open to legal jeopardy here.

Listing as many of the names as I can think, Louis C.K. is probably gone for a while, Takei is basically very close to retired anyway so it just means fewer cameos in nerd poo poo, Dan Harmon still has his show and Megan Ganz seems to be at peace with that for whatever it's worth, Stan Lee is retired, James Franco is kinda not facing much of anything yet, Garrison Keillor again was retired already, T.J. Miller is out of one movie but not another, I am not seeing scorched Earth here.

This is still a movement up against people who have power and connections and some people are going to dodge this more than others. Even then you're acting as though the MeToo movement is actively trying to end the career of everyone named, but a lot of these cases have in fact been "I'm not trying to destroy this person"- Uma Thurman went out of her way to make it clear she was not trying to bring Tarantino down because that was not her goal.

Like I'm not seeing #MeToo or #TimesUp as being about trying to bring low as many individuals as possible, but as trying to set things up so that this poo poo doesn't happen. Which will require those who have done some bad poo poo to face some consequences to discourage others from trying that poo poo. What actually constitutes effective deterrence has yet to be found out, but we're in uncharted territory here.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean I don't see the harm in waiting until actual allegations surface. It's not like our saying "I'll bet X is next" actually helps anyone anywhere.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The major rule with scripts is that you're writing to convey information to a limited audience- directors, producers, actors, etc. Informality, like the kind of stuff Shane Black does, can work, because he's still getting across what needs to be shown. (The Lethal Weapon script describes a character's house as being "like the kind I'll buy when I sell this script", which is a nice little bit.)

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I'm not sure if Cracked's writing went on a decline or I just got more tired of them as the years went by. David Wong always did have this annoying "I'm about to drop some TRUTH on you" voice, though.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Yeah the thing about chiropractors is it sounds like a scientific discipline but isn't.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

DeimosRising posted:

Weinstein didnít make any loving art

Looks like someone hasn't seen a little movie called Playing For Keeps

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean I know that people will make porn of anything but Big Mouth's characters are all quite deliberately grotesque.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

Pssh. A prosecutor can indict anything.

Except a cop.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

coronavirus posted:

Theres no way she wouldnt be able to file and press charges for domestic violence and sexual assault if this happened in the past few years. I believe in particular DV in CA has a 5 year reporting window. I don't doubt at all that he did all of this vile things based on his track record, but I don't understand just going after him financially. Why not put him in jail?

You'd have to convince the state to press charges and that can be a lot tougher.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

All I remember is him asking if you got that thing he sent ya

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