Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






precision posted:

I don't think it's helping to fall into the trap that women can't or don't do this stuff too though. It just makes the women who do feel like they're untouchable because nobody would believe other women or men coming forward about them. I've been abused by women who had power over me, it probably happens less as a de facto function of more men being in power but absolutely not because women are inherently less scummy than men.

Quoting because this was basically what I was going to say. I hope this leads to not only more women feeling empowered to speak out, but men as well, they arguably have even more a stigma talking about abuses and not being taken seriously.

I'm just glad this poo poo is finally starting to come out. So many of these people were already known creeps, but kept skating past any repercussions.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Appropriate shipping of the characters in show is fine. Erotic fanfic/RP or shipping of the actual actors is creepy as all hell imo.

Even if it's harmless fun, some fans get out of hand and will like read that poo poo at Q&A panels, it's super uncomfortable for adults let alone kid actors.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Haven't the wives of Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki had to deal with all sorts of nonsense from the Dean/Sam and Jensen/Jared Supernatural shippers? Some people just have no shame and take their fandoms/crushes/whatever too far now with ease of access.

Famous people have always been getting weird letters from fans or whatever, but it's like times a million now.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Timby posted:

So Page says she was assaulted by a director when she was sixteen, which would place it around 2003-ish.

Uh, that basically says David Slade, right?

Unless Hard Candy was filmed a couple years before it released, she was about eighteen when she made that movie iirc. I was 16 when it came out and Page is I think two or three years older than me.

I feel like the line she was fed about having to make the first move points toward one of her Canadian productions, maybe. Age of consent here was still 14 when she would have been 16 iirc, and was only raised to 16 like ten years ago.

But who knows.

e: like it gave me an 'it's okay if you move first' creepo vibe which would fit with how low our age of consent was and tbh still is

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Timby posted:

Page was born in 1987. Hard Candy was shot in 2003-04.

Yeah, I wasn't 100% on the production time for that movie. If the meeting was for a movie she ended up doing Hard Candy does fit the timeline.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






He also EP'd Awake and directed the pilot of that, iirc.

e: Slade's never been a very big name, the more I think of it

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Goddamnit.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, Takei isn't surprising, but it still sucks.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, we'll be straddling a fine line here whether or not media will start focusing on that aspect instead of 'humans in general can be poo poo'.

I remain hopeful it'll just be assholes who try and paint sexuality as a reason.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






I agree with Cranston 100%, tbh. If any of these people are willing to put in the real work to rehabilitate themselves, then they should be forgiven. Their careers will never be the same again, but maybe they can still be involved in the work they love.

That said, I doubt Weinstein or Spacey will put in that effort.

e: also yeah maybe not the best timing while Hollywood is still a tire fire of accusations and such coming to light

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






It would depend on the severity of what they did, and if they seemed to have honestly put in their time-- literal time, depending on the case. I'm not saying these men shouldn't be punished, some of them should probably end up doing jail time, but I'm a firm believer of second chances. On a case by case basis, like Cranston said.

It's not like I think Weinstein should become some bigwig producer as big as before if he rehabilitates himself. But he shouldn't be demonized forever if she shows true remorse and work. Which he probably won't.

I'm just a firm believer of second chances. Unless you hosed a kid. Then you can rot tbh.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Definitely. The road to forgiveness would be a long one, it's not like in a couple weeks if they apologize then all is well. poo poo would take years of real growth.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, to me a big part of forgiveness for these people is whether the victims believe they've worked hard enough to be forgiven. I don't think anyone is advocating for traumatizing anyone over again.

fwiw re: Weinstein I think he deserves jail time and I hope he gets it.

Once again, case by case basis.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, especially since this isn't a story about Gadot herself sexually assaulting somebody, people should probably cool their heels until there's more information.

If she did do what this person said, it's super hosed up. But it also would have happened thirteen years ago, and while I'll sympathise deeply with the victim in this case, I can't see it being that big a deal unless similar, more recent stories of Gadot being a hateful, predatory bitch come out. One would hope Gadot has grown since she was nineteen.

It also doesn't help that the person accused of rape seemed to be a good friend of hers. I would find it hard to believe my good friend cheated on my other good friend in such a hosed up fashion. Loathe as I am to admit it, it would be easy for me to side with the people I'm close to over the girl I've been rooming with for a short amount of time.

Whatever happened, if it happened, sounds like a loving mess.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, I'm not going to totally dismiss the story entirely. I just don't see the need to make a huge fuss and go down some rabbit hole of is it or isn't it a lie. Not without more information.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






The Spielberg stuff has been a rumour/theory for some time, in kaworu's defense. That he's the big household name Feldman is sitting on, or whatever.

That said, I don't think this thread is the place for discussing or theory crafting about people who haven't had substantial, or recent, claims about them. No need to kind of drag Spielberg through the mud unless someone comes forward to accuse him properly.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






IShallRiseAgain posted:

Lena Dunham admitted to molesting her little sister, and didn't even think she did anything wrong. She ain't learning anything from anybody.

Honestly, much of what Dunham wrote about seemed like the mostly harmless, if oddly sexual seeming, type of exploration kids do. My big issue is the way she she wrote about it, and that she felt the need to write about some of it, in the first place.

The stuff she wrote about doing as a pre teen/teenager while her sister was like seven years younger, though, was skeazy as hell and she writes about it as if the skeaziness is a silly joke. Kind of hosed up imo. I can't really look at that and say 'weird, but no big deal' like the story about the pebbles or whatever.

I've never much liked Lena Dunham, she just seems like a douche bag. This whole mess with her writer friend and the accusation against him does not surprise me in the least, like her reaction to it. I never bought her brand of activism, so her walking it back on 'listen and believe' is like, 'of course she would'.

Girls was a good show, though, and she was surprisingly great in AHS this year. Shame she's such a twat.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, I was about to reply with about the same thing. Big sisters definitely do weird poo poo, but it crosses past weird imo when you're bribing your 7yr younger sister to lay on top of you or kiss you, then later writing about it with the attitude of 'I did everything a child predator would do to groom a kid, lol isn't that funny??'.

Like my big sister humiliated me in weird sister ways but never bribed me to make out with her.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Basebf555 posted:

actually we really need men and women to stop trying to pursue romantic relationships with their own employees. It's bad.

ftfy

I think dating your employee is fine given the right circumstances. When someone is just abusing power, though, that's hosed and needs to stop. Besides dating your boss sounds like it would be the worst. You'd never get away from work!

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






I just think with the current spotlight on sexual harassment and assault, it will do more damage than good to act like it's only ever men who do this poo poo. There is a huge stigma on men about coming forward with this stuff, especially when it's a woman who abused them and not a man. That stigma needs to go away.

All victims need to be heard and people need to realize that women have the capacity to be just as terrible as men when put in positions of power.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I personally find it degrading when people act as if women can only be victims in these situations. We're not all wilting flowers or whatever, there are many of us who are loving awful and a spotlight should be shone on them just as brightly as on awful men.

That said, I do understand that yeah, it's mostly men we're hearing about and will continue to. But that's not because women are blameless. It's just because there are more men in those powerful, abusable positions.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, gently caress polygraph tests.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Anyone who honestly thinks there aren't female producers/etc out there using their position of power to gently caress hot young men probably doesn't know much about women. Even if they're indeed not assaulting/raping them as often as men do, does that not still count as an inappropriate situation?

Or are female bosses allowed to sleep with and date employees without impunity, and it's only an abuse of power if men do it?

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






I just hate seeing people brush aside the fact that women do these things as well. We can't fix this situation if we're acting like half of the problem doesn't exist, or that the male half of the problem is somehow worse than when women do it.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






The known ones are. Again, there's a bigger stigma on men coming forward than there is with women. I think we should be pushing harder for men to talk about their abuses as well as women, especially while we have a spotlight on the assholes doing this poo poo.

e: and sorry for getting kind of heated, but as a vagina haver this whole trend lately of women can do no wrong (not just in this sex assault situation, either) offends me like mad

esperterra fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 22, 2017

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Basebf555 posted:

When women in positions of power sexually harassing men in the workplace is a major widespread problem then we can focus on that. Right now I'm ok with saying that men are the primary issue here.

To be fair, this was your response to my initial post and this is what I ran with.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






The argument only started when your response was to say men are the primary issue. They're just the issue people are more comfortable speaking about.

But I'm sorry for the derail.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






gently caress, I hope this allegation actually sticks to Singer and more people speak out. He's such a loving sicko sleazeball and should have been stopped years ago.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Rhyno posted:

It's all I want for Christmas.

I fell down the rabbit hole reading articles linked on FB, a few people were saying Spacey has fled the country. While I don;t know if that is true I'm really curious to see if that becomes a thing that these assholes end up doing.

Worked for Polanski, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of them try it if the heat gets bad enough they may be facing jail time.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Origami Dali posted:

I don't have trouble believing victims. Knowing the full history of the Woody poo poo, though, I just can't get on the condemnation train. It's the only case I can think of that sets off my skepticism alarms, and I don't blame anyone for either working with him or choosing not to work with him.

Same, tbh. Woody def has done some skeazy poo poo w/r/t the timing around marrying Soon Yi, which is a weird situation far beyond their age gap, but I can't condemn him without knowing the full truth. I want to believe Dylan Farrow and feel terrible for her, whatever happened, but I also kinda fully believe Mia Farrow is and especially was batshit insane.

Whatever happened to Dylan, whether it was Woody abusing her or the other theory of Mia feeding her lies at such an impressionable age, or whatever, I feel terrible for her and what no doubt was a tumultuous household to be in during the time of that divorce.

The Allen situation just isn't as cut and dry as many others, so I can't really blame anyone in or out of the industry for falling on either side of believing Dylan or not.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






I'm not trying to say Mia Farrow is some awful villain or that Woody Allen is def not a creep, just that there's a lot going on in the case that makes things unclear. Hasn't Moses Farrow also come forward before with claims that Mia was physically abusive and coached Dylan for the accusations against Allen? There's just so many sides to the story, and it makes it difficult to try and decipher the truth. Did Allen do it? Maybe. Did a Farrow furious over his affair with Soon Yi make it up to get back at him? Maybe. Were either of them abusive to eachother or their children? Maybe. We may never know.

I prob worded my thoughts badly earlier, I didn't mean to brush it aside as if Mia Farrow being a bit unhinged (which I do think she kind of is, though surely through no fault of her own) makes it all her fault or anything, or that Allen himself couldn't have fed into that at the time (and certainly has since, iirc the way he's talked about Farrow has been pretty disgusting whether you see it as a guilty man pinning blame elsewhere or an innocent man lashing out at the person responsible for the claims). Just that it's a muddy situation all around where I'm personally hesitant to take any one side.

But again I don't blame anyone who does take a side. It's one of those cases where I can buy believing either. I just don't feel right doing it myself. I feel terrible for their kids no matter what the truth of the matter is.

e: iirc the first time the 'mia coached dylan' thing was floated was after he took a lie detector test and passed, while mia refused to take one at all or something. there's a lot going on and a lot of material both of their teams had to run with in campaigning for and against the case.

e2: actually refreshing myself on some of this i think child psychologists were involved with the initial claim dylan had been coached, but i can't find atm if this was before or after the polygraph

What a loving mess of a case in general.

esperterra fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 8, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Also can I just say I think it's weird Mia Farrow is still close friends with Roman Polanski, all things considered? Especially if it's true what Allen did to Dylan. Especially when there's zero doubt Polanski is guilty of the same horrendous crime.

Again, a mess!

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






DrVenkman posted:

To be honest, it kind of sounds like a Huff Po job given that they had called him that day already and the woman in question called them back before the game was over.

I still think it was incredibly stupid. If a stranger approaches you at random and you're a Netflix executive, the best thing to say is "I can't comment".

There might be a good lesson to be learned from this, for both people realizing that the definition of a public figure has expanded to beyond just the big names in any type of business, hell even to regular schmoes like us, given the right set of circumstances w/r/t people being able to instantly share things on social media. I'm conflicted about what this means for the way people need to learn to conduct themselves in public in the age of most people having the internet in their pocket. In the case of this dude, he's an exec at Netflix and probably should have been prepared to just say he had no comment, or like he said directing the woman to people who would have better knowledge on the subject. I can sympathize, though, with the feeling that being at a soccer game with his family was the last place he expected to be put on the record for something, or even to be approached by a woman connected to it directly.

I feel bad this guy lost his job and that I probably said a pretty lovely thing about him when the news first broke about an exec brushing a victim off when questioned about Masterson. I typically advocate wanting the full story before making any judgments, or to have at least more evidence brought forth etc but I still have kneejerk reactions to stories like this when it comes to anger at someone who may have directly or indirectly slighted someone who has come forward as a victim. When this story spiraled out of control and he got fired I was satisfied as hell about it, especially because Netflix had already been taking so long dealing with Masterson in the first place. Even if he wasn't in the wrong (and I don't think he was in the wrong, I think he made a little mistake at a very wrong time) I see what sort of PR disaster Netflix may have been facing if they kept him on, even if they got out ahead of it with his side of the story or whatever. That's just an unfortunate truth about working in big public facing businesses like that.

While I hope people don't villainize this dude, I also really loving don't hope people villainize the woman who initially asked him about Masterson. She's been through enough grief and doesn't deserve any more. I'm more than happy to lay blame on this at the feet of the media.

esperterra fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 10, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Basebf555 posted:

The percentage of old white men who get creepy/grabby with the nurses taking care of them is like 80%. That might be generous actually. I find it very easy to believe. It's even worse with foreign nurses on visas who have extra reason to feel hesitant about reporting incidents of abuse.

I used to watch the husband of one of my mom's friends before he died, and he had really bad Alzheimer's. One time when I was helping him get to bed he started to take his pants off because he thought I was going to give him a blowjob. But he wasn't being creepy or harassing me, he literally had no idea where he was or who I was. Sometimes he would think I was his wife, sometimes he would think I was his daughter.

It just happens. They can't help it. Degenerative mental diseases like that are horrifying and I can't imagine the pain someone who has one might be going through.

Whether or not Stan Lee has one idk, but if the allegations against him are laid at him while he was in his old age and not in his youth, I personally might lean toward him just being an elderly man who might say things inappropriate either because a. his brain isn't working properly or b. he's so loving old and frail he might wither into dust if he tries to change old habits. But I can't blame a woman for feeling unsafe just because of how rich and powerful that little old man is.

He's probably going to die soon anyway. Isn't he like 90 something?

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Didn't the initial story mention that her child was also playing at the soccer game? I can't remember, but I think it's more likely that a woman who was already upset by how Netflix was handling this may have brought the story forward, and I don't blame her if she did. Idk if she was used by the media or if she contacted them first. I don't think it really matters, either, unless someone comes forward with proof saying she did this on purpose or whatever.

I think it's just a series of unfortunate events.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






porfiria posted:

The point is that very little of this, and unfortunately not too much of all that's happening in general, is about justice or equality or whatever.

Yep. A lot of it is about just being loving angry. And I don't blame people for being angry these days, I'm angry a lot of the time, too.

But we need to step back and think for a second sometimes.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Basebf555 posted:

Nothing really gets done without at least a little bit of righteous anger.

And it is about justice, because nobody gets justice if the abuse is never reported. Many of these industries basically need to be gutted in terms of the culture and then rebuilt from the ground up. Not that I think it will happen but you would certainly need to crack a few eggs to make that omelette.

I agree entirely with the reasoning and the wanted end goals, especially when we're talking about the sexual abuse stuff in Hollywood and every big industry. I just don't agree with the means all the time.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Basebf555 posted:

That's my fault for not reading the direct quote before commenting on it, I must have misread someone's post earlier where I thought they quoted him. That does make a difference yea because you could read that a few different ways it's not as direct a statement as I thought it was.

I believe the original story was an exec saying he didn't believe the victim, so I don't blame you for getting it confused before checking the new quote yourself.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






21 Muns posted:

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place in that I hate America but also child rapists

me irl

e: I think France is right in keeping him, if there's precedent/they refuse to extradite any citizen to a country with the dealth penalty, even for non death penalty crimes. The death penalty is terrible and needs to go away everywhere.

On the other hand, Polanski admitted to being a child rapist so

esperterra fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jan 13, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






banned from Starbucks posted:

getting paid for your work....the shittiest of things

Yeah, I think it's more a strike against Williams' agent for not negotiating reshoot pay after Wahlberg's did tbh. Wahlberg himself probably wasn't all that involved in it. If it's lovely it's not entirely on him.

But he's donating the money anyway so who gives a gently caress.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Yeah, I think they're just at the same agency with a different team of agents/lawyers each.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply