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enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Wheat Loaf posted:

And probably Weinstein as well, I shouldn't wonder.

I don't think Family guy did, but MacFarlane definitely did before the whole Weinstein thing blew up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XKzDRz5C90

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enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Basebf555 posted:

There's just no argument he or the club can possibly make that he's entitled a heckler free set, because they keep doing this poo poo where he pops up unannounced for a "surprise performance". Nobody is there because they thought they'd have a nice evening out listening to a sex pest try to begin his comeback, they have every right to tell you to gently caress off.

The surprise performance thing is apparently a common deal in comedy for bigger names and isn't at all exclusive to Louis CK.

That being said, the reason that comedians like doing these performances is so you get a reaction from real people who aren't necessarily fans rather than the reaction of people who paid $100 for a ticket, and "people are super pissed at you for whipping your dick out in front of your colleagues" seems like valuable feedback that he should take into consideration.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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The Glee version was kinda cute if I remember right. The guy singing the female part has a unique enough voice that they pull off an all-male version.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Len posted:

You left out Fairy tale of New York.

speaking of Christmas songs with some lyrics that have aged badly...

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Mostly I'm pissed off about that line because I love Fairytale of New York and want to play it for my kids to show how great a Christmas song it is (the few times he's heard it my 5 year old really likes it) but obviously he's a bit too young to explain why that word can be used in that specific context but absolutely not anywhere else.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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For sure. It's a shame that there aren't good alternate versions that work. Someone mentioned the Jimmy Fallon / Saiorise Ronan one where they just omitted that whole verse, which is the same thing the Bill Murray Christmas special version did, but the song loses a LOT if you don't have the juxtaposition of them being young and carefree in the first verse and worn down and embittered in the second.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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She had this statement too, which has a little bit of "it's complicated" but doesn't come anywhere close to support if you ask me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WKFDqxiL80

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Ghost Leviathan posted:

Isn't that used against so-called 'Bernie Bros' all of the time, usually by people who turn out to be exactly the kind of person who are progressive up until the moment they might have to pay a cent more in taxes and/or they get exposed as sex creeps?

I think the intention behind it is pretty similar - people who use those terms are saying people are progressive so long as they don't have to vote for a woman as president. (I think it's wildly inaccurate for 99.99% of Bernie supporters, but I do think that's what the intent is)

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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If your only qualification for who you feel comfortable supporting is "is a human being", then you could make the same argument about Mussolini.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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I really don't get the obsession with requiring that all friends and coworkers publicly denounce sex pests. Like yes, of course if you knew something I think you have a responsibility to say something, but beyond that I don't know how we benefit from criticizing people for saying things like it's complicated. (note this is totally different from actually supporting said pests - I think Janeane Garofalo deserves some criticism.)

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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I think the criticism of Wheaton was a combination of him actually making a point to mention it as well as his reputation for being exactly the type to call out people for associating with sex pests. The internet loves calling out hypocrisy.

Jonah Ray and Matt Mira were perfectly fine being silent through the whole ordeal and no one has made much of a point of calling them out.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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The whole Aziz Ansari thing was a good conversation to have in the sense that he had some lovely but totally common attitudes towards consent and sex, but I think there was a lot of defensiveness around him since up until then the playbook had been pretty much 100% anyone who is called out is ejected from the public eye, and "being a lovely first date in the exact same way that tons of people are" doesn't really rise to that level. Fortunately, that didn't really happen at all.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Sucrose posted:

I hate to be cynical, but I think it's unlikely that a man who's nearly a senior and has been assaulting people for his entire adult life is going to "get well."


12, Mexico? 12? WTF.

Canada was 14 until shockingly recently (just looked it up and the change was made in 2008). AFAIK, there wasn't even any subtlety to the law like there was in Mexico.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Alan Smithee posted:

his show sucked anyway

It's come up in this thread before, but I hate this take. Why should the quality of his work have anything to do with how horrible a creep Louis CK is? Bill Cosby was hilarious, it doesn't make him any less of a monster.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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It is 100% possible that the victim in the Katy Perry story has lovely views about women and is also the victim of sexual assault, and "how lovely a person the victim is" isn't grounds to excuse the assaulter.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Schwarzwald posted:

A critical component of the male gaze is how it objectifies its target. Wonder Woman is hardly presented as inhabiting a passive role.

I mean, it doesn't take a very deep study of Joss Whedon's work to think that he fetishizes the "bad-rear end sexy girl" stereotype in pretty much everything he's ever done. Maybe that's not objectification, but women in Joss Whedon directed media are heavily fetishized.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose are still pretty much cancelled, right?

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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It's plainly obvious that there's portions of society view what Louis CK did as forgivable. Bust Rodd isn't saying that's good or acceptable, he's saying that is what's happening. It doesn't help anyone to deny an obvious, observable fact.

I think a lot of who faced consequences and who didn't with #metoo comes down to society's understanding of consent and sexual assault still assuming that consent is implied by default, and it's only sexual assault if there's unamiguous, consistent denial of consent. Most of the cases of people who "didn't face consequences" (I think everyone faced some consequences, but the ones whose careers weren't ruined) were cases where it didn't match the picture people have in their head of rape and sexual assault - that it only counts if the victim is screaming "no" over and over.

For cases like Aziz Ansari or Louis CK, there was enough grey area when looked through that lens to make them forgivable to some people. Not for everyone for sure, but you don't need most people or even a super significant amount of people to forgive you to maintain a career.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Bust Rodd posted:

I think the latter is sort of a fantasy that alternative people wish was the case but doesnít ever really occur in practice. Typically people who live this loud and proud sexually aggressive lifestyle on the outside are exactly as hosed up as they are suggesting through their behavior, and the only time they arenít is essentially when they havenít yet faked it enough to work up the courage.

From my experience, I can't say that's wrong, necessarily, but "has some weird sexual tastes / kinks" doesn't always align with "doesn't give a poo poo about consent". It's totally possible to be into hosed up poo poo but pursue it in a healthy way, and that describes a lot of people I know that fit the type we're talking about.

Someone said it upthread, but if we're going to talk about Marilyn Manson, Armie Hammer, and Thomas Middleditch in the same breath, it seems pretty far fetched to say that it's obvious who fits into that category based on how they look or present themselves.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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I think there's definitely a pattern of Joss not targeting the big names - Eliza Dushku's statement was generically supportive as well, not really saying anything about her interactions with Joss personally. The ones you tend to hear about - Fisher, Charisma Carpenter, Nicholas Brendon and Tractenburg were all less big names.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Oh my god I hate that article, you have to wade through months and months of "he made a catty comment about something" and I don't understand why they're putting all that trivial garbage next to actual genuine issues.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Alan Smithee posted:

Warner Bros: "okay okay we hear you, we're gonna have Joss Whedon do the Space Jam cut"

Waiting for the new trailer prominently featuring Lola bunny in a black catsuit ninja kicking everyone to show what a strong feminist icon she is.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Ok Comboomer posted:

And it was also a lot more normalized in the music scene and arguably in the broader arts world, if not society at large, in the 60s, 70s, 80s....Paige, Bowie, Henley, Nugent...frankly the fact that the last two were so overt and unapologetic about it tells you everything you need to know about where everybodyís head was at

Nugent loving legally adoped a girl so they could shack up and take drugs and then boasted about it for years, and Henley turned his sour grapes about getting publicly dragged for drugging a 16 year old into a hit song

The sheer amount of number 1 hits praising lusting after or sex with underage girls tells you everything you need to know about the music industry.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Whereas writing yourself into a scene where you suck an actress's foot is pretty bad.

A lot of this comes down to the supposed deviancy of the fetish rather than it being somehow abnormal for directors to include sexually suggestive content in movies though. If we were talking about a movie that highlighted a woman's breasts, or body in general, we'd be describing like 90% of hollywood movies.

enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Skwirl posted:

Has anyone done that? Like shown actual contrivance and got better?

Aziz Ansari? I can't remember exactly what he said in his special that addressed it but I think from the beginning he's been pretty contrite. It's hard to say whether he's got better since it was an isolated report in the first place and no one is exactly monitoring his dates, but I don't think there's been any other scandals since.

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enki42
Jun 11, 2001
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Skwirl posted:

I might be misremembering it, but the Aziz Ansari thing was way more minor than Louis CK. He went on a date with a girl, she came back to his place and he pressured her for sex, she said no, he kept pressuring, she kept saying no, and left without having sex with him?

He was absolutely being a creep to her, but he didn't pull his loving dick out in front of her?

Oh for sure he's on a way lower tier than most people. He was basically really creepy and didn't pick up on non-verbal cues and discomfort on the part of the woman (or willfully ignored them, although he's maintained that he genuinely wasn't aware the woman was uncomfortable)

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