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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I doubt you legally have to be accredited to be a bartender but you audition for barbacking, so some kinda formal training couldn't hurt.
Washington state requires a mixology permit but the enforcement isn't particularly strictand the five hour course is incredibly easy, has nothing to do with mixing drinks, and included no advice about spotying roofies.

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


PT6A posted:

He didn't quite say that. It was more "all this poo poo is on a spectrum, it's not all equally severe."

It's technically true, but 99% of the time the person bringing it up is doing it to downplay the severity of the least bad end of the spectrum. Saying rape is worse than an uninvited rear end-grabbing is true, but the subtext is "so stop bitching that you got your rear end grabbed, it isn't a big deal."
This. If your first reaction to "a bunch of people are sexmonsters" is "well not all sexmonsters are created equal," you're at best condoning lesser sex crimes and at worst terrified that you're going to be found out for grabbing rear end or covering up for your best friend's rapist brother and his buddy Joaquin.

PT6A posted:

The subject of a joke is not the same as the object of a joke.
I mean, at the time my interpretation of the joke was that Hollywood should care more about performances and that we too often focus on the wrong poo poo, but if your joke lands the wrong way with such a huge percentage of your audience as to condone that which it seeks to destroy, it's still a bad joke.

Intent isn't magic.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


am0kgonzo posted:

If you don't believe that a guy jerking off in front of consenting adults is the same as actual rapists you are probably a rapist or covering for one.

Okay.
This is the hill you want to die on?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


I HAVE GOUT posted:

Liberals have a much easier time getting away with it because of in-group bias. Ya'll hate republicans so theres no reason for you to believe theyre innocent.
The President has like fifty accusers, dude.

Why would anybody defend Landis? He didn't make loving Harry Potter or Star Wars. Nobody's childhood is Max Landis-based enough to have a blind spot for him about accusations. I'm seriously loving floored here.

Fart City posted:

If you run a paper mill and go out of your way to hide frayed electrical wiring and defective fire alarms from safety inspectors, while also forcing your employees to work sixteen hour days in order to meet a quarterly quota, and the mill catches on fire and kills four people, you're gonna go to loving jail.
Do you live in America? The only crimes rich people go to jail for are crimes against other rich people.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Electric Bugaloo posted:

Welp, boobs are for Adults Only and she shouldíve thought about the consequences of her choices before she put those adult boobs on in seventh grade. I tell you, in my day we had responsibility.[/i]
My ex-wife was a teacher, and this poo poo is so true and painful and it drives me absolutely nuts. The poo poo we do to young women to excuse the lovely behaviors of young men is loving bizarre once you apply any amount of critical thinking to it.

esperterra posted:

I can get behind dress codes when it comes to the girls who are legit dressing way beyond their age,
This isn't a thing. Using your example of booty shorts and crop top, instead of telling women to cover up, we should teach young men how to behave.

This country loves to talk poo poo about how Muslims "make their women cover themselves," and then we apply religious-minded puritanical bullshit onto young women "tempting" people. It's not young women's fault people creep on them and they don't deserve it for wearing whatever, and we're attacking the problem all wrong. The creepers are the problem and this notion of "dressing beyond your age" is just a roundabout way of giving the creepers more shelter. School uniforms, too. It's just tacit admission that we flatly refuse to teach men to not be loving horrible and blaming it on the women to whom they are horrible.

Nudity isn't even inherently sexual. Why would clothes be?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Vagabundo posted:

Teaching story
Thank you. You might not get to that kid, but every other boy in your class is getting the message loud and clear, and more importantly, so are the girls.

MiddleOne posted:

That happens anyway, it just takes different forms. Countries with school uniforms aren't exactly famous for being exceptions in bullying data.
I went to Catholic school. Absent being able to make fun of others' clothes, we focused on shoes, hair, and cleanliness. And god help you if you ever farted in class or barfed, because you have anywhere from 9 years down in this same room with these same 30 people and they never forget anything and are super incentivized to focus on your embarrassing thing so nobody brings up their embarrassing thing.

School uniforms introduce more problems than they solve and again, there is no garment on Earth that will stop a 12-year-old boy who's interested in girls from finding evidence of boobs, so maybe we should just sit that kid down and explain what's appropriate behavior instead of coming up with increasingly ridiculous ways of protecting them from ever having to learn not to be a dickhead.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Bust Rodd posted:

I guess Iím just saying that if Yahtzeeís greatest crime was, uh, being friends with a pathetic ant-covered loser and not quitting his BANANAS cushy job
gently caress Yahtzee for his views on poo poo, but you have absolutely no idea how much work it is to write things and create video content. poo poo is in no way a cush job. It is bananas how much work that poo poo is. I only produce a few long-form videos a year and it is incredibly time-consuming.

Pay attention to every time the image changes during a Zero Punctuation and understand that that is a new, original image every five seconds or so for 5 minutes. Weekly. Accompanied by an essay. The thing you had to do in school that was a lot of work.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


I'm in awe of our ability to look at an entire art form as just "not counting" where rape is concerned.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


The owners of the comedy cellar sent a very loud, very clear message to every woman, be they performer or audience member, that they are willing to look the other way on sexual assault so long as you can get a laugh and make us a buck.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Sodomy Hussein posted:

It's hysterical that anyone
While we're on this topic, can we maybe not use the "vaginas make women crazy" word?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Word doesn't personally offend me, therefore word is inoffensive.

A take I see so often I don't even sigh anymore.

If you've never heard a passionate woman be shut down by a man calling her hysterical, I envy you.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


CelticPredator posted:

I just think most people donít know about it. I never knew that until this thread. It makes sense but I never put two and two together.
Most people don't know saying you got gypped has a racial component to it either, but Roma people sure do.

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Hysterical meaning "hilarious" is a completely different usage than hysterical meaning "histrionic". Arguing that the former is problematic is some real galaxy brain poo poo.
I agree with this completely. Context matters.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


King Vidiot posted:

Except the very loving post you quoted when you said that was using "hysterical" to mean "funny".
Sorry about that. I wasn't taking that person to task for that use of it. I should've been a lot clearer about that. That was really careless.

It was just a jumping-off point for something that's been bothering me.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


esperterra posted:

:same:

It's come up a couple times and is dumber every time. I could understand it if someone said a woman was being a hysterical bitch but 9 times outta 10 someone is calling a situation hilarious.
It's really not complicated. It's not okay to call a woman hysterical. It is okay to call a joke hysterical.

I hosed up by launching the topic when somebody used the latter, thereby appearing to condemn the latter instead of the former. It was my bad.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


It came out. It's been known forever. It just never got any traction because the country is on loving fire, we're putting children in concentration camps, and most of America doesn't even know who the gently caress Bryan Singer is.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


esperterra posted:

The Baby, It's Cold Outside thing really bugs me. It's a song about a woman who wants to gently caress, which is p empowering for its time. She never once says she wants to leave and is instead lamenting the way the her family (and society) would view an unwed woman spending the night at a male suitor's house.

It's one of the only Christmas-y songs I love!
Look, that's great for you, but robbed of the historical context where a lot of the things she says were, at the time, excuses women made for staying with a man and being DTF without being considered a harlot, the way it reads today is super gross.

So you, knowing the context, go ahead and enjoy the song. Just don't inflict it on other people or expect everybody to understand that context and leave it off your rotation when other people are over. You get to enjoy it. But you have to enjoy it alone.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


That F-bomb in the song is super horrible, yeah, but I still fuckin' love Fairytale of New York.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Sucrose posted:

Right. We shouldnít ban or remove old things just because if their exact wording was written today, it would be offensive due to shifts in word meaning or cultural connotations. If anything I think itís infantilizing to think that an offended person is incapable of realizing that an old thing is old and doing more research on what it meant at the time it was written.

......Do keep in mind that this is entirely different from removing old things that were written at a time where they were already highly offensive, but when nobody gave a poo poo about the opinions of the marginalized group being offended.
Nobody at all has suggested that you shouldn't be able to purchase the song and enjoy it. You made that up out of whole cloth. Nobody's removing anything or even suggesting that.

2018 and people still don't get that saying a thing is inappropriate for certain audiences isn't loving censorship.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Comedians like CK to nothing but whine about how entitled other people are, but the moment you don't think everything they do is wonderful, they sure do feel entitled to your laughter and admiration.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


CelticPredator posted:

Iím saying stop asking their friends what they think about their bad friends. Itís complicated and not worth the time.
No.

If I found out my friend was a rapist, they wouldn't be my friend anymore and if I stayed friends with a rapist once it became known, I deserve to be dragged for enabling a rapist.

It's not "complicated." It's super loving simple.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Remulak posted:

We're kidding ourselves thinking that these tradeoffs between complicity and failure is limited to Hollywood.
And? We're not in the Sexual Assault and the Culture of Vaporwave thread and the implication behind whataboutism is that because it happens everywhere, it isn't a problem.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


esperterra posted:

Also I liked Girls. I didn't finish it, but the seasons I watched were good. Dunham seemed pretty self aware about the content back then (the lead character is never painted sympathetically, she's just a trashbad through and through) but seems to have lost what little self awareness she had before.
See, I thought the same thing. Loved the first two seasons and thought it was a brilliant send-up of herself, but then I watched Tiny Furniture and realized, oh no, she's really like that, and thinks it's cool and good.

She's a trash human being who was born rich and the Fox News crowd hates her because she's a woman who doesn't defer to men in all things and them saying she raped her sister is just projection, like everything else they say. These things can be true at the same time.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Boy, those Red Letter Media fellas sure know how to pick their friends.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Skwirl posted:

Their by far most famous video has a poo poo ton of jokes about kidnapping hookers, maybe they don't have the best attitude towards women?
They have never written a single thing with a woman in it whose job wasn't "sex worker."

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


I've known about it since I was a kid and it is galling that nobody ever did anything about it.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Bust Rodd posted:

Going to a Dave Chapelle comedy show and then writing down all of his jokes as though they are real ideas that he is genuinely promoting is a bad look
This is one of the dumbest loving takes I've heard in my life.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Brother Entropy posted:

what is it about stand up in particular that makes people still try the 'it's not lovely, it's ironically lovely' defense
People not knowing what a power dynamic is and believing that if something's a joke, it's definitely okay and should be defended.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Brother Entropy posted:

sitcoms have jokes too but i can't see people constantly trying to carry water if one of those said some of the poo poo chapelle keeps saying the past couple of years
South Park.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Comedians are almost uniformly professional bad people.

They all look up to Carlin and Lenny Bruce but then they use their bully pulpit to browbeat people beneath them on the social ladder and act like they're a revolutionary for doing so.

Worse than that, when people decide that poo poo ain't funny, they get super fuckin' sanctimonious and for a group that uniformly mocks safe spaces and thinks the marginalized are entitled, they super want comedy venues and theaters to be their safe space and they feel entitled to people's laughter.

Stand up needs new stars so fuckin' bad. Bo Burnham went from a lovely edgelord teen to a much more mature performer, but he's just one dude.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


DC Murderverse posted:

i can't believe harvey weinstein can go places without getting spat on or punched or whatever

proof that if you're rich enough you can warp reality around you to make people think that you aren't an abominable rapist
It's not just money. It's the fact that he's a man, and most men I've met sympathize with the rapist first in every story about rape they've ever heard.

I mean, just watch that video and you can see it happening. Or read this thread. It's full of great examples too.

Wendell posted:

Right on, Bust Rodd.
Right? That post was perfect. I wish I could be that patient.

Steve Yun posted:

The last few pages are pretty strong evidence we should just stick to sexual assault in this thread.

Alan Smithee posted:

Can we all agree this is a McDonalds and talk about Weinstein
gently caress no to this line of thinking. This is exactly how nothing good ever happens. Somebody says something's bad, people defend it vehemently, and other folks use this as evidence that both positions are bad and "we shouldn't talk about this anymore," thereby shutting down the discussion, and thereby, progress.

This happens in every discussion about race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc. to the point that those in marginalized groups had to create their own Safe Spaces <gasp> just to loving talk to one-another about their experiences without being gaslit about them.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Hodgepodge posted:

The job of an ally is to support and amplify the voices of the oppressed, not to decide what is best for them.
Which is why I was saying it's bad to shut the discussion down, so you're doing my arguing for me. I'm also a woman, but I don't think you really cared about your "only those who are oppressed can speak on that oppression" rhetoric beyond wanting to win an argument.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Hodgepodge posted:

I'm not really interested in telling people what should be on-topic for the thread, which is why I'm still talking about the subject.
Then why in god's name did you quote my post about how we shouldn't shut the discussion down, then argued that point with like six pages of cherry-picked bullshit that had nothing to do with anything we're talking about?

Don't answer. I know why.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Gentlemen, I can hear your axes grinding.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


It's actually worth talking about how a sexual predator suffered zero legal consequences, continues to work in entertainment, has learned nothing, and thinks he's the victim.

We can stop mentioning it when he stops doing new terrible things.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


sponges posted:

People wholly turned on Garden State. I recall it being well received when it came out
It was naval-gazing at best and "Don't Take Your Pysche Meds: The Movie" at worst.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


He's gonna' need a big city lawyer fighting against the system.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Steve Yun posted:

Wow, men suck!
How dare you! I'll now spend seventeen tweets explaining to you how I'm a nice guy, so you saying men can suck is sexist and you're a missandrist and then I'll call you a c**t because you haven't accepted how nice and good to women I am!

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Not knowing somebody's a piece of poo poo doesn't make them not one.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


John Wick of Dogs posted:

Michael Vick served his time but he's on very thin ice.
Very thin ice.
Very very very thin ice. I have a chart.
I'm offerin' you a piece of bread.

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Doesn't Norton do theater?

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