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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:try reading less between the posts and more of the posts fully willing to admit my mistake here was ascribing any basic logic connecting your posts beyond their prima facie incoherence
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Nov 19, 2017 03:04
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'liberal' has come to mean to me 'expects a Nobel Prize for being slightly less completely monstrous'.
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Nov 19, 2017 04:53
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the way i see it, liberalism is a combined political and economic philosophy, while neoliberalism is focused almost completely on economics and only cares about freedom so long as it concerns the freedom of economic elites to gently caress over everyone else. they're related but not identical. liberalism is concerned with freedoms that aren't just economic, like speech, religion, etc. while neolibs couldn't really care less that's also why i'm not the biggest fan of using "liberal" as an attack from the left. just about all the time it's used like that these days, it's used to insult neoliberalism, which is distinctly different Autism Sneaks posted:prima facie incoherence
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Nov 19, 2017 06:29
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that's my b, I should've just used "face-value", especially since it was already established they were struggling with "neo"
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Nov 19, 2017 06:40
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get that OUT of my face posted:the way i see it, liberalism is a combined political and economic philosophy, while neoliberalism is focused almost completely on economics and only cares about freedom so long as it concerns the freedom of economic elites to gently caress over everyone else. they're related but not identical. liberalism is concerned with freedoms that aren't just economic, like speech, religion, etc. while neolibs couldn't really care less
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Nov 19, 2017 08:01
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get that OUT of my face posted:that's also why i'm not the biggest fan of using "liberal" as an attack from the left. just about all the time it's used like that these days, it's used to insult neoliberalism, which is distinctly different The reason we attack liberalism from the left is because they're deeply concerned about the free speech rights of Nazis.
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Nov 19, 2017 08:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The reason we attack liberalism from the left is because they're deeply concerned about the free speech rights of Nazis. That and the fact that oppression is a-ok as long as being an oppressor is equal opportunity
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Nov 19, 2017 08:36
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MikeCrotch posted:That and the fact that oppression is a-ok as long as being an oppressor is equal opportunity Yes, but I specifically want to zero-in on the way he draws the line between liberalism and neoliberalism. Liberal freedoms are all about the freedom (of opportunity) to be bourgeois.
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Nov 19, 2017 08:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The reason we attack liberalism from the left is because they're deeply concerned about the free speech rights of Nazis. If you live in a society of laws that are applied equally to all, if you want to allow a voice to the extreme left you have to allow a voice to the extreme right. The sort of laws you want to have are already jailing bad comedians for telling the wrong joke. Letting the government decide what is ok to say is good until you get an AG like Jeff sessions then lol
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Nov 19, 2017 09:33
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Byolante posted:If you live in a society of laws that are applied equally to all, if you want to allow a voice to the extreme left you have to allow a voice to the extreme right. The sort of laws you want to have are already jailing bad comedians for telling the wrong joke. Letting the government decide what is ok to say is good until you get an AG like Jeff sessions then lol 
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Nov 19, 2017 10:09
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The extreme left want to take away the money of the rich and use it to give everyone healthcare. The extreme right wants to murder everyone who's the wrong colour.
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Nov 19, 2017 12:08
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neoliberalism is the natural consequence of fdr new deal liberalism when the foundation of your favored economic system is to put the important economic decision-making of society in the hands of a tiny minority, you should not be surprised when this tiny minority corrupts the political process and ideologies to favor themselves
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Nov 19, 2017 16:30
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I got that warm feeling that I get when a billionaire is being tortured and forced to cough up his dough. Only thing that would be better is if it were regular schmucks holding the hot irons, but I'll take what I can get.
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Nov 19, 2017 17:24
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This really is my favorite image. Also I was reading in AlMonitor that the Sunnis of Lebanon now are uniting against Saudi Arabia, so good job MBS, for uniting Lebanon.
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Nov 19, 2017 18:54
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They made it plain as day that they're trying to get the Lebanese Sunni to start a sectarian war with Hezbollah because they don't like how Syria isn't going their way, and nobody is interested in dying for Mohammed bin Salman's FP ambitions.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:The extreme left want to take away the money of the rich and use it to give everyone healthcare. The extreme left also wants to murder everyone who's of the wrong political affiliation.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:13
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Xelkelvos posted:The extreme left also wants to murder everyone who's of the wrong political affiliation. think you clicked on the wrong forum friend
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Nov 19, 2017 20:16
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well maybe they should stop being wrong if they don't want to get murdered
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Nov 19, 2017 20:26
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the rules about who gets to be pm, president, speaker, and the allocations of seats according to religion preceded the civil war and the tail agreement
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Nov 19, 2017 21:02
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Xelkelvos posted:The extreme left also wants to murder everyone who's of the wrong political affiliation. That is completely wrong, we just want to have them sent to a place where they can consider how wrong they are and come back admitting it. I mean if they don't want to admit they're wrong they don't get to leave,but that is their won choice.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They made it plain as day that they're trying to get the Lebanese Sunni to start a sectarian war with Hezbollah because they don't like how Syria isn't going their way, and nobody is interested in dying for Mohammed bin Salman's FP ambitions.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:31
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get that OUT of my face posted:that's where israel comes in with their long-overdue bombing campaign of southern lebanon. i'm surprised this hasn't happened already I wonder how much worse it will be then the 2006 war. I always notice when I troll Israeli supporters offiste that they always get defensive when you mention that war.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:35
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it'll definitely be worse but i can't say by how much. i'm sure MBS is winking pretty drat hard at the israeli government right now, they just need to take the hint
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Nov 19, 2017 21:41
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if Israel bombs southern Lebanon, then Hezbollah will respond with missile attacks, and we're talking real deal rockets, not the basement science experiments Hamas has to make. there's no situation where Israel won't have to invade south Lebanon again if they want to attack Hezbollah.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:19
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:if Israel bombs southern Lebanon, then Hezbollah will respond with missile attacks, and we're talking real deal rockets, not the basement science experiments Hamas has to make.
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Nov 19, 2017 22:20
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Crowsbeak posted:That is completely wrong, we just want to have them sent to a place where they can consider how wrong they are and come back admitting it. I mean if they don't want to admit they're wrong they don't get to leave,but that is their won choice. Concentration/Reeducation camps. Got it.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:44
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Xelkelvos posted:Concentration/Reeducation camps. Got it. that's a pretty unfair and ungenerous description of giving someone free food, shelter, and protection from corrupting capitalist influences
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Nov 20, 2017 01:51
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the United States has political prisoners, my dude.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:56
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Xelkelvos posted:Concentration/Reeducation camps. Got it. I prefer to think of them as centers of contemplation.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:00
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Xelkelvos posted:Concentration/Reeducation camps. Got it. Those are two very different things.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:01
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Crowsbeak posted:I wonder how much worse it will be then the 2006 war. I always notice when I troll Israeli supporters offiste that they always get defensive when you mention that war. It's no wonder. That war completely demolished the perception of the IDF as an invincible fighting force. A decade of being an occupation force does terrible things to the actual fighting ability of an army when they face conventional opposition. There was also Nasrallah doing a straight up supervillain thing of announcing the anti-ship missile attack on an Israeli warship on live TV, as it was happening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNMK1vwlumM&t=77s Another symptom of occupation/hubris: the missile defense system on that ship was turned off because supposedly they didn't feel there was a threat.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:45
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It's not just that Israel hadn't fought a real war since they invaded Lebanon in the 80s, the IDF was turned into a glorified police force whose most dangerous threats were children throwing rocks, and suicide bombers. Palestinian Authority actively works with Israel to suppress the ability of people in the West Bank to resist occupation militarily, so they're not even dealing with a potent paramilitary insurgency. Hamas in Gaza had to be weakened through years of blockade and isolation, and they still gave the IDF serious opposition in wars that should have been complete pushovers on paper.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:52
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IIRC, Israel expected other political factions in Lebanon to jump on Hezbollah while Israel was bombing them. From what I remember they badly misjudged because everyone just told them to get hosed over and over. Meanwhile, Nasrallah made himself into a media star and came out of Cast Lead stronger than before.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:02
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Mitch been working out
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Nov 20, 2017 04:26
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Zeroisanumber posted:IIRC, Israel expected other political factions in Lebanon to jump on Hezbollah while Israel was bombing them. From what I remember they badly misjudged because everyone just told them to get hosed over and over. Meanwhile, Nasrallah made himself into a media star and came out of Cast Lead stronger than before. Israel pretty much waged a campaign of terror bombing in northern Lebanon, and guaranteed that they'd piss off absolutely everyone.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:34
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It's like Israel's a tiny America that lives next door to the countries it bombs thoughtlessly.
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Nov 20, 2017 04:36
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Just wait until Trump launches the annexation of Mexico in his second term
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Nov 20, 2017 09:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:IIRC, Israel expected other political factions in Lebanon to jump on Hezbollah while Israel was bombing them. From what I remember they badly misjudged because everyone just told them to get hosed over and over. Meanwhile, Nasrallah made himself into a media star and came out of Cast Lead stronger than before. It's almost like people remembered what happened in the 80s and saw supporting Israel to be a bad move
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Nov 20, 2017 10:26
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/932541114044870656
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Nov 20, 2017 10:59
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Xelkelvos posted:Concentration/Reeducation camps. Got it. This is now your struggle session
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Nov 20, 2017 11:14
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