BOTM NOOO VEMBER: AQUARIUM by David Vann

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > BOTM NOOO VEMBER: AQUARIUM by David Vann

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Ima gonna wait a few weeks before joining in because everything I want to say is spoilery as all hell

# ¿ Nov 8, 2017 15:30

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:17

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

A human heart posted:

David Vann looks like a lizard man wearing a human skin.

We would also have accepted "that preacher from the Poltergeist sequel"

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 03:10

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Take the plunge! Okay! posted:

3.7/5 on Goodreads LMAO

Caribou Island is at 3.4/5 and yet I think it’s one of the best books I’ve read during the past few years. Can’t wait to sink my teeth into this

I've been waiting to read it, but since he has so few books I didn't want to rush through all of them.

Goat Mountain is also excellent, and Legend of a Suicide goes without saying.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 00:02

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

USMC_Karl posted:

Ah, so his other works are good, too? I'm guessing from the snippy comments at the start of this thread that he is a relatively well known author, but this was honestly my first exposure to him.

He's interesting because he is an American author who is awarded and celebrated in Europe more the here

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 04:24

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

So since the comment about Aquarium being a meme keeps popping up, let me say this.

This book is really, really good. Genuinely my favorite book of the decade. Yeah it became a bit of a joke to bring it up in the lit thread, but it 100% succeeds on its own merits.

To be brief and non-spoilery, what fascinates me most about this book is how it deals with human responses and the impossibility of a clean resolution. The novel at every step is an aggression refutation of outcomes that fiction has taught you to expect. The characters react to an impossible series of ethical and emotional challenges messily. It is a story about human weakness, but it is a story that shows that people are rarely broken by tragedy. A lesser author would have the novel and the characters end at a point much cleaner and more satisfying to the narrator. He doesn't. This ultimately a story that shows people at their most human, in all the best and worst qualities it offers.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 18:14

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Yeah, one of the complaints in the Lit thread I heard was that it wraps up too cleanly, which I find insane since its the least clean ending I have ever read

# ¿ Nov 13, 2017 01:47

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

The romance story bothered me more because the love interest seemed kind of artificial. In a story of realistic, toned down people, the love interest seemed too much like a "character"

I do not think it was unnecessary however, because it was essential to what I think is the best part of the entire novel.

I would never love my mother like I had again

That idea is essential to the core of the story. It is the shattering of the childish hero worship of someone's parents and the confrontation with them as flawed people

# ¿ Nov 13, 2017 06:17

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Franchescanado posted:

Also, there's a pretty good interview between Michael Silverblatt and David Vann on KCRW's Bookworm podcast/radio show that was held for Aquarium's release which has some fun insight into the story. For instance, when writing, Vann only knew that Caitlin would meet an old man at an aquarium, and found through writing it was her grandfather.

I heard that story too and I have to admit I kinda feel like it bullshit. It's such an essential element of the story that I have no idea how he could not have planned it beforehand

# ¿ Nov 14, 2017 03:20

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Stuporstar posted:

I ended up finishing this in one sitting, staying up late, because I couldn't stop reading it. Holy poo poo.

Welcome to the clan

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 20:07

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

fridge corn posted:

Uhhh the excessive child abuse porn?

I don't think it counts as a gimmick when it is done so uniquely and well. Both the instances of abuse in the novel are so inseparable from what we know about the characters that they seem a natural result of their lives.

If the novel relied on tired tropes of drunken fathers or routine beatings, I would agree. As it stands though, the roots of the cruelty are far more psychologically considered

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 22:13

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Like, I think it's something of a cop out to consider something lesser because it's emotional response it causes in you is so visceral. Granted, the most empty of sentimental tripe and tragedy porn exists to create these same responses, but that doesn't make any novel that seeks such a response it's kin.

Take, for instance, my favorite section of the novel "What it was like". It's gripping and intense and visceral, but those feelings are earned. They are not evoked by cheap tricks or tired tropes. They come from a rather sensitive portrayal of trauma and insecurity that constantly avoids vilifying the abuser. The cruelty does not come from base malevolence but instead from a person struggling to resolve their own feelings of rage and inadequacy

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 22:22

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Stuporstar posted:

Same: MORE SPOILERS

As someone who's been in a similar hosed up situation, I'd say the psychology in this novel is spot on. It's hard to instantly stop loving someone when they suddenly turn into a monster, because you're totally in shock. It often takes that extra step over the line before you get fed up enough to say gently caress this poo poo. It's even harder when you're young and it's a parent because you can't just up and leave the loving bastard. And you can end up so angry for years, you have to watch you never take your anger at your abuser out on someone else when they accidentally stumble into your past—which made me not completely hate the mother, even though her past doesn't excuse her at all from taking it out on her daughter.

Also the fish and the lesbian sideplot were a bright light in the abyss and I was thankful for both of them. If the novel had been totally dire from beginning to end, I would have angrily cast it aside as abuse porn. Instead, both the fish and sideplot fleshed out Caitlin as a person instead of just a stand in for a little girl with an abusive mom.

E. I should probably mention I'm not trying to use "Mah experience!" to shut down discussion or anything. It's just what I took from it. I found this book cathartic.

Not at all, I appreciate the perspective

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 16:45

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

What I also like about the ending is that it explicitly denies resolution.

It says, there can be no resolution to this because no resolution to this exists.

The grandfather will never be able to make up for his neglect. The mother will never be able to make up for her abuse. None of the characters will ever be able to atone for what they did. The turning point in their lives is realising that just because you cannot atone for the past, it doesnt mean you cannot do what is best now.

The climax of the story is the grandfather realising that even though he did something unforgivable and irreparable, his attempts to atone by being so passive is only causing a new cycle of hurt. He realizes he can never fix the damage he caused to his daughter, but that doesn't mean he must stand by and allow his granddaughter to be abused because he feels guilty.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2017 01:29

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Chill dog you got ten days still how bout you read this book.and talk about it a little

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 04:37

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

ulvir posted:

some more poetry would be nice and good

Rupi Kaur

# ¿ Nov 23, 2017 16:57

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:17

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

The tain would be dope for march

# ¿ Nov 24, 2017 02:46

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > BOTM NOOO VEMBER: AQUARIUM by David Vann