|
The lesbian romance is important, because it's the final moment where Caitlin realizes that while her love for her mother was unconditional, it is not reciprocated at all; Caitlin's sexuality is completely natural, it is never considered taboo or wrong or risque, and it provides her with an emotional connection she hasn't been able to receive from anyone. For her mother to deny this to her and say "No, I no longer accept you because of this", is what finally solidifies Caitlin's cycle of maturity, because her mother can't love her the way she loves her mother, and because it's a form of cruelty and abuse that her mother is creating for her outside of her own personal scars left by her father, which she has been sharing with/exposing Caitlin to. Caitlin is able to experience and overcome the former abuse because she's able to justify it as an act of love from her mother. However, her mom denying her because of her personal love shows Caitlin her mom's selfishness and myopic sense of right and wrong. I haven't read the book in a year, so I may have some details wrong when discussing it. It is one of the best reading experiences I've had in years and I have gladly contributed to the Vann meme, and it deserves more exposure.
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:06 |
|
|
For those still reading, pay attention to the many different forms of camouflage throughout the story, especially in the first and third act. Each fish that Caitlin talks about reflects different themes within the story, as well. edit: Also, there's a pretty good interview between Michael Silverblatt and David Vann on KCRW's Bookworm podcast/radio show that was held for Aquarium's release which has some fun insight into the story. For instance, when writing, Vann only knew that Caitlin would meet an old man at an aquarium, and found through writing it was her grandfather. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Nov 13, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2017 14:14
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I heard that story too and I have to admit I kinda feel like it bullshit. It's such an essential element of the story that I have no idea how he could not have planned it beforehand Yeah, he may just have had an image of a little girl in an aquarium meeting an old man and just wanted to see where the story went. I've had stories evolve from images, and many great stories and novels have weird origins like that. Another example is supposedly Chuck P. didn't know Fight Club's twist until he wrote it, and then he went back and rewrote the novel to fit it. Ideas just pop out of the ether when you're writing.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 14, 2017 13:12
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:Tbh when I read this book about a year ago I thought it was really good and it definitely brought about a strong emotional reaction from me however now that the book has matured in my mind im not so sure. While vann's writing definitely has technical merit, I feel the emotional response to the book, while strong, is fairly shallow and obvious. It is a well written book that struggles to crawl out from under the weight of its own gimmick imo What gimmick.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:Uhhh the excessive child abuse porn? I don't know if that's a "gimmick". The only thing that's a gimmick about the novel is maybe the fish pictures.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
Your criticism is fair, fridge corn, but I don't think labeling major functions and conflict of the plot that heavily deals with the themes as a gimmick is accurate. House of Leaves has a gimmick. Aquarium has a divisive taboo conflict.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Like, I think it's something of a cop out to consider something lesser because it's emotional response it causes in you is so visceral. Granted, the most empty of sentimental tripe and tragedy porn exists to create these same responses, but that doesn't make any novel that seeks such a response it's kin. Yeah, that's a fair definition. A major theme is the cycle of abuse. It's not to titillate, and I don't think that it's emotionally manipulative just for being effective at evoking emotions. It works because it's very easy to put yourself in Caitlin's predicament, and because you want things to work out for this family. There are already underlying issues when we are introduced to Caitlin's mother. I think all of the portrayals are very human and handled with care. It was a hard read for me because--while I have had a decent family life growing up--I know many people who did not, who suffered at the hands of a loved one, or who was abusive because they were abused. Not only that, but Caitlin's strength and resolve throughout the novel elevates it higher than abusive/trauma porn. She's not merely a punching bag made to suffer for our enjoyment and then rescued at the end. Things only improve because she's willing to stand up for what she knows is right, or at least knows what's wrong, even if that means destroying her hero.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:06 |
|
|
I'm not spoiling the entire block of text, so SPOILERS AHEAD: Another good point that Mel brought up is the intention of the mom, who isn't abusive out of hatred for her daughter or for malevolence. She genuinely thinks of it as justified therapy for herself and for her daughter's well-being. She's wrong, of course, and everything she does is completely unjustified, but the fact that she believes she is doing the right thing for herself, her daughter, and her facade of a family, is a pretty realistic portrayal, and shows the complexity at work in this. Our country's number one religion is Christianity, and many of it's denominations teach inherited sin. Cailtin must suffer because her mother suffered, and her mother's mother suffered (albeit differently). And Caitlin adopts the suffering as a surrogate to her grandfather, because she is willing to forgive her mother for anything, because she is capable of unconditional love; she believes her mother should be able to do the same thing, because it's what is considered The Right Thing To Do; this is what leads to the final conflict of the novel, and acts as the final catalyst for Caitlin to fully lose her innocence of the world and see her mother as she truly is. The irony is that the novel begins with the mom trying to find someone to love with many different terrible suitors, but isn't really able to love anyone, really, even her own daughter, because she's hardened herself to the emotional cruelty the world has already given her. Caitlin manages to teach her mother how to actually love people by losing her own innocent immature love for her idolized image of her mother. I know I'm jumping around with my ideas here, but this isn't AP Lit, so gently caress it.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2017 23:16
|
|