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My partner and I took on Scenario 81 last night (Temple of the Eclipse). Whew, that one came down to the wire. The first group of Night and Sun Demons knocked my Brute down to 3 health before we even opened the first door. After getting past them, we got some super lucky draws out of the monster battle deck where they either whiffed, or the artillery got negative enough so it didn't do any damage. By the time we made it to the Colorless boss, I had two turns left in me and had 1 HP left. My partners scoundrel had 3 turns left and 3 HP left. Thankfully, the Night Demon ate the dark element on their first move, on an initiative lower than the Colorless, so it couldn't summon another demon. The Sun Demon spent its turn uselessly healing. That let myself and my partner to get into position to toss both of our relics on the altar, doing 8 damage. Next turn, the Colorless went first and whiffed his attack. So I was able to do my Loss Attack 6, +2 from the deck, bringing the boss down to 6 HP left. Then the scoundrel had her card that was an attack 3, +2 if I was adjacent, and drew a +1 card, killing it. I was done, because I used final Loss card, and would only be able to do a long rest, then die, if I wasn't killed by the monsters during my turn. So, first side scenario down - only 5 to go for my Brute to retire. Ugh. We don't even have 5 more unlocked yet. But hey, the treasure in that scenario is pretty sweet even if I don't have the elements to use it yet.
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Apr 12, 2021 16:47
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Themris posted:Yes, the Advantage + Rolling Mods problem has been solved [in Frosthaven], unfortunately not allowed to share how yet.
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Apr 14, 2021 14:26
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no comment e: I wasn't even sure I was allowed to say as much as Themris did, so I am gonna keep quiet. 
dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 15:25
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FC 113 down. It wasn't bad but there were more fiddly nonsense rules. We ended up taking a Lightning Bolts to just delete the first two seals we found and the other 2 were easily whittled down ftw. That scenario could have been a real doozy if we hadn't done that.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:34
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dwarf74 posted:no comment I assumed as much :-)
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Apr 14, 2021 23:07
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Thanks for the Saw recommendations! I'm two scenarios in and he's been an absolute murder machine. I bought the Prosperity 7 item Ring of Brutality which is simply ridiculous with Hold Back the Pain. I just wander into a group on monsters, disarm them and then unload a simply massive amount of damage on the next turn. Our Eclipse has been wandering around impotently with nothing to kill.
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Apr 17, 2021 21:33
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Old Dun Cow posted:Thanks for the Saw recommendations! I'm two scenarios in and he's been an absolute murder machine. I bought the Prosperity 7 item Ring of Brutality which is simply ridiculous with Hold Back the Pain. I just wander into a group on monsters, disarm them and then unload a simply massive amount of damage on the next turn. Our Eclipse has been wandering around impotently with nothing to kill.
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Apr 17, 2021 22:04
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Control Volume posted:Im doing a similar dirty trick with Two Minis where I give up my top action for more attack then use ring of brutality to attack anyways, typically paired with a bottom attack as well. Im still low level but Im seeing some room-clearing setups that I can pull with the level 5 loss. And then you throw in the solo scenario item...
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Apr 18, 2021 06:08
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Hit level 9 with Saw a few sessions ago with my group and I've really enjoyed the entire time playing him, even as the healer. Everyone else is on their 4th character or so, but this is my second. Haven't even started my personal quest to unlock the next one (Eclipse), but I really dont mind
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Apr 19, 2021 00:57
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Yeah leave Eclipse in the box imo
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Apr 19, 2021 01:22
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dwarf74 posted:Yeah leave Eclipse in the box imo Eclipse is fine as long as you don't pick That Level Six Card
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Apr 19, 2021 04:23
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dwarf74 posted:Yeah leave Eclipse in the box imo As someone that got The Thin Places as a PQ and is the only one of a three player group to not retire yet and at this rate will likely not retire until the other two players do so for a second time: gently caress You.
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Apr 19, 2021 04:58
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Over in the LP thread, Scenario 30 is over and we have a new level up on our  Come over and help us pick their new card and perk! As always, check the OP for the Spoiler Warnings. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3877469 That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 10:02
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Sphinctomancer posted:As someone that got The Thin Places as a PQ and is the only one of a three player group to not retire yet and at this rate will likely not retire until the other two players do so for a second time: gently caress You. Elephant Ambush posted:Eclipse is fine as long as you don't pick That Level Six Card
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Apr 19, 2021 11:56
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The larger problem with Eclipse is that it's basically the same archetype as the Scoundrel and removing executes (without turning them into Banes) narrows the gap even further. It's not like a certain other overpowered class which could had a few numerical nerfs while retaining its unique flavour.
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Apr 19, 2021 12:05
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Sphinctomancer posted:As someone that got The Thin Places as a PQ and is the only one of a three player group to not retire yet and at this rate will likely not retire until the other two players do so for a second time: gently caress You. Implementing houserules for retirement is strongly recommended. If you've played the same character for some time and you're not getting close to retirement, call it a day and retire anyway. No one should have to spend 30 missions on the same character when the game has so much to offer.
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Apr 19, 2021 12:34
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So I think there's a few potential partial fixes for Eclipse, but in the end, it kinda needs a redesign. If you are in a position where you're unlocking it, IMO your options are... 1. Play it! Give it a shot. If you and your group love having them around, be sure to crank the difficulty and have a blast. Just don't, like, put off retirement forever. 2. Go with an unplayed base GH starter class. If your group hasn't run Mindthief or Cragheart, they're can't-miss, IMO. 3. Remember that Diviner, Red Guard, Voidwarden, and Hatchet are all available too, if you have them! I'm running Voidwarden now in our campaign reboot, and she's just a potent addition. as to why... Minimal spoilers, Eclipse is stronger than entire other two-player parties and is quite capable of solo-ing many scenarios. Your team will love you for the power but also hate you because you are leaving them without much to do. e: Eraflure posted:Implementing houserules for retirement is strongly recommended. If you've played the same character for some time and you're not getting close to retirement, call it a day and retire anyway. No one should have to spend 30 missions on the same character when the game has so much to offer. Unfortunately, The Thin Places is one of those which can take forever. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Apr 19, 2021 |
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Apr 19, 2021 12:46
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dwarf74 posted:Unfortunately, The Thin Places is one of those which can take forever. Yeah it's fine near the end of a campaign and awful near the start.
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Apr 19, 2021 12:49
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dwarf74 posted:
I unlocked Circles after retiring Spellweaver, and after going "lol, nope" played Cragheart instead. Craggy was real fun to play, and had a lot of different cool combos. After playing Circles on Digital, where I have perfect knowledge of what each of the four characters does at what initiative, I am even more certain it was the right call. On the other hand, Eclipse was pretty much the last nail in the coffin of our TTS group calling it quits and just doing the final mission even though we had a bunch of side scenarios left. It is annoying when the optimal play you can do in your first turn as Cthulhu is using the cards which set up Eclipse's you-know-what card.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:00
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eclipse is just fine in the digital version because of the beefed up numbers of enemies that the game throws at you compared to physical scenarios.
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Apr 19, 2021 23:58
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Frida Call Me posted:eclipse is just fine in the digital version because of the beefed up numbers of enemies that the game throws at you compared to physical scenarios. This is obviously subjective but part of it is the single player nature of digital. You don't have one or more other humans to annoy or bore by playing Eclipse. You are also kinda right that some of the new enemies in digital have tons of hp so The Eclipse Thing balances that out somewhat. However you don't always fight those enemies. And also there's the downside of the fact that right now my entire 4 character party is built around enabling The Eclipse Thing over and over. I'll be glad when my Eclipse hits 9 and I can play something else. Speaking of which, no word on the next pair of classes yet for digital.
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Apr 20, 2021 00:22
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Elephant Ambush posted:This is obviously subjective but part of it is the single player nature of digital. You don't have one or more other humans to annoy or bore by playing Eclipse. You are also kinda right that some of the new enemies in digital have tons of hp so The Eclipse Thing balances that out somewhat. However you don't always fight those enemies. And also there's the downside of the fact that right now my entire 4 character party is built around enabling The Eclipse Thing over and over. I'll be glad when my Eclipse hits 9 and I can play something else. I hope they just release the last three all at once, unless they’ve changed their mind about adding other classes (JotL, etc).
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Apr 20, 2021 03:30
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I am not 100% sure Saw is even on the road map. There's only 2 classes mentioned, not 3. So that's one short - and it's gonna probably be saw. I'm not sure the code can handle med packs.
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Apr 20, 2021 04:33
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Tangentially relevant to the Eclipse chat, I ran into someone on r/Gloomhaven, who seems to sincerely think that Circles is among the strongest classes in the game, and is more powerful than Music-Note or Eclipse. I am fairly certain I am not being trolled, but I am having trouble trying to wrap my head around how someone could arrive at that conclusion.
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Apr 20, 2021 05:39
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Warden posted:Tangentially relevant to the Eclipse chat, I ran into someone on r/Gloomhaven, who seems to sincerely think that Circles is among the strongest classes in the game, and is more powerful than Music-Note or Eclipse. You know, in a game with note, eclipse, and spears. (and bolts and two mini and saw and sun and....)
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Apr 20, 2021 13:00
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Warden posted:I am fairly certain I am not being trolled, but I am having trouble trying to wrap my head around how someone could arrive at that conclusion. Some people base their analyses, and indeed their entire worldviews, solely on anecdotal evidence. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 13:56
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Warden posted:Tangentially relevant to the Eclipse chat, I ran into someone on r/Gloomhaven, who seems to sincerely think that Circles is among the strongest classes in the game, and is more powerful than Music-Note or Eclipse. In a perfect situation, circles can be quite powerful. In every other situation, they're trivially disrupted and have tons of wasted turns / actions
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Apr 20, 2021 13:59
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The situation doesn't even need to be perfect, you just need a favorable party makeup, some experience with the class and a good deal of patience, and Circles can be an absolute beast. Comparing to the other two classes is obviously laughable, because either of them can be devastating in almost any party composition or situation, often trivializing scenarios and causing you to nudge up your difficulty level several notches just to make things remotely challenging. That to me should be the takeaway, and not "Circles is bad"
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Apr 20, 2021 14:40
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Circles is inconsistent, simply because summons are themselves inconsistent in base GH. Also it's a 9 card class that relies on losses which is always a lol, even with a Spellweaver-lite card. I think if the GH classes were redesigned using lessons-learned, it would be one of the more heavily-revised classes. It works great now with some teams, and terrible with others, and shows dramatic swings in efficacy based on the enemy types in the scenario. the FH Boneshaper (aka Necromancer) shows some of those lessons, like 'non-loss summons are cool and should exist'. Also just using the recently-revealed 'summons can focus on the summoner when there's no enemies, if you want that' rule from FH should already help the Summoner somewhat. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 15:08
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dwarf74 posted:Circles is inconsistent, simply because summons are themselves inconsistent in base GH. It's this. I've been playing Circles a lot in digital and I reached the exact same conclusion. In scenarios where there are no enemies with Retaliate, the wolves are awesome. Otherwise they're trash. Same goes for the lava golem. It has way more hp and does way more damage but it melts if things go south and it's perma-loss so you're hosed after that. Then there are scenarios where the enemies might be favorable to the golem but then they're 4 or 5 rooms long which means you probably want to not use the golem and use the bottom action to recover other summons for longevity. The healing fairy sucks except for maybe a scenario with a lot of enemies that apply poison, but it's so fragile that it's likely to die The Living Bomb owns in a room full of things like Black Imps or other low hp enemies but is garbo otherwise Nail Spheres is a great summon for opening the final room of a scenario but again the enemies have to be appropriate and you can't really use them elsewhere Thorn Shooter is only good with a movement enhancement but it's your bread and butter for the whole lifespan of the character The class doesn't really take off until level 7 when you get the Void Eater. It combos extremely well with the Thorn Shooter and all the other summons are supplemental based on the situation/scenario/enemies Then there's the matter of any scenario with tight hallways with difficult terrain, hazardous terrain, or traps. Even if you clear the traps you're pretty much always better off dropping the summons, getting them back, and re-summoning them later. That's not wrong or bad but it sucks to have to do when you don't really want or need to. In the right scenarios it's a really good and fun class but otherwise it's extremely inconsistent. I'm not a designer so I don't have a lot of suggestions for changes but I agree that the Boneshaper with non-loss summons is a big step forward.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:56
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I agree with everything Elephant Ambush and dwarf74 wrote. My experience with Circles has also been of feast or famine, depending on the scenario and the enemies. Either it fucks poo poo up, or gets hosed badly, and which is more common varies hugely group by group based on what scenarios they are doing. No other class seems to have such huge swings in performance.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:17
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Elephant Ambush posted:It's this. I've been playing Circles a lot in digital and I reached the exact same conclusion. This is a pretty solid write up, some quick thoughts: I never even bothered with Healing Sprites or Nail Spheres for the reasons you mentioned and because the opposite cards at that level are great support cards for keeping your better summons in the game doing cooler stuff. The bottom of Inexorable Momentum and the Top of Strength in Numbers in particular can both be used to give the Thorn Shooter (which as you said, is the bread and butter summon) some much needed extra movement to keep it in play for an extra room instead of lagging way behind. Their opposite sides also give you some really great ranged attacks to supplement your summons. Retaliate does make the wolves suck but it's fairly rare, and even rarer that you get to a scenario where it's present in every single room/every monster (usually there's a mix so you can avoid it with careful planning, and would be foolish to unleash your Wolves when you know they will be retaliated to death). For basically any of the summons except Thorn Shooter or Lava Golem you do need to assume they will get in 2 or 3 hits before being wiped, and plan/set expectations accordingly. My biggest complaint with the class is that it has some good level 1 summon support cards -- specifically a shield all and force disadvantage for all attackers -- that are paired with the worst initiatives of any class, making them hard to use. Second biggest complaint is I feel like the 9 card hand is overkill; I get that you can refresh cards like the Spellweaver but it's at a weaker rate and that extra card could go a long way to giving you more cards to support your summons in each scenario. That's probably what I'd do from a design perspective to "fix" the class, give it a 10th card and 2 more cards with under 20 initiative.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:21
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My first mission as circles with the tabletop game years ago was the mission where (mission mechanic spoiler) every character and summon automatically takes one damage every turn. Not the best showcase for the class. The next one we did had crowded hallways and my two teammates were melee and that was that. I'm glad I got to actually enjoy it in the steam game.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:29
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Warden posted:Tangentially relevant to the Eclipse chat, I ran into someone on r/Gloomhaven, who seems to sincerely think that Circles is among the strongest classes in the game, and is more powerful than Music-Note or Eclipse. Circles/Item 70 He is extremely convinced item 70 also gives all your summons another turn and will get very angry if you try and tell him otherwise.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:06
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Circles is more powerful than music note in a vacuum
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Apr 20, 2021 18:11
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dwarf74 posted:Lol turns out I just got done arguing with the same person. It most certainly does not do that in Digital, and one would assume that the devs have asked Isaac to make definitive rulings for them. Even so, it should be apparent that you (and everyone else trying to make him see reason) are correct.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:25
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Yeah I'm done with them; I am very sick of nerds getting shouty and weird about stupid poo poo. Odds are basically 100% that they've used that combo (wrongly) and it's their favorite trick, and everything else is justifications.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:32
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dwarf74 posted:Lol turns out I just got done arguing with the same person. Hah, that guy is kidding himself. The rules don't support that at all.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:42
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One weird trick to make my Tinker into the strongest DPS in the game is replacing every card in her modifiers deck with custom made "rolling +100 add target" ones.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:42
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Kaal posted:Hah, that guy is kidding himself. The rules don't support that at all.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:55
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