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Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


oh boy

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Oh god no.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

I'm sorry, but that picture is way too low res for me to make heads or tails of beyond old cop car and bus so I don't get the panic.

Senor Tron
May 25, 2006

send em back to Islamistan or some shit

howe_sam posted:

I'm sorry, but that picture is way too low res for me to make heads or tails of beyond old cop car and bus so I don't get the panic.

Sign on building let us know previously that they will at least be acknowledging real world racial tensions whether or not they are a focus of the episode.

Everything points to this being set in the early/mid 20th century American South.

Latest photo shows a bus almost identical to the one that Rosa Parks is known for.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Could also be something like historical events being messed up and the Doctor having to make sure things go as they're meant to, a la Back To The Future 2. At my most generous, maybe the aim is to make more historical/educational type shows and do stuff like teach kids about the civil rights movement

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Senor Tron posted:

Sign on building let us know previously that they will at least be acknowledging real world racial tensions whether or not they are a focus of the episode.

ahhhhhh, that makes sense then.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Grimey Drawer

2house2fly posted:

Could also be something like historical events being messed up and the Doctor having to make sure things go as they're meant to, a la Back To The Future 2.

This would still be pretty bad

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Timby posted:

This could get offensive real fast if it falls into a "Doctor inspired Rosa" / white savior trope, or if aliens / monsters were somehow involved.
I'm not going to assume that's where this will go. They did the Christmas Truce well by using it as a backdrop and not having aliens/the Doctor be involved. That had the same potential to be fundamentally hosed up, if not the same potential to offend.

It's easy to see a ton of ways this could be really hosed up and bad, but I don't think it's worth getting preemptively upset. Context matters a whole lot here and we don't have that.

I mean, I'm totally prepared to call it garbage after it proves to be garbage, but I'm holding of judgement for now. I will say I admire the show for trying to tackle racism head on, even if I don't quite have total faith it'll be tackled well, and I recognize it could quite possibly be incredibly counterproductive and bad.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

Timby posted:

Looks that way, the bus matches:



This could get offensive real fast if it falls into a "Doctor inspired Rosa" / white savior trope, or if aliens / monsters were somehow involved.

A BRITISH White Savoir to boot.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Zygons have been spotted on-set in Cape Town along with the TARDIS. So ... Zygon fuckery with Rosa Parks. Chibnall, this is not an auspicious beginning.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


Reserving judgement until more info is available, but as of right now it's starting to look like my "gave up on the show under Moffat" streak stands a good chance of remaining unbroken. Mainly because I do not trust that a sensitive and nuanced portrayal of the Civil Rights Movement is going to come from the same man who wrote "Cyberwoman".

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The real Rosa Parks has been killed by Daleks and we have to get a body double on the bus quick

Senor Tron
May 25, 2006

send em back to Islamistan or some shit

The discovery that there are aliens makes the humans of this town realise that despite the colour of their skin they are all the same inside.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



Chib is already sending this episode to the back of the bus and it's not even finished yet.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


It turns out all the bad racist people were Zygons all along, and the solution the whole time was just to hate those dirty, interfering, refugee Zygons, who were the real racists.

I'm not sure Doctor Who in general is the show to tackle the Civil Rights Movement in America in any kind of direct way. I'll wait until we know more, but, yeah... this doesn't look good. Even if it's just scene-setting, like... to what end?

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway


This is kind of hilarious because zygons on the set is absolutely the most perfect leak to make this sound worse than it already did. The leak to kill hype and lower expectations, the leak no one wanted.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodbutt
Default Status: POOPING



I forgot this thread existed and just caught up on it.


Holy poo poo I wish I hadn't done that.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Rhyno posted:

I forgot this thread existed and just caught up on it.


Holy poo poo I wish I hadn't done that.

Yeah it's

Not looking great

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008


Chibnall also wrote the episodes of Life on Mars about a suspect dying in custody and Sam meeting his mentor: the first black cop on the force. It MIGHT be fine?

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Szmitten posted:

Chibnall also wrote the episodes of Life on Mars about a suspect dying in custody and Sam meeting his mentor: the first black cop on the force. It MIGHT be fine?

The black cop was okay but everything else in that episode was liquid poo poo.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Bicyclops posted:

It turns out all the bad racist people were Zygons all along, and the solution the whole time was just to hate those dirty, interfering, refugee Zygons, who were the real racists.

I'm not sure Doctor Who in general is the show to tackle the Civil Rights Movement in America in any kind of direct way. I'll wait until we know more, but, yeah... this doesn't look good. Even if it's just scene-setting, like... to what end?

Maybe uhhhh the Zygons disguise themselves as white people and actually just allow Parks to sit quietly in her seat? And without this incident the history of the Civil Rights movement is altered to the Zygons' ends?

Even that would undermine how an incident like this was eventually going to happen and also puts Doctor Who in the really lovely position of having to "fix" the timeline by reverting to the horrible reality that a woman was harassed and then arrested and embarrassed for the color of her skin.

There's basically no way they can handle this well, they should not even attempt to touch this.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

Rosa Parks was an empowered young activist who specifically sought to fight Jim Crow laws, and the worst thing this story could do is perpetuate the idea that she was a tired, apolitical old lady.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I just wanted good Doctor Who


And the worst thing is that a lot of the worst kind of nerds are going to blame the quality on the new Doctor rather than the one actually responsible

Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013


The best way I think this could be done is to just use the setting as a backdrop for an unrelated story. Allows the Doctor to comment about it and maybe ties into the themes, but without tying directly into the events, which would be tasteless and irresponsible.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

DoctorWhat posted:

Rosa Parks was an empowered young activist who specifically sought to fight Jim Crow laws, and the worst thing this story could do is perpetuate the idea that she was a tired, apolitical old lady.

I mean sure, but that's also a bit of a stretch isn't it? At the time of the bus protest she was in her forties and she didn't board the bus looking to challenge Jim Crow. She wasn't apolitical, but she also wasn't John Lewis looking to cause "Good Trouble". Heck, I didn't even realize (or forgot) that she originally sat in the "colored" section of the bus, and was only asked to move because the white-only section filled up. She was a politically active middle-aged woman going home from work who hit her "gently caress this" point in the face of Jim Crow.

All that aside, I think filming an episode about the US Civil Rights movement in South Africa is wild

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


Thing is, Chibnall could have easily done a DW episode or two about racism and the struggle for equal rights and civil rights, all without potentially trivializing actual historical figures and events or alienating viewers who take offense as to how these actual people were depicted. Just follow the grand SF tradition of "make an analogue for real-world Earth thing by setting it on a different planet with different species". Hell, DW's done it more times than most of us have had hot dinners, combined.

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Or Rosa Parks is featuring in the episode as an entirely accurate depiction of the event because Yasmine, whose a political activist, tells the Doctor she wants to witness it.

That's a possibility too.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me

howe_sam posted:

I mean sure, but that's also a bit of a stretch isn't it? At the time of the bus protest she was in her forties and she didn't board the bus looking to challenge Jim Crow. She wasn't apolitical, but she also wasn't John Lewis looking to cause "Good Trouble". Heck, I didn't even realize (or forgot) that she originally sat in the "colored" section of the bus, and was only asked to move because the white-only section filled up. She was a politically active middle-aged woman going home from work who hit her "gently caress this" point in the face of Jim Crow.

All that aside, I think filming an episode about the US Civil Rights movement in South Africa is wild

Not to do a too deep dive into this but they had a few cases of this and Rosa Parks presented as someone white america would sympathize with/find no personal fault with.

Also, as an American it's going to be uh...interesting to see a British take on the civil rights movement. Moffat gave Nixon a much more kindlier treatment that he deserved.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Mooseontheloose posted:

Also, as an American it's going to be uh...interesting to see a British take on the civil rights movement. Moffat gave Nixon a much more kindlier treatment that he deserved.

He gave Churchill a much kinder treatment than he deserved too

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


Weird how we have to condemn the Hartnell era of Doctor Who by turning the First Doctor into a cartoon racist, but Nixon and Churchill are depicted as lovable scamps who had to be hardass decision makers.

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Bicyclops posted:

Weird how we have to condemn the Hartnell era of Doctor Who by turning the First Doctor into a cartoon racist, but Nixon and Churchill are depicted as lovable scamps who had to be hardass decision makers.

This is because it was Moffats parting shot at those who call him sexist. He wanted to let you know that despite his faults it could be much worse... by inventing faults that weren't present in a 60 year old version of the show.

It's actually immensely disrespectful to the production crew of the time (which remains the most diverse one that Doctor Who has ever had) for a white rich man to protray their character as a racist and sexist dinosaur for his own gratification.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


I think it was meant to be in defense of casting Jodie Whittaker rather than a defense of his own writing, to be honest, but it was still cowardly to not only compare the current state of the show to 50 years ago, but to an invented version of 50 years ago that needlessly turns up the sexism to 11.

Coincidentally, that's what a Civil Rights era episode is in danger of doing.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I think the reasoning behind it was the thing that makes Steven Moffat look worst. As I hate him personally, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


Same but unironically.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

You've gone too far Chibs!

https://twitter.com/memoriesdw/stat...498248349650946

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

One day, we'll know all the secrets of the skies, and we'll stop our wanderings.



Well, with no longer having pockets on her clothes she has to keep all the random poo poo previous Doctors stashed in theirs somewhere...

Bum bag aside, I really like the costume seeing it that way

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You don't know how lucky you are you're snakes.


Fanny packs are apparently in again, although it didn't occur to me until just now that of course they can't call them that in the UK.

Wheezle
Aug 13, 2007

420 stop boats erryday


I hope her bag is bigger on the inside like Doraemonís.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Wheezle posted:

I hope her bag is bigger on the inside like Doraemonís.

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AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



Sorry, but fanny packs are cool. Just like bowties.

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