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Rynoto
Apr 27, 2009
It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

ilitarist posted:

I see journalists still have warm feelings about PDX corporate attitude still, with articles about player toxicity instead of the lowest point in quality for the company.

Gotta keep the corporate masters happy and paying. Also writing mean things about a game company tends to get you removed from their pre-release lists which is a big view driver.

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Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



"paying"

lmao what the gently caress are you guys smoking

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA


So no fix yet?

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Affi posted:

So no fix yet?

there's been one patch, but everything is still broken. it's gonna take a few patches and/or weeks to sort this mess out

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

"paying"

lmao what the gently caress are you guys smoking

just lol if you don't think games journalists are in games corporations' pockets

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





It's much more pathetic than that. It's just giving them early official access to info in return for good press, and then hoping that alone is enough to drive ad revenue. No need to bribe a press with money when it's staffed with very stupid enthusiasts.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



Wafflecopper posted:

just lol if you don't think games journalists are in games corporations' pockets

seems especially dumb to try to say that's the case here, when pc gamer also published an article about leviathan being so buggy that it's the worst reviewed product on steam.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Wafflecopper posted:

just lol if you don't think games journalists are in games corporations' pockets

Yeah, that's dumb.

The journalists are supposed to see where the winds are blowing. Customers pay right until they don't, journos are supposed to notice a hidden gem everybody should try - or they're supposed to raise alarm when good old reliable friend loses their way. Focusing on fans overreacting ensures company doesn't lose as much money and learns to manage fan reaction to bad products rather than trying to make products that are not bad.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

seems especially dumb to try to say that's the case here, when pc gamer also published an article about leviathan being so buggy that it's the worst reviewed product on steam.

Wasn't that Kotaku? Or did PCGamer do that as well?

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



Beamed posted:

Wasn't that Kotaku? Or did PCGamer do that as well?

https://www.pcgamer.com/au/new-europa-universalis-4-dlc-has-the-lowest-user-rating-of-anything-on-steam/

i'm sure this is all part of the plan of the dastardly video game journalists and their lack of ethics

BONGHITZ
Jan 1, 1970

how can i listen to my pirated albums? oh wait.





What the heck happened, why didn't anyone pull the plug on this?

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?





that's the real question. It seems abundantly clear from all the pre-release streams that they knew the patch was at least somewhat hosed, even if they didn't know exactly how much, but...it still got released.


who knows if it's "lol we can release anything and those fuckin' idiots will buy it" or what

AG3
Feb 4, 2004

Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.



Oven Wrangler

Publishers tend to be very opposed to pushing back announced release dates for any reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just went "you can fix it later" to the devs, who were very much aware of what was going to happen but weren't heard.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Maybe one day they'll make a movie about it. Something like Paths of Glory.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007


Paradox absolutely deserves flak for such a lovely dlc launch. But obviously not threats or harassment and definitely not targeting individual devs. Someone did make the decision to roll out a broken dumpster crawling with bugs that was also on fire and they do deserve to be criticized for it (again, not harassed etc). It's not an average patch with the usual betrayed fans who are unable to feel (or act) human, it is genuinely bad. Honestly the people who feel an urge to rush in and defend a "poor" corporation's honor terrible decisions aren't any better.

Hopefully they'll fix it so the game will be fun and playable again.

Pump it up! Do it!
Oct 3, 2012


I find it more surprising that they didn't do any official announcement on Friday regarding the clusterfuck and the next steps going forward - since that is what I would expect from a corporation of Paradox's size. Instead, they are just letting the terrible reviews flood them and leave their customers unsure about what they will do to fix it.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

AG3 posted:

Publishers tend to be very opposed to pushing back announced release dates for any reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just went "you can fix it later" to the devs, who were very much aware of what was going to happen but weren't heard.

They are the publisher, though. And this is arguably their flagship title. Itís so weird to knowingly crush itís reputation. No one cares these days about a delay, and itís not like itís quarter end or something where they want to hit some financial target.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007


Anno posted:

No one cares these days about a delay, and itís not like itís quarter end or something where they want to hit some financial target.
I wonder how many, if any, people won't buy a game because it was delayed a few months.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Pump it up! Do it! posted:

I find it more surprising that they didn't do any official announcement on Friday regarding the clusterfuck and the next steps going forward - since that is what I would expect from a corporation of Paradox's size. Instead, they are just letting the terrible reviews flood them and leave their customers unsure about what they will do to fix it.

Instead they've announced they're shelving Imperator Rome, among other things. I was expecting a stronger reaction on that. Not because people care about I:R but because Paradox reminds you it can stop support for a game immediately after releasing a DLC.

AG3
Feb 4, 2004

Ask me about spending hundreds of dollars on Mass Effect 2 emoticons and Avatars.



Oven Wrangler

Anno posted:

They are the publisher, though. And this is arguably their flagship title. Itís so weird to knowingly crush itís reputation. No one cares these days about a delay, and itís not like itís quarter end or something where they want to hit some financial target.

Have you seen that meme gif with the lady who says "it's a banana, what could it cost? $5?" ? It's like that, but the woman is corporate management asking "how bad could it be?". At least, that's the only thing i can think of. I mean, it's either ignorance or malice, and while the former isn't excusable it's at least preferable to the latter.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013



Fallen Rib

Anno posted:

They are the publisher, though. And this is arguably their flagship title. Itís so weird to knowingly crush itís reputation. No one cares these days about a delay, and itís not like itís quarter end or something where they want to hit some financial target.

Paradox Development Studio is a separate subsidiary of Paradox Interactive, with different people making decisions. It is still a bit weird if PDS told PI the patch wasn't ready and PI told them to just fix it later, but not schizophrenic.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

The same publisher has delayed Bloodlines 2 like 5 times because they want their first big entry to the RPG space to not suck. Itís just weird that theyíd deal a blow to their main business instead.

I donít know that this will have significant long-term effects or not. But it sure feels like it puts them on watch at least.

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


Anno posted:

The same publisher has delayed Bloodlines 2 like 5 times because they want their first big entry to the RPG space to not suck. Itís just weird that theyíd deal a blow to their main business instead.

I donít know that this will have significant long-term effects or not. But it sure feels like it puts them on watch at least.

I mean, Bloodlines 2 is a dead game at this point. That poo poo is never coming out.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Whatís ironic about Rome is that if the first release was CK3 tier it wouldnít be so underperforming to begin with

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


I:R needed that first release to see that fans at large didn't like the direction. It was on the roughly the same level as CK3 in terms of quality.

Giggle Goose
Oct 18, 2009


Yeah I had a few friends get into IR and they said it worked just fine, just that it wasn't that good of a game.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010


Yeah, Imperator was a technically competent game with no major problems at release. It just wasn't fun. It's made huge improvements and is actually good now, which makes it a shame it's being dumped. As far as forums, everyone knows the paradox forums have been a cesspit for years. The solution to that is heavier moderation, not talking about how rude they are. The Paradox devs have always been a bit too focused on direct feedback and taking it personally tbh, they could stand to take a step back.

friendlyfire
Jun 2, 2003

Charmingly Indolent

Zeron posted:

Yeah, Imperator was a technically competent game with no major problems at release. It just wasn't fun. It's made huge improvements and is actually good now, which makes it a shame it's being dumped. As far as forums, everyone knows the paradox forums have been a cesspit for years. The solution to that is heavier moderation, not talking about how rude they are. The Paradox devs have always been a bit too focused on direct feedback and taking it personally tbh, they could stand to take a step back.

Growing pains for their success. The long-term paradox staff are acclimated to being treated like they work at a small, scrappy company, but their success is such that they are being held to the standards of a billion-dollar company.

Sri.Theo
Apr 16, 2008


Poil posted:

It is a very common issue many people have now.

I swear this Russia campaign Iím doing is cursed. I just want to colonise Siberia by 1600!

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Nooo! My Cherokee game that was doing super well got the empty map bug despite me never using the continue button!

I wanted to no more trail of tears before they nerfed natives...

friendlyfire
Jun 2, 2003

Charmingly Indolent

MonsieurChoc posted:

Nooo! My Cherokee game that was doing super well got the empty map bug despite me never using the continue button!

I wanted to no more trail of tears before they nerfed natives...

You'll have to find the thread yourself, but there is a fellow on the Paradox forums that is helping people fix their bugged saves.

cool av
Mar 2, 2013


as this patch was a huge one for QoL / longstanding bugs, itís not impossible that theyíve hosed up the already fragile codebase with major refactoring and will not be able to recover anytime soon.

having worked in dev if you rewrite a major system youíre looking at 5x as long as it took to write, dealing with the unexpected fallout.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


cool av posted:

as this patch was a huge one for QoL / longstanding bugs, itís not impossible that theyíve hosed up the already fragile codebase with major refactoring and will not be able to recover anytime soon.

I remember a long time ago in some interviews Johan said that EU4 is not like CK2. EU4 is made in such a way that they can update it indefinitely, maybe EU5 will never be made. You can say that maybe Johan was too ambitious and wanted to upgrade the core of EU4... But this would explain why would the version released in April 2021 be bad, not why it was released.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

cool av posted:


having worked in dev if you rewrite a major system you’re looking at 5x as long as it took to write, dealing with the unexpected fallout.

"Unexpected." Sounds like this was closer to "It compiles, ship it" because given how pervasive the bugs are there's no way this passed QA.

You'd think after cyberpunk management would be a little more gun shy

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Honestly at this point, especially after leviathan, I dont care about expansions. Just give us a proper eu5 with the same amount of love and care that went into ck3

cool av
Mar 2, 2013


Azhais posted:

"Unexpected." Sounds like this was closer to "It compiles, ship it" because given how pervasive the bugs are there's no way this passed QA.

You'd think after cyberpunk management would be a little more gun shy

unexpected at the time they were writing it, not unexpected at the time they shipped it

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

Bat 'em up!




I kind of wish I hadn't deleted my saves from my normal Aztec game, even though it was from a previous version, just to compare timelines and see if I'm doing better or worse. I feel like I'm doing better, although I also think I probably could have done some things a bit faster.

It's in the 1540s right now and I'm at 10/9/11 admin/diplo/military tech levels with the high tech level for them all at 12 in Europe plus I've had Colonialism embraced for over 20 years now. I've almost completely explored all of North America, plus the Caribbean and North Atlantic sea/coast areas, plus some of the areas in the Pacific. I was able to colonize over half of Cuba and I can take the rest plus some of the Caribbean islands from the Spanish West Indies colony. I've got a decent base started in the Panama area that is starting to snake back up towards my central american land. I've also started colonizing north along gulf coast. The only independent nation left in central america is Cocomes which has most of the Yucatan area left. I have 5 vassals and I'll be able to annex them in a few more years.

I really kind of laugh when I think back to just after I fully reformed my religion before 1500 and Totonac was in a really easy war that would have given them their 5th vassal and let them get a religious reform, but I started a fight with one of their vassals (because I still had a peace treaty with Totonac) before they could finish which meant that they could take the 5th vassal, but couldn't reform because they were in a war. Then I fully annexed Totenac and took their 5 vassals as my own. That pretty much sealed up entire central america area because it meant that the few remaining Natuahl nations couldn't take enough vassals to stop their doom clocks and the few remaining Mayan nations didn't have enough provinces to conquer in order to reform unless they were willing to break their current alliance. Then it was time to expand, tech up and wait to be able to annex the vassals which is what I've been doing for the past 40 years with a cycle of annex vassals and then vassalize the remaining nations.

Spain started in Puerto Rico and Dominica and a few provinces in Cuba which turned into the Spanish West Indies. Then they started building what has turned into Florida around the Maryland/Virginia regions plus a province up in Maine and a few in actual Florida. Portugal looks like it started in the Brazil area, but it looks like they got hit by one of the native tribes that has since turned into something a bit bigger and more powerful. However, they have moved up towards my windward islands/columbia colonies. France has a single colonist building in the Maricabo area. England took the Bahamas, but I think their main colony is down in southern south america.

It's kind of weird because while the major colonizers have sent their explorers into my area, I don't think I would have actual contact with them yet if I didn't actually seek them out so it's hard to figure out where exactly I'd be if I didn't flip to animist and back. I mean I'm sure I'd have no trouble reforming the religion and getting out from under the doom clock, but I'd also be stuck waiting for someone to actually build near me.

TMMadman fucked around with this message at 02:28 on May 3, 2021

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



ilitarist posted:

Instead they've announced they're shelving Imperator Rome, among other things. I was expecting a stronger reaction on that. Not because people care about I:R but because Paradox reminds you it can stop support for a game immediately after releasing a DLC.

Handwriting was on the wall I guess. It seems like a failed launch is a failed game these days. All the hype around a new release evaporates and most people will have moved on by the time you fix things.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Games õ Europa Universalis 4: Leviathan Breaks

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Firebatgyro
Dec 3, 2010


New patch is out that supposedly fixes the CTD and save nuking issues

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