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QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Fuck your duck dynasty

Check the subject screen anyway; if you hover over the merchant icon for your trade company it should tell you what's going on

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SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Man after not playing this game much for the last few years I've forgotten completely how to expand. It's taking me forever

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

I started a new game as The Mamluks to check out all the changes and my my are they beefy now.

You don't have to worry about legitimacy or heirs and the high legitimacy ruler also gives you 15 army tradition. Plus you start with a vassal in control of one holy city and easy access to the other which gives you a nice prestige boost.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Because it's extremely relevant to my most recent game: the state system is cool and good but it's so loving annoying when you're a duchy and only have 5 states allowed in the early game. It takes 300 development to promote to a kingdom, but you can easily be bumping up against the state limit with half of that. It makes the early game as some minors even more tedious because you can quickly get to a point where your returns from taking additional provinces go to virtually nothing since you can't state them.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017


RabidWeasel posted:

Because it's extremely relevant to my most recent game: the state system is cool and good but it's so loving annoying when you're a duchy and only have 5 states allowed in the early game. It takes 300 development to promote to a kingdom, but you can easily be bumping up against the state limit with half of that. It makes the early game as some minors even more tedious because you can quickly get to a point where your returns from taking additional provinces go to virtually nothing since you can't state them.

This tends to be a problem with fast expansion in the early game and isn't only limited to duchies.

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009


^^^^^
I had 400ish development worth of unstated provinces around 1500 as the Mamluks.

The AI utterly fails with Drilling and I have no clue how they could fix it. My new strategy for big powers that I need multiple wars for is getting a province next to their capital. Since the AI always drills it's armies you get to stackwipe them before the first month ticks over and they'd have some morale.
Bonus points for saving manpower this way so you don't need mercs, so your armytradition#2 bar fills faster.

After playing a bit with that system I feel like it's bad, they should have had some sort of experience for troops instead, like in HoI4. All linked to the already exsiting army tradition.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Fuck your duck dynasty

I think it's okay for nations to have difficulty stating a huge number of provinces in the early game

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Tahirovic posted:

^^^^^
I had 400ish development worth of unstated provinces around 1500 as the Mamluks.

The AI utterly fails with Drilling and I have no clue how they could fix it. My new strategy for big powers that I need multiple wars for is getting a province next to their capital. Since the AI always drills it's armies you get to stackwipe them before the first month ticks over and they'd have some morale.
Bonus points for saving manpower this way so you don't need mercs, so your armytradition#2 bar fills faster.

After playing a bit with that system I feel like it's bad, they should have had some sort of experience for troops instead, like in HoI4. All linked to the already exsiting army tradition.

The easy, hacky fix is just to make the AI not suffer a morale penalty (or only a partial one) while drilling. Similar to how the AI doesn't (didn't used to?) pay maintenance on certain forts because otherwise you could just steal their border forts on delcaration.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017


Tahirovic posted:

After playing a bit with that system I feel like it's bad, they should have had some sort of experience for troops instead, like in HoI4. All linked to the already exsiting army tradition.

Yup, I would greatly prefer hoi4's way of veterancy over this.

But what eu4 really needs in my opinion is a pop and migration system like vicky2. Doesn't need to be as complex as Vicky's, if simply because 90% of your population will be peasants, but it would go a really long way towards better modelling the social changes, migrations and internal politics of the time.

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Dont you lose a bunch of the Ottoman bonuses for doing this, though? Also dont you have to do some other sort of shift to form Romania?

Yeah, you lose the Ottoman government, so no more harem etc. And of course the Dhimmi estate evaporates. You do get a choice to keep the Ottoman national ideas, though. And their quite frankly superior early-game units. And of course as a Christian nation you can get royal marriages with other Christians, and personal unions and so on.

And yeah, in order to form Romania you need to conquer Wallachia, two (I think) of Moldavia's three provinces, and a little bit of eastern Hungary; then manipulate things so you have a majority of your development in Romanian culture states (making Wallachia and Moldavia states and unstating everything else except for your capital state should be enough). Unstating and re-stating will set you back some in admin points, it cannot be denied. (Come to think of it, it might be more convenient to release some vassals in Anatolia instead of going through with all this, haven't tried that though.)

Then you have to do a little more stating and un-stating to make your primary culture Greek instead of Romanian. But if you have enough admin and diplo mana saved up before you make the switch, you can do all of this in one day of gametime, I think.

tqilamknbrd
Jun 6, 2009

your circumcision honestly disgusts me

So as far as I can tell you keep the feudal theocracy gov type if you convert to another religious group, can't wait to see if I can abuse it by becoming coptic or jewish.

Caustic Soda
Nov 1, 2010


So apparently it's really easy to get 'Baa Baa, Black Sheep' right now. I got it in 1452, and I wasn't even going for it specifically. I was just conquering my weak Shia neighbors to help bring up Religious Unity. I'm guessing it's the introduction of Livestock which makes it so much easier, since there's way less wool being traded worldwide.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


tqilamknbrd posted:

So as far as I can tell you keep the feudal theocracy gov type if you convert to another religious group, can't wait to see if I can abuse it by becoming coptic or jewish.

Coptic Feudal Theocracy sounds goddamn terrifying and most of the good candidates to form Persia are near a bunch of Coptic provinces. And Rassids would also be a good choice to rush into Ethiopia.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Linear Zoetrope posted:

The easy, hacky fix is just to make the AI not suffer a morale penalty (or only a partial one) while drilling. Similar to how the AI doesn't (didn't used to?) pay maintenance on certain forts because otherwise you could just steal their border forts on delcaration.

The AI is already constantly near 100% drill so I donít see this as good solution, the system already just makes it so AI has troops that are almost always better than the players all else being equal and this would simply remove the big drawback. I think AI needs to be more judicious about how much it drills, similar to how a player isnít going to be drilling all the time because of rebels and pending wars. Even if the AI doesnít have to worry as much about these things it should maybe behave like it does.

Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


QuarkJets posted:

Check the subject screen anyway; if you hover over the merchant icon for your trade company it should tell you what's going on

Upon loading up:


A second after unpausing:

Allyn
Sep 4, 2007

I love Charlie from Busted!

Mr. Fowl posted:

Upon loading up:


A second after unpausing:


Where's your capital? You have trade companies in both Africa and Asia, but shouldn't be able to have them in the same continent as your capital... Unless you moved it to Europe I'd guess it's because of that -- they should disband when you move capital but maybe it didn't work and now it's bugging out trying to sort that out?

Blorange
Jan 31, 2007

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Deltasquid posted:


Completely unrelated:



I'm Hungary. allied to Austria, Poland, Ragusa and France. The Ottomans are pushing into Italy and are twice as strong as I am, and Muscowy is allied with them. How would an experienced player fix this?

Rival Poland and ally Muscovy? It gives you an expansion route, an ally you can call into wars just by promising them Lithuania, and breaks off the Ottoman threat.

Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


Allyn posted:

Where's your capital? You have trade companies in both Africa and Asia, but shouldn't be able to have them in the same continent as your capital... Unless you moved it to Europe I'd guess it's because of that -- they should disband when you move capital but maybe it didn't work and now it's bugging out trying to sort that out?

My capital is Taiz. It's in Asia. But I'll see if moving the capital does anything because who knows at this point.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


Blorange posted:

Rival Poland and ally Muscovy? It gives you an expansion route, an ally you can call into wars just by promising them Lithuania, and breaks off the Ottoman threat.

Muscowy and Ottomans both rivaled me, Poland and France so I think my current hugbox is what I need to stay alive right now. I think I'll try a hellwar with the Ottomans when the opportunity presents itself.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

RabidWeasel posted:

Because it's extremely relevant to my most recent game: the state system is cool and good but it's so loving annoying when you're a duchy and only have 5 states allowed in the early game. It takes 300 development to promote to a kingdom, but you can easily be bumping up against the state limit with half of that. It makes the early game as some minors even more tedious because you can quickly get to a point where your returns from taking additional provinces go to virtually nothing since you can't state them.

The state limit ought to be a soft cap instead just like force limits. If you go above the cap, global state maintenance should increase progressively. Or maybe cause an increase to yearly corruption.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Fister Roboto posted:

The state limit ought to be a soft cap instead just like force limits. If you go above the cap, global state maintenance should increase progressively. Or maybe cause an increase to yearly corruption.
And if you are under the state cap it should grant some sort of progressive bonus (maybe replace the default bonuses that OPMs get so its less of a drop off if you go from an OPM to a 3PM).

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

Fighting the Ottomans is such a slog. I've eaten about half their Turkish lands as The Mamluks and they still have more troops than me, higher income and more forcelimit.

The actual wars aren't really that tricky since I can usually get Commonwealth and Austria to join in and Ottomans aren't really allied to anyone special after I broke them up with Muscovy. Next war I'm planning on grabbing Constantinople and seeing if that doesn't cripple their economy a bit.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

And if you are under the state cap it should grant some sort of progressive bonus (maybe replace the default bonuses that OPMs get so its less of a drop off if you go from an OPM to a 3PM).

I don't want to have to do any mental math to figure out if stating a territory is worth it.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017


Fister Roboto posted:

The state limit ought to be a soft cap instead just like force limits. If you go above the cap, global state maintenance should increase progressively. Or maybe cause an increase to yearly corruption.

State limit is already a soft cap, you can perfectly well own clay you can't state yet. And if expansion outside your state limit is your thing, you would perhaps reasonably say "well then I'll just state the wealthy stuff to not break the bank", but stating gives a bunch of other benefits like more manpower and autonomy loss that will generally make it worthwhile to state even if it's at a loss.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Dance Officer posted:

State limit is already a soft cap, you can perfectly well own clay you can't state yet. And if expansion outside your state limit is your thing, you would perhaps reasonably say "well then I'll just state the wealthy stuff to not break the bank", but stating gives a bunch of other benefits like more manpower and autonomy loss that will generally make it worthwhile to state even if it's at a loss.

Being able to pay more money for more manpower would be a good thing.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

You already can, through barracks and mercenaries. I don't see what soft state caps would add other than nullifying the whole point of the system once you got past a certain income level.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

It's not nullifying the whole point though. It's being able to make a tradeoff, which is kind of the whole thing strategy games are about. Like you could just as easily say that mercenaries "nullify" the whole point of manpower (they don't).

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Drilling is cool and also good.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

Fister Roboto posted:

It's not nullifying the whole point though. It's being able to make a tradeoff, which is kind of the whole thing strategy games are about. Like you could just as easily say that mercenaries "nullify" the whole point of manpower (they don't).

Mercenaries don't nullify manpower at all, they're very clearly worse but useful as a stop-gap so that all gameplay doesn't just come to a screeching halt when your manpower runs out. Letting you go over the state cap though would mean every large rich nation (i.e. the nations that state caps were put in place for in the first place) would just go over it, because trading between money (easy to get at that size) and manpower (harder to get) is a no-brainer. Unless you made going over the state cap so punishingly expensive that it would be a pointless addition in the first place.

oddium
Feb 20, 2006


if you have hostile core creation +50% in your national ideas

i hate you

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

I really wish they'd at least change it to only be one of those province-culture modifiers that got added in Mandate of Heaven, so you could still have expensive cores on your actual poo poo but not just spread it around like the plague.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



uPen posted:

Drilling is cool and also good.


Drill baby! Harder, faster!

Those are some insane AI levels of stats.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Koramei posted:

Mercenaries don't nullify manpower at all

Yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. Why is turning money into manpower fine in one way (mercs) but not in another (paying more state maintenance)?

Trading money for manpower is not always a no brainer. They just added a huge money sink in upgrading advisers, and there are plenty of other things to spend money on beside that.

bees everywhere
Nov 18, 2002



I'm itching to get a new MP game going, these new mechanics throw a wrench into the current strategy of "expand fast, get rich, and use endless merc armies to send millions of men to their deaths in 30 year hell wars." Although in the early game I think it's safe to ignore drilling altogether since that money is much better off being invested in buildings and you're going to need mercs anyway for offensive wars, unless you're waiting for your manpower to reach 100% every time.

Hryme
Nov 4, 2009


I am not getting a merchant for having over 50 percent trade power in the South Africa Trade Company Region. Even though it says in the trade screen that I should get one. Did they change that in this update and forget to update the UI or is it a bug?

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

uPen posted:

Drilling is cool and also good.



All drilling seems to do for me is kill my generals. I think I've had 1 stat upgrade vs at least 6 dead generals.

Still gonna keep on drilling though.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Hryme posted:

I am not getting a merchant for having over 50 percent trade power in the South Africa Trade Company Region. Even though it says in the trade screen that I should get one. Did they change that in this update and forget to update the UI or is it a bug?
Someone else reported that in this thread, no idea what the issue is though.

David Corbett
Feb 6, 2008

Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.


Mountaineer posted:

I forget exactly, but it was somewhere between 1560 and 1580. That was with me deliberately trying to focus on Professionalism: never hiring mercenaries, always drilling as many troops as possible during peace time, always hiring generals up to my leader limit. I was the Mamluks, though, not every nation can afford to do what I did. Still, I think reaching 100 Professionalism by 1600 or so is entirely reasonable for just about anyone who makes it a priority.

This matches my experience with France. The last 20% was the quickest. Most of the events from high professionalism seem to be generally negative, though I have been getting a bunch of spies idgaf about.

MrBling posted:

All drilling seems to do for me is kill my generals. I think I've had 1 stat upgrade vs at least 6 dead generals.

Still gonna keep on drilling though.

Yyyyyup. So, naturally, every poo poo monarch I get (which seems like just about all of them... meanwhile, BWB is walking around with 6/6/6) gets to drill.

David Corbett fucked around with this message at Nov 19, 2017 around 20:30

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


MrBling posted:

All drilling seems to do for me is kill my generals. I think I've had 1 stat upgrade vs at least 6 dead generals.

Still gonna keep on drilling though.
"You sure this is what he meant by drilling?"
/

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Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

FAAAATHEEER
THE SLEEEEEEPER HAS *snooze*




If I try to change the ruler's religion to Sunni with the national decision, I take a 2 stab hit and no change takes place.

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