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sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


I don't know if this requires parliamentary approval, directive if not, act if so:

Neighborhood Watch Program

1. Each precinct of the NSP will establish a neighborhood watch program.

2. These bodies will serve as community auxiliary forces, but be imbued with no actual law enforcement powers.

3. Precinct commanders will have the authority to create individual programs as they see fit to maximize effectiveness and community engagement.

---------------

From: Radek, Minister of Internal Security
To: Commissioner Eager, NFP

From my reports, you should be operational next month, at which point we shall begin in earnest. Prepare your men, and make any requests you think may be useful - while we may not be going after the biggest fish straight off, I expect us to make quite a splash.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




Comrade Bookchin
Peoples Assembly of Sard


after speaking, a tablet is handed into Bookchin's hands describing the recent announcement from Panorama

Y'know, scratch everything I said. I'll have what they are having and introduce a document for the Sard Municipal Government:

- In accordance with the People's Assembly Act, the Sard Municipal Government [SMP], consisting of the votes of every resident above the age of 16, is now the legitimate ruling body of the town of Panorama and its surrounding valley, and claims all powers and responsibilities not provided for by the national Parliament.

- In accordance with the will of the SMP, all government actions, purchases, and edicts are to originate from and be legitimated by the direct votes of its citizens, requiring a simple majority to pass. A proposal will be available for public consideration for three weeks before it is voted on.

- To assist with self-governance, a 30-person advisory committee will provide commentary and suggestions when requested on subjects falling under its expertise. The committee is made up of the heads of local schools, hospitals, energy and transportation utilities, the CLF garrison commander, and elected leaders from the region's ten largest businesses. The advisory committee chair has the power to waive the standard three-week consideration period for any proposal. The advisory committee chair position will be up for re-election every two years, and anyone meeting the regular voting requirements is eligible for nomination. The chair position is subject to recall by simple majority vote of the committee, and any member of the committee is subject to recall by the SMP in a simple majority vote.

-In accordance with the will of the SMP, the ownership of private property is abolished, effective immediately. All former private property is held in a common collective management fund owned by the SMP, and all businesses are directed to vote on their own wages and structures, with all employees given a single vote. The SMP is now the sole "owner" of all businesses and land. A special committee will hear claims for compensation.

- To ensure an adequate standard of living, the SMP is responsible for determining the material needs of its average citizen, and producing food, medicine, education, security, housing, clothing, and entertainment to meet these needs. Only after these basic needs are met are surplus commodities to be exchanged on the market.

- In accordance with the Peoples Assembly Act, the SMP is willing to confederate with other Sirtan Assemblies into a Sirtan Municipal Confederation to help manage resources and goods between regions more efficiently.

I will leave the option for riders open for the rest of the Sard assembly to propose.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?







Well, the sentiment is certainly admirable.... but I'm not entirely sure that we can so easily scale the system up to the largest city on the planet just like that. We'll be needing quite a few tweaks, but I am very pleased with the general thrust of policy.

Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at Jan 8, 2018 around 23:24

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


The sentiments are quite admirable, but the implementation is hasty. Let us build our future brick by brick in a sustainable fashion rather than attempt to win it all in a single, premature, massive blow.

Perhaps encouraging workers cooperatives, or something along those lines.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010





I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with regards to how admirable the sentiments being expressed are. Speaking frankly, Bookchin is blindly pursuing ideology, with no consideration for practicality. Disregarding that he did not even take the time to proofread his own proposal, thus establishing Sard as, and I quote, "the legitimate ruling body of the town of Panorama and its surrounding valley", there are two items in his proposal that stand out as particularly egregious, and while I am not a resident of Sard, nor do I think his proposals will pass, I think they speak to a mindset that I have been repeatedly frustrated by in my time in government, and as such I feel the need to express my concerns publically.

The first, as you might guess, is the provision for the immediate abolishment of private property in Sard. Firstly, I would like to point out that this is written as an incredible logistical nightmare. The government would suddenly be handling multiple times as many properties as was already the case, and I sincerely do not believe it presently has the capability to do so. But besides that, there is the question of compensation, mentioned as an afterthought, that particularly concerns me. Sard does not have the funds necessary for the compensation--apparently to be determined after the individual has already been divested of their property, now stripped of resources and leverage--to be remotely fair. But this does not seem to concern Bookchin, nor the rest of the SRLF. Indeed, the issue of compensation for the Sirta's railroads has become a serious topic of discussion behind the doors of government--and the SRLF seem intent on skipping the bill.

I understand that there is little sympathy for its current owners--I concur that their horrific mismanagement of the railways has realistically left little choice besides nationalization, for the good of Sirta, and I bear little goodwill towards its former owners, and it was because of this that I quite rashly assented at the time that they proposed this dealbreaking, a lapse that I now regret. But what message does that send, that our government would so readily renege on a deal that they themselves wrote and enacted? Why would a person ever choose to do business in Sirta when the government has demonstrated that it would be willing to break its own guarantees to seize their investment? It would prove crippling to our economy. Promises must be kept.

It was with this in mind that I raised the issue of compensation in Sard to my colleagues in the SRLF, and the response I received was not reassuring. It was, to quote directly, "I'd say having all of your needs guaranteed to be provided for in all eternity is fair compensation." Which, I suppose might be a fine deal, assuming you are a resident of Sard. I live in Topaz, and Apex makes its headquarters there. I do, however, own considerable property in Sard, and in many other locations, because it turns out that's part of running a business on a national--and international--scale. And my case, I assure you, is hardly unique--and Sard does not have the funds for adequate compensation. What, then, does Bookchin propose? Shall the manufactories and offices in Sard simply be taken and formed into their own entity, made to directly compete with the body it was cut from, now with drastically fewer resources? Clearly it would not succeed, unless the SMP chose to take money from elsewhere to prop it up. Would it remain part of Apex but forced outside of any kind of organizational structure? Besides being damaging to the company, this would also simply punish the people of Sard for living in Sard--operating under extreme restrictions that much of the rest of Sirta would not be under. And in either case, why, besides sunk costs, would I choose to do business in Sard from that point?

My apologies for getting into technicalities. But I find that provision to be incredibly poorly conceived, and recklessly endangering to the well-being of our capital's citizens.

And then, there is the other, more subtle matter, of the proposed Sirtan Municipal Confederation. This, frankly, I see as little more than an attempt to undermine the authority of Parliament and weaken the strength of our central government. It is proposed as managing domestic trade, as Bookchin's original proposal made explicit. If all property is intended to belong to the state, and it is managed on a national level by a body wholly independent from Parliament, then what authority does Parliament--the democratically elected national government of Sirta--even have? Devolution of powers does not mean the creation of another state within Sirta, which is all that I can see this provision as.

I understand that my decision to speak up now, and publically, is going to be heavily criticized by others in government, but I believe it is my duty to speak my conscience regarding these matters.

The Lord of Hats fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 01:13

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?







The Lord of Hats posted:

But this does not seem to concern Bookchin, nor the rest of the SRLF. Indeed, the issue of compensation for the Sirta's railroads has become a serious topic of discussion behind the doors of government--and the SRLF seem intent on skipping the bill.

I understand that there is little sympathy for its current owners--I concur that their horrific mismanagement of the railways has realistically left little choice besides nationalization, for the good of Sirta, and I bear little goodwill towards its former owners, and it was because of this that I quite rashly assented at the time that they proposed this dealbreaking, a lapse that I now regret. But what message does that send, that our government would so readily renege on a deal that they themselves wrote and enacted? Why would a person ever choose to do business in Sirta when the government has demonstrated that it would be willing to break its own guarantees to seize their investment? It would prove crippling to our economy. Promises must be kept.


Comrade Luxemburg

Putting aside multiple other absurdities, this in particular strikes me as nothing but base reaction. The government has, this very month, put aside four million credits to be used as compensation for nationalized rail infrastructure. We will not be rewarding private entities for allowing critical infrastructure to decay to the point of being impassable or in some cases literally nonexistent, but we are keeping our promises.

I would appreciate if you would refrain from slandering the current government, of which you are a critical part let's not forget, just because it may at times attempt to turn a small fraction of your obscene wealth towards basic human survival.

Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 01:31

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.





Once again I am being slandered as blindly following ideology, of forcing my ideas in an undemocratic matter. I am tired of addressing such concerns when such insults are laced within, especially coming from a person who has no vote on the matter.

It is a proposal to the People's Assembly, to be decided upon democratically. It is also a work in progress subject to changes. Since the Sard assembly has yet to put up any proposals I decided to start it out.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


What is the current financial situation of Sard, specifically with regards to how much would be brought in via potential local income/sales taxes?

Otherwise I must agree with the counter sentiments raised by my colleagues. That Capital would defend Capital is no surprise, but should the esteemed minister wished a voice in the local governance of Sard he should have chosen to make his home among its people, instead of choosing his luxury countryside estate or wherever he chose to make it. The proposal on the floor is just that, a proposal - to be discussed and debated, alternate ideas heard and proposed, and consensus (Or the closest thing to it) reached among the people involved. This is the core of the Peoples Assembly - the people are now being entrusted with their own destiny, and we must continue the work of empowering them to the fullest.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


Due to unforeseen delays on my end, this drafting phase is extended until 19:30 UTC.

Member Stefan Borisov, chair of the Forward Development Group, submits the following bill for Parliament's consideration:

Property Appropriation Process Act posted:


Definitions for the purposes of this act:

- "local government" refers to any municipal government or People's Assembly.

- "private property" refers to any property legally owned by any person, group of persons, corporation or conglomerate not controlled by the Sirtan government, a local government or an organization legitimately acting on their behalf.

- "appropriation of property" refers to the seizure of private property without obtaining the owners' consent.

- "compensation" refers to a sum of New Sirtan Credits.

Provisions:

1. No local government shall appropriate private property outside of the process defined in this act, unless empowered to do so by another Act of Parliament.

2. A committee designated "The Property Appropriation Committee", henceforth referred to as "the committee" shall be established under the Ministry of Interior. The committee shall consist of 5 members nominated by the Minister of Interior and confirmed by the Guardian Council.

3. Any local government intending to appropriate property shall first submit a request to the committee, which shall, within 30 days, consider the circumstances behind the request and determine the appropriate size and distribution of the compensation among the property's owners.

4. Any property under the committee's consideration shall only be appropriated after the compensation determined by the committee is paid out in full by the local government.

5. The committee may decline to consider a request for the following reasons only:
(1). The property retaining its' current ownership is vital to Public Safety or to the security of the country and its' institutions, as determined by the Sensitive Information and Special Security Committee.
(2). The property is part of an ongoing police investigation.
(3). The property is declared to be exempt from appropriation requests by the Minister of Interior.

"In light of recent proposals brought in front of several People's Assemblies, I think the relationship between private property and local government ought to be more firmly defined in law." writes Member Borisov in his explanation of the bill, "Real harm can be done to our slowly recovering economy, if we don't provide firm guarantees that property rights will be respected in this country."

sniper4625 posted:

What is the current financial situation of Sard, specifically with regards to how much would be brought in via potential local income/sales taxes?

That depends on what rates you will set and how the taxes will be collected. Remember the scale of tax evasion before the Ministry of Finance's Taxation and Revenues division was bolstered and Bill F-1 was enacted. Overall, something between 20 million NSC to 70 million NSC can be expected, depending on how you do things.

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 13:43

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


At a glance, confirmation by the Guardian Council is out -

Amendment

Nominations must be made by the Prime Minister in conjunction with the Minister of the Interior and confirmed by Parliament. Commissioners serve two year terms.

--------

A tax proposal for Sard

9% on property above 500,000
9% on business
9% on income above 75,000

Workers Cooperatives and similar models will be exempt from business taxation. The local government will be empowered to audit anyone taking this exemption and levy the appropriate punishment for abuse.

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 14:34

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?







A Proposal for the Sard People's Assembly

- In accordance with the People's Assembly Act, the Sard Municipal Government [SMG], consisting of the votes of every resident above the age of 16, is now the legitimate ruling body of the City of Sard and its surrounding area, and claims all powers and responsibilities not provided for by the national Parliament.

- In accordance with the will of the SMG, all government actions, purchases, and edicts are to originate from and be legitimated by the direct votes of its citizens, requiring a simple majority to pass. A proposal will be available for public consideration for three weeks before it is voted on.

- To assist with self-governance, a 30-person advisory committee will provide commentary and suggestions when requested on subjects falling under its expertise. The committee is made up of the heads of local schools, hospitals, energy and transportation utilities, a representative of the local police, and elected leaders from the region's ten largest businesses. The advisory committee chair has the power to waive the standard three-week consideration period for any proposal. The advisory committee chair position will be up for re-election every two years, and anyone meeting the regular voting requirements is eligible for nomination. The chair position is subject to recall by simple majority vote of the committee, and any member of the committee is subject to recall by the SMG in a simple majority vote.

- No one is to work more than five days a week, or more than 6 hours a day, in any industry deemed non-critical by the SMG. Any industry deemed critical must limit a person to work no more than 12 hours a day, three days a week. An exemption may be secured by paying an employee up to four hours of overtime each week, with the employee's wages tripled during these hours.

-In accordance with the will of the SMG, the co-operative ownership of property is encouraged. All private businesses and corporations are encouraged to open up ownership to their respective workers and operate under the SMG.

-Any private property voluntarily sold to the SMG is to be held in a common collective management fund owned by the SMP. Any businesses, corporations or co-operatives sold to the SMP will become worker's cooperatives, with every employee given one vote.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition to Comrade Radek's 9-9-9 Plan, we propose the following:

- 90% Estate Tax on inherited wealth, with the first 750,000 NSC exempted.
- 50% tax on transfer of business assets exceeding 100,000 NSC in one year.
- Workers Cooperatives and similar models will pay no business/corporate tax for one full year, after which they will pay only half the rate
- Any business owner that sells their private property/business to the SMG or to their workers will be exempt from taxation on such sales.

Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 19:05

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




Bookchin
Peoples Assembly of Sard


While I am not happy with some of the provisions (or lack thereof), I know a compromise when I see one and will rescind my proposal and support Comrade Luxemburg's and Comrade Radek's proposals.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


The Making a Better Sard Together! movement is an activist group, mostly made up of former Popular Resistance activists, dedicated to improving everyday life in Sard "through the cooperation of motivated residents".

The movement has submitted several proposals to the Assembly's channel:

Effective Government posted:


* The Sard Executive Council (also referred to as the SEC) is hereby established to carry out the Assembly's decisions.

* The SEC shall consist of 18 members selected randomly from all residents who apply and confirmed by the Assembly.

* Every SEC member shall be subject to removal by the Assembly at any time.

* The SEC shall not have the authority to undertake any initiative not approved by the Assembly.

* Every member of the SEC shall be paid exactly one and a half times the average wage of all registered workers in Sard.


"Who is better suited to carrying out our will than we ourselves?"

Legal Counsel posted:


* The position of Sard Attorney is hereby established to represent the Assembly in court and offer advice on legal matters.

* Any applicant for the position must have at least 5 years of experience in court, a grasp of constitutional law and be certified by the New Sirtan Bar Association.

* The Sard Attorney will be randomly selected from among all qualified applicants and confirmed by the Assembly.

* The Sard Attorney shall be subject to removal by the Assembly at any time.

* The Sard Attorney shall be paid exactly one and a half times the average wage of all Sard residents approved by the New Sirtan Bar Association.

Sound Advice posted:


* The Professional Advisory Council (also referred to as PAC) is hereby established to advise the Assembly and review future proposals.

* The PAC shall consist of 17 members: 3 Sard University professors, 3 certified civil engineers, 2 architects, 3 small (under 15 employees) business owners, 3 police officers and 3 civil service workers.

* All PAC members shall be randomly selected from among qualified applicants and confirmed by the Assembly.

* Every PAC member shall be subject to removal by the Assembly at any time.

* Every PAC member shall be paid exact one and a half time the average wage for all Sard residents in their category.

Proper Taxation posted:


The Assembly shall rely on the Ministry of Finance's Taxation and Revenues division for the collection and enforcement of all local taxes.

Godlovesus
Oct 16, 2015

Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

In response to this somewhat...strange circumstances, I thought it best to clearly point out the National government’s duties in the following act

quote:

Bill G-1
An Act to better enumerate the powers of the National Government of Sirta

Short Title: This Act may be referred as to the National Powers Act

Section I: Preamble

A) Recognizing the existence of the People’s Assemblies,

B) Cognizant of the fact that local and National government priorities may diverge,

C) Aware of the current structure and powers granted to the National government through their existing ministries; Justice, Defense, Interior, Internal Security, Education, Health, Finance, Attorney General and Foreign Affairs.

D) Being aware that this list is not exhaustive and subject to change as seen fit by Parliament.

Section II: Definitions

Definitions for the purposes of this act:

“local government” refers to any municipal government or People’s Assembly

“National government” refers to any ministry or agency of the National government present and future
“powers” refers to the right to delegate, regulate, enforce and modify policy relating to a specified area unless otherwise specified by an Act of Parliament

Section III: Provisions

A. Reaffirms the following powers that currently are delegated to the sole jurisdiction of the National government in the current respective portfolios

I. The Ministry of Finance: including but not limited to;
i. All Taxation and Revenues
ii. Trade regulations
iii. Economic incentives and subsidies
iiii. Monetary policy through the Sirtan Central Bank
v. Economic Analysis

II. The Ministry of Education: including but not limited to;
i. Educational and Curriculum standards
ii. Research grants for education
iii. Public Education

III. The Ministry of Internal Security; Including but not limited to;
i. Law Enforcement and Investigation
ii. Correctional and Rehabilitation Services
iii. National Intelligence
iiii. Federal security and protective services

IIII. The Ministry of the Interior: including but not limited to;
i. Governmental registration, documentation and records
ii. Social welfare

V. The Ministry of Infrastructure: including but not limited to;
i. The Sirtan Transportation Network
ii. Public utilities
iii. Public Transit
iiii. Space Travel

VI. The Ministry of Defense: including but not limited to;
i. recruitment, procurement, training, deployment, standards, compensation and outreach regarding the armed forces

VII. The Ministry of Justice: including but not limited to;
i. Prosecution Services and Standards
ii. The Sirtan Court System
iii. The Truth and Reconciliation Committee

VIII. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs: including but not limited to;
i. Diplomatic relations with foreign nations
ii. Deployment and security of diplomatic Missions, foreign and domestic

IX. Any future powers established by an Act of Parliament

B. This bill confirms that any local government do not powers related to the jurisdictions listed above unless the National government has chosen to waive or devolve said powers onto the local government,
I. Any powers devolved must be granted and applied equally to all local governments, subject to a 4 year review by the National government

C. Local government powers may be used in conjunction (but not supplanting) National government powers to support national efforts, with oversight assigned to the various agencies depending on the subject matter

D. In matters of dispute between the local and federal government over the use of powers, the Constitutional Court may choose to hear the case in order to better define the scope of powers and their relative delegation.
I. Should the Constitutional Court choose not to hear a case, it is assumed that the powers remain with the National government.

Godlovesus fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 17:53

Godlovesus
Oct 16, 2015

Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

With regards to Parliament we currently have these bills on the floor for consideration:

The Property Appropriation Process Act submitted by Member Borisov
With an amendment by Member Radek

Bill G-1. Also known as the National Powers Act, submitted by Speaker Gen

There are also several local ivernment proposals for Sard such as those submitted by Prime Minister Luxembourg and The Better Government for Sard

Godlovesus fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 17:53

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




How nice of the Speaker to introduce a bill that "recognizes" public assemblies and local governing and then proceed to remove any and all powers that they previously had and place them into the hands of parliament! You could have made it simpler on yourself by just introducing a law banning any and all local governments and having Parliament oversee everything.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


To place a bill that on one hand reiterates the existing roles of government and on the other so radically and permanently subordinates the local to the central so close to the deadline (And thus past the point of meaningful debate) is poor form. I shall be voting no, but perhaps the issue may be revisited with more care in future sessions.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


The drafting phase is now over. The voting phase begins now and will last until Thursday - the 11th of January - at 16:30 UTC. The bills under consideration are:

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.

The proposals submitted to the People's Assembly of Sard are:

1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin.
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".

The proposals submitted to the People's Assembly of Panorama are:

1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by "the Panorama Regional Government".

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 19:44

tatankatonk
Nov 4, 2011

Pitching is the art of instilling fear.




Denver Axo votes Yes on the General Proposal on Government and Property.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


Double

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 14:20

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


PAPA: No. The matter requires far more discussion
My amendment: Yes. In case it passes anyway, let us not further empower the unelected.
G-1: A hundred times no. This last minute attempt to gut local government is so far against government policy it's amazing any minister would see fit to bring it forth without so much as a consultation first.

Local government I shall address seperately. All aye for the moment.

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 02:57

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. NAY
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY

The proposals submitted to the People's Assembly of Sard are:
All Ayes for the following:
1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin.
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?







1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. NAY
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY

While I don't intend to demean fellow members of Parliament, the immediate rush to essentially abolish all powers of the local governments the second one decides to do something unorthodox makes me worry just how committed to the ideals of freedom and self-determination this body really is.

Sard People's Assembly proposal:
1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin. AYE
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. AYE
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. AYE
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE

Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 15:21

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART



Danube, Minister of Interior

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
AYE (even if the amendment passes). This bill is imperative for the preservation of individual liberty under our new government. Some of the worst abuses of the Old Regime included the arbitrary theft of property by government officials, and I'm dismayed to see some of our local governments entertaining proposals to do just that. PAPA ensures that this can't happen. Yes, in this case, the theft is all democratic, but we have to protect our people from the tyranny of the majority. Even if a proposal to confiscate all private property passes with 99% of the vote in a locality, what happens to the one person who refuses to give up their property? The farmer who refuses to give up their field to the collective farm? Why, legally, the local militia would be obligated to come knocking at their door and force them to give it up. This would be an intolerable situation.

2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
AYE.

3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.
NAY. I'm not comfortable with the assumption of such sweeping powers by the national government over the local governments.

Pakled fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 15:52

AJ_Impy
Jun 17, 2007



Yam Slacker

Arthur Subtallier, Unity Coalition

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. NAY
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. ABSTAIN
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY

If this is the best we can manage, we are failing in our collective duty to the Sirtan people.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010




Rutherford Vanderbush, Citizen Seat


1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. AYE.
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY. I agree that a solid definition of national and local responsibilities is needed, but I think this bill is far too centralizing to provide effective governance.

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn


Soiled Meat

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. NAY
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY

mcclay fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 19:28

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

A step too far, I feel.

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. NAY
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. NAY

My apologies for my quietness during these debates.

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin. NAY
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. AYE
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. AYE
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. AYE
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE

Godlovesus
Oct 16, 2015

Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

I cast my vote in the following manner
1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov. AYE
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. NAY
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen. AYE


1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin. NAY
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek. Conditional AYE if Proper Taxation passes
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. NAY
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg. NAY
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!". AYE

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
nay
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
nay
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.
abstain

Could we have some way of actually linking to these bills in question in the big roundup posts. I have no idea where Bill G-1 was posted and I've searched the last couple of pages several times.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


unwantedplatypus posted:

1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
nay
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
nay
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.
abstain

Could we have some way of actually linking to these bills in question in the big roundup posts. I have no idea where Bill G-1 was posted and I've searched the last couple of pages several times.

Endorsed

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


It's on this page, about 15 posts before yours, right above my post about starting the voting phase. Though you aren't the first to have some trouble with locating bills recently, so I will definitely try and link to bills going forward.

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 16:40

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010



1.The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
Aye Without this, we have no restrictions on nationalization of property: As just demonstrated, Sard Assembly has the power to seize everything: not a state for a society to be in
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
Nay
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.
Aye

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

Loyal to the End


I'm glad the Honorable Opposition could stumble in, late again, to declare facts to have been demonstrated without them actually having been so.

The only thing demonstrated by the People's Assembly of Sard this session is the nascent spirit of democratic participation and consciousness that will prevent any who would see us return to the corrupt and venal days of the Dictator foiled in their unholy schemes.

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 17:22

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


May 3062 Parliament Votes:

The voting phase is over. Remember that, in the narrative, these votes were separate and took place over the duration of the month, rather than all at once.

Proposals under consideration:

1. The Property Appropriation Process Act, submitted by Member Borisov.
2. Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
3. Bill G-1, submitted by Minister of Finance ReSeuGen.

Party Breakdown:

* SRLF:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 18
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 18, Abstain 0, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 18

* Dawn:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 8, Abstain 0, Oppose 1
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 1, Abstain 8, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 9

* UCS:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 6, Abstain 0, Oppose 0
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 6
## Bill G-1 – Support 6, Abstain 0, Oppose 0

* FDG:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 6, Abstain 0, Oppose 0
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 3, Abstain 0, Oppose 3
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 6

* DAL:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 6
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 6, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 6

* FSP:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 3, Abstain 0, Oppose 0
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 3
## Bill G-1 – Support 3, Abstain 0, Oppose 0

* Unity Coalition:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 3
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 3

* KNK:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0

* The Community:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 3
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 0, Oppose 3
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0

* VM:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0
## Bill G-1 – Support 0, Abstain 3, Oppose 0


Guardian Council Appointments:

* Vera Albright:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Thomas Gill:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Frank Probst:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support

* Lucia Caldera:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Sander Hansen:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Oppose
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Lisa Wyatt:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support

* William Viner:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Roger Rockwell:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Janet Oliphant:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support

* Silvia Collins:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Rachel Hoffman:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Oppose
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Paul Thiede:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Della Jalbert:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Sofia Juhl:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support

* Jade Ross:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support

Citizen Seats:

* Rutherford T. Vanderbush:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Jessica Ramsey:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Oppose

* Susanne Brandt:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Autumn Black:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Abstain
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Abstain
## Bill G-1 – Abstain

* Grace Wright:
## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Oppose
## Bill G-1 – Support


Overall:

## Property Appropriation Process Act – Support 35, Oppose 33, Abstain 12
## Amendment to the Property Appropriation Act – Support 23, Oppose 23, Abstain 34
## Bill G-1 – Support 15, Oppose 50, Abstain 15

Outcome:

The following bills were passed into law:

* Property Appropriation Process Act

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Jan 11, 2018 around 19:01

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


May 3062 People’s Assemblies Votes:

In narrative, all listed votes represent not only the individual character’s vote but the votes of a segment of the population that voted similarly.

Sard:

Proposals:

1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by Minister of Education Bookchin.
2. Tax Plan, submitted by Minister of Internal Security Radek.
3. General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
4. Addition to the Tax Plan, submitted by Prime Minister Luxemburg.
5. Effective Government, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
6. Legal Counsel, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
7. Sound Advice, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".
8. Proper Taxation, submitted by "Making a Better Sard Together!".

Votes:

* Prime Minister Luxemburg:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Minster of Education Bookchin:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Minister of Internal Security Radek:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Minister of Finance ReSeAu Gen:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Oppose
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Oppose
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Oppose
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Minister of Health Dr. Xavier Dubois:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Oppose
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Member of Parliament Stefan Borisov:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Oppose
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Oppose
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

* Member of Parliament Lenore Hughes:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Oppose
## Tax Plan – Support
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support
## Effective Government – Support
## Legal Counsel – Support
## Sound Advice – Support
## Proper Taxation – Support

Total:

## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support 3, Oppose 4, Abstain 0
## Tax Plan – Support 7, Oppose 0, Abstain 0
## General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2 – Support 6, Oppose 1, Abstain 0
## Addition to the Tax Plan – Support 5, Oppose 2, Abstain 0
## Effective Government – Support 7, Oppose 0, Abstain 0
## Legal Counsel – Support 7, Oppose 0, Abstain 0
## Sound Advice – Support 7, Oppose 0, Abstain 0
## Proper Taxation – Support 7, Oppose 0, Abstain 0

Accepted Proposals:

* Tax Plan
* General Proposal on Government and Property v. 2
* Addition to the Tax Plan
* Effective Government
* Legal Counsel
* Sound Advice
* Proper Taxation

Panorama:

Proposals:

1. General Proposal on Government and Property, submitted by “the Panorama Regional Government”.

Votes:

* Citizen Denver Axo:
## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support

Total:

## General Proposal on Government and Property – Support 1, Oppose 0, Abstain 0

Accepted Proposals:

* General Proposal on Government and Property

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn


Soiled Meat

Minister Hill, after a long hiatus due to recieving treatment for injuries revcied during the revolution, is once again fully active in Sirtan government. While in revcovery he has applied for residence in his rural hometown of Venderstookburg

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


This month will last until Sunday - the 14th of January - at 19:00 UTC.

Aside from Ministers issuing directives they want to still happen in May, there are several things that need to be done:

1. A ceremony will be held tomorrow (on the 7th of May in-narrative, remember the time abstraction) to commemorate the anniversary of the coup which brought down the regime. If anyone wants to speak at the ceremony itself, send me your speech over discord and the Guardian Council will decide whether it's appropriate. Otherwise, you can speak over the SCN or at a non-government event.

2. Municipal elections will be held early next month in Opal, Topaz, Sapphire, Amber and Peridot. You have until the deadline above to provide party lists for the City Council elections and candidates for the Mayoral elections in as many of these cities as you like.

All candidates, both for Mayor and City Councils must be non-MP residents of the relevant city. If you want, you can prepare NPCs to fill these lists and candidacies, either designed or generic, though I will need names for Mayoral candidates. Mayoral candidates may run with or without being affiliated with a specific party.

This is another oportunity for non-MP players to engage with the game.

3. The Minister of Interior must provide his nominations for the newly created Property Appropriation Committee.

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2018 around 11:23

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unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

It should not go beyond the notice of this parliament that Guardian Council appointees heavily tipped the scales in favor of PAPA. These non-democratically elected seats allowed this piece of legislation to pass.

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