Dapper_Swindler posted:

adams is giant thin skinned prick who was petty as gently caress

Dapper_Swindler posted:

jefferson was just a weird but gifted goon who was a massive hypocrite about pretty much everything who jerked off to the idea of super agrarian perpetual revolution society and was also a rapist.

Willie Tomg posted:

this is the thread for talking about The Original Founding Fathers Of Our Uniquely American Experiment In Personal Freedom, Who Are All Cool Except For The Ones Who Disagreed With The Cool Ones Which Was All Of Them, Depending Upon Who You Ask

gently caress long OPs

i, for one, am a tremendous whore for HBO's John Adams because its primarily a film-nerd's dream of a long form dramatic series about a lawyer's professional life in colonial america, secondarily an utterly unromantic view of the revolution and its purportedly heroic leading figures as well as some of the unsung diplomatic moves which arguably may or may not have allowed it space to do its thing, and tertiarily a venue for Paul Giamatti to shout at Hillary Clinton's self-appointed historical stand-in about intervention in Syria or maybe France. idk, we as a nation seem with an ocean on either contested border never really seem to get away from the conversation in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaWBs46USqE

quaternarily it has the best depiction of historically accurate dentistry in cinema. especially in versailles. you can smell the periodontal disease through the screen. yeesh. i am basically starting this thread as a safe space to effuse about it to an embarassing degree.

here's some heartstoppingly congenial conversation to prime the pump, as it were!!!! at the very least this saves the saudi arabia thread from talking about the founding fathers more!


you're an alright poster but there's this perpetually shocked and reactive tone pervading your constituent posts--usually framed around a groundless declarative statement of some kind--about current events in general and this is a good example of it regarding past events in particular.

instead of "this dude's rear end is terminally chapped, gently caress that guy and his rashy, smelly-yet-dry rear end" you should be like "why is john adams such a prick? what's that guy's damage?" and the answers to that are probably really interesting and humanizing, and fill in a lot of gaps in what would otherwise be a seriously confusing narrative of events.

so just do that, but for everything IRL and offline, forever. there's no money in it, you will receive no recognition, there is no prize of any kind that you wouldn't have otherwise received anyway through social networking. but you'll have a seemingly precognitive sense for human bullshit after a decade and, more importantly, be really fun to talk to in bars. though won't get laid, not that way anyway.


but you repeat yourself, lmao

RandomPauI posted:

Serious question, would any of the founders actually be on board with Donald Trump's administration and actions?

Willie Tomg posted:

Half the founding fathers would have a stroke on the spot to see the usa on the world stage such as it is, before they even found out what a reality tv show was, before they even found out who was sitting in what was originally a fairly checked executive seat.

This is why founding father discussion is interesting. As opposed to *whips out pocket Constitution at the democratic convention* poo poo.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i like to think Franklin would adapt to modern times.

Yandat posted:

thomas paine was alright

Willie Tomg posted:

Franklin stands in amber, astride time--loving it.

another point in favor of hbo's john adams: you get to see franklin cuck the king of france whilst wearing an utterly personage-inappropriate coonskin cap. i mean come on. come on.

Yandat posted:

thomas paine was alright

Willie Tomg posted:

Franklin stands in amber, astride time--loving it.

another point in favor of hbo's john adams: you get to see franklin cuck the king of france whilst wearing an utterly personage-inappropriate coonskin cap. i mean come on. come on.

Yandat posted:

thomas paine was alright

Dapper_Swindler posted:

didnt the coon skin cap become a fad in france then.


thats loving bullshit. he was loving amazing.

RandomPauI posted:

Serious question, would any of the founders actually be on board with Donald Trump's administration and actions?

Rand alPaul posted:

John Adams was cool. His son was even cooler.

The Constitution still being used

Modern American posted:

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

Founding Father posted:

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red?

A Buttery Pastry posted:

LegoPirateNinja posted:

Hamilton was one of the first american leaders to explicitly gently caress over the working man in favor of the bond holders.

Soldiers of the revolutionary war were paid in bonds redeemable as soon as the United States was able to cash them. That took a few years. Soldiers, who are not rich, needed cash and could not afford to wait, so they most of them sold their bonds to speculators at 10-20% face value.

Madison was in favor of paying the soldiers no matter what they did with the bonds, because it was right thing to do. Hamilton, being a colossal piece of poo poo, argued that no, it was soldiers' own fault for not having faith in America, and so only the bondholders were paid and the speculators made out like bandits. Sound familiar?

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

hbo's john adams is good

LegoPirateNinja posted:

Hamilton was one of the first american leaders to explicitly gently caress over the working man in favor of the bond holders.

Soldiers of the revolutionary war were paid in bonds redeemable as soon as the United States was able to cash them. That took a few years. Soldiers, who are not rich, needed cash and could not afford to wait, so most of them sold their bonds to speculators at 10-20% face value.

Madison was in favor of paying the soldiers no matter what they did with the bonds, because it was right thing to do. Hamilton, being a colossal piece of poo poo, argued that no, it was soldiers' own fault for not having faith in America, and so only the bondholders were paid and the speculators made out like bandits. Sound familiar?

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

wait franklin though the Red Race was also superior? lol

Whorelord posted:

for jefferson:

General Dog posted:

This made me look it up, and apparently Sally Hemings was 3/4 white- her dad and maternal grandfather were both white slaveowners. This begs the question- was there a magic point after x many generations of master-slave boning where people would eventually say, "okay this is ridiculous, this is a full-on white person and it's weird for them to be a slave"?

quote:

It has also been documented that on innumerable occasions, that white woman also had affairs with enslaved black men. A divorce petition from Virginia reads: that a Norfolk white man asserted in 1835 that his wife had “lived for the last six or seven years and continues to live in an open adultery with a Negro man…”

Often Sexual relations between enslaved African men and white women went undetected because the children resulting from such unions were light enough to pass for white. One White man testified that when his white wife first gave birth to a mulatto he “did not at first doubt it to be his, notwithstanding its darkness of color, and its unusual appearance.”

One example that will surely give you a chuckle was how one white woman in the eighteenth century Virginia who had a mulatto child convinced her husband that the child was dark because someone had cast a spell on her. He believed this story for 18 years.

General Dog posted:

This made me look it up, and apparently Sally Hemings was 3/4 white- her dad and maternal grandfather were both white slaveowners. This begs the question- was there a magic point after x many generations of master-slave boning where people would eventually say, "okay this is ridiculous, this is a full-on white person and it's weird for them to be a slave"?

General Dog posted:

This made me look it up, and apparently Sally Hemings was 3/4 white- her dad and maternal grandfather were both white slaveowners. This begs the question- was there a magic point after x many generations of master-slave boning where people would eventually say, "okay this is ridiculous, this is a full-on white person and it's weird for them to be a slave"?