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Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
:stare: Why are you making me wishlist another game? I remember when Bobby Two Hands released that spite-proof-of-concept.

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Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

Turin Turambar posted:

In non Dominions news, I intended to ask people what do they think of
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1741640/Shadows_of_Forbidden_Gods/

is anyone on the Early Access?

RPS happens to have made an article today
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-rally-point-shadows-of-forbidden-gods-exhibits-the-power-of-evil-chaos-theory

Also drat you and thank you for posting about this game. Played the demo and was immediately hooked.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Turin Turambar posted:

In non Dominions news, I intended to ask people what do they think of
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1741640/Shadows_of_Forbidden_Gods/

is anyone on the Early Access?

RPS happens to have made an article today
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-rally-point-shadows-of-forbidden-gods-exhibits-the-power-of-evil-chaos-theory

I don't see a way to adjust resolution, not even a txt file in the directory. If the game is going to force-letterbox itself the least they could do would be to let me run it windowed.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


I suppose it will allow it one day, right now it's terribly early access, so I couldn't window it and have a guide or something on the side, I had to learn myself how to make a Chosen One go insane and eat his family members.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
I detonated a volcano right under the alliance's capital city while their army was away on crusade. Game owns.

Sorry to anyone waiting on me to take my dominions turns. :v:

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

That does look pretty cool. I'm probably gonna wait on actually playing Shadows of the Forbidden Gods for a bit, but as a Dominions nerd it seems like a really compelling alternative take on the "play an unsealed god who's going to ruin everything" game.

Dominions appeals to me more on an aesthetic level, and I like the option to play a less-awful pretender with positive scales who might theoretically leave the world a nicer place, but the functioning complexity we see in these Bobby Two Hands games absolutely wows me.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
In muktiplayer, even pretenders with positive scales usually have to end up doing all sorts of horrible things to win.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
The Rube Goldberg machines you can put together in Shadows are just glorious. Won my first game with Vinerva by setting up a couple of agents with might-focused kits in advance of a massive civil war, then sent the agents across the unengaged neighbor nations in a bloody spree of torched farms and murdered heroes. The Chosen One eventually hunted the two down, triggering Infamous twice to massively lower world panic... at which point my other agents, now totally under the radar, could happily churn out power via dark rituals in desecrated holy sites. That power went into a huge gift binge that the rulers of two continents were happy to accept en mass due to the low world panic and widespread devastation from the war.

At which point two continents became twisted woodlands overnight. Fun fact: the victory point tracker stops counting at 100% even when you blow well past it. :v:

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Corbeau posted:

The Rube Goldberg machines you can put together in Shadows are just glorious. Won my first game with Vinerva by setting up a couple of agents with might-focused kits in advance of a massive civil war, then sent the agents across the unengaged neighbor nations in a bloody spree of torched farms and murdered heroes. The Chosen One eventually hunted the two down, triggering Infamous twice to massively lower world panic... at which point my other agents, now totally under the radar, could happily churn out power via dark rituals in desecrated holy sites. That power went into a huge gift binge that the rulers of two continents were happy to accept en mass due to the low world panic and widespread devastation from the war.

At which point two continents became twisted woodlands overnight. Fun fact: the victory point tracker stops counting at 100% even when you blow well past it. :v:

Bobby Two-Hands really did bring That Which Sleeps to life, didn't he?

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

Ynglaur posted:

In muktiplayer, even pretenders with positive scales usually have to end up doing all sorts of horrible things to win.

If nothing else, you're sure to get some events where your civ does some questionable stuff. Love to play an angel trying to institute luxury Fata Morgana automated utopia in the provinces only to be interrupted by a message that my governor sent some blood slaves to my dungeon. Hmmm, why do we have blood slave dungeons here anyways?

Order scales can give you all kinds of stuff where your government enslaves or robs people, and your pretender looks the other way because they get a cut of the profits.

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017

Muuch Muuch

avoraciopoctules posted:

If nothing else, you're sure to get some events where your civ does some questionable stuff. Love to play an angel trying to institute luxury Fata Morgana automated utopia in the provinces only to be interrupted by a message that my governor sent some blood slaves to my dungeon. Hmmm, why do we have blood slave dungeons here anyways?

Order scales can give you all kinds of stuff where your government enslaves or robs people, and your pretender looks the other way because they get a cut of the profits.

The Ascension War is not a nice time to set up a utopian social reform unless you're playing Pangaea

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
And in that case the forces of capitalism other nations will join to beat you down

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

I have found that scales+turtling works very well in single-player, which is most of what I play in Dominions. The AI's resource bonuses mean you are fending off tons of mixed doomstacks of regular troops, so maintaining a resilient border defense with a critical mass of mages + PD at choke points is very important to keep from getting overwhelmed.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

avoraciopoctules posted:

I have found that scales+turtling works very well in single-player, which is most of what I play in Dominions. The AI's resource bonuses mean you are fending off tons of mixed doomstacks of regular troops, so maintaining a resilient border defense with a critical mass of mages + PD at choke points is very important to keep from getting overwhelmed.

tbh, I've found the only thing you need to do in single player is know how to use your mages and plan your reasearch reasonably, as the AI can't

the AI having tons of units and mages doesn't mean anything since most of the time, proper scripting will just obliterate huge stacks all at once

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

The main challenge is making sure your proper scripting actually makes it to the enemy. I've played some big maps where the enemy has like 30 large armies threatening me, and maybe double that again in minor raiding groups. You can definitely trounce a few different hordes every turn, but if you don't have a good handle on the strategic map you can lose a lot of territory to the sea of hostile stacks and start to take big economic damage.

That's why choke points are so valuable against AI. If you can set up someplace they have to engage you, you won't have to worry about them sending 5 armies into your heartland while you're busy wiping out 1 in a different chunk of the map. Human players will be more proactive about not walking into your carefully reinforced hell province without softening it up with ritual magic attacks first.

Of course, the smaller the map you play on, the less time high-difficulty AI has to capitalize on its economic advantage. Short and medium length games don't have to worry about enemy empires who forted several hundred provinces and can afford to reliably max out the recruitment for each of them. If you only have to worry about being outnumbered 2-5 times, you can probably get by neglecting the strategic map if you deploy strong magical support to your armies.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

avoraciopoctules posted:

The main challenge is making sure your proper scripting actually makes it to the enemy. I've played some big maps where the enemy has like 30 large armies threatening me, and maybe double that again in minor raiding groups. You can definitely trounce a few different hordes every turn, but if you don't have a good handle on the strategic map you can lose a lot of territory to the sea of hostile stacks and start to take big economic damage.

But enough about Sceleria. :v:

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017

Muuch Muuch
Well CoE got an update

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
In other news, I can honestly recommend never ever playing a sabbath nation. Blood slave micro sucks.

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth

Corbeau posted:

In other news, I can honestly recommend never ever playing a sabbath nation. Blood slave micro sucks.

Sabbaths really should have the slave requirement removed. Like, "oh yeah and they make a little cut on their hand to get the blood for the communion" is explanation enough.

Ristolaz
Sep 29, 2005

By completely blowing off my BS you have passed the first trial
Agreed also because sabbath master and slave cost 100 fatigue so your communion starts off heavily loaded already and there are circumstances where you will actually pass out right after casting them, like if you are B1 and in cold scales

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
Anything that makes blood worse is good and should be promoted

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

Amuys posted:

Well CoE got an update

Oooh, that actually looks pretty cool. Monkey nations are here! New planar island for their gods, too.

quote:

Hi,
With the 5.17 update a new class is added. It its the first of two monkey factions.
The Monkey Maharaja, or Bandaraja, has similarities with the Dominions 5 nation of Bandar Log, but has better regular troops.
It is a hybrid (warlord/summon) faction, with good recruitables and somewhat expensive (gem) summons.
Iron is important. Your best troops (only recruitable f you have a Bandaraja) costs iron.
Most of its summons are 'hidden' behind other summons. You will need an upgraded Yogi (a Guru) to summon commanders, who can summon beings of their gem affiliation.
You do not start with a yogi, but have increased chances of recruiting one as long as you don't have one.
If your guru is upgraded to a Rishi you can summon more powerful akashic beings or even the gods of Devaloka. The Nataraja can take on the aspect of the Destroyer and end the world.

The other monkey faction, the Raksharaja, will appear in the next major update. It will feature Rakshasas and have some similarities with the Lanka nation of Dominions 5.

Sounds like your Bandar gorillas might be on par with dai bakemono. Has anyone else tried playing maharaja yet? How fungible are these apes?

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth
Oh gently caress, monkey nations? drat, I'm going to have to get CoE on sale sometime, now.

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

How are u posted:

Oh gently caress, monkey nations? drat, I'm going to have to get CoE on sale sometime, now.

There's allegedly a karma mechanic for your mage/priests. You want to avoid letting them make attacks against anything but skeletons or robots, or they lose the ability to respawn and keep their magic powers. Delightful jank from the intersection of lore and mechanics ensues

quote:

Is there a way to clear your karma, though?

I understand how you should not hurt living beings to be successful dharmic thug. I like the mechanic and how it encourages you to promote low-level casters or use library to fill their starting sets with non-offensive spells. But creeping raven summons, lucky confusions and Death Rays do happen to trigger the least expected melee, even on the Rishi tier.

Which immediatly makes me sad and wanting to clear my criminal record with some puppy cuddling, helping some elderies across, or, maybe, buying some mighty artifact with the ton of gold taken from the petty labourers and their honest work.

Ok, jokes aside: is it even possible to clear bad karma at the moment?

quote:

Gurus and Rishis who have committed evil deeds reincarnate as Atavi Chiefs and lose the reincarnation trait.
Traditional sources emphasize that evil deeds may have negative karmic effects for millions of reincarnations. If Gurus and Rishis were able to do penance then the traits of reincarnation and immortality would be practically the same.

quote:

Is it WAD that the inhabit jungle ability of the yaksha can only be cast in a lake?
It's a bug, likely because it was copied from the Yakshini's ritual (inhabit lake)

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

avoraciopoctules posted:

Sounds like your Bandar gorillas might be on par with dai bakemono. Has anyone else tried playing maharaja yet? How fungible are these apes?

They're pretty solid fighters for sure. The bakemono comparison is very apt. Particularly noteworthy is that their archers (apart from the lovely chaff ones) are all surprisingly capable in melee as well, making them quite good at defending fortified locations or mopping up enemies that break through the frontline. The big expensive gorilla archers are absolute shitwreckers, like crossbowmen who don't need to reload and completely beat rear end in melee. You only get 3 per recruitment, but they're so diesel that it feels like a good deal as long as you have some disposable troops to keep the worst of the heat off them. Human mercenaries are great for this.

The summons are neat. Definitely not Warlock tier (but then, what is) but versatile and reliable for what you spend. Seems like a very solid faction, all told.

e: bad karma usually isn't too hard to avoid if you keep your guru behind lots of minions. Just don't let him use Mind Burn and he's pretty unlikely to directly hurt anyone. If he ends up in melee somehow you have already hosed up and are dealing with problems in this life, not the next one

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 5, 2022

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008
The Bandar archers are great in ship to ship combat. Powerful bows and lot of HP in the spaces. Massing archers is very easy with the Atavi and Markata to a lesser degree. 40 G for 5 Atavi and 50 g for 15 markata.

You definitely want to push Iron as hard as possible, when you get your first Yogi you will unlock your gem income. Make sure not to lose this Yogi, I did not get my first one until early mid-game. Their magic system isn't too fleshed out, just a lot of summons (unless I'm missing a specific summon that unlocks more ritual spells). It's pretty much minor, regular, and major summoning + scrying spells. One nice thing is that they can use any gem which allows for quick mid-tier mage spamming once you have a decent economy.


Oh one big thing to be aware of, you need to own a temple in order for a mage to reincarnate. You lose them otherwise.

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017

Muuch Muuch
https://steamcommunity.com/app/722060/discussions/0/3190242354896382168/
Apparently the beta testers brought this up and the devs sorta shrugged so maybe bless modding in the future?

Guy P. McMan
Sep 29, 2011
Oven Wrangler

Amuys posted:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/722060/discussions/0/3190242354896382168/
Apparently the beta testers brought this up and the devs sorta shrugged so maybe bless modding in the future?

The future is now! https://github.com/Logg-y/blessmodder

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
More blesses and especially bless modding are #1 on my Dom6 wish list.

Ham Cheeks
Nov 18, 2012

Feeling hammy
I bought DOM5 yesterday and have been messing around, it's fun even though I dunno what I'm doing. I picked MA R'yleh and figured I'd grab as many water provinces as possible and then attack the mainland. Things were going good, figured out how to build stuff in my provinces, figured out how to research, watched Jotun slowly destroy the independents on the mainland, and then all of my units died and I lost.

10/10 would die mysteriously again

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=
If that happened in a single turn and it was a few dozen turns in, and you were on a small enough map, it's possible that the AI simply captured all the thrones, thus ascending to godhood and leaving you behind.

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

Definitely a possibility. I believe you can turn thrones off or change the number required for victory in the world setup options.

If you want to try another option for an easier game to learn the basics, you could try doing a team "disciples" game with some AI buddies.

I've been a little tempted to try a gimmick campaign where I play the disciple of a randomized AI boss god, but I never got around to it. I figure that trying to failure-proof my faction would look a little differently than a usual pretender build, I'd probably focus on magic diversity enough to search out sites and transition into a gem economy. Then, even if your boss has dominion candles that kill everything, you can still bring in new commanders at a reasonable pace.

Ham Cheeks
Nov 18, 2012

Feeling hammy
Okay, yeah it was definitely a loss to the thrones.

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=

Ham Cheeks posted:

Okay, yeah it was definitely a loss to the thrones.

Being stuck in the water while the land players ignore you and just take the thrones is a good primer to playing uw nations in multiplayer.

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

gonadic io posted:

Being stuck in the water while the land players ignore you and just take the thrones is a good primer to playing uw nations in multiplayer.

finally realizing why I like them now

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

Mater Dolorosa
Slight tangent but that Shadow of Forgotten Gods game looks neat. Is there any reason to get Shadow Behind the Throne II first? Like is it a similar but distinct game, or is it a Dominions 4/5 situation where basically there is no reason to not just get Forgotten Gods as its an iteration?

pedro0930
Oct 15, 2012

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

Slight tangent but that Shadow of Forgotten Gods game looks neat. Is there any reason to get Shadow Behind the Throne II first? Like is it a similar but distinct game, or is it a Dominions 4/5 situation where basically there is no reason to not just get Forgotten Gods as its an iteration?

From my understanding Shadow Behind the Throne is more about getting your guy into position of power to wreck humanity from within, while Forgotten God is more about covert action to bring about the apocalypse.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



RoboChrist 9000 posted:

Slight tangent but that Shadow of Forgotten Gods game looks neat. Is there any reason to get Shadow Behind the Throne II first? Like is it a similar but distinct game, or is it a Dominions 4/5 situation where basically there is no reason to not just get Forgotten Gods as its an iteration?

Forbidden, not Forgotten.



:P

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

So. Conquest of Elysium 5’s monkey priests reincarnate if they don’t cast coolzone spells. This means immortality, but keyed to a temple of the ones you captured. Guess what happens when your amphibious nagas capture the Hidden Temple of the Deeps?

Illwinter Studios remains on the bleeding edge of innovation in advanced drowning and falling technology.

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Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

death under the waves corresponds in many ways to that on land

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