Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009

steinrokkan posted:

Their other games are also better tactical fantasy rpgs than dragon age

Personally the part I hate the most in DAO is the caves before the temple of Andraste. I don't know if they were actually as long and pointless as I remember them, or maybe if they just came at a point when my patience was wearing thin, but in each of my playthroughs they were the part I suffered through the most

I mean gameplay-wise it's debatable but DAO has the Original Sin games beat on the writing front by a country mile

That's kind of why I play these games so YMMV I guess

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Epi Lepi posted:

gently caress this, DAO plays like rear end, I'd have to be severely unemployed to play that one again. Watch a recap video or something. DAI is actually fun to play, has better characters, doesn't look like rear end and Trespasser DLC/epilogue is the peak of the series.

You aer of course free to like whatever you want but I dare say most folks would not say DAI had better characters, especially after a page long discussion of how DAI has the worst character in the series.

On a more boejctive front, there's also the fact DAO is simply a much better roleplaying experience. The different origins themselves are amazing but the level of choice you get in most situations, and how this level of choice dwindled with each sequel, really makes DAO stand out.

Shard
Jul 30, 2005

ApplesandOranges posted:

I still maintain that DA2 has aged the best of the trilogy. Graphics are better than Origins, and it doesn't have Sera or Inquisiton's weak gambit system or the long sprawling open-world system that honestly was not very good. Friendship/rivalry system was also a good mechanic that meant you didn't have to agree with all your party members' bad decisions.

I still wish more RPGs would take the approach of being in one big location that changes over the course of years. It helps the stakes not get too big and it helps make it feel different. With a smaller scale you can also have bigger changes based on your choices.

Generic American
Mar 15, 2012

I love my Peng


I will never be able to comprehend how much people gas up Dragon Age II in this thread, because outside of the friendship/rivalry mechanic and the Arishok probably being the best villain in the series (despite not being around long enough to actually carry the game's story), you would have to literally pay me to replay it at this point while I've done at least four or five playthroughs each of Origins and Inquisition. As sluggish as the combat animations are in Origins and damage sponge-y the enemies are in Inquisition, I would still happily take that over having to suffer through multiple waves of generic goons jumping me out of nowhere for no reason in the most annoying way possible while just wandering around Kirkwall. Words cannot describe how much I absolutely hate the combat in II.

And while I do like most of the party members, I really don't see them being leaps and bounds better than characters from the other games. None of them are as bad as Sera — though I would personally argue that Fenris comes uncomfortably close with how edgy he is — but I wouldn't put any of them in my top 5 either. And while I liked the concept, building a rivalry felt so weird and unnatural with all of them other than Merrill, where it actually felt warranted to stand up to her about the mirror being a terrible idea. But for everyone else, I never got the sense of why they would begrudgingly come to respect you despite not being friends, because it usually just came down to being rude to them.

hard counter
Jan 2, 2015





re: da2's combat, while the encounter design was certainly uninspired, it introduced improved cross class combos, talent evolutions and party synergy features that make it feel like an absolute quantum leap up from da:o for some players, alongside its quicker pacing and graphical improvements

while i'm not a fan of the actual implementation of da2's wave system i did like how, mechanically, it encouraged you to not just handle every encounter with an opening salvo featuring your strongest nukes aimed against the choicest targets - incidentally, this is a problem i have with bg3's combat wherein, if you aren't being arbitrarily stingy with your abilities, virtually every encounter even on its highest difficulty modes can be crushed within ~2 rounds - in da2 you always have to keep some gas left in the tank and not accidentally expose yourself for the next wave by decimating the first; the element of the unexpected kept you engaged all combat long instead of just in the opening moves imho

i post that not to dinimish the validity of the experiences/opinions of the people who detested that system btw, but to explain where the people who enjoyed da2's combat might be coming from

hard counter fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 24, 2024

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"
I liked II's combat system, Varric, and Aveline is the tanky paladin waifu of my dreams.

The rest of the game is straight rear end, though. But most of that blame lies squarely on EA wanting a quick turnaround on Origin's sequel.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Epi Lepi posted:

gently caress this, DAO plays like rear end, I'd have to be severely unemployed to play that one again. Watch a recap video or something. DAI is actually fun to play, has better characters, doesn't look like rear end and Trespasser DLC/epilogue is the peak of the series.

I love the story and characters of DA:O, but as an overall package, I do think Inquisition is probably best. DA:O doesn't really have its own art style, it took DA2 and Inquisition to actually solidify what a Dragon Age game looks like.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer
the only thing dao has on the other entries is being able to be a blood mage

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

You can be a blood mage in 2, and hilariously no one cares or comments, and in Hawke's DAI cameo they won't acknowledge it either

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Bogus Adventure posted:

I liked II's combat system, Varric, and Aveline is the tanky paladin waifu of my dreams.

The rest of the game is straight rear end, though. But most of that blame lies squarely on EA wanting a quick turnaround on Origin's sequel.

DA2 has the best combat system I think, but Inquisition doesn't have the ridiculous map "design" (copy/pasting). DA2: Legacy is a real peak of series quality, much like Trespasser is with Inquisition.

And yeah, Varric and Aveline are great characters. One of my favorite video game side quests was the sitcom-esque quest to make her first date with her crush go well, by mercilessly killing any bandits who might interrupt them. It was silly, but not so much that it took me out of the overall game.

Anyway, as I've said many times in this thread, this is probably my favorite video game series ever, and I'd like DA:D to be good, but I know it's going to be a garbage fire.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Nichael posted:

DA2 has the best combat system I think

I see a few people say that and it bewilders me every time

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


It's the game that invented the button:awesome connection.

Buschmaki
Dec 26, 2012

‿︵‿︵‿︵‿Lean Addict︵‿︵‿︵‿
Origins is the best one, no contest.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


exquisite tea posted:

It's the game that invented the button:awesome connection.

They did it! We doubted them and they did it.

Generic American
Mar 15, 2012

I love my Peng


exquisite tea posted:

It's the game that invented the button:awesome connection.

Fun fact: the console version didn't ship with an auto attack setting! The PC version did, and it was eventually patched into the console version like a year later... but before that? You just had to mindlessly mash the A or X button for the exact same set of animations while your abilities/spells were on 35-60 second cooldowns.

It felt miserable.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Generic American posted:

Fun fact: the console version didn't ship with an auto attack setting! The PC version did, and it was eventually patched into the console version like a year later... but before that? You just had to mindlessly mash the A or X button for the exact same set of animations while your abilities/spells were on 35-60 second cooldowns.

It felt miserable.

Too good for the awesome?

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"
Dragon Age is a series of three different games with three different story styles. It means that one is going to jive with people more. Personally, I like Origin's story the best because I wanted a RPG that killed Darkspawn and delved more into what brought them about. I like II's combat system the most because I like chaining combos. It's why I like FFX-2, DCUO, and Honkai Impact 3rd. Combos are fun! DAI is the prettiest and there's a lot to explore, but it's the one I'll probably never play again because it's long and annoying.

I kind of checked out with the DA story when it decided to do the whole Mages vs. Templars thing. It felt like a half-baked, less-compelling version of the Scoia'tael vs Order of the Flaming Rose from The Witcher games. :shrug: I wanna kill Darkspawn and learn who and what the Archdemons really are.

Servetus
Apr 1, 2010
DA2 definitely has the weakest combat out of trilogy in my opinion.

-Healing was every bit as necessary for long fights as in Origins, but the sources of healing were restricted to Anders, and Mage Hawke, or potions on long cooldowns. In Inquisition they added the Barrier and Guard systems to make healing less important.

-Because of the healing issue having a mage in the party was even more vital than in Origins, which cut back on party options. Inquisition was the only game in the series I really felt I could bring along whoever I wanted on any non-story mission.

-The endless waves of chaff dropping out of the sky. Every fight was easy if you ran your party back for a block so they would spawn in front of you instead of behind your mages, but it was a really obvious artifice that they couldn't bother to have enemies emerge from doorways or map edges like in Origins.

The thing I will give DA2 credit for is the willingness to have the story be about smaller stakes than the fate of the world. Unfortunately they undercut that by constantly talking up the Champion of Kirkwall as someone of world importance. I think a lot of games would benefit from smaller, more personal stakes instead of having the world be in peril every few years.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Bogus Adventure posted:

Dragon Age is a series of three different games with three different story styles. It means that one is going to jive with people more. Personally, I like Origin's story the best because I wanted a RPG that killed Darkspawn and delved more into what brought them about. I like II's combat system the most because I like chaining combos. It's why I like FFX-2, DCUO, and Honkai Impact 3rd. Combos are fun! DAI is the prettiest and there's a lot to explore, but it's the one I'll probably never play again because it's long and annoying.

I kind of checked out with the DA story when it decided to do the whole Mages vs. Templars thing. It felt like a half-baked, less-compelling version of the Scoia'tael vs Order of the Flaming Rose from The Witcher games. :shrug: I wanna kill Darkspawn and learn who and what the Archdemons really are.

Vaguely related but this is why I don't get the "play Baldur's Gate 3" folks. I gather that they are the same type of RPG, but so is Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. I would still never say to someone "play this, you don't need the other one."

If someone is like you and really enjoys the lore of Thedas, what is BG3 gonna offer them? Obviously nothing. And if the Qun and Qunari are their favorite thing about the DA setting like it is with me, BG3 once more holds no sway.

People could always just play multiple good games.

Buschmaki
Dec 26, 2012

‿︵‿︵‿︵‿Lean Addict︵‿︵‿︵‿

NikkolasKing posted:

Vaguely related but this is why I don't get the "play Baldur's Gate 3" folks. I gather that they are the same type of RPG, but so is Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. I would still never say to someone "play this, you don't need the other one."

If someone is like you and really enjoys the lore of Thedas, what is BG3 gonna offer them? Obviously nothing. And if the Qun and Qunari are their favorite thing about the DA setting like it is with me, BG3 once more holds no sway.

People could always just play multiple good games.

Sadly none of those exist in the Thedas (short for the dragon age setting) setting

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"

NikkolasKing posted:

Vaguely related but this is why I don't get the "play Baldur's Gate 3" folks. I gather that they are the same type of RPG, but so is Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. I would still never say to someone "play this, you don't need the other one."

If someone is like you and really enjoys the lore of Thedas, what is BG3 gonna offer them? Obviously nothing. And if the Qun and Qunari are their favorite thing about the DA setting like it is with me, BG3 once more holds no sway.

People could always just play multiple good games.

This is part of the reason I haven't tried BG3. Bioware's Infinity Engine has a very specific feel, and I like the real-time option. That's really useful to have when you are just exploring and stumble on grunts, like xvarts or goblins. I would just switch to turn-based when I'm dealing with something more complicated. BG3 doesn't have that option, and I don't want every encounter to become a turn-based slog.

Your Uncle Dracula
Apr 16, 2023

Buschmaki posted:

Sadly none of those exist in the Thedas (short for the dragon age setting) setting

Like it or not, it’s short for The Dragon Age Setting.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

For some reason, nothing really felt like a "big city" map in DAI.

Always seemed odd to me, given that you visit some capitals and stuff. The way they handled map edges in DAI just didn't work for cities.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

NikkolasKing posted:

Vaguely related but this is why I don't get the "play Baldur's Gate 3" folks. I gather that they are the same type of RPG, but so is Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. I would still never say to someone "play this, you don't need the other one."

If someone is like you and really enjoys the lore of Thedas, what is BG3 gonna offer them? Obviously nothing. And if the Qun and Qunari are their favorite thing about the DA setting like it is with me, BG3 once more holds no sway.

People could always just play multiple good games.

People recommend them because Origins' combat is really that bad. If it was 'fine', nobody would really care. But it's actively a slog even on the best of times.

Yeah if you like Thedas enough, sure (and that was what I said in an earlier post; if you like Thedas, Origins is good to play). But if you're in it for the character interaction/romance system, top-down strategic aspect, or objective-style gameplay, other games can deliver that too while improving on Origins' singular worst aspect.

Every game of the trilogy has notable flaws, it's a matter of whether it's a deal breaker for people, whether it's Origins' gameplay, DA2's wave system, or Inquisition's fetch-style quests/padding or companion options. I like Thedas' lore, but gameplay is important to me, and Origins' was frustrating enough that I rarely repeated it.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


NikkolasKing posted:

Vaguely related but this is why I don't get the "play Baldur's Gate 3" folks. I gather that they are the same type of RPG, but so is Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous. I would still never say to someone "play this, you don't need the other one."

If someone is like you and really enjoys the lore of Thedas, what is BG3 gonna offer them? Obviously nothing. And if the Qun and Qunari are their favorite thing about the DA setting like it is with me, BG3 once more holds no sway.

People could always just play multiple good games.

I honestly just don't enjoy the writing of a lot of other games like I do Dragon Age. Thedas is cool. The games are a little discordant aesthetically, but the series overall has a cohesive world, and generally there's thought (or was, who knows with DA:D) put into narrative decisions.

It's cool to poo poo on the series, but I think a lot of that is overblown, and more of a reaction to Bioware generally collapsing in other ways. Which it absolutely is, but that doesn't retroactively make what they did well bad.

Also, I can't compare BG3 to DA yet because I haven't played it. I probably will eventually, but I sort of doubt it'll click with me like Bioware's stuff because practically nothing does.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


I don't think most people mean that Dragon Age should literally be banished from our collective memory because of Baldur's Gate 3, just that BG3 kind of does everything Dragon Age does at a superior level in a way that really brings their various flaws into relief. It's awesome that it exists but also super depressing because it's precisely the kind of game Bioware could have made in 2023 or even sooner had they made literally the exact opposite decision of everything they've done for the past 10 years lol.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


exquisite tea posted:

I don't think most people mean that Dragon Age should literally be banished from our collective memory because of Baldur's Gate 3, just that BG3 kind of does everything Dragon Age does at a superior level in a way that really brings their various flaws into relief. It's awesome that it exists but also super depressing because it's precisely the kind of game Bioware could have made in 2023 or even sooner had they made literally the exact opposite decision of everything they've done for the past 10 years lol.

What, should they not have started and scrapped Andromeda, Anthem, and Dragon Age 4 eight times each? That's nuts, to make a good game you need to confusedly bumble into nonsensical concepts and chase three year old trends, then reverse course suddenly for no real reason.

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.

As someone who mostly cares about story and character interactions, I prefer something like DAI over BG3 because if I don't want to think about the combat too much I can just crank it down to Easy and button mash through most encounters to get to the next story beat or character moment. Whereas with BG3 even on the easiest difficulty I'm still having to slog through every combat encounter. It's the same issue I had with Divinity Original Sin 2, another game with really good writing that I completed but can't say definitively that I enjoyed.

Basically BG3 might be a masterpiece, and I'm glad it's been such a revelation for some people, but I'd play Inquisition over it any day just because I'd be having fun for a lot more of my playtime. Give me a "skip battle" option in BG3 and we'll talk.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Origins combat is fine, it's really simple by the standards of isometric crpgs, but sometimes you need and want simple. The problem is that it's way too repetitive, an issue that goes back to Baldurs gate, really.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

steinrokkan posted:

Origins combat is fine, it's really simple by the standards of isometric crpgs, but sometimes you need and want simple. The problem is that it's way too repetitive, an issue that goes back to Baldurs gate, really.

This iswas really a running theme of Bioware games. They design interesting combat systems and then bog them down with atrocious encounter design. It doesn't matter how cool my abilities and interactions feel. They're always going to get boring if all I'm using them on are slight variations on the same five billion mooks.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Origins combat is a lot more interesting at the start of the game, where you need to control the start of the fight. A little way into the game, it just degenerates into rocket tag and you can just bulldoze everything, even on nightmare.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe
With all the OP dlc gear available Origins combat can quickly become easy. And even if you don't have that, mages always break the game.

Origins is still well worth playing.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe
When I last played it there were also (PC) mods that made archers and warriors useful again, so you don't even have to play Dragon Mage Origins.

Phosphine
May 30, 2011

WHY, JUDY?! WHY?!
🤰🐰🆚🥪🦊
I've replayed origins a couple of times, and I don't find the combat that bad. I don't play on nightmare, I don't use dlc gear, and i don't build op arcane warrior mage builds or whatever. Except when my pc is a mage I don't even always bring one. Morrigan usually gets benched and I only switch in Wynne if stuff is really hard. This results in fights that are somewhat challenging and not a nukefest.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

The only real thing that annoys me about origins combat is that "having a usable ai" is a freaking skill and one of the rare talent ones at that. I have no idea why they built that nifty build your own ai system and then utterly kneecapped it like that.

People talk about it being slow, but I've always found that even melee dudes rip through stuff pretty quick, even including the goofy shuffles into sync kill position.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro

Buschmaki posted:

Origins is the best one, no contest.

It's the only one with the Arcane Warrior Blood Mage build. :hai:

Your Uncle Dracula posted:

Like it or not, it’s short for The Dragon Age Setting.

THE Dragon Age Setting. Like when people say "THE Ohio State University."

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply