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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Harbinger is a nobody, in the cosmic scheme of things. Mass Effect is a space opera.
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Sep 27, 2020 02:55
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SEEN ANY ELVES? A Mass Effect Thread.
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Sep 27, 2020 03:55
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It's not Mass Effect's fault Dragon Age has one fewer good games to talk about.
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Sep 27, 2020 04:23
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Beefstew posted:Mass Effect is a space opera. It was. Nobody listened to Shepherd. Then it was a clusterfuck and she did her best. Everyone dies. THE END. NO MORAL.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:21
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Mass Effect is pop-punk.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:55
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I wish ME3 had stuck to the original script, that would've been so much better.
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Sep 27, 2020 08:37
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Vichan posted:I wish ME3 had stuck to the original script, that would've been so much better. Which one? The one where it was played mostly straight as a series finale with a big dumb fight against Harbinger and TIM? The one where the Indoctrination Theory was actually true, but was later abandoned, leaving pieces behind that got people curious? The one where it was close to what we have now, except the Catalyst for the Prothean superweapon was *gasp* a Prothean? But then EA decided that he needed to be on-disk DLC so that idea was out. Because these were all supposedly separate versions of the story from various points in development. ME3 is basically a hodgepodge of several incomplete scripts.
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Sep 27, 2020 08:44
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Were they?
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Sep 27, 2020 08:48
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The Big Dumb Boss Fight Ending was definitely real at some point I don't know anything about the indoctrination theory every having been real at some point especially considering how loving bleak and at-odds with ME's tone that would have been
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Sep 27, 2020 09:35
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Beefstew posted:The one where it was played mostly straight as a series finale with a big dumb fight against Harbinger and TIM? This one please. Games need to be more willing to just let you kick some rear end, save the day and walk into the sunset instead of everything being some kind of dark twist or subversion of expectations.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:42
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There was some setup around dark energy destabilizing the galaxy and that's why the Reapers were invented back in ME2, but to me this also would have been an unsatisfying explanation. It's just substituting one tangential origin story for another, not any better or worse on its own and, like the synthetic vs. organic conflict in ME3, wholly unrelated to the themes established by the series up to that point. If they were given any explanation whatsoever, the Reapers should have represented some thematic aspect of generational strife, creating bigger problems to solve another, that more or less typified the relationships between all the galactic civilizations in Mass Effect. They kind of tried to do that, but also did not at the same time.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:42
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Blockhouse posted:The Big Dumb Boss Fight Ending was definitely real at some point I remember that, but I don't remember Harbinger ever being attached to it and as pointed out in that page, that idea didn't make it much further than the conceptual space.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:45
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I believe the TIM fight was going to take place on or in Harbinger. The dark energy plot was theorized by fans as far as ME2. It would've gone over better, to be sure. The indoctrination theory ending was true at one point. One interview said that they were having trouble taking control/agency away from the player, hence why it was cut. Don't know if they meant mechanically they couldn't figure out a good way for the game to reject player input (loving FF7 figured that poo poo out 15 years prior) or if they meant that on a more conceptual level of player choice no longer mattering. But I know for a fact it was planned, and that's why there's all the weird, unexplainable poo poo that fed the indoctrination theory.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:49
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They should have just done another suicide mission but with all the war assets you accumulate during the game. Have it end with infiltrating harbinger to upload a reaper killing virus or some kind of fancy emp (maybe the catalyst could have been this), blow them up, and depending on how how well you did this blows up only the reapers, the reapers and the mass relays, or everything. This should not have been rocket science to figure out.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:57
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ME3 is unsurprisingly what happens when you only get 20 months to make a video game that has to consider 60+ hours worth of player input up to that point. Yes all those things could have been cool, and probably would have been "figured out" if the development time was more than a year and a half, but everything about the final product suffers from being very much a first draft.
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Sep 27, 2020 09:59
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as the blurb in the pic posted suggests, the TIM fight probably would have taken place on Cerberus HQ where you fight Kai Leng - the room with the "dying sun" in the background that you first see in ME2 the "indoctrination" mentioned possibly refers to the current end sequence in which TIM mind-controls Shepard and Anderson and the player has to break free through a dialogue sequence Mass Effect had lots of drafts over the years - the very earliest had humans as "Master Slaves", a former slave race of the now-extinct Protheans that had admin access to all their ruins and artifacts. Saren's motive was being mad as heck about this, also his minions were batarians which were literally bat-people. they did settle on organic/synthetic conflict early on but perhaps struggled to ground that in line-by-line narrative - ME1 follows a 4-Star-Maps formula with generic RPG questlines to resolve at each hub, ME2 conversely is very focused on developing its characters and setting - so the thematic links have to route through more abstract concepts like "technological paradigm shift" (e.g. dark energy) and "creator vs created", consequently losing the audience along the way it's still better than Dragon Age
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Sep 27, 2020 10:23
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Beefstew posted:Which one? The one in which Element Zero and black holes played a role in the Reapers' motivations.
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Sep 27, 2020 11:12
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ME2 was, for a brief time anyway, supposed to use Legion as a sort of Raiden/Arbiter/Roxas alternate protagonist for the beginning. If I recall correctly, the first few main quest missions were gonna have you playing as Legion doing poo poo against the Collectors and Shadow Broker (possibly with Liara?) prior to Shepard waking up two years later. This is why Legion was featured so heavily in the early marketing, then barely has an screentime in the final game. ME2 is still the best in the series, but this would've been loving rad. As for the indoctrination thing, I believe remember whatever dev quote it was saying that it was basically a twist. I think it went beyond The Illusive Man scene that we saw in the final product.
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Sep 27, 2020 11:31
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They shouldn't ever have tried to explain the Reapers motives. You don't make Cthulu-based badguys and then try to give them a justifiable motivation and a tragic backstory. The ME2 ending with them melting races down to turn into Reapers was enough of a basic idea and pretty horrific even if the giant reaper baby turned out kind of goofy. Other than that the right way to do it imo would just be for them to say or do things that don't makes sense and allude to things beyond human perception. Also: Avalerion posted:They should have just done another suicide mission but with all the war assets you accumulate during the game. Have it end with infiltrating harbinger to upload a reaper killing virus or some kind of fancy emp (maybe the catalyst could have been this), blow them up, and depending on how how well you did this blows up only the reapers, the reapers and the mass relays, or everything. This should not have been rocket science to figure out. 
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Sep 27, 2020 11:45
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Avalerion posted:They should have just done another suicide mission but with all the war assets you accumulate during the game. Have it end with infiltrating harbinger to upload a reaper killing virus or some kind of fancy emp (maybe the catalyst could have been this), blow them up, and depending on how how well you did this blows up only the reapers, the reapers and the mass relays, or everything. This should not have been rocket science to figure out. If they did this we’d all be breathlessly anticipating Mass Effect 7 right now
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Sep 27, 2020 11:46
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The eldritch horror angle for the Reapers went out the second you were able to have a coherent conversation with one in ME1 and then get cocky poo poo-talked from the same one in ME2. They're very clearly knowable, and that's because frankly writing for unknowable alien monsters is hard and runs the risk of disconnecting the players from giving a poo poo about the antagonist.
Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 11:53
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Broken AI that turned on it's creators after being asked to solve a logic trap might be old news but I had no issue whatsoever with the reaper's origin itself, honestly. The issue was that instead of treating them like they are that, it's all written and presented in such a way that you are supposed to come away thinking they had an actual point. ME1 got it right, when Sovereign gives you his whole spiel about being mysterious and unknowable Shep just says, whatever we'll break you anyway. Avalerion fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 11:55
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Their motivations in ME3 don't match their actions, even in the broken AI logic sense. ME2 had them being ultra-selective with the races they preserved, just killing others and leaving them in piles. Harbinger explained why other races weren't worthy, and even among humans, they seemed to want specific people. ME2 made it all about a specific selection process for Reaper reproduction, and the original version of ME3 with the dark energy storyline worked alright with this. Because what does an immortal god race that relies on other creatures for reproduction have to fear? The accelerating heat death of the universe. But ME3 claims that they're doing it out of altruism, saving people from themselves and preserving them all in immortal bodies. That's neither what they did nor how they acted previously. Harbinger made no illusions about his actions being selfish, and Sovereign made the genocide sound like a cosmic imperative. Again, we didn't need any more explanation after ME2, if that. Like the ME3 explanation for the Reapers kills the point for having Collectors at all. Probably why the Collectors that are implied to have survived never show up on screen in ME3's campaign.
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Sep 27, 2020 12:02
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Blockhouse posted:The eldritch horror angle for the Reapers went out the second you were able to have a coherent conversation with one in ME1 and then get cocky poo poo-talked from the same one in ME2. They're very clearly knowable, and that's because frankly writing for unknowable alien monsters is hard and runs the risk of disconnecting the players from giving a poo poo about the antagonist. I’d say the conversation in ME1 was the best part of the Reapers and didn’t demystify them. That came in ME2 with Harbinger and combat taunts.
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Sep 27, 2020 13:24
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I agree, the Reapers were a mystical unknowable evil in Mass Effect 1, an aspect which sadly wasn't reflected in the... oh hm, is that you Saren? *kicking around console panels inside of Sovereign* GAAAAHHHH!!!! RAARRRGH!
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Sep 27, 2020 13:27
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exquisite tea posted:I agree, the Reapers were a mystical unknowable evil in Mass Effect 1, an aspect which sadly wasn't reflected in the... oh hm, is that you Saren? The scenes with Saren still work because at the time, no one knows his ship is a Reaper. But yea, his tantrum is goofy to watch on a replay when he starts squeezing Beneziah’s face and breathing on her. Dragon Age related: just finished The Descent again last night, and that is a truly criminally underrated DLC. I loved every second of it!
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Sep 27, 2020 13:37
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chaosapiant posted:Dragon Age related: just finished The Descent again last night, and that is a truly criminally underrated DLC. I loved every second of it! Descent is really cool with a lot of interesting implications for DA4, and the final area is really pretty. bit of a slog at points but I liked it a lot, although I enjoyed Jaws of Hakkon a bit more
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Sep 27, 2020 13:43
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I loved Jaws of Hakkon but the scenery confused me, it’s meant to be a cold mountainous area where everyone dresses in furs and talks about how cold winter gets yet it has tropical looking plants and parrots flying around.
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Sep 27, 2020 13:46
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Helith posted:I loved Jaws of Hakkon but the scenery confused me, it’s meant to be a cold mountainous area where everyone dresses in furs and talks about how cold winter gets yet it has tropical looking plants and parrots flying around. yeah this is true. the entire time I was there I was like "hmmm, this spot would be p. great for my Inquisitor's retirement home"
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Sep 27, 2020 13:56
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Blockhouse posted:The eldritch horror angle for the Reapers went out the second you were able to have a coherent conversation with one in ME1 and then get cocky poo poo-talked from the same one in ME2. They're very clearly knowable, and that's because frankly writing for unknowable alien monsters is hard and runs the risk of disconnecting the players from giving a poo poo about the antagonist. It's always come across as silly to me when folks claim ME1's storytelling was perfect and ME2 was the start of the problems when some of those problems were clearly already there in ME1. The Reapers work when the player has no direct interaction with them. As long as there was dialogue involved both ME1 and ME2 managed to portray them as forces of nature. The moment the Reapers started talking it just falls apart. chaosapiant posted:Dragon Age related: just finished The Descent again last night, and that is a truly criminally underrated DLC. I loved every second of it! I felt all three story DLCs for Inquisition were pretty good, though I think if I had paid 15 bucks for Descent I would have been less thrilled. But price vs game length always feels a bit off when it comes to DLCs.
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Sep 27, 2020 14:23
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Raygereio posted:Yeah, the moment you were able to taunt Sovereign and make it throw a temper tantrum, it stopped being an unknowable, eldritch being that's far beyond mortal comprehension. Is it really short? It took me 10 hours to get through on normal, and I still haven’t found all the gears/mugs.
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Sep 27, 2020 14:25
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Also to be clear I'm not complaining about the Reapers having personality and dialogue because I wouldn't trade ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL or THIS HURTS YOU for anything
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Sep 27, 2020 14:26
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Anyone have any good Rift Mage builds? I'm currently using Barrier from the Spirit Tree, all of the Rift Mage Tree and most of the Electricity Tree. I've read online that electric and RM don't mix well. So what's a good versatile /fun/exciting/sexy build?
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Sep 27, 2020 16:19
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The Dark Energy plot would basically be the same as Gurren Lagann and that would be fine because TTGL owned. Avalerion posted:They should have just done another suicide mission but with all the war assets you accumulate during the game. Have it end with infiltrating harbinger to upload a reaper killing virus or some kind of fancy emp (maybe the catalyst could have been this), blow them up, and depending on how how well you did this blows up only the reapers, the reapers and the mass relays, or everything. This should not have been rocket science to figure out. Yeah all the game needed was there to be a Sheppard sized Harbinger body so you could punch him in his stupid face while all this is going on.
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Sep 27, 2020 17:23
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Pattonesque posted:Descent is really cool with a lot of interesting implications for DA4, and the final area is really pretty.
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Sep 27, 2020 17:38
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if the original trilogy had just ended with Shepard blowing up the Reapers and then a slideshow of Your Decisions there'd be all kinds of extra ME poo poo now. you'd have a Mass Effect Battle Royale (decent but soulless) and a small side game which is all dialogue-based (good but wouldn't sell well) and Mass Effect: Andromeda (5% better than the real MEA but still bad). You'd have Wrex showing up in a fighting game and rumblings of a Netflix series and every once in a while some upcoming star would tweet about how much they'd want to play Shepard I'm not saying this would have been necessarily good mind you. just that people really liked Mass Effect and even a mediocre ending would have resulted in BioWare making a lot more Mass Effect
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Sep 27, 2020 17:39
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Toss a coin to your Spectre, star system of plenty, oh oh oh
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Sep 27, 2020 17:56
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thumper57 posted:Toss a coin to your Spectre, star system of plenty, oh oh oh Emily Blunt would have tweeted "I should go" in response to someone asking her about a Netflix series and it would have powered the internet for a whole week
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Sep 27, 2020 18:11
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chaosapiant posted:Is it really short? It took me 10 hours to get through on normal, and I still haven’t found all the gears/mugs. chaosapiant posted:Anyone have any good Rift Mage builds? I'm currently using Barrier from the Spirit Tree, all of the Rift Mage Tree and most of the Electricity Tree. I've read online that electric and RM don't mix well. So what's a good versatile /fun/exciting/sexy build? As far as build advice, I think the most common advice for Rift Mage is to go deep into aoe damage. Combos like Pull of the Abyss + Static Cage + Fire Mine can be pretty brutal. Important things to keep in mind for any mage build is that each of the 12 projectiles of Energy Barrage counts individually for on-hit effects. It's pretty much the reason why the Lightning Cage upgrade exists. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 18:19
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chaosapiant posted:Anyone have any good Rift Mage builds? I'm currently using Barrier from the Spirit Tree, all of the Rift Mage Tree and most of the Electricity Tree. I've read online that electric and RM don't mix well. So what's a good versatile /fun/exciting/sexy build? The rift mage's 'pull everyone to a spot' spell (I forget its name) works well with mines, which ice and fire have, but electricity doesn't, instead having a rather similar 'trap everyone in a spot' spell. That's one reason why the combo isnt especially recommended. But if you can get a good mine spell, having other electrical abilities is fine. I'd probably recommend a fire rather than ice mine because fewer things are immune, but freezing things and then shattering them with Stone fist is also satisfying, so take your pick.
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