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Funny that Amalur came up earlier. People insisted (and still do to this day) that it was an MMO reworked into a single player game, even though those were two entirely separate projects.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:27
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queeb posted:So it released to like 77k players? Do you think they are happy with that number or is that a bit of a disappointment. I was honestly expecting like 6 digits being a mainline dragon age game, 77k seems low. Every number we have so far suggests it is significantly outperforming Inquisition's launch sales. We don't know how it will pan out in the long run (especially because it's much harder to get comparisons due to Origin) but it at very least is not a Concord. Paul Zuvella posted:This is a stupid conversation, bioware has literally confirmed this was almost a multiplayer GaaS They said that very early on in planning it was but it was scrapped because they couldn't think of ideas.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:27
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ImpAtom posted:It literally plays like a modern action game. Like there's only a bit of daylight between it and the modern God of War games. Modern action games must suck a lot then because this combat is very watered down and uninteresting. I don't play God of War but if this is really what they are like then I'll continue to skip them. One reason I don't play games much anymore is because they are boring. Simplistic combat reads as "we wanted to monetize the poo poo out of this so we made it as simple as possible to skinnerbox normies, then we retooled it as a single player" to me.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:28
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HIJK posted:Modern action games must suck a lot then because this combat is very watered down and uninteresting. I don't play God of War but if this is really what they are like then I'll continue to skip them. Dragon Age has literally been "We took a more complex thing and made it simplier and more accessible to appeal to people who think Baldur's Gate 2 is too complex" since literally the first game. That is literally the reason the franchise exists. I have no idea at all why you'd break your no-gaming streak to play Dragon Age if that is your concern.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:29
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Do some of the origins have less stuff in them? I keep seeing the criticism that Rook is undefined, but I felt a lot better about MC setup in this game where it's actually chosen and discussed by Varric & others, versus The Inquisitor whose entire setup is "oh yeah you were at the meeting but it blew up and now you're really important." I think it's neat that the origins play into your characters abilities too. Definitely agree that the writing feels like an unedited first draft & the tonal face turn is kinda weird. Not sold on the gear system yet and I really hope there's some choice of direction eventually cause it's been pretty railroad-y so far up to the spooky blighted village.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:30
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grobbo posted:Between this opening and Inquisition's "the story called for a big talky setpiece that would have introduced the major factions of the game and your character's personal stake in its big political conflict, but thankfully we blew it up offscreen just before the game started. Now go fight some demons in a gorge, player!!" Hah the Mage origin in DA was so bad I uninstalled and didn't try it again for years. Can't remember if I just muscled through the bad intro or just did a different class. There's a place for a long relatively uneventful sort of prologue but idk if number 4 in a series is it.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:30
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ImpAtom posted:Dragon Age has literally been "We took a more complex thing and made it simplier and more accessible to appeal to people who think Baldur's Gate 2 is too complex" since literally the first game. That is literally the reason the franchise exists. I have no idea at all why you'd break your no-gaming streak to play Dragon Age if that is your concern. The other Dragon Age games were really fun to play and their customizable actions were a lot more intuitive to start with. I don't know why you are so angry at me and I'm sorry I offended you but I'm not going to continue this with you.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:31
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Nancy posted:Do some of the origins have less stuff in them? I keep seeing the criticism that Rook is undefined, but I felt a lot better about MC setup in this game where it's actually chosen and discussed by Varric & others, versus The Inquisitor whose entire setup is "oh yeah you were at the meeting but it blew up and now you're really important." I think it's neat that the origins play into your characters abilities too. I have to imagine some of them do. Like Shadow Dragons inherently will have a lot more dialogue because a lot more of the game takes place in areas relevant to them, versus the Mourn Watchers who I can't imagine having much. Same for how I can't loving imagine there being many human-centric dialogue choices because humans are boring and nobody likes them. HIJK posted:The other Dragon Age games were really fun to play and their customizable actions were a lot more intuitive to start with. I don't know why you are so angry at me and I'm sorry I offended you but I'm not going to continue this with you. I am not angry at you, just faintly amused at the "uh well i'm sorry but video games are just so... basic and simple for my refined pallet' for the person talking about how their Burger King burger was so tasty.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:32
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The game is built out of the skeleton of the Joplin and Morrison projects Bioware was working on one of which was a GaaS Dragon Age game and you can see it in the structure of how the game plays quite a bit. Going of some of the development information the Lighthouse likely would have acted as effectively a player waiting lobby/HQ for you to hit vendors and the mission screen where you choose your companions before a mission likely had a possibility to invite your friends in under the original conceit. Joplin "An April 9, 2019 article by Jason Schreier of Kotaku stated that the game was originally intended to be a heist-heavy, smaller-scope adventure revolving around a group of spies in the Tevinter Imperium. Players would have the opportunity to influence other characters, enjoy a rich companion roster, and watch the land and scenario change over time with their choices and–potentially, with multiplayer–the choices of thousands of other players." Morrison "Now code-named "Morrison," this second evolution was built on Anthem's tools and codebase, featuring a multiplayer live service component[9] akin to Destiny. The decision to use multiplayer was later reversed. The game was renamed "Veilguard" after a change in the story's direction." retnuha fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Nov 1, 2024 |
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Nov 1, 2024 15:33
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ImpAtom posted:I am not angry at you, just faintly amused at the "uh well i'm sorry but video games are just so... basic and simple for my refined pallet' for the person talking about how their Burger King burger was so tasty. This is a remarkably dumb take away from my posts.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:35
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retnuha posted:The game is built out of the skeleton of the Joplin and Morrison projects Bioware was working on one of which was a GaaS Dragon Age game and you can see it in the structure of how the game plays quite a bit. Going of some of the development information the Lighthouse likely would have acted as effectively a player waiting lobby/HQ for you to hit vendors and the mission screen where you choose your companions before a mission likely had a possibility to invite your friends in under the original conceit. Again, they are discussing multiple things there. Like going "Well, the Lighthouse exists, it must be because it was a GAAS hub" ignores the existence of Mass Effect where the Normandy serves the exact same purpose. Like... almost everything people so far have mentioned as being PROOF OF GAAS is poo poo directly from previous non-GAAS Bioware games. There was a GAAS DA game in works and it was scrapped after Anthem failed, not midway through. They've been pretty open for this. There's a reason it took several eternities to come out and is safe as all hell in terms of gameplay design. Edit: Honestly this genuinely reminds me of how people claim every badly-colored piece of art on the planet is AI now. Sometimes poo poo can just suck without it being tied to a boogieman. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Nov 1, 2024 |
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Nov 1, 2024 15:36
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"Well there are all these things that seem like they could be taken from work that was done on a GaaS dragon age game and we know that they did work on a GaaS dragon age game but other games have these things too so we cant really say for certain that they are from the GaaS dragon age game" I dont even know what you're trying to argue right now.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:41
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retnuha posted:The game is built out of the skeleton of the Joplin and Morrison projects Bioware was working on one of which was a GaaS Dragon Age game and you can see it in the structure of how the game plays quite a bit. Going of some of the development information the Lighthouse likely would have acted as effectively a player waiting lobby/HQ for you to hit vendors and the mission screen where you choose your companions before a mission likely had a possibility to invite your friends in under the original conceit. Yes. The skeleton of the original plans are still there. Fwiw I actually like the tower and the characters hiding out in it, all Bioware protags have this. Overall I think what separates this from an RPG is the lack of detail to the world. When I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3 there's lots of stuff to pick up, boxes and bags to go through, interactive highlighted items etc. I booted up VG last night and found myself going "??? Where is everything?" especially since I played BG3 just this Tuesday. The green pots as health power ups were immediately recognizable and they are a decent fit with the combat but it's definitely not what I think of when I think of a single player videogame. I don't blame Bioware for this, they did what they had to, but it is definitely a come down.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:42
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I read somewhere there's a way to save or load appearances for Rook. Is that true, and if so, how do I do it? I spent way too long customizing Rook and then immediately regretted the literal first decision of the game. Anyway to re-start without going through all the customization menus again?
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Nov 1, 2024 15:45
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Digital Osmosis posted:I read somewhere there's a way to save or load appearances for Rook. Is that true, and if so, how do I do it? I spent way too long customizing Rook and then immediately regretted the literal first decision of the game. Anyway to re-start without going through all the customization menus again? The import thing is importing your Rook from another save file, so you'd have to restart.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:47
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ImpAtom posted:Again, they are discussing multiple things there. Like going "Well, the Lighthouse exists, it must be because it was a GAAS hub" ignores the existence of Mass Effect where the Normandy serves the exact same purpose. Like... almost everything people so far have mentioned as being PROOF OF GAAS is poo poo directly from previous non-GAAS Bioware games. I get that the GaaS Dragon Age game was canceled. But the code for it wasn't deleted from the face of the earth when EA told Bioware to get their act together and just make an Action RPG. It's 10 years of development time for a game EA thought was going to be out in 2022 there's no reason not to re use assets or backend code that they had built for the GaaS version of the game and just retool it for the current iteration of the project. I don't think anyone is mad that they did this it's good that the devs found a way to save some time and get some value out of the prior work they did but if your analyzing the games design it's impossible not to question how it's prior iterations affected what it currently is.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:48
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God all the things to pick up in BG3 are one of the things that keeps me from getting into another playthrough as much as I'd like to. It is loving exhausting to click on 20 bookshelves, I know I don't have to but they're right there WHY ARE THEY THERE On the flip side in Veilguard sometimes it feels like I can't backtrack to where I think I missed a chest and it's annoying. And when one of the first areas opened up for me to just kinda explore and find new quests there I started running into "you can't go here yet" barriers where I can see loot markers on the map that I want to get to and it really gets to me for some reason, probably because I'll spend maybe 5-10 minutes running around and trying to find a path only to hit a wall that tells me I just can't. Larian really spoils you with all the cool movement tricks.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:49
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Paul Zuvella posted:"Well there are all these things that seem like they could be taken from work that was done on a GaaS dragon age game and we know that they did work on a GaaS dragon age game but other games have these things too so we cant really say for certain that they are from the GaaS dragon age game" Because it does not, in fact, actually make sense with what was actually stated or reported, which is that the GAAS Dragon Age was canned due to the success of Star Wars: Fallen Order and they restarted development as a single player game. Like... it's genuinely entirely possible to point to why the game is why it is. It's an attempt to recreate Mass Effect 2 (arguably to its detriment) and the combat system is super bluntly based off popular action combat systems to the point it feels generic because you can pick up five other games that play almost identically, none of which are GAAS.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:50
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ImpAtom posted:This was not a GAAS game. There is nothing in the game that indicates it was a GAAS game. The new playstyle is very very explicitly just a fantasy version of Mass Effect's combat system. The entire game is very bluntly "People liked Mass Effect 2 so let's make a Dragon Age version of that." Like I absolutely understand not liking it especially if you liked earlier DA games, but it's front and center just an attempt to make their own popular franchise more like their other popular franchise, and is something Bioware has tried to various degrees throughout their lifetime and even earlier in the franchise. (With DA2 trying to feel more 'action' than DA:O.) They were going to make the next Dragon Age a GaaS game until Anthem spoiled the live service party for EA (and Jedi Fallen Order proved a single player game could sell, hilarious since EA leadership seems to be known for hating on single player games). They pivoted and made what we have today.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:51
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HIJK posted:Modern action games must suck a lot then because this combat is very watered down and uninteresting. I don't play God of War but if this is really what they are like then I'll continue to skip them. Yeah the new God of War games are saccharine hand-holdy and overwhelmingly tedious, imo, and it's a shame to see that tendency infect other genres and reduce them to...whatever this is
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Nov 1, 2024 15:52
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HIJK posted:Yes. The skeleton of the original plans are still there. Fwiw I actually like the tower and the characters hiding out in it, all Bioware protags have this. Overall I think what separates this from an RPG is the lack of detail to the world. When I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3 there's lots of stuff to pick up, boxes and bags to go through, interactive highlighted items etc. I booted up VG last night and found myself going "??? Where is everything?" especially since I played BG3 just this Tuesday. Larian is hard to beat on world interactivity, they've been doing cool poo poo with it since Divine Divinity. I've been getting the sense that VG's map/world design are an overcorrection from DAI where there was just Too Much and most of it was pointless.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:53
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ahahahahahahahaha Guard: "This place is forbidden!" Super Secret Crow Assassin: "Nobody forbids the Crows!" ahahahahaha jesus loving christ
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Nov 1, 2024 15:56
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Floor is lava posted:A few hours in and this game feels a lot like ME2 than a dragon age game. It was the best ME, so at least it's something!
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Nov 1, 2024 15:56
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DLC Inc posted:Watched my wife play the first few hours, man they did a great job on the graphics. Great optimization for the ps5 as well. Honestly all the banging on about how bad the dialogue is has done the game a lot of favours for me. Like that line came and went in a blink as has most of the other stuff I've seen singled out. Maybe it gets worse as it goes on, but so far I don't think I would've made note of it if it hadn't been for all the pre-griping about it. I cannot abide a Marvel and I'm not feeling Marvelled so far. I only played for an hour or two of actual game past creation last night. Playing on difficulty right under the one with a warning it can't be changed. Mage has an interesting play style, two modes to swap between, think I prefer the orb and dagger but switching up seems to work well. Sometimes too much flashy poo poo going on to really read the battlefield, but right off the bat feels less routine than FF16 quickly did.
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Nov 1, 2024 15:59
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Paul Zuvella posted:This is a stupid conversation, bioware has literally confirmed this was almost a multiplayer GaaS https://kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351 Yup
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Nov 1, 2024 15:59
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retnuha posted:I get that the GaaS Dragon Age game was canceled. But the code for it wasn't deleted from the face of the earth when EA told Bioware to get their act together and just make an Action RPG. It is absolutely likely that they used content they had already created for previous stuff in their new game. That's how game development works. It has nothing to do with GAAS, it's in fact extremely common for cancelled projects to have elements recycled into new existing ones. If you keep up with cancelled games you can see tons of examples of their assets or engines being reused elsewhere. That isn't the same as what started this conversation, which is a statement that the way the game is designed is because it is a hastily repurposed GAAS game and they couldn't do anything else. There are a ton of flaws in the gameplay but they are all easily traced to current video game trends, most of which are from single player games, and which you can easily identify and trace to the blunt inspirations for the game, including God of War and previous Bioware titles. Like anyone who plays this game can bluntly tell they began with "Let's make Mass Effect 2: Fantasy Edition" and expanded from there. Everything from the loot system to the hub area to the literal structure of the game is based around that. It's entirely bizarre to pretend like this isn't Bioware being Bioware and instead try to blame it on GAAS. Literally the same article you posted: quote:Maybe in two or three years, Morrison will look completely different. It’s not like Dragon Age hasn’t changed drastically in the past. In the office, BioWare developers often refer to Mark Darrah’s Dragon Age team as a pirate ship, one that will eventually wind up at its destination, but not before meandering from port to port, drinking as much rum as possible along the way. His is a team that, in the past, has iterated and changed direction constantly—something that they hoped to cut down for Joplin, but has always been part of their DNA (and, it should be noted, heavy iteration is common in all game development). One BioWare employee summed it up well as we talked about the future of BioWare’s fantasy franchise. “Keep in mind,” they said, “Dragon Age games shift more than other games.” and then years later: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/electronic-arts-pivots-on-dragon-age-game-removes-multiplayer There is not a single person who is saying "This was never GAAS ever" but if you want an example of a GAAS that was bluntly shifted to single player late in development, look at Suicide Squad or Gotham Knights. Veilguard just plays like a kind of crappier God of War. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Nov 1, 2024 |
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Nov 1, 2024 16:00
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Santini posted:ahahahahahahahaha To be fair, none of the Crows you meet in any Dragon Age game are very coy about it, aside from that one guy in DA2 for like 10 minutes. It's a setting chock full of very public and recognizable secret societies.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:02
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I'll just say what everyone is too afraid to acknowledge: Bioware is now firmly in the thrall of Big Balance Beam.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:06
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Nancy posted:To be fair, none of the Crows you meet in any Dragon Age game are very coy about it, aside from that one guy in DA2 for like 10 minutes. Yeah, the very first thing Zevran tells the Warden is "The Antivan Crows send their regards."
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Nov 1, 2024 16:08
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Unfortunately when they removed the concept of stealth from the game it also removed the concept of stealth from all secret societies. Real tragic.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:13
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queeb posted:So it released to like 77k players? Do you think they are happy with that number or is that a bit of a disappointment. I was honestly expecting like 6 digits being a mainline dragon age game, 77k seems low. The peak CCU was 70K yesterday. Mind you, that's not the people who bought it. That's the people what at the *same point in time*, played it on Steam. People in different time zones will play at different times. The real number should be more, apart from consoles of course. But yesterday was Halloween so maybe it reaches 80K or so. But coming back to your question, a 70K CCU for an awaited-for-years AAA game from a big publisher with a big houseshold name is somewhat weak. Not a bomb, but weak. Something like 150K would have been the bar they should have beaten, at least, imo. To compare, here are some modern AAA releases : Satisfactory 186,158 Resident Evil 4 remake 168,191 Dragon's Dogma 2 228,585 Warhammer 40k: Space Marine 2 225,690 Dying Light 2 274,983 Draon's Dogma 2 wasn't even that well received (60% positive on Steam) and the first game was always just a cult-level hit, and still got 225K. DL2 suffered delays and a bit of mixed reception, and got 274K. The previous Space Marine game didn't sell very well (which you know, it's the reason Relic didn't make a sequel), and they got 225k. This is not even going to the level of the big boys (Fallout 4, Elden Ring, Cyberpunk, Hogwarts Legacy, Baldur's Gate 3). 70K is similar to the 73K that God of War got, that was fine, taking in account Sony pc ports come several years later so there is not the same level of hype around them (And there was no familiarity with the series in the pc community). Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 1, 2024 |
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Nov 1, 2024 16:13
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ImpAtom posted:Again, they are discussing multiple things there. Like going "Well, the Lighthouse exists, it must be because it was a GAAS hub" ignores the existence of Mass Effect where the Normandy serves the exact same purpose. Like... almost everything people so far have mentioned as being PROOF OF GAAS is poo poo directly from previous non-GAAS Bioware games. Mass Effect came out before games as a service was a real thing every development studio was chasing. The normandy is more akin to your stronghold in baldur's gate or whatever. If someone says Veilguard was retooled from a live service game I would absolutely give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:14
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Turin Turambar posted:The peak CCU was 70K yesterday. Mind you, that's not the people who bought it. That's the people what at the *same point in time*, played it on Steam. People in different time zones will play at different times. The real number should be more, apart from consoles of course. But yesterday was Halloween so maybe it reaches 80K or so. It's also a weird situation where it is an EA game so their numbers are always a bit off due to Origin and a console focus. Jedi Survivor for example peaked at 67,855 on Steam. YOURFRIEND posted:Mass Effect came out before games as a service was a real thing every development studio was chasing. The normandy is more akin to your stronghold in baldur's gate or whatever. If someone says Veilguard was retooled from a live service game I would absolutely give them the benefit of the doubt. Mass Effect absolutely did not. Like Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition both had multiplayer attempts at it. Mass Effect 3's was even successful enough they went chasing the Anthem rabbit. Like.. what you are describing is a "hub area." It is a concept that has existed for a very long time in games. A hub area is not exclusive to GAAS. GAAS have hub areas but that is because they are a common gameplay design choice that works well for those things. Almost everything has hub areas. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 1, 2024 |
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Nov 1, 2024 16:17
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NikkolasKing posted:The Dwarf Noble Origin in DAO was so drat good. I could just walk around and talk to people for hours. Dwarf Noble was great because if you didn't have a motivation in mind for your character before going in, you certainly did by the end of the prologue. gently caress Origins was good
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Nov 1, 2024 16:20
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, the very first thing Zevran tells the Warden is "The Antivan Crows send their regards." I think we need to shut down fantasy writing and wait to boot it up again until we figure out what's been going on.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:20
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i think frankly a lot of people would like to think "grind faction rep by selling loot to specific vendors to get the best ending" (and other things of that nature) is the result of GaaS-to-single-player kludging rather than a conscious and freely chosen game design choice. we don't know enough to say with a certainty what was the case, but i don't think it's surprising people see that and think GaaS.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:23
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This game sucks you just get railroaded down hallways between cutscenes maybe fight something then watch another cutscene then the game summarizes what just happened to you in a text pop up. Then you repeat that 100 times and you beat the game probably. It was surprising to me when they introduced a third enemy type because I thought I would just be fighting darkspawns and tevinters forever in this lazy rear end game.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:25
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Valentin posted:i think frankly a lot of people would like to think "grind faction rep by selling loot to specific vendors to get the best ending" (and other things of that nature) is the result of GaaS-to-single-player kludging rather than a conscious and freely chosen game design choice. we don't know enough to say with a certainty what was the case, but i don't think it's surprising people see that and think GaaS. I mean I can absolutely understand this except Bioware has done it multiple times before. There isn't a meaningful difference between it at Galactic Readiness in ME3 for example. (GR could be boosted by multiplayer in ME3 to be fair, but you also maxed it out just by doing sidequests unless you imported a Fuckup Shepard file.)
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Nov 1, 2024 16:26
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ImpAtom posted:It's also a weird situation where it is an EA game so their numbers are always a bit off due to Origin and a console focus. Jedi Survivor for example peaked at 67,855 on Steam. I'm not sure how much console focus is there? It isn't like Dragon Age is FIFA or Madden, where the console version totally dominates. Or even Armored Core or Persona, which are series that started and existed on consoles for years and only recently they are getting on the PC train. I never considered the DA series particularly console centric. I know the game can be bought on the EA app, but with the game releasing on the same day on Steam, I can only think the split will be something like 98% steam / 2-3% EA app, it should be a rounding error, I always heard that the difference between Steam and other stores is that big (although the EA subscription thing IS something to consider!). The Jedi Survivor a valid example, actually. Although, with how poor was the release version of that game on pc, I feel we need to add a small asterisk to the number.
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Nov 1, 2024 16:26
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Nancy posted:To be fair, none of the Crows you meet in any Dragon Age game are very coy about it, aside from that one guy in DA2 for like 10 minutes. oh yeah, that's my dude in game also saying "jesus loving christ!" *or more like "Tit's of Andraste!"
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Nov 1, 2024 16:27
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