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The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
this is hangout and chat thread for queer yosposters. we kept derailing tech bubble thread and some folks liked the idea of our own thread so here it is.

please read the following carefully before posting

what this thread is:
a place to talk about queer issues in tech
a place to chat with other queer yosposters about queer stuff

what this thread is not:
a place to poo poo on queer people or trivialize their experiences
a safe space: this is the internet. be aware that offsites love to harass queer goons and spread what they post all over the place. don't post anything you wouldn't want showing up on offsites that hate you. If you're from a small town, maybe don't mention where your are from more specifically than a state. If you're from like Chicago, don't specify neighborhood. Don't mention the name of your company, and so on. Be smart and stay safe.

Moderation: I've talked with pram, and he will be moderating this thread more harshly than others. This thread should be a harassment free zone for queer yosposters and if you come in here with the intention of attacking someone or making GBS threads out phobic crap you'll be dealt with.

Report posts aggressively and PM pram with a link if someone just won't quit.

OK that's it, now talk about how everyone in tech is secretly trans and Peter Thiel is the caitlyn Jenner of the tech world.

Edit 5.12.19: mods have helpfully suggested I note here the following guideline: "just asking questions" is not tolerated and will be punished. we all know you're just looking to harass under the guise of curiosity. you're not clever, stupid people like you do this poo poo to us every day. ask in good faith or fear the wraph of graph.

The MUMPSorceress fucked around with this message at 05:08 on May 13, 2019

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The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

spankmeister posted:

My body is ready to receive a brain slug from the queer overlords

congratulations on your exciting new life journey. which of the 7 genders of brain slug would you like to be bonded with? keep in mind that new genitals are randomly assigned regardless of slug gender.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Dongslayer. posted:

whats it called when you beat it to your gender about a fifth of the time

:allears:

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

The Management posted:

mods, ban for using the hateful c-word. not computers, the other one

Hey, did you know it's not actually a joke when a straight cis guy makes it?

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
So on a more serous note, I wanted to talk about the stereotype that trans people are drawn to tech. Anecdotally, there do seem to be more trans people in tech than in the wider population, but my thinking is that the truth is that there's just more out trans people.

Being, on average, more wealthy and more white than the wider population makes it feel safer to come out. I know I didn't come out until I was cashing developer paychecks. People doing worse economically have safety and employment concerns that require them to just suppress to get by.

Anyway, I wanted to get other folks observations on this since it's becoming somewhat of a stereotype at this point.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Sagebrush posted:

i am only an "A" in the lgbtqia* and only know like four trans people in real life (at least, as far as i know) so i have always felt it's not really an appropriate subject for me to broach, but i have wondered sometimes how come there seem to be a lot more trans yosposters per capita than irl

my guess was just that yospos is one of the few tech forums that isn't actively hostile to the trans community and so tech itself didn't necessarily have anything to do with it. interesting to learn that it might be not just my perception though.

when you say there are more trans people in tech, is that more trans men or trans women? or equal?

*at least when i was in college "a" stood for "allies" but i guess it also now stands for "asexual" and "agender" but i'm not either of those.

anyway this is an interesting topic to me but i don't wanna be another heterosexual male occupying lgbt space so if this isn't cool tell me so and i will go away


ok, phew, i can post here.

At Epic there were actually more trans men and transmasc people than women and femmes, but at my new job I haven't met any trans men. That said, testosterone is basically a miracle drug and they may all just pass too well for me to pick up and I pass too well for them to risk themselves introducing themselves.

And you're welcome to post here as long as you're bit a dick about it. And if someone tells you you're being lovely, shut up and listen instead of getting defensive. Some people on SA just don't seem to have that skill for some reason.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Shaggar posted:

speaking of epic idk if this violates an nda or not, but how did you deal w/ dynamic genders and/or transitioning? are there codes for wider ranges of gender these days, or do they just ignore that and use biological sex? If its biological sex how do you deal with people in different stages of transition? Do you just have the doc read existing meds and procedure history and hope they figure it out?

From a patient perspective it would suck to have to rely on existing, personal relationships w/ a doc rather than anyone being able to pick up a case and go w/ it. also it would seem that maybe there are cases where automated processes that traditionally use biological sex would need to instead take transition state into effect to get the right outcome and you'd need that stored somewhere to figure it out.

its not something ive had to deal w/ in a technical sense yet because of the nature of our work, but I could see it coming up at some point.

I've posted about this off and on in the terrible programmers thread, but I will write a giant effort post about this when I'm not on a phone. Obviously it's an issue I care a lot about and there's a lot I can say without giving away anything proprietary to Epic (and actually I think they're making some mistakes on the subject because a cis woman who took one gender studies class in college is the vp they put on charge of the project.)

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Silver Alicorn posted:

yooo I’m a trans lady let me maybe weigh in on this. I liked femshep a lot but for a lot of games I prefer male characters because they aren’t distastefully sexualized or something. let me tell you about my sexy night elf hunter

I'm turned off to a lot of games for this particular reason. Morrowind is the game I've played the most in my life and part of that is that I could play female characters who had agency, commanded respect, and wore beefy armor. I really like the souls games for similar reasons.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Sagebrush posted:

among recent games, i really liked Prey (2017) because as far as i could tell there was no difference between playing as a male or female character. either way you have a relationship with a woman and your male assistant is attracted to you. the space suit is basically the same design and the dialog never changes except sister<->brother etc. there are no changes to how the player is characterized and no gratuitous butt shots in cutscenes or anything like that. it's a pleasant surprise.

also saints row was surprisingly good about this

Meanwhile, somebody link that awful trans character they shoved into Mass Effect. The one that gladly tells total strangers everything about themselves with no prompting.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

cis autodrag posted:

I've posted about this off and on in the terrible programmers thread, but I will write a giant effort post about this when I'm not on a phone. Obviously it's an issue I care a lot about and there's a lot I can say without giving away anything proprietary to Epic (and actually I think they're making some mistakes on the subject because a cis woman who took one gender studies class in college is the vp they put on charge of the project.)

I started writing this and it's like a couple pages long already and I need to sleep now, so it may take me a couple days to have something postable. I'm composing it in onenote if that gives you an idea of how seriously im approaching it.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

END ME SCOOB posted:

Yeah it's this one, I can't think of a single subforum I've hung out in here without its own trans cabal. LP was probably close to 40/60 trans/cis at one point if you only counted the thread starters.

you should be working on your sword of truth thread. for shame (you're awesome never change)

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ate all the Oreos posted:

i was gonna write up a long and mostly speculative reply to vodkat's post but near the end i realized a much more simple explanation:

tech is one of the very few high-paying-right-out-of-college fields still accessible to the middle class. transitioning can be prohibitively expensive - for example my wife delayed doing it until we both got better jobs and could afford it. on top of this, if you live in one of the garbage states, someone living paycheck to paycheck is gonna be much less likely to want to risk getting fired for coming out as trans than someone with an emergency fund whose skills are in active demand.

This too. Hormones are cheap but getting them prescribed can mean traveling to find a doctor if you live in a lovely place.

Hell, even for someone like me surgeries are crazy expenses and I'm going on a 2 year surgery binge now that I finally have insurance that follows the standards of care and will pay for them.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

A Pinball Wizard posted:

re: trans people in tech, you're a lot less likely to encounter some mouth breathing redneck in tech than in say, retail. If you do encounter a redneck and something bad happens employment wise you're a lot more likely to be able to do something about it as a sysadmin making a deece six figgies than a shelf stocker making low 5 figgies. my work experience has been entirely in retail and tech which colors this opinion but it def seems like a factor to me.

Agree. Also back when I lived in Madison I'd have hillbillies follow me to the bathroom in target. Now they I'm in a more techish area they content themselves with just giving me mean looks in the aisles.

Don't fool yourself into thinking people like you any better as a trans person in liberal areas. They just know they can get away with less harassment.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ultravoices posted:

we like to stereotype all the assholes and facists as hillbillies, because we have the liberal fallacy that education leads to leftist ideals.

one glance at the hn's of the world will reveal that there are just as many nice polite educated people who would cheer marching us all off to the death camps.

Worse than that, not all strains of leftism are compatible with queer identities. There's plenty of tankies and strict Marxists out there who see being gay or trans as a silly diversion of the unoccupied bourgeoisie mind.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
Not to mention all the 2nd wave feminists who somehow still wield power on academia.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Shaggar posted:

commies are the litterral worst

I mean, I'm a commie, but more of the star trek utopian kind rather than the maoist third worldist kind.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Raere posted:

I'm a fan of using queer instead of LGBT++++++++++ because someone's always going to be left out if you use an acronym.

Ya I usually use queer too, but it's kind of an Our Word thing where I'd beat the poo poo out of a non queer who used it.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

bob dobbs is dead posted:

Boring paper writing folk have used "gender and sex minorities" before

Sexual minorities, but ya that is common in academia. I think we were talking about self identification tho

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Improbable Lobster posted:

yo, what's the difference between bi and pan because it seems lime pan is "bi but with non-binary/agender/trans people too" but i've never met a bi person that isn't down with those groups

bi the way, i'm bi

pan is just a way to be less exclusionary with your labeling since bi implies 2, and for trans and genderqueer people it's not safe to assume a bi/gay person is going to react well to you. plenty of gay trans men and women have been shot down (or severely harmed even) by people of the same gender and orientation. if you call yourself pansexual, you're basically being unambiguous that you don't discriminate. i consider myself pansexual, although functionally i'm gay since i'm monogamous and for me sexual orientation isn't super critical to my identity.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Silver Alicorn posted:

what do you call someone who is specifically into trans gender ppl to the exclusion of cisgender?

A chaser, and they are the lowest of life forms. Chasers don't date you, they date your dick.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Shifty Pony posted:

I feel like that nearly everyone who spends any meaningful amount of time time hanging with or reading the stories and experiences of non cishet individuals/groups is going to experience some moments where they need to sit back and process why exactly they find something so relatable.

personally it has recently lead me down some very... enlightening rabbitholes of self discovery.





Anyway I do have a tech-related topic I've been wondering about. Access to trans-friendly medical providers is absolutely a concern for trans folks right? Like not just the gatekeeping where some providers demand you do all sorts of things to "prove" you should be given access to hormonal therapy, I mean my understanding is that it is very difficult to find a provider that will consistently use your real name and correct pronouns instead of constantly deadnaming you. If you are in a non-metro area you likely are already short on providers to chose from so the local X-specialist being trans-hostile is a nearly insurmountable problem for those that don't happen to be able to make the trek to a major metro with better choices. I was thinking that telemedicine has the potential to help, at least in some specialties. It could even make for better care by connecting patients with people who have experience with how common HRT combos would interact with their treatment plans.

I mean general telemedicine has been a "within the next decade!" thing for what... fifty years now, but maybe this is a sustainable niche?


finally - database queery would be a pretty great yospos username imo.

You're mostly on point, except that access to care is hard even in major metros. My current provider put Transgender in my problem list (whoa) and it's visible to everybody, even front desk staff who have no business knowing. Even good clinics don't know what they're doing half the time.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

i'd like to think that there are other industries with far more trans people than tech, they just do too good a job of passing, so we have no idea about it

I want you to think very hard about what is wrong with this post.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ate all the Oreos posted:

the insane guy who keeps sending my wife mail bombs

(they're not actually mail bombs they're just incredibly suspicious ratty packages that contain bizarre items like a "TRUMP TRAIN" mug, though i open everything outdoors with gloves on because eventually the guy's gonna lace the thing with anthrax i just know it)

Jesus christ

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ate all the Oreos posted:

i still have one unopened one that arrived on a day when we were both feeling pretty lovely already and found it waiting for us and were just like "ugh that loving guy i don't have time for this poo poo" and put it on the counter and left it there, maybe i should do a fun schizophrenic mail harassment unboxing video if i ever get around to opening it

Have you reported this guy to the postal service? They take stuff like that pretty seriously.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ate all the Oreos posted:

yeah i tell her to report it (or offer to myself) each time we get one, though i don't feel like it's really my place to do it for her unless she wants me to so it's ultimately up to her. she's a pretty shy / non-confrontational person so idk.

in the meantime i just open em' for her when they arrive since i'm bigger and can probably absorb more poison without dying

Ya, don't force her but maybe emphasize the risk that he escalates past mailing stuff. Like, he knows where you live and he's crazy enough to mail you poo poo. Will he always be happy to stop there?

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Shifty Pony posted:

oh yeah definitely, and when you find a good one insurance approved provider lists keep shifting in ways that you have to decide whether to pay stupid amounts of money out-of-network or change providers. I didn't mean to imply anything other than it was even worse in more rural environments.


that leads me to a question - I assume that the support groups and trans community is pretty on the ball about sharing which providers are good, but how is that generally done? just usual word of mouth offline?

Mostly in person word of mouth on my experience. The online community is way too fragmented and full of crazies to get that kind of info usually.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
If you wanna lol, just pick a random thread at Susan's place and start reading. Those ladies talk like they wear pearls and shoulder gloves while they post.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Silver Alicorn posted:

yeah I opened a dialogue with my org's official LGBT group, as I intend to transition on the job

Congrats and good luck.

I just got called sir by some stoned tech at the CVS. Thanks guy, it's not like you can see my female name and gender marker right there on my driver's license or anything. My wife says people just don't pay attention and just see "tall person equals man" but that don't make it feel any better.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
Everyone is over complicating this. Don't take roll on the first day. Instead announce that you will take roll from then on and that if someone's preferred name (use that language) differs from their registration to let you know before the next class.

This way you are asking if the Christophers in the room want to go by Chris too and you're not singling out just trans students. Send out an email after class with the same statement for the dipshits who skip the first day of class.

Don't make it about trans students. Just make it generally about getting the name people go by.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
are people actually offended by "dude" or "guys"? idgaf about that poo poo and I assumed outrage about it was just a conservative strawman.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Cocoa Crispies posted:

i've heard from plenty of cis women that those bug them, and if someone said "what's up ladies" to a group i'm been part of i'd probably feel it was intentionally insulting so it's just easier to always say "y'all" or "people"

Well ya men are constitutionally incapable of saying "ladies" in a non creepy way.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Triglav posted:

he has a daughter now so he's learned that women are people too

"as a father of a daughter" is like my least favorite response to sex harassment scandals.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

The Management posted:

I call everyone dude and if you don’t like it you can go gently caress yourself.

This is not a tone that is appropriate for you to take in this thread.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Progressive JPEG posted:

I typically refer to people as "they" even when I know their gender and my gaymarried husband hates it lol

I also tend to do this. Better to be safe than stomp on people's feelings. I just genuinely had no idea guys and dude weren't totally agendered at this point. The only people I've ever irl heard complaints from are a meme from my friend in Facebook who is the definition of white girl woke and my wife's uncle who's a lovely republican who was mocking me for my beard shadow back before the laser started to work.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Triglav posted:

w/e dude

I wasn't super clear about this in the OP, but let's try not to just dismiss people out of hand itt. The whole point is that queer issues get talked over a lot in the rest of this sub and nobody should feel like their voice is being bullied out. Disagree, fine, but you're being deliberately disrespectful to the person you're responding to here and the weren't doing the same to you.

Save the mean posts for people who burst in to wave their cishet opinions around without listening to anyone.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Zamujasa posted:

how do people make a decision about gender bullshit, anyway

i went from "haha i'm trans :downs:" to "i don't know poo poo and i think i'm full of it :saddowns:" again today and just like. gently caress, how do people decide this. i'm not really dysphoric other than hating facial hair and my awful body, i think about it sometimes but it's not like it's a huge issue to me

it seems so easy for everyone else. just saying "i feel kind of trans" feels like a huge loving copout what do you even do past that



(obvious answer: therapy)

Therapy is the right answer anytime you can't nail your feelings down on your own.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Glazier posted:

If it's not too personal, how long did it take to work for you? I just had my first about a week ago. :)

I'm pasty like my white mom but I got my super dark coarse beard from my black dad so I was at like 50% reduction after 3 sessions. At my last session they said they might use a closeup of my cheek on a poster because I was the best result their clinic ever had.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ate all the Oreos posted:

wife was doing laser for a while until she figured she was at the point of diminishing returns and needed to switch to electrolysis to get the rest, though she still hasn't scheduled that after a few months so idk what's up. it got rid of a lot though so that's nice

Ya I still have some white hairs to electro out but you can't see em at all, they just bug me. It's inevitable that with laser some hairs will just get weaker and turn white or blonde rather than fall out. "permanent reduction" and all that.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
Mods, change subtitle to "is bro gendered?" tia

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The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Glazier posted:

Sweet! I'm biracial too, same parents too, so I hope it turns out as good :)


I heard Jordan Raskopoulos talk about her experience with electro and If that happens to me I'll just live with it, laser already hurts enough. 😫

By the time you're done with laser nothing will hurt anymore. Pain will be a distant memory. I'm getting electrolysis... down there.. to get ready for bottom surgery and it's not that bad comparatively. keep in mind that electro is hair by hair so it's not gonna singe quarter sized hunks of your face like laser does.

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