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Hal Incandenza posted:Yeah it’s very weird, and my initial thought from that was he was probably bad. And I also stated earlier that I don’t love restless townie as a claim. However currently that’s trumped by Nat20 and his claim. I was expecting his multiple personality thing to be related to his role (flavor wise, not a PR) but now it seems maybe that was just a distraction I say you should come up with a bunch of questions for b- and n20 to answer and try to catch someone in a lie / see if one of them slips us as scum. I would rather you get it right than get it quickly!
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Dec 15, 2017 23:06
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Hal, is there a reason you haven't claimed?
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Dec 15, 2017 23:33
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Murmur Twin posted:I say you should come up with a bunch of questions for b- and n20 to answer and try to catch someone in a lie / see if one of them slips us as scum. I would rather you get it right than get it quickly! What about omg, your other scum read? You don’t think hal should come up with any questions for them? You seemed pretty convinced that we were scumbros this morning. What changed?
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Dec 15, 2017 23:39
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b-minus1 posted:Hal, is there a reason you haven't claimed? Ha no I just forgot. Just VT sorry wish I had some helpful info
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Dec 15, 2017 23:39
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Hal Incandenza posted:Ha no I just forgot. Just VT sorry wish I had some helpful info Ok, cool. You are welcome to take mmt's advice and write up a bunch of questions to ask me, and I'll be as transparent as possible. But I think it's pretty clear where I stand. I strongly believe natural20 is scum, and mmt is his scum partner. I understand why you found my d1 claim suspicious, but I've tried to explain why I did it. My early vote of natural 20 may seem suspicious, but it carried over from yesterday. I don't buy his claim and do not understand why he refuses to tell us his n2 action. Unsurprisingly, mmt has defended him every step of the way. The evidence is impossible to ignore. Natural 20 visited confirmed town doctor podima, and podima didn't die. Every single one of mmt's scenarios has been proven to be false. I cannot say for sure that podima self-protected, but it definitely seems like the most likely scenario. Just look at how podima reacted toward me for even bringing up the possibility that he was doctor. And now he's dead. Don't let mmt obfuscate the situation any more than she already has. My story hasn't changed; mmt's has, repeatedly. I want to lynch natural 20 today, and want you and omg to join me. There is no need to prolong this day any more. natural 20 is scum.
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Dec 15, 2017 23:59
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for the record, this is the setup mmt & 20’s claims & reads require: 2x vt 1x doctor 1x bulletproof bodyguard 1x watcher 2x mason (plus a ninja on the scum team) & this is the one my claims and bminus’ require: 1x vt 1x doctor 1x tracker 1x watcher 1x restless townie 2x mason
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Dec 16, 2017 00:04
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OMGVBFLOL posted:for the record, this is the setup mmt & 20’s claims & reads require: i think it's worth mentioning that this setup also implies that you are lying about your tracker role.
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Dec 16, 2017 00:11
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Murmur Twin posted:I say you should come up with a bunch of questions for b- and n20 to answer and try to catch someone in a lie / see if one of them slips us as scum. I would rather you get it right than get it quickly! by all means, Hal, come up with questions for everyone. I have no lies to get caught in. if I did, I would probably avoid further engaging with my critics, lean heavily on the one unconvinced townie, and petition the mod for a deadline. whose behavior does that describe today?
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Dec 16, 2017 00:11
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SA Mafia Wiki posted:A Doctor (or Doc) is a common protective role. In general, Doctors are town-aligned, though Mafia-aligned Doctors are occasionally present in games with multiple scum groups or many non-mafia killing roles. During each night, a Doctor may protect one player from being killed. In general, Doctors are not allowed to protect themselves, but may protect any other player as often as they wish. If you have a Doctor role and it is unclear what the limitations (if any) of your action are, ask the moderator of the game. (link) b-minus1 posted:The evidence is impossible to ignore. Natural 20 visited confirmed town doctor podima, and podima didn't die. Every single one of mmt's scenarios has been proven to be false. I cannot say for sure that podima self-protected, but it definitely seems like the most likely scenario. Just look at how podima reacted toward me for even bringing up the possibility that he was doctor. And now he's dead. Don't let mmt obfuscate the situation any more than she already has. B-Minus's most likely scenario: Pod self-protected N1 even though typically doctors aren't allowed to self-protect (see above) and Wren didn't report Pod visiting himself. MMT's most likely scenario: OMG/B- ninja'ed Pod on night one, which is why they're so sure he was the NK target. Nat20, who we know visited Pod, has the role he says he does. Scum has a tracker (OMG) and a ninja (B-Minus) to help get past 2x doc and watcher. G'nite folks! ##vote b-minus
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Dec 16, 2017 00:15
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I’ve been a doctor who can self-target; the standard limitation is that they can’t target the same person two nights in a row.
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Dec 16, 2017 00:30
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OMGVBFLOL posted:I’ve been a doctor who can self-target; the standard limitation is that they can’t target the same person two nights in a row. I’ve been doctor one time, and I couldn’t protect myself. But every game setup is different.
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Dec 16, 2017 00:39
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Hal Incandenza posted:Hmmmm Nat20 is that bulletproof unlimited for your bodyguard? Hal, I'm a member of the APA if you catch my drift. I strongly suspect you're town and I think you'll get the specifics of my role from that. More when I'm home on actual things that have been said.
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Dec 16, 2017 01:21
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To speculate: My world: Night 1: Pod protects a town player. I bodyguard Pod and am Watched by Hexwren. Day 2: It is revealed that I visited Pod. Pod believes I'm town leaning because Pod knows that he didn't protect himself last night. Podima posted:bminus asked and I'm fine with this post. It's not the crazy scumbomb that you're making it out to be - in an overly dramatic fashion I'll add. This is a quote from Pod like 3 or 4 posts before the hammer. Pod openly questions B-minus1's claim that I've outed myself as scum. Night 2: Scum, knowing I visited Pod last night kill Pod because they suspect he's a doctor or because they believe it will make for a good case on me. This requires no speculation on scum powers, no ninja powers on scum side. B-minus1's world: I'm scum, try to kill Pod D1 who then self docs. Day 2: Pod finds out that I visited him and instead of pursuing me, knowing that he self Doc'd he goes after Peramene and ends up voting out a town player. Night 2: I am so impossibly and gibberingly stupid that I kill the person I visited the previous night and was seen to visit and whoever my scumbo partner is thinks that this is a good idea. This world requires that Podima have some sort of mind blocking aneurysm that prevents him from even vaguely thinking that the person who visited him when he self doc'd was scum and requires me to be literally the worst scum player on the face of the planet. Let me put it simply. I am not that stupid. I'm not great at reading people from posts but I know night action mafia like the back of my hand.
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Dec 16, 2017 01:46
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OMGVBFLOL posted:for the record, this is the setup mmt & 20’s claims & reads require: So obviously this is misleading at best. This is presented as some huge problem with plausibility when the conditions for either side are equal, the MMT setup leans protect heavy, the OMG setup leans investigation heavy. There's no need for a ninja under MMT's setup as mentioned above, it's just one of a number of plausible scenarios. Nor in fact is it required that OMG be lying about being a tracker, as I mentioned earlier in the game, scum tracker is a legit role. But notably any sort of analysis like this ignores that role distribution is fundamentally different to a normal game. We were able to literally request a mad/not mad role. Again, it's stuff like this that's at best distracting from the real arguments here and I think OMG and B-minus are trying to do their best to obscure information.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:07
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Also holy poo poo, OMG tracked MMT N2? If he's so suspicious of me it's absolutely bizarre that I wasn't tracked N2.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:11
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But yeah basically, vote for the guy who tried to turbo me down while I was asleep. He's probably the scum player.
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Dec 16, 2017 02:15
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nat20, i will address your most recent posts, but I also just thought of something. There's 5 of us left. 3 votes to lynch. I voted to lynch nat20 at the start of today, and nobody else has followed. This means there is only one scum among mmt, hal and omg. If there were two scum and I am wrong about nat20, the game would be over. I think you can apply the same logic to mmt's vote to lynch me. There can only be one scum among nat20, omg and hal. If there were two, the game would also be over. I'm pretty sure this is correct, tell me if I'm wrong. and yes this obviously implies that I am town, which I am, restless townie like i said on d1. i still think mmt and nat20 are the scum. but if you all really want to drag this discussion out another day, then ok that's what we will do.
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Dec 16, 2017 04:10
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Natural 20 posted:To speculate: I have to admit you raise a lot of valid points. I cannot explain pod's behavior. You're right, he didn't go after you at all d2, and he didn't buy any of my cases against you. I am not scum, and obviously I'm the only one that can confirm that. I will reevaluate the thread. You aren't clear yet, nor am I unvoting, because like I said in the above post, there cannot be two scum among omg, mmt and hal. because if i was wrong and somehow you really are town, the game would be over. If was was wrong, the game would be over. And yet here we are, the game continues.
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Dec 16, 2017 04:24
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b-minus1 posted:nat20, i will address your most recent posts, but I also just thought of something. That is correct, barring the unlikely one-scum scenario all of us know that either you or Nat20 (or both in some ballsy bussing scheme) are scum
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Dec 16, 2017 06:29
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OMGVBFLOL posted:by all means, Hal, come up with questions for everyone. I have no lies to get caught in. I am interested in why you tracked MMT last night actually
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Dec 16, 2017 06:33
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Hal Incandenza posted:That is correct, barring the unlikely one-scum scenario all of us know that either you or Nat20 (or both in some ballsy bussing scheme) are scum I’m surprised and disappointed that you still think I’m scum. I understand the pressure you (and omg) are under, one mislynch and we lose. What more do I have to do to convince you haha
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Dec 16, 2017 06:50
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b-minus1 posted:I’m surprised and disappointed that you still think I’m scum. I understand the pressure you (and omg) are under, one mislynch and we lose. What more do I have to do to convince you haha I mean I’ve clearly been leaning toward N20 but posts like this make you seem very self conscious and suspicious
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Dec 16, 2017 07:07
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Hal Incandenza posted:I mean I’ve clearly been leaning toward N20 but posts like this make you seem very self conscious and suspicious it's because we are this close to a town victory. frankly i can't believe we are still stuck on d3 and my fear is that when mmt wakes up she's going to continue to muddy the waters in a desperate attempt to flip one of you. i just hope you and omg make the right decision.
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Dec 16, 2017 07:16
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Hal Incandenza posted:I am interested in why you tracked MMT last night actually Mainly, because I was pretty sure about both snail and pera before their flips, so my reads were obviously off. I had gone with MMT on the strength of her persuasion two nights in a row and it blew up in my face. I was hoping for something concrete to ground a re-evaluation of MMT with.
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Dec 16, 2017 08:54
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Hal, is it my role that still gives you doubts? I feel like suspicion drawn is because there was an incorrect initial assumption about it that I've then gone on to correct.
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Dec 16, 2017 13:53
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b-minus1 posted:it's because we are this close to a town victory. frankly i can't believe we are still stuck on d3 and my fear is that when mmt wakes up she's going to continue to muddy the waters in a desperate attempt to flip one of you. i just hope you and omg make the right decision. Orrrrr it's because scum was playing a flawless game until we got to LYLO and I opened with Murmur Twin posted:OK! And then he panicked b-minus1 posted:Mmt, wtf are you talking about? natural 20 did not protect podima n1, he was trying to kill him. He literally tries a hail-mary "rush the vote" play. There is no pro-town reason to just throw a vote out before N20 can claim. And then he's clearly rattled where he wasn't before: quote:Either way, we are hosed if Hal doesn’t show up. Unless the other scum joins me in lynching natural 20. B-minus is projecting here. Look at how many times he talks about "scum will win" - even though he's trying to phrase it like he's afraid of a mislynch, his tone / word choice / random focus on "what if Hal doesn't show up" make it pretty clear what he's actually thinking about. The last thing I quote is him saying that I'm "scum trying to dictate the flow of the game to try and force a mislynch" after he had already thrown out his vote in LYLO before that person can claim. Uh-huh.
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Dec 16, 2017 14:33
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Mmt, you know I’m right. You and nat20 played a flawless game through today. It’s the reason that we are one mislynch away from losing. And of course I panicked early d3. I woke up to a bunch of bs accusations that I’m scum, and knew I had to act fast before you managed to flip omg or hal.
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Dec 16, 2017 14:45
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Votecount for Day 3  Natural 20 (1): b-minus1 b-minus1 (1): Murmur Twin Not Voting (3): Hal Incandenza, Natural 20, OMGVBFLOLThere are 5 players alive. It will take 3 votes to remove a player from testing. The current deadline is December 17th, 2017 at 10 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 12 hours.
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Dec 16, 2017 15:23
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b-minus1 posted:And of course I panicked early d3. I woke up to a bunch of bs accusations that I’m scum, and knew I had to act fast before you managed to flip omg or hal. Really? You were worried I was going to flip OMG by accusing you and him of being scumbros?
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Dec 16, 2017 15:23
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Also since this just popped into my mind - anyone else curious how OMG claimed tracker d1 and is still here?
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Dec 16, 2017 15:28
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Murmur Twin posted:Also since this just popped into my mind - anyone else curious how OMG claimed tracker d1 and is still here? i have been wondering that this whole time, but i imagine your and my theories as to why will differ
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Dec 16, 2017 15:51
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Murmur Twin posted:Also since this just popped into my mind - anyone else curious how OMG claimed tracker d1 and is still here? Because you killed the doctor instead lol Mmt, are you a ninja? We already know that nat20 isn’t because he was seen visiting podima.
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Dec 16, 2017 16:05
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general reminder that MMT: didn’t bat an eye when nat20 1) didn’t realize it was lylo 2) when it was pointed out, took 45 minutes to come up with a claim & 3) claimed an insanely powerful role for such a small game. like, just had no reaction at all to that extremely suss series of events came screaming out of the gate trying to dictate the terms of the day after championing two mislynches in a row pressed for a deadline, which is not towny at all claimed she was no longer engaging with bminus or I, but after her efforts fell flat yesterday is apparently trying to brush away yesterday’s mistakes with further clutter
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Dec 16, 2017 16:06
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b-minus1 posted:Because you killed the doctor instead lol If I were a ninja, don’t you think I would have done the kill n1?
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Dec 16, 2017 16:30
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b-minus1 posted:How did you write three long posts of reads and fail to mention natural 20’s visit to confirmed doctor podima on n1? The scenario posited by MMT and Nat20 is that Nat20 and a scum ninja both picked the same person, D1, with nothing to go on but people’s posting. Random chance on that is ~1.23% (1/9x1/9). Versus random chance of the scum hitting the self-targeting doctor at 11.11% (1/9). After rereading all of yesterday’s posts, I can’t really think of anything that seems more likely than an MMT/Nat20 scumteam. ##vote Natural 20
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Dec 16, 2017 16:32
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OMGVBFLOL posted:^another worthwhile recap You're literally blatantly lying. Natural 20 posted:This requires no speculation on scum powers, no ninja powers on scum side. Like this isn't even subtle. I specifically note there's no need for a ninja. OMGVBFLOL posted:general reminder that MMT: "Took 45 minutes to come up with a claim" Natural 20 posted:You may actually be right. My apologies. Gimme a little bit, I want to update my spreadsheet first and double check the game state. Natural 20 posted:I'm a bulletproof bodyguard. 11 minutes. At around 10:41 on a weekday when I was at work. Put simply, you have OMG openly lying after claiming to have read the day back and misrepresenting situations as hard as possible to cast aspersions on myself and MMT. He's scum with his bud B-. ##vote B-minus1
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Dec 16, 2017 16:45
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And there’s nat20 with bminus vote!! This has gone exactly how I thought. Hal, it’s up to you.
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Dec 16, 2017 16:46
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Natural 20 posted:"Took 45 minutes to come up with a claim" You claimed 45 minutes from when I pointed out your spoopy “claiming would be very bad for town” made no sense at all in LYLO.
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Dec 16, 2017 16:56
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Oh geez well ##vote Nat20
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Dec 16, 2017 17:10
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 This game will be better without Natural 20!Votecount for Day 3 Natural 20 (3): b-minus1, OMGVBFLOL, Hal Incandenza b-minus1 (2): Murmur Twin, Natural 20 Not Voting (0): There are 5 players alive. It will take 3 votes to remove a player from testing. The current deadline is December 17th, 2017 at 10 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 10 hours.
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Dec 16, 2017 17:16
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