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Carlosologist
Oct 13, 2013

Revelry in the Dark


The Ringer has their second mock out

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/...k-draft-january

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Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

I finally got my schedule together and it's ugly and not very appealing. Last year I was lucky and a lot of the prospects were playing each other in big games, but this year, not so much.

Anyway while I was putting this together I was watching a tape delay of Tony Carr, wasn't really scouting him but I'm worried about the depth of this draft if he's really a borderline first round prospect.

E: I guess now I need to figure out how to watch Donic

Rick fucked around with this message at Jan 13, 2018 around 09:00

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008



Grimey Drawer

If you could take a look at Waters out of LSU and let me know where on the scale of late first, early /late second, undrafted but on the short list of call ups, to "sorry, bro". That would be great.

He's a short pg that is putting up lots of steals, assists, and points on a surprisingly decent LSU team.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

Rick posted:

I finally got my schedule together and it's ugly and not very appealing. Last year I was lucky and a lot of the prospects were playing each other in big games, but this year, not so much.

Anyway while I was putting this together I was watching a tape delay of Tony Carr, wasn't really scouting him but I'm worried about the depth of this draft if he's really a borderline first round prospect.

E: I guess now I need to figure out how to watch Donic

There's probably a legit stream for it that's decent but I just use http://ifirstrowus.eu/sport/basketball.html
For euro games

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball.

Is it just me or does Luka Doncic have huge floppy feet and whenever he moves it looks like he's not nimble at all because of it

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

Doltos posted:

Is it just me or does Luka Doncic have huge floppy feet and whenever he moves it looks like he's not nimble at all because of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWy9fG5Wls#t=69s Check out this slow mo
He's got bad posture, so he gets almost no sink or power from his butt and hips, so he has to thud his knees, ankles, feet to move. It really worries me injury wise. The awkwardness seemingly does help him get around defenders, ala ginobli, but ginobli has spent half of his NBA career not playing.

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


I should root for local guys, but I'm really not digging Trae Young. I've never seen so many bad shots.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011


ButtWolf posted:

I should root for local guys, but I'm really not digging Trae Young. I've never seen so many bad shots.

Shot selection should be the easiest thing for an NBA coaching staff to fix

His good shots, good lord

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Shot selection should be the easiest thing for an NBA coaching staff to fix

His good shots, good lord

Under competent coaching Trae will be a Diet Steph. That's not a knock.

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005




SamuraiFoochs posted:

Under competent coaching Trae will be a Diet Steph. That's not a knock.

And steph was diet steph for years.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Bip Roberts posted:

And steph was diet steph for years.

Haha very true.

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Shot selection should be the easiest thing for an NBA coaching staff to fix

His good shots, good lord

Good point. Maybe I'm just trying to see bad stuff now, but his shot also looks weird. Not like Lonzo bad, just like a high schooler trying to get it up there. Could be cause its 35ft out though. Im just sick of getting my hopes up on OU and OSU guys only to be disappointed.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

We just out here tipping more than $13


The only player from ou and okst that had any reasonable NBA aspirations and has disappointed this past decade has been buddy so who are you getting disappointed about?

Trae is really good he has some kinks but so does every 19 year old player root for the boy

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Maybe he thought Smart would be a superstar?

JamesOn Curry never did nothing

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

ButtWolf posted:

Good point. Maybe I'm just trying to see bad stuff now, but his shot also looks weird. Not like Lonzo bad, just like a high schooler trying to get it up there. Could be cause its 35ft out though. Im just sick of getting my hopes up on OU and OSU guys only to be disappointed.

Trae Young only uses that waist release for his 50 footers. His release at the line is higher and more compact. It's not as high and fast as Curry, and he's 2 inches shorter, but his jumper is nice, he can get to the basket, and pass.

I get your point though, there are plays when you mentally swap out his defender for someone with NBA length and agility and he probably doesn't get around his man or his release is much more bothered.

It's weird seeing these young players who've been imitating Curry/Harden as barely-teens now playing in the NCAA and NBA.

Players who are drafted highly in part because they remind everyone of a currently successful player are set on faster and harder than anyone else by the media. Fultz/Harden, D'angelo Russel/Steph Curry, early struggles become "he's a bust."

Trae Young is good at basketball and even if his size means he'll be more of a Kemba Walker than a Steph Curry, that's still a pretty high bar. I need to watch more of him before I make any real judgements or proclamations.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Dejan Bimble posted:

Trae Young only uses that waist release for his 50 footers. His release at the line is higher and more compact. It's not as high and fast as Curry, and he's 2 inches shorter, but his jumper is nice, he can get to the basket, and pass.

I get your point though, there are plays when you mentally swap out his defender for someone with NBA length and agility and he probably doesn't get around his man or his release is much more bothered.

It's weird seeing these young players who've been imitating Curry/Harden as barely-teens now playing in the NCAA and NBA.

Players who are drafted highly in part because they remind everyone of a currently successful player are set on faster and harder than anyone else by the media. Fultz/Harden, D'angelo Russel/Steph Curry, early struggles become "he's a bust."

Trae Young is good at basketball and even if his size means he'll be more of a Kemba Walker than a Steph Curry, that's still a pretty high bar. I need to watch more of him before I make any real judgements or proclamations.

That's a sports issue in general, people are WAY too quick judge young players a bust. Look at Victor Oladipo. Or for a non-basketball example, Joe Thornton.

Cool Buff Man
Jul 30, 2006

bitch

El Gallinero Gros posted:

That's a sports issue in general, people are WAY too quick judge young players a bust. Look at Victor Oladipo. Or for a non-basketball example, Joe Thornton.

Who labeled Oladipo as a bust? The worst that I can recall being said about him was that he's not worth Paul George or hell, me making fun of his dribbling and I already apologized for that

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


we still don't know if derrick rose will develop a jump shot

ButtWolf
Dec 30, 2004

Hey, you want a toothpick?


Metapod posted:

The only player from ou and okst that had any reasonable NBA aspirations and has disappointed this past decade has been buddy so who are you getting disappointed about?

Trae is really good he has some kinks but so does every 19 year old player root for the boy

Big country, desmond, the grahams, lebryan and jameson (i gave up after year 2), azubuike (wrong college, still local).

Guys I'm just scared he's Jimmer 2 and I don't want to cry anymore.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

Cool Buff Man posted:

Who labeled Oladipo as a bust? The worst that I can recall being said about him was that he's not worth Paul George or hell, me making fun of his dribbling and I already apologized for that

Getting into debating narrative power and intensity of clickbait sports journalism jungles is for the Bill Simmonses of the world. I think Oladipo and Sabonis were widely considered pennies on the dollar in exchange for Paul George. Victor Oladipo looked like an okay starter in OKC and a very inconsistent player on and off ball in Orlando. Nate Macmillan opening the offense, Myles Turner stretching things out, and a few other factors have let oladipo become the jaguar sprinter he was at Indiana.

Role and situation are vital for everyone but the most super of superstars.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Dejan Bimble posted:

Getting into debating narrative power and intensity of clickbait sports journalism jungles is for the Bill Simmonses of the world. I think Oladipo and Sabonis were widely considered pennies on the dollar in exchange for Paul George. Victor Oladipo looked like an okay starter in OKC and a very inconsistent player on and off ball in Orlando. Nate Macmillan opening the offense, Myles Turner stretching things out, and a few other factors have let oladipo become the jaguar sprinter he was at Indiana.

Role and situation are vital for everyone but the most super of superstars.

I can't remember who it was, but somebody in the NBA N/V thread said that if DeRozan had ended up with a team less patient than Toronto, he'd be playing pro ball in Europe or something right now, and they're probably right

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009



The consensus was def that OKC won that trade and Indiana did not get enough .

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

We just out here tipping more than $13


oladipo was considered a bust while he was at orlando

Cool Buff Man
Jul 30, 2006

bitch

Oladipo is also pretty drat old to make such a huge leap so I'm not sure how applicable it is to 19 year olds and their expectations. Most players won't get that much time/patience. In a just world, all ballers would be free to metamorph into their perfect form, no matter how many years it took

Anyways Trae Young is cool

Cool Buff Man fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2018 around 02:45

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Also, I know people hate this, but "best player on bad team" is often fool's gold.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


Rick posted:

Also, I know people hate this, but "best player on bad team" is often fool's gold.

"Guy who puts up big numbers on lovely efficiency" is usually fool's gold. Maybe they can create pretty well, but that doesn't mean they will automagically be more efficient when asked to play a different role. It'll depend a lot on what he's being asked to do.

"Guy who puts up efficient numbers on a bad team" is usually a good sign though, typically it is harder to be efficient when your the team's only option.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Lockback posted:

"Guy who puts up big numbers on lovely efficiency" is usually fool's gold. Maybe they can create pretty well, but that doesn't mean they will automagically be more efficient when asked to play a different role. It'll depend a lot on what he's being asked to do.

"Guy who puts up efficient numbers on a bad team" is usually a good sign though, typically it is harder to be efficient when your the team's only option.

How's Jodie Meeks doing?

E: I'm being reductive but over the past three years we've seen more evidence that even "efficient on a bad team" doesn't mean a ton.

Rick fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2018 around 19:34

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008



Grimey Drawer

Rick posted:

How's Jodie Meeks doing?

Well, he made it to the NBA and has been a rotation for several years (and still is).

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Kibner posted:

Well, he made it to the NBA and has been a rotation for several years (and still is).

Oh totally, I think I'm talking about something that really isn't the conversation here so I'll check out of this one.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Daniel Gafford has a nice enough shot but seems really passive offensively. He looks nice when he does participate in the offense. But defense is where he looks good, not every decision is perfect of course, but he seems to overall have really good instincts, and he's in a pressing, switching defense and has a good idea what to do in it.

Landry Shamet - I spent the first half of this game getting ready to whine about how bad college basketball was and to make fun of the lovely refs who thought it was Witchita vs Tulsa vs Refs and who were trying to get on TV every 30 seconds calling like touch fouls 20 feet away from the ball, and the camera work was loving terrible and Shamet was barely touching the ball. But man the second half really turned around in all facets. Once Shamet started going, he had his hands in everything. Great basketball IQ, smart passes, crazy quick release, creative around the basket. I'm suddenly a big fan (and this game ended up being great and the refs relaxed). I have no clue if he has actual NBA range because he shoots every three exactly in front of the line but he's shooting 53% from 3 too.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Rui Hachimura is from Japan, not a place known for prospects, but he doesn't feel raw or new to the game. Decent basketball IQ (although he does make a lot of mistakes trying to do too much), great body control. I'm kind of skeptical of that offensive game translating to the pros, or if it would even translate to a better conference (a lot of his offense seems based on him being much bigger and much more athletic than like the entire non-Gonzaga WCC). I do think the defense could translate though, because he has excellent timing and understands when to rotate). I could see the right team drafting him and changing his offense a bit and developing him into a good player.

I thought Killian Tille was garbage at first, because while he's clearly very quick, his moves to the basket when he's out of control are awful. But then when he slows down a bit, he has a really nice touch around the rim. The quickness does help him a lot on D, he moves very nice laterally. Not really sure he's an NBA pro but the raw tools are there.

With DraftExpress dead, there's no one to rank 1,000 players across the country and I'm sure Soluey Boum would probably be ranked 800 or something but I was really impressed by him. Like I usually tune out everyone but who I'm watching to watch but he really caught my eye. If this guy showed up cooking gas on a summer league squad after he graduates, I wouldn't be shocked.

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

someone, somewhere, has talked trash about the university of kansas, and this is very unacceptable


Yo, my team just kicked his rear end, but Trae Young is still The Truth.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008



Grimey Drawer

Tremont Waters will have a solid overseas career.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

I used to think the David Robinson comp was awful because David Robinson was one of the league's best defenders. I can absolutely see it tonight though, with Ayton just dictating what happens on both sides of the court. God drat Ayton is awesome.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

Rick posted:

I used to think the David Robinson comp was awful because David Robinson was one of the league's best defenders. I can absolutely see it tonight though, with Ayton just dictating what happens on both sides of the court. God drat Ayton is awesome.

Do you think he'll be able to continue to grow as a defender

Before the choice was "Tall Kyrie Irving with Rubio passing who'll be a career injury risk due to hunchback and never defend at anything better than 'average'" or "True center scoring machine who is lazy on defense, meaning his team would never be especially good"

If Ayton can improve his defense he separates himself from Bagley, who'll take a few years to find a role other than AAU roving Duke 4, and Porter who we just haven't seen a lot of, although he could be a better Tobias Harris with more finesse

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

How many future firsts + Andre Drummond would the PIstons have to trade to get into "Jaren Jackson Jr" range

If he can really be a good defensive center who shoots threes, they might be able to make something happen.

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006

you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.


Dejan Bimble posted:

How many future firsts + Andre Drummond would the PIstons have to trade to get into "Jaren Jackson Jr" range

If he can really be a good defensive center who shoots threes, they might be able to make something happen.

I think it would depend on who originally would be picking JJJ.

Given his mind boggling improvement in FT%, I don't think Drummond's contract is too onerous.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Dejan Bimble posted:

Do you think he'll be able to continue to grow as a defender

Before the choice was "Tall Kyrie Irving with Rubio passing who'll be a career injury risk due to hunchback and never defend at anything better than 'average'" or "True center scoring machine who is lazy on defense, meaning his team would never be especially good"

If Ayton can improve his defense he separates himself from Bagley, who'll take a few years to find a role other than AAU roving Duke 4, and Porter who we just haven't seen a lot of, although he could be a better Tobias Harris with more finesse

I think Ayton CAN improve as a defender, but in the past you've talked about "Playing Defense - Not Cool" syndrome and that's been hard to break. He's improved a lot in one season but still sometimes is too cool to defend. Under all the drama he's gone through the past two weeks, it seems to have awakened someone who is defending with passion and as a "gently caress you" to the media, the road crowd, and anyone who doesn't think that 100k is a bargain price for one year of him. If he can end up somewhere where he can get some motivation, the sky is the limit. His reach when jumping is so high and his timing is so good (his rebounding is a nice demonstration of this--not only is he good at pulling the ball down, but he's also good at generally causing guys to foul him while he does this) that applied to defense he basically changes every single possession, while avoiding fouls very well.

What I worry about is him ending up in Phoenix where everyone is a Cool Guy and defense is lame and by the time he ends up somewhere that defense matters it'll be too late. I don't think he's a guy who is very much of a self-motivator. I also don't think sitting behind Marc Gasol for two or three years would be good for him either.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Game I watched (Duke vs Miami) was an object lesson in why it's important to watch more than one game, because of the 7 or so prospects on the floor, Bagley was probably the second worst.

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paternity suitor
Aug 2, 2016



The more I read about Mo Bamba, the more I love this dude. Mo's sense of humor comp is a more well spoken but less subversive Embiid, so he is now my new favorite player in the draft:

https://youtu.be/2MT04aQ2C80

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