Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«2 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

MassRafTer posted:

I have absolutely no problem with people not voting for CMLL in most categories even if they watch it. They had a great year but didn't have that one real emotional climax that would give them a shot at MOTY, didn't really push their biggest and best for their biggest matches and so the stand out performances were kind of mixed in between half a dozen guys.

I do think Micro Man is a very legitimate candidate for Rookie of the Year, Diamante Azul vs Pierroth is a candidate for Worst Feud and Soberano Jr is in the running for most improved.

Would you stump for CMLL Friday Night as best weekly show? I think NJPW on AXS will win (source: me watching that instead of CMLL every week) but heard nothing but great things about the CMLL shows.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Big Coffin Hunter posted:

While Okada/Omega and Naito/Tanahashi are easy one and two for feud of the year, for those not into Reigns/Strowman I think there's a really good argument to be made for New Day/Usos. While the ending to the first match was meh, it went along into some of the best matches WWE has done all year, ending in that amazing hell in a cell match

Aw damnit, I knew I forgot someone there

Yeah, Usos/New Day totally deserves Feud of the Year votes.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Benne posted:

Would you stump for CMLL Friday Night as best weekly show? I think NJPW on AXS will win (source: me watching that instead of CMLL every week) but heard nothing but great things about the CMLL shows.

For the first half of the year I would go for Puebla but Fridays have been better lately, especially when they started ramping up for the Grand Prix. Puebla has a lot of fun silly stuff like Police Man and Metalico entrances, but the booking is a bit more frustrating. Fridays have better matches but a bit less roster variety (which is a good thing given Puebla openers.)

My tastes are weird but it'd be a realistic thing to stump for that Dave would probably even agree with and could maybe get some serious momentum. But instead MICRO MAN FOR ROY!

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

MassRafTer posted:

For the first half of the year I would go for Puebla but Fridays have been better lately, especially when they started ramping up for the Grand Prix. Puebla has a lot of fun silly stuff like Police Man and Metalico entrances, but the booking is a bit more frustrating. Fridays have better matches but a bit less roster variety (which is a good thing given Puebla openers.)

My tastes are weird but it'd be a realistic thing to stump for that Dave would probably even agree with and could maybe get some serious momentum. But instead MICRO MAN FOR ROY!

Most of that sounds really fun, and when I do get the time CMLL Friday is always a blast. Just can't watch it enough to vote it No.1.

Does CMLL have a serious argument for Best Promotion, or is it NJPW, ROH and everyone else fighting for third place?

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



I'd go New Japan, CMLL and maybe ROH for me...

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Benne posted:

Most of that sounds really fun, and when I do get the time CMLL Friday is always a blast. Just can't watch it enough to vote it No.1.

Does CMLL have a serious argument for Best Promotion, or is it NJPW, ROH and everyone else fighting for third place?

CMLL had a very good year business wise and was really good in ring too. Partially frustrating given some of the weird pushes, but they were also without Atlantis which probably changed some plans. That actually makes the second half of the year more impressive.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



MassRafTer posted:

I have absolutely no problem with people not voting for CMLL in most categories even if they watch it. They had a great year but didn't have that one real emotional climax that would give them a shot at MOTY, didn't really push their biggest and best for their biggest matches and so the stand out performances were kind of mixed in between half a dozen guys.

I do think Micro Man is a very legitimate candidate for Rookie of the Year, Diamante Azul vs Pierroth is a candidate for Worst Feud and Soberano Jr is in the running for most improved.

Nuevo Generacion Dinamitas (Sanson, Cuatrero, and Forastero) is gonna be number #1 on my Tag Team ballot and deserve some attention but otherwise agreed.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Thauros posted:

Nuevo Generacion Dinamitas (Sanson, Cuatrero, and Forastero) is gonna be number #1 on my Tag Team ballot and deserve some attention but otherwise agreed.

NGD are great and part of the reason I want to know if Trios are actually eligible. I legitimately only pay attention to the Observer Awards in years I want to promote a truly deserving candidate.

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?

- Incubus



Doctor Rope

Feels Villeneuve posted:

I haven't watched much Lucha this year but does anything there beat the House of Horrors for Worst Worked Match

Diamante Azul vs Pierroth

If were really being petty, the CMLL Legends show from a few weeks ago had a spectacularly terrible main event, but the combined age in the ring was probably over 300.

Edit: actually the worst match 2 years ago was a team of aging Villanos and the clowns, so yeah 2 super old trios including a Villano is fair game. Especially since they could've stuck Negro Casas in that match so it's at least passable

exploded mummy fucked around with this message at Dec 7, 2017 around 21:56

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


exploded mummy posted:

Diamante Azul vs Pierroth

If were really being petty, the CMLL Legends show from a few weeks ago had a spectacularly terrible main event, but the combined age in the ring was probably over 300.

Their actual apuestas match wasn't that bad, the feud itself sucked though.

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?

- Incubus



Doctor Rope

It wasnt what it was for the effort thwy put into it.

Also when does the WON ballot cutoff again. I can't remember if the legends match would meet it for 2017.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


exploded mummy posted:

It wasnt what it was for the effort thwy put into it.

Also when does the WON ballot cutoff again. I can't remember if the legends match would meet it for 2017.

November 30th.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

exploded mummy posted:

Diamante Azul vs Pierroth

If were really being petty, the CMLL Legends show from a few weeks ago had a spectacularly terrible main event, but the combined age in the ring was probably over 300.

I watched that match after the B&V review and yeah, it's pretty poo poo. But it was at least bad in an entertaining way, while House of Horrors was a loving chore to sit through.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

#RXTREVOLUTIONFOREVER6


For best Weekly TV I want to stump for NXT for coming back in a strong way after a really lazy 2016 where the main singles title felt like it was just being centered around a feud between Joe and Nakamura all year round. They changed up the presentation, gave more vignettes and promo segements to build character, started to have really good TV matches instead of just middling matches to set up for the Takeovers and the only negative I can say is that the Full Sail crowd is just dead a lot nowadays in terms of reaction and heat.

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.


the worst match of the year was Ethan Page vs Darby Allin at Evolve 81

the worst feud of the year was also Ethan Page vs Darby Allin

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


that feud was awesome

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.


it sucked rear end in a bad way

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Alright, on to the rest of my list.

PROMOTION OF THE YEAR

1) New Japan Pro Wrestling
2) Ring of Honor
3) CMLL

Honorable mentions: WWE, Progress, PWG

NJPW made its long-awaited push into the American market, and early returns are promising. Even without that, they're clearly in a middle of a massive boom that's not slowing down any time soon. Easy choice for No. 1. ROH and CMLL also did great business, and as much as we bag on WWE creative, their revenues keep growing, so uh, that's something.

BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW

1) NJPW on AXS
2) WWE NXT
3) CMLL Friday nights

Some people didn't like the AXS show winning last year as a glorified clip show, and the JR/Josh Barnett team is divisive (stemming from an admittedly rough performance at the Long Beach show). But at the end of the day, my question is this -- does the show have the best wrestling on TV? Then it's the best wrestling TV show. They've also gotten much better at airing matches on a quick turnaround, showing the major G1 and KOPW matches only a couple months after the fact. Also I like JR and Josh, so

NXT reinvigorated itself after a down 2016 and is once again the best product WWE produces. CMLL's Friday show gets consistently good reviews and its easy accessibility to American fans is a major point in its favor.

PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR

1) Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW Dominion
2) Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11
3) Kazuchika Okada vs. Katsuyori Shibata, NJPW Sakura Genesis

Honorable mentions: Tetsuya Naito vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, NJPW Dominion; Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW G1 Climax; Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega, NJPW G1 Climax Final; Hiromu Takahashi vs. KUSHIDA, NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11; Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne, NXT TakeOver Chicago; Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii, NJPW G1 Special in Long Beach; John Cena vs. AJ Styles, WWE Royal Rumble; Sanity vs. Undisputed Era vs. Authors of Pain & Roderick Strong, NXT TakeOver WarGames; Will Ospreay vs. Ricochet, NJPW Best of Super Juniors; Asuka vs. Ember Moon, NXT TakeOver Brooklyn III; Braun Strowman vs. Roman Reigns vs. Samoa Joe vs. Brock Lesnar, WWE SummerSlam

*deep breath* God drat, what an incredible year of matches. I haven't even scratched the surface -- the honorable mentions list could go much, much longer. My top 3 is pretty set at this point, even with the tragic ending to Okada/Shibata (your mileage will vary on that).

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR

Abstain, mostly because Hirai Kawato isn't eligible.

BEST NON-WRESTLER

1) Daryl Takahashi
2) Zelina Vega
3) Dario Cueto

Honorable mentions: Daniel Bryan, Maryse, Paul Ellering

Daryl is love, Daryl is life. But I wanna talk about Zelina for a minute, because she and Almas instantly connected, to the point where Almas' NXT career went from "dead in the water to "champion" almost overnight. CMLL purists will probably blanche at La Sombra losing his mask, getting a mouthpiece, and not being tranquilo anymore. But sometimes, when WWE gets it right, they get it right -- Almas/Zelina is a money act. May his title reign be long and prosperous.

Let's give a shoutout to Maryse and wish her the best in her pregnancy. Miz really hasn't been the same since she left TV, and the Miztourage is a poor replacement (don't @ me).

Also, pour one out for Dario, still the best thing about LU. Hopefully he recovers from his gunshot wound in time for Season 4

BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER

1) Corey Graves
2) Mauro Ranallo
3) Don Callis

Honorable mentions: Nigel McGuinness

Really not a good year for announcers, with most of the WWE crew going to poo poo even after JBL left. I'll give the nod to Corey, since at least he's supposed to be obnoxious and knows what he's doing. I still like Mauro, but someone needs to tell him that going HEY KIDS I KNOW DANK HIP-HOP MEMES every time a black man is in the ring is ... not a good look.

WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER

1) Percy Watson
2) JBL
3) Josh Barnett

JBL didn't gently caress off until September, so he had a good strong year being the worst announcer on Smackdown. Percy is hopelessly out of his depth, to the point where they barely even let him talk outside of ad reads. I mentioned above that I actually like the JR/Barnett team on AXS, and when they're just calling the matches they're good. But man, when Josh has to get over his weird references while JR sits there in confused silence, it's pretty painful.

BEST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW

1) NJPW Dominion
2) NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11
3) NXT TakeOver Chicago

Honorable mentions: NJPW G1 Climax Final, NXT TakeOver WarGames, NXT TakeOver Brooklyn III, NJPW G1 Special in Long Beach

Dominion was in wrestling form, about as close to perfect as a wrestling show can get. And WK was really good too! NXT also roared back with its best batch of TakeOver shows since the Sami/Neville/Horsewomen glory days.

Category B

WORST MAJOR WRESTLING SHOW

1) WWE Battleground

Honorable mentions: AAA TripleMania 25, WWE Survivor Series, Impact Bound for Glory

TripleMania was by all accounts a total shitshow, but I never got around to watching it so apparently I was the winner. I did watch Battleground, which once again lived up (down?) to its reputation as the consistently worst WWE show of the year.

BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER

1) Kairi Sane's elbow

Honorable mentions: Ember Moon's Eclipse, Velveteen Dream's elbow, AJ Styles' Phenomenal Forearm, Kenny Omega's One Winged Angel

Pretty good year for elbow/forearm moves.

MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC

1) WWE lionizing Warrior for PR purposes

Honorable mentions: WWE lionizing Jimmy Snuka, Impact pushing Alberto El Patron after domestic violence allegations, AAA pushing Sexy Star, AAA stripping Taya of her belt for bullshit reasons

Lots of "good" choices this year, and I'll go with the Warrior thing, which WWE is still pushing for some reason. He died three years ago, nobody is sad anymore. Did they just assume we'd forget all the horrible poo poo he said/did? This also extends to Dana Warrior, who is apparently as big a tool as her late husband was. Just gross all around.

WORST TELEVISION SHOW

1) WWE SmackDown Live

Honorable mentions: WWE Raw, Impact

The rise and fall of SmackDown Live can be traced not to the moment Road Dogg became booker, but to the moment Shane decided to make it The Shane McMahon Show. Starting with the AJ feud, continuing into the Owens feud, and to his reign of terror today, Shane made the entire show about Shane, betraying the original ethos of "it's about the wrestlers, not the authority figures." Maybe that was the plan all along given the heel turn rumors, but it doesn't excuse the vast majority of 2017 SmackDown revolving around a McMahon. Wasn't that supposed to be Raw's job?

Also Jinder was champion. Remember that? It really happened.

WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR

1) Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss, Kendo Stick on a Pole Match, WWE Extreme Rules

Honorable mentions: Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, House of Horrors, WWE Payback; Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, WWE WrestleMania 33; Jinder Mahal vs. Randy Orton, Punjabi Prison, WWE Battleground; Triple H, Kurt Angle, Braun Strowman, Finn Balor, Samoa Joe vs. Shane McMahon, Randy Orton, Bobby Roode, John Cena, Shinsuke Nakamura, WWE Survivor Series

There are matches with bad wrestling, matches with bad booking, matches with convoluted rules, and matches that derail careers. It takes a special kind of match to combine all that and be a real Worst Match of the Year contender. Bayley/Alexa fits the bill in my book. Bad wrestling? Five minutes of sloppy work built around a confusing stip. Bad booking? The bully heel goes over clean, destroying whatever cred the scrappy babyface had left. Convoluted rules? Oh, you betcha. The whole thing was that only the person who grabbed the kendo stick off the pole can use it legally, but Bayley dropped it and then Alexa used it, which is apparently fine for some reason. Derailing careers? Welp, Bayley is deader than disco, and even Alexa hasn't recovered despite still being champ. Perhaps because all her babyface challengers -- like, say, Bayley -- have been killed beyond repair.

House of Horrors might be more memorably bad, but who did it affect negatively? Randy is still a top guy, Bray is still a dumbshit geek. Nothing changed there. Bayley/Alexa changed everything for the worse, so it's my pick for Worst Match of 2017.

WORST FEUD OF THE YEAR

1) Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss

Honorable mentions: Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton, Jinder Mahal vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, Bray Wyatt vs. Finn Balor, Dolph Ziggler vs. Bobby Roode

See above, and then add in Bayley This Is Your Life, easily the worst Raw segment of the year.

WORST PROMOTION OF THE YEAR

1) AAA

Honorable mention: Impact

Is this the year TNA finally gets dethroned? AAA has been a total shitshow on all fronts -- bad business, horrible talent relations, scummy carny practices (let's not forget them stripping Taya of her belt and making up bullshit reasons after the fact, only to hand the belt to loving Sexy Star). But Impact is pushing Alberto in 2017, so they won't give up their crown without a fight.

BEST BOOKER

1) Gedo

Yeah

BEST GIMMICK

1) Hiromu Takahashi & Daryl

Honorable mentions: EVIL, Broken/Woken Matt Hardy, Fashion Police, Drew Gulak, Toru Yano

Daryl is love, Daryl is life.

WORST GIMMICK

1) Bray Wyatt

No honorable mentions. This is the only thing that needs to be considered.

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



Agreed on Alexa/Bayley being worst match and feud. I'd go far enough to say Alexa is most overrated outside of Jinder and Shane. She's not terrible but even outside of the bad booking she hasn't really had a memorable match or feud since she left Smackdown.

Takahashi and Daryl is a great gimmick, as are all your honorable mentions except Matt Hardy. I love the gimmick but realistically between Wrestlemania and last week he wasn't doing the broken gimmick and we only had one segment in the November-November timeline. I'd also argue Braun Strowman's monster gimmick is another contender

Also the Shibata/Okada match was amazing but personally I'm not going to put it in the top 3 because of the aftermath. No problem to you or anyone else who will but I'm kind of uncomfortable doing that myself.

Personally, I'd put Bryan as 2nd best non-wrestler (Daryl is love, Daryl is life)

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Bard Maddox posted:

the worst match of the year was Ethan Page vs Darby Allin at Evolve 81

the worst feud of the year was also Ethan Page vs Darby Allin

Is that the match with the bodybag?

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010



that feud was fine and had some really fun spots in it. the only problem was the extremely loving stupid blowoff at EVOLVE 82, both on a booking and working level

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?

- Incubus



Doctor Rope

My Promotion of the Year is
1. NJPW
2. CMLL
3. WWE


ROH in a distant fourth, being only separated from AAW/Beyond/Evolve in a distant fifth by the fact that they've made more money.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



MassRafTer posted:

KUSHIDA has been my choice for the last few years. WWE has a few candidates among their smaller dudes and there's a flurry of them in Mexico.


Please tell me more about these lucha technicians.

Bard Maddox
Feb 15, 2012

I'm just a sick guy, I'm really just a dirty guy.


sportsgenius86 posted:

Is that the match with the bodybag?

yes, I was thinking of the last man standing one at 82 when darby got his arm broken by being hit with a shovel and then going ten minutes after that, five of which was trying to be maneuvered into a body bag with a broken arm and then being powerbombed onto it, which was excruciatingly bad to watch

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Suplex Liberace posted:

Please tell me more about these lucha technicians.

I'd have to think about who the standout younger guys are but historically guys like Black Terry and Negro Casas are amazing. Casas has lost a step this year but even a couple years ago would be a good pick in best technical. Black Terry might still be. He's had some great matches this year.

Edit: I know he's not the best but the first name that came to mind is The Panther. I love him.

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at Dec 9, 2017 around 04:40

Cardboard Box
Jul 14, 2009



Benne posted:

WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER

1) Percy Watson
2) JBL
3) Josh Barnett

wow, booker t didn't even rate?

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Big Coffin Hunter posted:

Takahashi and Daryl is a great gimmick, as are all your honorable mentions except Matt Hardy. I love the gimmick but realistically between Wrestlemania and last week he wasn't doing the broken gimmick and we only had one segment in the November-November timeline. I'd also argue Braun Strowman's monster gimmick is another contender.

Eh, the Broken thing was still going strong from November to Mania weekend, complete with a Young Bucks feud that lived up to the hype and did big business. It definitely fizzled out after that, but I thought it was still good enough for honorable mention placement. And hey, if the rumors are true and Matt has creative control over Woken, then I might actually get my hopes up for it.

Braun is also a good choice.

Cardboard Box posted:

wow, booker t didn't even rate?

God, I forgot. The Raw announce team is such white noise these days that Booker's badness barely even registered, but he does belong up there.

Benne fucked around with this message at Dec 9, 2017 around 07:04

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



We forgot about how bad Booker was cause he actually was an improvement over Otunga

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



Benne posted:

Eh, the Broken thing was still going strong from November to Mania weekend, complete with a Young Bucks feud that lived up to the hype and did big business. It definitely fizzled out after that, but I thought it was still good enough for honorable mention placement. And hey, if the rumors are true and Matt has creative control over Woken, then I might actually get my hopes up for it.

I can see that, to be fair I forgot the Broken Hardys/Bucks stuff was going on in November through Mania and thought it was earlier in 2016. On the other hand I don't like voting on what things COULD end up being so I wouldn't count any of the Woken Hardy stuff personally.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Big Coffin Hunter posted:

I can see that, to be fair I forgot the Broken Hardys/Bucks stuff was going on in November through Mania and thought it was earlier in 2016. On the other hand I don't like voting on what things COULD end up being so I wouldn't count any of the Woken Hardy stuff personally.

Yeah, the Woken stuff is very much "wait and see," especially with Jeff still on the shelf indefinitely. But even without that, the Hardys did good work with The Bar and helped carry the Raw tag division after New Day went to SD. I feel like people underrate their WWE run because they didn't immediately go Broken after coming back.

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



Benne posted:

Yeah, the Woken stuff is very much "wait and see," especially with Jeff still on the shelf indefinitely. But even without that, the Hardys did good work with The Bar and helped carry the Raw tag division after New Day went to SD. I feel like people underrate their WWE run because they didn't immediately go Broken after coming back.

I actually liked their run, but in the conversation of Best Gimmick their WWE run was an Old School Hardy Boyz run, a drat fine one that sometimes had a fun reference to the Broken gimmick. Maybe like 5th best tag of the year? Not to insult them it's going to be hard to beat the Bucks, Usos, New Day, etc. but yeah I don't think that run should be included in this specific vote

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


After seeing the EVOLVE business chart and how well Timothy Thatcher's reign did (comparatively speaking) I feel even sillier for not mentioning Stokely Hathaway as a candidate for Best Non Wrestler. Obviously that reign was prior to this year but that act was over and Big Stoke is great in his role.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«2 »