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GimmickMan posted:Eiger's failure path is exactly as disappointing with proper context as I remember feeling it was when I got it. Yeah, without even the Winternight hook there really isn't much to the run unfortunately. It feels a bit rushed compared to the other DC runs, I also found it really odd that using the propane explosive entry into the warehouse somehow ends up being the more beneficial approach even though it was clearly emphasized that it'd immediately alert the Engineer and all that. Ultimately he doesn't even get a headstart or anything. I've been pretty deliberate with the mission order and leaving Glory's run last and after Eiger's was definitely always the plan, I still don't outright dislike The Engineer or anything but it's forgettable enough that doing it after Feuerstelle would've made it feel like an especially flaccid finish to the crew missions. Keldulas posted:I grabbed the chip out of the bot with Quickness. Unfortunately the threat of being burned is kind of hollow because the game made it pretty clear there weren't going to be any fights after the Engineer chase sequence. So any damage received completely doesn't matter, which is an unfortunate gameplay/immersion segregation. I didn't test but my assumption is that if you do have less than 15 HP left as a result of the previous fight (which is not super likely since you heal up the last hit you take at the end of a battle) then it'll probably kill you. But yeah, mostly there for flavor. SirFozzie posted:I was reading the Shadowrun Returns LP, and I came across something interesting. There was definitely talk about the Telestrians but I can't recall if that specific book came up. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Feb 19, 2020 |
# ? Feb 19, 2020 12:23 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:57 |
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Part 55 - On the Road of Redemption NEW MUSIC: (Definitely one of my personal favorite ambient tracks in the game and recommended listening for these updates for the proper mood.) Well we're definitely not in urban Berlin anymore. They really run a cult from there? Looks kinda cozy really, maybe the Firewing wouldn't find us in a remote place like this. Yes, I can feel it. It's almost... pleasant. It's meant to be. That's how it gets to you. It worms its way inside of you, *changes* you, and you don't even realize what's happening until it's too late. When you say "the young," how young do you mean? I need to know what we're walking into. Never have had to make the call of what to do if a first-grader suddenly sprouted raven wings and started spitting acid at us or whatever it is cults like this engage in, and it'd be nice to keep it that way. Teenagers, mostly. Sixteen through eighteen, though there is the rare exception. So, not *that* young, then. Not children. There was a time when Harrow played with luring younger children here, but he found them to be more trouble than they were worth. The younger the child, the more likely that someone might come looking for them. So I'll ask you again: are you ready for this? I need an honest answer. Well we're really good at dealing with thugs and assholes, stealing company secrets, setting security guards on fire, that kinda thing. This place though, been a while since we've last felt this out of our element. Honestly? I'm not sure. If you have doubts, clear them from your mind. This place will use them to hurt you. This is beginning to sound like something out of a horror movie. That's because it's going to be. Feuerstelle is a vile, toxic place. I still have nightmares about some of the things that I saw here... after tonight, you might wind up with a few of your own. ...Starting to understand why it's us doing most of the comforting whenever we have one of our heart-to-heart conversations. Well whatever, we didn't drive across an entire country just to turn tail and run away after getting here, gas ain't free after all. And it's not like a nightmare or two is ever going to cause real trouble for anyone. I'm a big girl, Glory. I can handle a few bad dreams. [She studies your face for a moment longer, then looks away.] Good. You wanna compare notes, make sure that we're both on the same page? Right, we made the decision to focus on playing the saviors instead of the avengers. You sure we can't have our cake and eat it too though? We rescue the kids here, yeah. But I think that we should also try to kill Harrow. Planning on that would be a mistake. This is going to be difficult enough as it is... if we don't focus our efforts on one thing or the other, we're going to fail at both. If we get an opportunity to take the bastard down along the way, we'll take it - that goes without saying. But barring that, we should stay focused on getting those kids out of here. So a clear "two distinct paths" -sorta deal then, alright. We haven't started anything yet so we could still ask to change tack, but let's just stay the course and focus on minimizing the teenager bodycount as best we can, horror movie vibes or not. Fair enough. We stick with the plan and rescue the cultists. Do you know how you want to approach this? Tell me more about this shrine. It's a lump of rock about as tall as I am, inscribed with runes and encrusted with bone. Its power comes from an entity that Harrow bound into the stone... something very old, and very dangerous. A toxic spirit. In many ways, it is the heart of this place. Alternatively: quote:This is getting too complicated. We should just kick in the door, round up the cultists, and get them out of here. So shrine first, then the kids. Should maybe write this down so that we don't get it the wrong way around. I want to hash out a few more details before we head inside. That makes sense. If you have any questions, it'd be best if you asked them now. So how do we purify the spirit? Some sort of ceremony or ritual? Why didn't we bring Dietrich with us anyway, it's not his totem but he'd probably know a thing or two about this spirit stuff. Stupid personal mission rules... Something like that. It'll be easier to just show you... I've got everything we'll need right here. [She pats the satchel that hangs from her shoulder.] When the time comes, I'll conduct the ritual. But before I can do that, we're going to have to face the spirit on its own terms. And that's going to be dangerous, Rosa. Why attempt to purify the spirit at all? Why not just kill it? That spirit has its fingers in the minds and auras of every kid in this compound. If we kill it, those kids will get hurt. They might even be killed. We can't take that risk. But if we can cleanse the Adversary's corruption from it, it might withdraw from their minds willingly. ...And then we can get them out of here. Exactly. So the kids here doing whatever unpleasant cult stuff they're doing are under the influence of some kind of spirit? That probably wouldn't pass in court, but... If the shrine controls the people here, then how do you have anything to feel guilty about? Nothing that you did under Harrow was really your fault. Back before I ran away, Feuerstelle was nothing more than a cult of personality that revolved around Harrow. He didn't need magical help to keep us here - we loved him, and we believed in his message. He created the shrine as an insurance policy. And you think that something has changed, and that he's started abusing the shrine's power. [She nods.] Yes. And I think that my escape was the cause of that change. I know Harrow. When I ran, I bruised his ego. His charisma and charm had failed him, and my disappearance rubbed his nose in that failure. Always with these perfectionist types, fail one dialogue check and they bust out the cheats to make sure they'll never get a suboptimal quest resolution again. He wouldn't be willing to chance something like that happening again. Not when he had the means to prevent it. So the cultists here... they're like puppets? The shrine controls them? In essence, all of the street kids here are addicted this place. That makes them a threat, yes... but it also makes them victims. So kinda like more traditional violent drug or BTL junkies, never feels great when you end up having to take them down in self-defense even though you obviously do what you gotta do. Just have to try and keep things from escalating as best we can. I've heard enough. Let's get this show on the road. [She nods, and the razors flick out of her fingertips.] I'm with you. Let's do it. Time to get started. "Keep Glory safe" instead of the usual "Glory must survive" though, kind of cute. No romances in these games but the tone always seems to be a bit more personal with Glory than the other crew members. We'll see who ends up keeping who safe here though. Alright spooky house, give it your worst. Gah, this place is definitely bad news already. What kind of internal decorator places potted palm trees and a drat bear rug in the same entrance hall? What kinda tropical hunting lodge look are we going for here exactly? Come on. Place looked a lot smaller from the outside, you could drive a truck through these hallways. Quiet enough so far at least, not a soul in sight. A door this fancy has to have something important behind it. Say, a shrine housing a toxic spirit in need of a good scrubbing perhaps? The hell, is this door actually putting up a fight? A fancy set of planks, thinking it can stop a mind forged in the flames of magic and tempered harder than the toughest steel by years of rigorous mental training? Ridiculous! Oh yeah? We conjure up hellfire to burn our enemies to crisp every day, and you think we're scared of a bit of heat and some pretty lights? Think again! Don't. It's just a door, Glory! A door! Countless men and beasts have fallen before our arcane might, Rosa the Mage is sure as hell not going to be beaten by a goddamn... ...door! ah gently caress poo poo hot hot ow gently caress ah loving hell that burns jesus ow I-I-I'm the b-boss h-h-here. [She rolls her eyes.] And I'm the one who knew better than to touch a warded door. You okay? I'll live. Our poor pride is probably never going to make a full recovery though. Unbelieveable. [Glory stares into the light, frowning.] The shrine room is through there, but this barrier wasn't here before. Harrow must have warded the doorway after I ran. Fantastic. Now what? The ward is like a lock. There must be a key. Back when I helped Harrow run this place, he and I were the only ones allowed in the shrine room. So we look for whoever has taken my place... that's where the key will be. How will we know who that is? "Insignia of rank", in other words this Harrow is horny for redheads. One can only hope we can get through this thing remaining blissfully ignorant about any of the guy's worse fetishes. A girl with red hair. Got it. We leave the massive jerk of a shrine door behind for now and follow the hallway south, but after a bit of walking we find ourselves back where we started. No less than seven doors line the walls of this looping hallway, all ordinary-looking but unlabeled. Glory has no insight to offer as to which door leads where, so we'll just start from the first one to the north of our starting point. Fortunately this particular door was more cooperative than the last one. No one home either, but judging by the fancy decor... could it be that we stumbled into the head honcho's office right off the bat? If so then this terminal should hold some juicy information for us. Except... ...Harrow is unfortunately not as incompetent with technology as many of our past targets, and we're not going to be able to get access to this thing without Decking 5. Where's Blitz when you need that lazy bastard? Stupid computers. Good old-fashioned books are more our style, don't need to throw away your dignity and sex life to learn how to get one open. Harrow's manifesto. The handcrafted line of bullshit that he feeds to his initiates. We all ate it up with a smile, and came away convinced that he was a genius. [She leafs through the pages with an articulated finger.] Looks like he's expanded it over the last few years. It's at least twice as thick as it was when I lived here. Maybe there's something in there that we can use. Sick experiments as in like "putting raspberry jam on pizza" or like "ah but what if baby but with spider legs"? ...Nevermind, we can probably guess. I was never allowed in this room without Harrow... nobody was. He said that it was for our safety, and I think that he was telling the truth. [She pauses.] I feel uneasy being in here. I don't want to stay any longer than we have to. I've been on edge since we came in. But that doesn't change the fact that we should learn what we can. All right. I'll watch your back. But try to be quick. Alternatively: quote:That's just your old self talking. Your past, coming back to haunt you. Harrow's Manifesto posted:
Ah so it's kinda crap, huh. Selling freedom and power to the shackled and the powerless. Pretty classic cult stuff. That ominous feeling is getting stronger, Rosa. It feels like we're being watched. There's no one here Glory, chill. Got a bit more to go. Harrow's Rules of Living posted:
Sure feels like there's a lot of "how to gently caress impressionable teenagers from a position of authority" between the lines here. Bleh. (Academic) I'm getting the feeling that this entire thing is written in doublespeak. I doubt if there's a single statement in here that isn't contradicted somewhere else. [She nods.] A fact that Harrow and I used to our own advantage. We could justify just about anything by pointing to that manifesto. If an act is forbidden in one place, it's permitted somewhere else. If an initiate ever questioned our behavior, we could claim that he just didn't understand the meaning of the book. The other kids would look at him as the ignorant one. It's all bullshit, like I said. Clever bullshit, but bullshit all the same. There we go with the horror movie stuff again... We're almost done though, this isn't exactly literary award material but information is power and we don't have a lot of it. [Continue reading.] You keep an eye out - I have to finish this. There might be something in here that we need. Glory's right, in the end it all comes down to manipulative bullshit made easy to swallow by a charismatic authority figure and a pliable audience. She's probably also right that we should take our leave right about now. Done. This philosophy of Harrow's really starts to break dow-- What in the Rosa! Look out! Gah, so much pain today and we only just got here! This place is terrible! Whatever hosed up spirit this monstrosity is, it's not very sturdy. Traditional methods work on it just fine too, so despite it getting the jump on us it's quickly dispatched afterwards. Well that was unexpected. Also, gross. What the hell was that?! A headless abomination just pissed lighter fluid onto the floor and tried to burn us to death. I think that "things can come through" is underselling it a bit. [She shrugs.] Semantics. Now can we please get out of here before it happens again? Yeah, good plan. Only one room in and it's already pretty apparent that this one's going to be an all around unpleasant house tour. Join us next time as we dig deeper into the secrets of Feuerstelle and pray we don't unearth anything wet and squishy. Before anything else, I want to mention that this mission is pretty thick with dialogue choices and decisions, many just for flavor but a number of things do actually vary depending on what is chosen and in what order things are done even before taking into consideration the two different approaches. As always anything especially interesting that won't come up in the main LP is going to be covered here or separately after the run, but I just wanted to take a moment to appreciate how open-ended and intricately crafted this mission is compared to most others in ways that'll become apparent later. We've certainly come a long way from the mostly linear and lifeless missions of the previous game by this point. Anyway, on the alternate dialogue front, there's changing our order of priorities at the start of the mission: quote:If we get an opportunity to take the bastard down along the way, we'll take it - that goes without saying. But barring that, we should stay focused on getting those kids out of here. Having enough Decking to access Harrow's terminal which simply nets some paydata worth 270 nuyen: quote:Finally, two alternative choices to the Academic etiquette one we took after having read Harrow's Rules of Living: #1 quote:Clear, simple rules, with a focus on instant gratification. I can see why this would be appealing to a street kid. #2 quote:You're an intelligent woman, Glory. I can't believe that you couldn't see through this. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 20, 2020 |
# ? Feb 20, 2020 17:43 |
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the combat theme for this area: also extremely good welcome to the ultimate profanity in the eyes of the Adversary: I Gave You A Sword And You Built A loving Throne Out Of It harrow is playing with someone precisely nobody likes in this place.
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# ? Feb 20, 2020 20:22 |
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The atmosphere of Feuerstelle is so good. You usually wander empty halls in these games half-expecting enemies to pop out of a door or around a corner and when it happens you just nod and get the obligatory combat out of the way, knowing you can take them and that there are no consequences for murdering your way through a mission. Not here. During this mission you're hoping you don't run into anyone or anything, because there are so many ways that entering the lion's den to rescue brainwashed teenagers like this could go wrong, there's only two of you and the game has done a great job of selling that the Adversary is something you don't want to gently caress with. The hallways of Feuerstelle feel that much more tense and threatening as a result. I didn't have it in me to go through Dragonfall for a third time, and while I got the gist of the things I missed in this mission, it has so many variables that I'm sure there'll be something I had no idea about in this LP.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 00:26 |
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Kanfy posted:There was definitely talk about the Telestrians but I can't recall if that specific book came up. The events that they talk about (the destruction of one of their factories) happened in that book.. where Lynne works with the book's character to destroy the factory as part of the Inter-Telestrian war.. because the Telestrian folks (along with Lone Star) decided to test out a bio-agent against the Cutters gang (which kinda torqued off the main character, seeing as he was undercover with them at the time. edit: So the Telestrians have one go insane with the Bug Queen, the other likes to field test bioweapons/plagues on gangs. Great family. Can just imagine their family dinners.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 01:46 |
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Nice to see how many of the things I missed were bad ideas. I'm betting I'll see a lot more of those before we're done. And complimenting the bits GimmickMan brought up, I like that the game is confident enough in its writing to let you play rake at the gates of Hell despite the atmosphere. If your character is brave enough and/or stupid enough to go into this thing confident, they won't fill your dialogue tree with talk about being scared. They figure the mission itself does enough.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 02:22 |
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I totally understand why they went with limiting these missions to just you and the relevant companion, but I cannot help but wish that you could have brought the rest of the crew on this one. Dietrich would probably be lowkey losing his poo poo in this place.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 02:37 |
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My plan would have involved the isolated road that Harrow travels down on a regular basis in a highly recogniseable vehicle. Blow the van off the road with an IED, hose down the cab with machinegun fire, jobs a good one.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 02:53 |
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Kanfy posted:Always with these perfectionist types, fail one dialogue check and they bust out the cheats to make sure they'll never get a suboptimal quest resolution again. I'm tagged in this and I don't like it.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 04:08 |
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The Lone Badger posted:My plan would have involved the isolated road that Harrow travels down on a regular basis in a highly recogniseable vehicle. Blow the van off the road with an IED, hose down the cab with machinegun fire, jobs a good one. That'd take care of Harrow, but it wouldn't take care of the toxic shrine at the heart of the cult. Those things are bad juju and leaving them alone is just gonna let it metastasize.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 04:17 |
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habeasdorkus posted:That'd take care of Harrow, but it wouldn't take care of the toxic shrine at the heart of the cult. Those things are bad juju and leaving them alone is just gonna let it metastasize. A lot easier to deal with once its shaman is being hosed out of a pile of scrap metal.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 04:26 |
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There are very, very few Shadowrun problems that can't be solved by delivery drones with plastic explosives in them.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 05:00 |
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wiegieman posted:There are very, very few Shadowrun problems that can't be solved by delivery drones with plastic explosives in them. One more way Amazon is a perfect cyberpunk megacorp.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 05:05 |
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Working out that the barrier rating of a Safe is high enough to protect it and it's contents from C5 powerful enough to level the house is clearly the Shadowrun way.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 11:11 |
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Look, houses explode okay? It's just what they do.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 14:43 |
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Yeah, that's why the saying is "safe as safes" and not "safe as houses."
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 14:54 |
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Alacron posted:I totally understand why they went with limiting these missions to just you and the relevant companion, but I cannot help but wish that you could have brought the rest of the crew on this one. Dietrich would probably be lowkey losing his poo poo in this place. Oh, he would definitely be losing his poo poo. Kanfy posted:As always anything especially interesting that won't come up in the main LP is going to be covered here or separately after the run, but I just wanted to take a moment to appreciate how open-ended and intricately crafted this mission is compared to most others in ways that'll become apparent later. We've certainly come a long way from the mostly linear and lifeless missions of the previous game by this point. You can definitely alter the flavor and direction of this mission through dialogue in some pretty impressive ways. HBS had gotten a lot more confident in both themselves and the player by the time of the Director's Cut.
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# ? Feb 21, 2020 19:05 |
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I think the thread has posted about the Adversary before when we talked to Glory before, but can we get the tldr on him again? I know he is bad juju, but IIRC it was in a pretty hosed up way.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 05:40 |
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Basically Satan, and not the good one.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 06:08 |
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HardDiskD posted:I think the thread has posted about the Adversary before when we talked to Glory before, but can we get the tldr on him again? I know he is bad juju, but IIRC it was in a pretty hosed up way. The Adversary is basically Christian Satan. Mentor spirits aren't strictly good or evil, so in a good light he's all about rebellion, standing up to authority, protecting what's yours. In a bad light think manipulation, betrayal, enslavement.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 06:40 |
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You can safely assume that any spirit summoned by a cult leader will be a toxic spirit, which are universally bad news.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 07:05 |
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i don't think toxic Adversary shamans can be toxic without being obviously profane to Adversary, but since Adversary doesn't get even by revoking power like, say, Dog did to our buddy Jake before DMS, that's probably cold comfort to their victims.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 07:18 |
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Vadoc posted:Basically Satan, and not the good one.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 08:13 |
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the combat theme for this area: also extremely good It's pretty good but it's also definitely a Jon Everist track in that the best part takes while to kick in and makes you wish it was a bit longer because of how good it is. GimmickMan posted:I didn't have it in me to go through Dragonfall for a third time, and while I got the gist of the things I missed in this mission, it has so many variables that I'm sure there'll be something I had no idea about in this LP. I don't doubt it, we're going to do as complete a run as we can (which is pretty impossible in a blind playthrough) but even then I suspect the Extras sections are going to get pretty long. I'm pretty confident in saying that there's going to be at least something new for literally everyone in the thread this time around, there's quite a bit of dialogue you only see when you do things in a pretty specific order. Heck, even the guides and wikis that I sometimes use for reference have all missed certain things. HardDiskD posted:I think the thread has posted about the Adversary before when we talked to Glory before, but can we get the tldr on him again? I know he is bad juju, but IIRC it was in a pretty hosed up way. It was mentioned in the update before this one but Part 30 was the one where we talked to Glory and Aljernon about the Adversary and had some thread discussion about it afterwards. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Feb 22, 2020 |
# ? Feb 22, 2020 13:02 |
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Utgardaloki posted:i don't think toxic Adversary shamans can be toxic without being obviously profane to Adversary, but since Adversary doesn't get even by revoking power like, say, Dog did to our buddy Jake before DMS, that's probably cold comfort to their victims. Quorum posted:The Adversary doesn't mind you becoming an authority figure, so long as you're leading people in rebellion-- and a countercultural sadism cult would probably count. What it really doesn't care for is being a follower yourself. That said, it would probably find it funny as gently caress if your followers rebelled against you in turn. Yeah, that’s the thing about The Adversary and toxic shamanism. The Adversary won’t punish blasphemy/profaning by relinquishing power, oh no. That’s too simple, too gentle. What the Adversary will do is give your worst enemies and best friends the power to draw and quarter you, and then make sure the process is so painful and arduous that you’ll beg for death to free you from it. A keener shaman might argue that Glory’s entire character arc has been a punishment for profaning The Adversary - not a punishment to Glory, mind you, but to Harrow. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Feb 22, 2020 |
# ? Feb 22, 2020 13:45 |
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KataraniSword posted:Yeah, that’s the thing about The Adversary and toxic shamanism. The Adversary won’t punish blasphemy/profaning by relinquishing power, oh no. That’s too simple, too gentle. What the Adversary will do is give your worst enemies and best friends the power to draw and quarter you, and then make sure the process is so painful and arduous that you’ll beg for death to free you from it. A keener shaman might argue that Glory’s entire character arc has been a punishment for profaning The Adversary - not a punishment to Glory, mind you, but to Harrow. What goes around comes around. Sometimes you get what comes around. But sometimes you are what comes around.
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# ? Feb 22, 2020 14:23 |
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KataraniSword posted:A keener shaman might argue that Glory’s entire character arc has been a punishment for profaning The Adversary - not a punishment to Glory, mind you, but to Harrow.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 16:08 |
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I'd like to note my admiration for whoever wrote Harrow's "scripture" for managing to carefully, without saying anything overt, start part of my brain screaming as it realised the implications of each line. I remember being deeply pissed off when Mass Effect pulled the "free the hostages OR kill the mastermind" ending choice in one of its DLCs, but I see it's going to be a much harder decision this time around.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 19:21 |
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HardDiskD posted:I think the thread has posted about the Adversary before when we talked to Glory before, but can we get the tldr on him again? I know he is bad juju, but IIRC it was in a pretty hosed up way. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it's one of the neat things about toxic shamans- shamanism is a two-way street. totems warp their followers, sure, but so too do their followers warp their totems. and the human mind is remarkably good at finding interpretations that serve themselves. the Adversary -can- be fine. and frequently is in the world of Shadowrun. Toxic Adversary shamans, on the other hand, are worshipping Literally Satan, and the Adversary has Opinions about anyone who would try to emulate that loving loser
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 19:34 |
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KataraniSword posted:Yeah, that’s the thing about The Adversary and toxic shamanism. The Adversary won’t punish blasphemy/profaning by relinquishing power, oh no. That’s too simple, too gentle. What the Adversary will do is give your worst enemies and best friends the power to draw and quarter you, and then make sure the process is so painful and arduous that you’ll beg for death to free you from it. A keener shaman might argue that Glory’s entire character arc has been a punishment for profaning The Adversary - not a punishment to Glory, mind you, but to Harrow. Whether Totems/Spirits/HeraldricBeasts or whatever patron a Shaman (mechanic term) uses even exist I thought was deeply suspect? Like you could find a spirit or a great spirit who claims to be the Son of Raven or the Right Hand of The Dragonslayer, but breaking taboos and such could just as easily be an internal part of the magic users mind blocking their abilities I thought?
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 19:40 |
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Tylana posted:Whether Totems/Spirits/HeraldricBeasts or whatever patron a Shaman (mechanic term) uses even exist I thought was deeply suspect? Like you could find a spirit or a great spirit who claims to be the Son of Raven or the Right Hand of The Dragonslayer, but breaking taboos and such could just as easily be an internal part of the magic users mind blocking their abilities I thought? oh, they exist in some format. there are entities that grant greater ease in spellcasting, and there are benefits and penalties for adhering to their dictates if you swear to them. ask the dragons why they don't go to Egypt. they will change the subject. (frequently to "hey how did you get in here" and "can you go stand under the ketchup sprayer real fast, no reason") but trusting they are what they say they are is a bad move, because they're getting filtered through human understanding. Dragonslayer, Saint George, and Johnny Reb are three coats of paint on the same thing; behind every street shaman venerating the local Urban Combat team's mascot Dog is smiling, and Boar's eyes glint from everyone who sees their local understanding of The Defender in their dreams. when the Passions are fully awakened, they will claim their true names again. for now, they are still sleepy, and will be slapping the snooze button for a couple of decades.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 19:58 |
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Tylana posted:Whether Totems/Spirits/HeraldricBeasts or whatever patron a Shaman (mechanic term) uses even exist I thought was deeply suspect? Like you could find a spirit or a great spirit who claims to be the Son of Raven or the Right Hand of The Dragonslayer, but breaking taboos and such could just as easily be an internal part of the magic users mind blocking their abilities I thought? In that case you could see it as less of a direct block and more of an insidious self-sabotage. Not mentally refusing the power they’ve tapped into, but basing so much of their energy into subversion that they ultimately hoist their own petard. In that case, Harrow unquestionably brought this directly upon himself instead of arguably.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 19:58 |
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Whether you think totems/mentors actually exist ties into how you think magic works, subject on which there are many opinions and no conclusive evidence.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 20:44 |
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paragon1 posted:Whether you think totems/mentors actually exist ties into how you think magic works, subject on which there are many opinions and no conclusive evidence. It's the whole light-as-a-particle-or-a-wave thing again, except a thousand times worse because the answer doesn't just depend on how you look at it but also who's doing the looking and possibly the phase of the moon.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 20:53 |
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Is there a spirit of calm and silence? Cause I find the idea of a shaman who believes his actions keep cthulu asleep hilarious.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 21:00 |
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There's totems that promote stealth but not ones that put those aspects at the forefront. That's what homebrew is for.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 21:09 |
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Just imagine the faces of the corp management when they understand that a massive campaign of industrial sabotage was waged because their factories are loud enough to wake God. Or so the polite note left over say.
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# ? Feb 23, 2020 21:15 |
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By popular demand posted:Is there a spirit of calm and silence? Cause I find the idea of a shaman who believes his actions keep cthulu asleep hilarious. One of the more frustrating things about Magic in Shadowrun, from an in-world academic's perspective, is that it looks like there's potentially a spirit of anything if enough people believe fervently enough in the right circumstances.
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# ? Feb 24, 2020 19:39 |
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I'm picturing a shaman that taps into the zeitgeist of lullabies, just for their trappings being, like, soft flannel blankies and stuffed animals.
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# ? Feb 25, 2020 01:08 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:57 |
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kaosdrachen posted:One of the more frustrating things about Magic in Shadowrun, from an in-world academic's perspective, is that it looks like there's potentially a spirit of anything if enough people believe fervently enough in the right circumstances. 'Enough' can potentially be just one person, if they have enough juice.
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# ? Feb 25, 2020 01:28 |