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DeathChicken posted:Although it's worth noting that even Black Ice usually won't launch a pretty good decker back and make blood start exploding out of her ears. That's...special. Night10194 posted:Just how good is the average Runner? Eiger being ex-special forces seems to be a rarity. Are they mostly specially trained? Ex corporate security, career criminals, etc? The average Runner is a moron with a cheap gun who thinks that some time in a gang or the number of reps they do in the gym makes them a badass. But, and this is very important, the average Runner is also dead after two or three jobs at most. People who actually survive, even thrive as a Runner are very rare. They are also universally very loving dangerous people.
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Dec 13, 2017 09:29
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I still had Glory figure heavily into my Very Hard endgame runs, primarily because I was playing a PhysAd, so having a second melee attacker around for focused attacks and the ability to heal the other one was quite invaluable, even if half the job description was "take some hits that would've gone to the MC otherwise". The large amount of medkits and DocWagon kits she brings with her are also very welcome. Dietrich was much more of an odd man out for me - I basically never took him along.
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Dec 13, 2017 09:32
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If the amount of elite corporate security I mowed down is any indicator I must be the most badass thing to come out of Berlin.
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Dec 13, 2017 09:33
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Glory is very nasty with claws - they do decent damage, she's useful as a healer/tank, and she has a free AP Boost move that you don't have to use anything to setup - no having to do a spell, no having to use an item.. She can use it as often as you want to. The downside is unlike a spell you can only use it on her but I think that it stays on her for longer makes up for it. You don't een need her for damage - you just run up, stab a couple times, and knock the person out of cover then have another of your team face shoot them. I rather liked having Glory and Eiger - Glory smashes people out of cover, Eiger snipes them for ridic crits. I tended to use my own runner as Decker for the team so then you'd have the old man throwing fireballs and eing your backup healier. That's a decent bread and butter team for almost anything.
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Dec 13, 2017 10:12
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The Lone Badger posted:IIRC the claws pop people out of cover. Glory runs up to someone and scratches them, then a teammate unloads with an AR. Not necessary, as the AR will pop them out of cover without having somebody committing a suicidal charge forward. I love how they tried to "balance" AR's by slightly (very very slightly) reducing the damage, then they hosed up by giving Full-Auto innate flush. Talk about one step forward and then one step sideways off a bridge.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:10
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Everything feels like a pea shooter next to rifles, even a nice grenade launcher.
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Dec 13, 2017 12:13
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Everything feels like a pea shooter next to rifles, even a nice grenade launcher. Jeff Cooper posted:Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 12:26
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Stroth posted:Yeah, like I said: That's corprate black site level poo poo. Most Black IC will give you a minor concussion at the worst. Programs nasty enough to immediately just blow your brains out are the kind of thing you expect to see guarding nuclear launch codes or Aztechnology blood rituals. In other words, we're super dangerous, right? Okay, brains fried by security is... creepy. And scary.
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Dec 13, 2017 13:07
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Blademaster_Aio posted:In other words, we're super dangerous, right? As a veteran runner who has some connections to the point where you hooked up with Monika and her team after having run with her before? Extremely dangerous. wedgekree posted:Glory is very nasty with claws - they do decent damage, she's useful as a healer/tank, and she has a free AP Boost move that you don't have to use anything to setup - no having to do a spell, no having to use an item.. She can use it as often as you want to. The downside is unlike a spell you can only use it on her but I think that it stays on her for longer makes up for it. You don't een need her for damage - you just run up, stab a couple times, and knock the person out of cover then have another of your team face shoot them. This. I rather liked using Glory, her Adrenal Pump made it easier for her to blitz towards enemies, and after she knocked them out of cover or made them bleed with her razors, either Eiger or my PC would crit them like crazy with either her sniper rifle or my own assault rifle. Sure, she spends a bit more AP to get into stabbing range, but the pump usually gets her to where she needs to go. And I think running up to someone and attacking still only spends 1AP if they're within her movement range? I forget. Yeah, full auto has a flush too, and more often then not put down or at least heavily wound whoever I was targeting with a burst, but Glory was just more efficient for dropping more of them out of cover so I could unload on them, or making them bleed if I didn't have a good follow up shot to put them down. Or she could just blend them herself. She's real good at that.
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Dec 13, 2017 13:21
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As I played a punching troll Adept, I used Glory as a pistoleer, which was okay on Normal at last. Didn't use her too much though. I did find the +3 armour zone Dietrich can put down very useful though. When already behind good cover for the chance of 50% damage it really neutered a lot of potshots.
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Dec 13, 2017 14:05
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Tylana posted:I did find the +3 armour zone Dietrich can put down very useful though. When already behind good cover for the chance of 50% damage it really neutered a lot of potshots. Dietrich's got some good unique buffs. There's one in particular I think Rosa will be finding useful.
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Dec 13, 2017 15:23
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Stroth posted:The average Runner is a moron with a cheap gun who thinks that some time in a gang or the number of reps they do in the gym makes them a badass. So Runners suck, but people who actually make enough of a career out of it to call themselves Shadowrunners are terrifying. That makes sense.
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Dec 13, 2017 15:26
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Blademaster_Aio posted:In other words, we're super dangerous, right? We're pretty dangerous people, yes. And yes, black IC powerful enough to just outright loving murder a decent decker within seconds is really drat scary. Like, "average" black IC (mind you, most systems have NONE of that poo poo; it's technically outright illegal in most jurisdictions) will have effects like knocking your decker out and make him have a killer migraine for a day or two, with perhaps some projectile vomiting thrown in at some point. It's not until the really powerful stuff that you get permanent damage. Your decker just falling over dead in short order means you just tried to access something that's more heavily guarded than most high-security military mainframes. And all the implications that come with it. Like for example that whoever's owning the system you just tried to break into has a lot of money, resources and connections and little hesitation to murder anyone getting too close to whatever is inside there. Magni fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 16:48
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Blademaster_Aio posted:In other words, we're super dangerous, right? We just killed seven armed opponents who had magical backup without the slightest difficulty.
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Dec 13, 2017 17:43
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And one of your guys was off fiddling with the alarms/holding cover.
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Dec 13, 2017 17:57
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I had wanted to start a charisma based run, and after all this discussion I simply must keep count of how many people I end up having to kill.
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Dec 13, 2017 18:03
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Charisma run is doable as a shaman but shamans are... eh...
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Dec 13, 2017 18:04
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I'm thinking about concentrating on just Conjuring and leaving karma for something offensive.
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Dec 13, 2017 18:11
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:I'm thinking about concentrating on just Conjuring and leaving karma for something offensive. Think about investing the 6 points to get a totem since they are pretty useful buffs to have if you already have the Charisma anyhow even if you don't want to summon.
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Dec 13, 2017 20:02
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I'm surprised so many people in this thread seem down on Dietrich. He was always one of the best characters to bring along for me, because his support skills are top notch - Haste is always handy and Heal Wounds is invaluable. You can also give him an extra spell to help give him a little extra damage as a filler (either a single-target damage spell like Flamethrower or an AoE attack both work pretty well) for those times when you don't particularly need a buff right this instant. Glory just always seemed kinda pointless to me. Her primary purpose as a medic makes logical sense from a story perspective, but gameplay wise it's pretty meh, at least on Normal. Medikits and Trauma Kits are quite common, Heal Wounds is free, and there's post-battle healing of your most recent wound, so a dedicated medic with iffy offense just doesn't seem to be that valuable to me. And I always struggled to find a use for melee attacks that wouldn't result in Glory slashing one guy and being completely exposed to his three buddies.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:41
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Eiger was the odd one out on my team. Dietrich and Glory were my murder duo.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:44
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I would've loved to bring all three of them, but I needed a decker on a lot of runs. And although the eventual team decker tends to be not good, I still needed him to do his thing, so had to bring him. Dietrich tended to be the guy left out in that case most of the time unfortunately. Still used him as much as I could, and he was pretty good when I did bring him out. drat max 4 member team limit...
GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 00:49
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MagusofStars posted:I'm surprised so many people in this thread seem down on Dietrich. He was always one of the best characters to bring along for me, because his support skills are top notch - Haste is always handy and Heal Wounds is invaluable. You can also give him an extra spell to help give him a little extra damage as a filler (either a single-target damage spell like Flamethrower or an AoE attack both work pretty well) for those times when you don't particularly need a buff right this instant. Glory had a fairly high Body stat so she could take hits, and the main trick was that she could take guys out of cover, possibly multiple enemies, exposing them to a lot of high-damage crits. Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Everything feels like a pea shooter next to rifles, even a nice grenade launcher. I actually really liked the SMGs in Hong Kong, because the passive Totems made them pretty brutal if you could find a way to get armor strip or high crit chance. In the Shadows of Hong Kong campaign, my SMG-wielding Street Sam/Face bought an Ingram Supermach first thing and could just erase a high-level enemy in a single turn guaranteed, more if you had someone helping her strip armor.
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Dec 14, 2017 00:53
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MagusofStars posted:
It's even better when she rushes forward to slash someone and misses.....3 times in a row. Not an uncommon thing for her sadly  MJ12 posted:Glory had a fairly high Body stat so she could take hits, and the main trick was that she could take guys out of cover, possibly multiple enemies, exposing them to a lot of high-damage crits. uh...her body ain't THAT high. Out of cover she MIGHT be able to take one extra hit (with my luck would be a 20+ damage crit). When you're out of cover having an extra 10 or 20 hitpoints is not as great as an advantage as you're making it out to be. Plus she doesn't get any movement bonuses, so she might be able to pop 2 people out of cover depending on how close they are to each other (and likely she would miss those hits anyways, making it all for nothing). mauman fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 01:25
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:I had wanted to start a charisma based run, and after all this discussion I simply must keep count of how many people I end up having to kill. I played a charisma and decking run, and tried to talk people down when the opportunity presented itself. By the end of the game, over 300 people (well, and other things, game counts 'em the same) were dead by his hand. If Monika calls someone in for a job, they're going to be really good at killing people.
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Dec 14, 2017 01:25
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mauman posted:uh...her body ain't THAT high. Out of cover she MIGHT be able to take one extra hit (with my luck would be a 20+ damage crit). When you're out of cover having an extra 10 or 20 hitpoints is not as great as an advantage as you're making it out to be. Plus she doesn't get any movement bonuses, so she might be able to pop 2 people out of cover depending on how close they are to each other (and likely she would miss those hits anyways, making it all for nothing).
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Dec 14, 2017 01:51
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mauman posted:It's even better when she rushes forward to slash someone and misses.....3 times in a row. Not an uncommon thing for her sadly I never had that problem with her missing so much. Was this a thing that was corrected in Director's Cut or did I just have better RNG than you? With regards to her being in the open to melee people and eating crits because of it, in my experience she usually could find some cover next to a guy before opening them up, because most of the pieces of cover in this game aren't just one tile long, they're rectangular and you can run in next to your target before you slash. Plus melee attacks drain your target's AP (or was that just a thing they added in HK?), so you'd pop a guy out of cover and stun them as well, possibly bleeding them too, which usually led to great follow ups and crits from your gun guys or other high damage types for either this turn or the next. It's how it usually worked for me, I loved bringing Glory along.
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Dec 14, 2017 01:52
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Xander77 posted:The main problem with Glory (and melee characters in general, though I never really played any) is that the game has a limited number of actions per combat turn, rather than a limited number of action points. So you can't order Glory to run to a specific point next to an enemy and attack from there - you either waste two separate actions or you rely on her AI. And I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't even make any tactical considerations when attacking in melee, merely plotting the quickest route to the target. You're wrong on one count: it is in fact possible to move and attack with a single AP with Strength-based weapons. Yes, even Dietrich's thrown knives. You can't decide where you land and you can't circle strafe yourself into an advantageous position so it's a toss-up whether you end up in a position with cover or not but move + attack on one AP is, in fact, how the game works. The problem, and why you're still right about Glory overall even so, is something I will wait until we're deeper into the game before I start opining. I love the latter two SR games to death and could talk about them for a long time but I will wait until such a time as it is appropriate to really dig deep into my experiences with the numbers. e: oh, that is in fact what you meant. My bad!
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Dec 14, 2017 01:55
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GhostStalker posted:I never had that problem with her missing so much. Was this a thing that was corrected in Director's Cut or did I just have better RNG than you? Well, I generally play hard and very hard. I've made my opinion known that I think that Glory works fine...on normal only. I think she's shite on anything above that due to her jack of all trades nature. I consider her the weakest character as she's the least focused in what she's supposed to be doing. Yes this includes the decker, who's hilariously enough (in the DC version) the MOST competent at what he's supposed to be doing out of all the companions. Also, melee attacks don't always drain ap. It's confusing how that system works. mauman fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 02:03
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Night10194 posted:So Runners suck, but people who actually make enough of a career out of it to call themselves Shadowrunners are terrifying. That makes sense. Exactly. You could think of it as being like the anthropic fallacy. The majority of ‘Runners are garbage. The majority of ‘Runners are also already dead. When it comes to ones that are still alive...
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Dec 14, 2017 02:09
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Stroth posted:Programs nasty enough to immediately just blow your brains out are the kind of thing you expect to see guarding nuclear launch codes or Aztechnology blood rituals. Uh, not knowing where this game is going, would it be spoilerly to ask about Aztechnology blood rituals? I only know some basics about the world, like that it used to be our world but then magic came back, hence the trolls and orcs? So what's up with the Aztecs (if it's not going to spoil anything)?
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Dec 14, 2017 03:11
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KillingPablo posted:Uh, not knowing where this game is going, would it be spoilerly to ask about Aztechnology blood rituals? I only know some basics about the world, like that it used to be our world but then magic came back, hence the trolls and orcs? So what's up with the Aztecs (if it's not going to spoil anything)? The problem being with questions like these, is that it would actually be spoilery just to say whether or not it's spoilery 
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Dec 14, 2017 03:15
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In a setting with a lot of douchy and evil megacorps, the Aztechs are basically *really* evil fucks. Pretty much a robe wearing evil wizard cult granted corporation status
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Dec 14, 2017 03:20
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As a TTRPG guy, it is a real shame Shadowrun's system is kind of infamous for sucking, because the setting sounds like fun.
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Dec 14, 2017 03:21
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KillingPablo posted:Uh, not knowing where this game is going, would it be spoilerly to ask about Aztechnology blood rituals? I only know some basics about the world, like that it used to be our world but then magic came back, hence the trolls and orcs? So what's up with the Aztecs (if it's not going to spoil anything)? The only thing the authors knew about the historical Aztecs is that they practiced blood sacrifice, so now all of Mexico is the domain of a corporation that's also a neo-Aztec cult that kills people for magic power.
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Dec 14, 2017 04:10
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Xander77 posted:The main problem with Glory (and melee characters in general, though I never really played any) is that the game has a limited number of actions per combat turn, rather than a limited number of action points. So you can't order Glory to run to a specific point next to an enemy and attack from there - you either waste two separate actions or you rely on her AI. And I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't even make any tactical considerations when attacking in melee, merely plotting the quickest route to the target.
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Dec 14, 2017 05:19
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Night10194 posted:As a TTRPG guy, it is a real shame Shadowrun's system is kind of infamous for sucking, because the setting sounds like fun. Agreed. I really want to get back to the setting but nobody in the group I'm with currently is familiar with the system. I've played a campaign in SR3e and a little bit of SR4e but haven't touched it in years and I don't have the time and inclination to GM.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:28
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GunnerJ posted:The only thing the authors knew about the historical Aztecs is that they practiced blood sacrifice, so now all of Mexico is the domain of a corporation that's also a neo-Aztec cult that kills people for magic power. All the stuff about Aztec culture is manufactured by the corporation as an excuse. (Aztechnology is also a media giant so they've been reasonably successful at this)
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Dec 14, 2017 06:43
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All Megacorps are media giants, Horizon just gets the most press for it because that's their specialty, the same way Ares' specialty is firearms and Saeder-Krupp's is heavy industry -- but both have bio-science divisions.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:54
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Aztechnology isn't a media giant (wellwiegieman says they are, but I mean relative to other megas), so much as being really really good at PR and media spin. Outside of the shadows and the very upper echelons of society, Aztechnology is almost universally beloved and have a presence in just about every home. They make a huge portion of the world's food and a lot of your everyday consumer products, and they have the majority stake in a ton of A and AA rated corporations as well. There's a whole lot of people who work for the Big A and don't even know it. Horizon is a bit of an interesting case in that they are easily the smallest of the AAA corps, and most of their business really is in media and PR. In fact, they're smaller than a lot of AA corps, a fact that has many AAs that have been jockeying for their own seat on the Corporate Court for decades super pissed off. What exactly Horizon knows, said, or did to get their seat is a big ol' mystery. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 07:16
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