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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

I was lucky enough to see this film on Tuesday. If you like the works of Paul Thomas Anderson, or any well-written, magnificently executed character-driven film, then you should see this as soon as you can.

Phantom Thread ("PT") has quite a lot in common with The Master - both are set in the post-war period, both are full of exquisite period detail (PT even more so than the Master), both have a charismatic male lead and a towering central performance, extremely strong supporting female roles, and engage with the difficulty that some men have with connection and relating. In other areas, however, they differ widely.

PT is set in London of the 50s, before the wave of modernity that was the 60s had crashed on its shores. Daniel Day-Lewis, in what is probably his final role, plays Reynolds Woodcock, one of the finest fashion designers of his day. He makes dresses for countesses and princesses - the Establishment - with pearl, lace, silk etc. When a new woman enters his life, things start to change in ways which to me at least were unexpected. Needless to say, DDL is magnificent, and will certainly get an Oscar nomination if not a win.

(Here is a fascinating interview with DDL about giving up acting, and the film
https://www.wmagazine.com/story/exc...-phantom-thread )

The acting is top-notch across the board: Vicky Krieps (who will probably get a nomination for female lead playing Alma) and Lesley Manville (as Woodcock's sister Cyril - supporting nomination) are extremely good, and match DDL's intensity in a way which is remarkable (see also Paul Dano in There Will Be Blood, but not Leonardo Di Caprio in Gangs of New York). Much is done through subtle gesture, the raised eyebrow, small movements and expressions, which nonetheless convey a great deal. It's an acting and directing masterclass all round.

PTA is the uncredited cinematographer, with the film being shot in 35mm. There is a beautiful grain and warmth to it which really suits the subject matter of exquisite attention to detail and craftsmanship in making haute couture dresses. As with every other technical aspect, the photography is immaculate.

Mark Bridges is my tip to win the Oscar for costume designer.

I am not going to dwell much on the story until others have seen it, but there is quite a lot to talk about in the shifting dynamics and relationships between Alma, Reynolds and Cyril, and this is really where the meat of the film is. PTA details these relationships with complexity, subtlety and nuance, and leaves a lot ambiguous and open to interpretation, which makes it satisfying to discuss. The story, such as it is (if there is any criticism it's perhaps that the story is a bit thin) takes a couple of unexpected and rewarding turns.

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Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Did cool dude Jonny Greenwood do a good soundtrack again? That's what's important about this thing.

Even though Phantom Thread just sounds like PTA doing There Will Be Blood again, I'm looking forward to it, especially after the disappointing and pointless Inherent Vice.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Electronico6 posted:

Did cool dude Jonny Greenwood do a good soundtrack again? That's what's important about this thing.

Even though Phantom Thread just sounds like PTA doing There Will Be Blood again, I'm looking forward to it, especially after the disappointing and pointless Inherent Vice.

He did do a good soundtrack again. It's very different from TWBB, especially in tone and setting. That said, there a similarity with the very driven monomaniacal central character. He's not as rage- and hate-filled though.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010



Electronico6 posted:

Did cool dude Jonny Greenwood do a good soundtrack again? That's what's important about this thing.

https://twitter.com/JnnyG/status/923641344257658881

That is already a yes if you ask me.

Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at Dec 7, 2017 around 11:32

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



therattle posted:

He did do a good soundtrack again. It's very different from TWBB, especially in tone and setting. That said, there a similarity with the very driven monomaniacal central character. He's not as rage- and hate-filled though.

I can see it, but if you cut the "extremely strong supporting female roles" from your description, you just described TWBB. I don't think it's not without purpose that DDL is back, and that Thread is pealing away the bigger cast dynamics of The Master/Inherent Vice, and just focusing one one Man and his insane issues. It looks like PTA is revisiting both himself and the Plainview, it's been 10 years after all, time to see what changed and what has grown since then. I guess I'm sounding more negative than it is.

I'm just really annoyed that it's only opening in limited release in loving February where I'm living.



Don't know what any of that means, but hell, I'm into it.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Electronico6 posted:

I can see it, but if you cut the "extremely strong supporting female roles" from your description, you just described TWBB. I don't think it's not without purpose that DDL is back, and that Thread is pealing away the bigger cast dynamics of The Master/Inherent Vice, and just focusing one one Man and his insane issues. It looks like PTA is revisiting both himself and the Plainview, it's been 10 years after all, time to see what changed and what has grown since then. I guess I'm sounding more negative than it is.

I'm just really annoyed that it's only opening in limited release in loving February where I'm living.


Don't know what any of that means, but hell, I'm into it.

It's not TWBB in that this is much more of a two-hander with Vicky Kreis's character as second lead. Therefore it's more about their relationship, with the added dynamic of his sister too.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...


therattle posted:

PT is set in London of the 50s, before the wave of modernity that was the 60s had crashed on its shores. Daniel Day-Lewis, in what is probably his final role, plays Reynolds Woodcock, one of the finest fashion designers of his day.
Real great name DDL came up with

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat


Thanks! I enjoyed that.

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004


Electronico6 posted:

I can see it, but if you cut the "extremely strong supporting female roles" from your description, you just described TWBB. I don't think it's not without purpose that DDL is back, and that Thread is pealing away the bigger cast dynamics of The Master/Inherent Vice, and just focusing one one Man and his insane issues. It looks like PTA is revisiting both himself and the Plainview, it's been 10 years after all, time to see what changed and what has grown since then. I guess I'm sounding more negative than it is.

I'm just really annoyed that it's only opening in limited release in loving February where I'm living.


Don't know what any of that means, but hell, I'm into it.

TWBB was a character-driven piece and Plainview is extremely different from Woodcock. As a result, the two films have completely different tones.

I feel like, much like TWBB, this will be considered the film of the decade in a few years.

zer0spunk
Nov 6, 2000

devil never even lived


I thought this sucked hard.

Here be spoilers:

DDL is great at playing a jerk. The production design was nice, I guess? Storywise his character is a real rear end in a top hat, the mom thing is creepy af, and the entire alma poisoning thing felt like something out of a parody movie. "I'm being mean to you! blarghyty blargh!" said Reynolds Woodcock *cut to alma picking poison shrooms*. "Did you delete the real housewives of atlanta off my dvr you bitch??" mused Reynolds *smash cut to alma cooking up some poison tacos*. "I don't feel like taking out the trash today woman!" bellowed woodcock *star wipe to alma rubbing poison mushrooms into his face*

Also his dresses were aight. I never got the sense that he was this extraordinary designer at all even if the exposition tried super hard. So it felt like this dude was just an rear end in a top hat way out of proportion to his actual ego/talent.


There was zero need to go see this in 70mm btw, and that's from someone that will travel an hour for a large print screening where possible. Why was this blown up from a 35mm print? Other than.."cuz"?

This movie really let me down...It's on the Magnolia side of the PTA scale, far far from the Boogie Nights/TWBB upper echelons. I want it to go wide so people see it cuz I've only read glowing reviews and it makes me think I saw a different movie than every critic.

And finally, can you eat your toast a little loving quieter?!??

tldr: It's boring as poo poo, the most egregious of all cinema sins.

zer0spunk fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2018 around 15:40

Solar Tornado
Aug 9, 2016


Phanton thread, phantom posts

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


IT’S PERFECT

Nroo
Dec 31, 2007



Very perverted. I loved it

Troy Queef
Jan 12, 2013

I was 12 when I made love for the first time, in Tropea, with a Roman girl who was 17 years old.




It was really good looking, DDL went out on a high but was Alma supposed to be a foreigner or otherwise what the gently caress accent was Vicky Kreps supposed to have

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


The actress is from Luxembourg and I assumed (not knowing who she was when I saw it) that she was an immigrant, probably as a child or young teenager.

Nroo
Dec 31, 2007



I assumed it had something to do with The War.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Nroo posted:

I assumed it had something to do with The War.

Yes, there was a bit of fuss about that. People moved around a bit as a result.

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007



Soiled Meat

What a strange and beautiful film. It was PTA's slowest, I thought, and I did get a bit bored at times. But trying to decipher the characters was great, and the ending really pleased me. However, I didn't quite get it. I don't know what the theme was.

Nitevision
Oct 5, 2004

Your Friendly FYAD Helper
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blue squares posted:

What a strange and beautiful film. It was PTA's slowest, I thought, and I did get a bit bored at times. But trying to decipher the characters was great, and the ending really pleased me. However, I didn't quite get it. I don't know what the theme was.

Idk there's a lot to grab hold of but what I walked away with was Reynolds's obsession with routine and stricture is an expression of profound fear of death, and Alma discovers that the only way to draw the human out of his calcified existence is to force a confrontation with his mortality. He realizes this too and it's the foundation for their lasting love. At the end, Alma talks about believing in the persistence of their love through multiple lives, which completes an arc of death-fearing homeostasis -> embracing a cycle of life and death. Remember that when Reynolds got bored of his other girlfriends, he had Cyril just send them off; he never confronted or reckoned with the ends of those relationships, either. But we see Reynolds and Alma overcome multiple breakdowns of their relationship and still take it up again. Actual love dies but resurrects.

I'm enamored with PTA's really restrained use of surreal imagery between this and The Master.

Flambeau
Aug 5, 2015


Plaster Town Cop

I was engaged the whole time, never got bored at all. However, I didn't find the characters so much 'ambiguous and indecipherable' as just unevenly developed. One dude I saw it with is a huge PTA fan and came out underwhelmed.
The whole scene with Alma's first experience in Woodcock's studio was really fantastic. Also, I need to get some magenta socks.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Flambeau posted:

I was engaged the whole time, never got bored at all. However, I didn't find the characters so much 'ambiguous and indecipherable' as just unevenly developed. One dude I saw it with is a huge PTA fan and came out underwhelmed.
The whole scene with Alma's first experience in Woodcock's studio was really fantastic. Also, I need to get some magenta socks.

You’ll need to get them from the ecclesiastical shop in Rome that supplies them to cardinals.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

What a weird goddamn movie.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


TychoCelchuuu posted:

What a weird goddamn movie.

Please continue.

homer
Jan 4, 2001



I saw this yesterday and loved it. It's probably my favorite movie of 2017 although PTA is my favorite director so I'm heavily biased. I want to see it again already.

TychoCelchuuu posted:

What a weird goddamn movie.

When it ended the first comment I heard from somebody sitting up a few rows was "That was a weird movie". Which I'll take as a step up from when I saw The Master and the first thing I heard was "Well that was a waste of time".

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Please continue.
I don't know, I'm still thinking about it. But, I think basically what's weird is how little movie there is. This is probably the most straightforward movie I've seen in years, not in the sense of being didactic but in the sense of not having a single extraneous frame and also not really setting out to do more than, like, one thing. It's a movie that's laser focused on a tiny point.

So, I mostly agree with Electronico6's comment about how the movie is "pealing away the bigger cast dynamics of The Master/Inherent Vice, and just focusing one one Man and his insane issues," although I would've spelled "peeling" differently. I guess it's weird because even the sparest Anderson films before this one had a fair amount of crazy stuff going on. I suppose the New Year's party in this movie is almost that, although I think the movie probably picked the sparest possible way to have presented a bonkers gala with people riding giant fake animals through a massive costume ball covered in balloons.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Is the trailer a good representation of the total package? Because as much as I fuckin' love PTA, that trailer bored me to absolute tears.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...


precision posted:

Is the trailer a good representation of the total package? Because as much as I fuckin' love PTA, that trailer bored me to absolute tears.
TychoCelchuuu has a point when he talks about this sparse narrative being spread across 130 minutes, but it's something you only really realize once the credits roll and the lights come up. Meanwhile, I spent the first half reveling in the finery and the performances, but then the second half happens, and you become invested in the characters and the relationship drama in ways you're not expecting. The movie may start out with what you might characterize as stodginess, but I think the film knows when to 'flip the switch', so to speak.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

precision posted:

Is the trailer a good representation of the total package? Because as much as I fuckin' love PTA, that trailer bored me to absolute tears.
I'd say I'd definitely put it on a list of "movies that can potentially bore you if you're able to get bored by movies," but it's just on the edge - like, basically any "potentially boring" movie is going to be more boring than this movie. You know yourself better than any of us, but I'd say if you often find yourself getting bored by fancy pants movies, this would be a bit of a risk. On the other hand, there are worse ways to spend your time than being a bit bored, right?

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Yeah I mean, I'm definitely planning on seeing it, but my expectations aren't super high. It does look absolutely gorgeous tho.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...


To your point, I'd be surprised if you came away from the movie thinking, "That was exactly what I expected."

MorgaineDax
Nov 29, 2004

Storm On The Sea Of Galilee, it's called, and he's in it. Old Rembrandt, he's in the painting. He's in there, right in the middle of the storm, looking straight at you. But... you can't see him. And the reason you can't see him is because the painting has been stolen.


Wedge Regret

homer posted:

When it ended the first comment I heard from somebody sitting up a few rows was "That was a weird movie". Which I'll take as a step up from when I saw The Master and the first thing I heard was "Well that was a waste of time".

Better than when I saw The Master and a senior citizen stood up about 45 minutes in and and angrily and loudly said, "I've stood this as long as I could, but this movie is just terrible. I'll see you at home!" and stormed out without his wife.

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007



Soiled Meat

MorgaineDax posted:

Better than when I saw The Master and a senior citizen stood up about 45 minutes in and and angrily and loudly said, "I've stood this as long as I could, but this movie is just terrible. I'll see you at home!" and stormed out without his wife.

It was Hubbard

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

https://twitter.com/evepeyser/status/955475918377627648

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002

Don't fuckle with Shuckle(s)

Like that other Shuckle, but different.


Just got out of this movie and I loving loved it. It felt incredibly well edited and almost too fast while simultaneously being the slowest movie I’ve seen in a while. The dynamic and relationships between the main 3 was utterly fantastic and seeing Alma slowly find a place in his life was just astounding. The first poisoning scene was just harrowing and thought the movie was taking an entirely different direction (but you can see the pieces for this earlier in the movie) then you get the final scene in the kitchen where it all “clicks” into place and holy poo poo I was impressed.

I genuinely loved it. DDL was incredible as always.

publishko
Feb 16, 2014


Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Just got out of this movie and I loving loved it. It felt incredibly well edited and almost too fast while simultaneously being the slowest movie I’ve seen in a while. The dynamic and relationships between the main 3 was utterly fantastic and seeing Alma slowly find a place in his life was just astounding. The first poisoning scene was just harrowing and thought the movie was taking an entirely different direction (but you can see the pieces for this earlier in the movie) then you get the final scene in the kitchen where it all “clicks” into place and holy poo poo I was impressed.

I genuinely loved it. DDL was incredible as always.

"Kiss me, darling, before I'm sick" was the best part of the movie. that's precisely where i said "what the gently caress" to myself

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


I had a legitimate swell of goodfeel emotions when he said that.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.


publishko posted:

"Kiss me, darling, before I'm sick" was the best part of the movie. that's precisely where i said "what the gently caress" to myself

I had a very similar reaction to that too, it left me puzzled for a little bit after the movie until my wife and I could talk through it. I was fairly convinced that Woodcock was going to die in the first poisoning scene once his mother showed up. I'm glad it didn't go that route. I also really like Cyril's reaction after he falls over and ruins the wedding dress. When the two ladies are describing what happened, she couldn't comprehend that Reynolds was the one who did it. Everything was so orderly all the time that what was being described simply couldn't have happened.

Overall I really liked it, everyone is great in it. I didn't really notice it at first, but the music almost never stops through the whole movie. I would say that if you have zero interest in fashion, it probably will be a very boring movie. There are a lot of scenes of rolling out fabric, dresses being examined or paraded around, or someone just making a dress. I thought the photography was great too, a very beautiful movie.

Edit: Woodcock early on says he's a confirmed bachelor, and I could have sworn that was code for gay, but apparently not.

Bird in a Blender fucked around with this message at Jan 23, 2018 around 13:19

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Bird in a Blender posted:

Edit: Woodcock early on says he's a confirmed bachelor, and I could have sworn that was code for gay, but apparently not.

It was, and I wouldn't be surprised if Woodcock was meant to scan bisexual.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Confirmed bachelor doesn't just mean gay, but it definitely does sometimes mean gay. I find it hard to know whether we're supposed to think of Woodcock as queer at all because I don't really know enough about fashion and dress making and so on to say anything informed on the topic.

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Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.


Ah that could be. Now that I think about it, he interacts with almost no other men in the entire movie. All I can think of is the doctor.

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