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life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007



Wafflecopper posted:

You also see the Mary Sue protagonist jump over the enemy shield wall and solo their entire back line

Mu Zeta posted:

They haven't done anything like that in season 2. He also gets taken down a few pegs and isn't all-powerful anymore.

Alfred pretty much keeps him in line and the books themselves even have Uhtred explaining sometimes why he was able to win. When he fights Ubba, for example, the only thing that saves his rear end is Ubba slipping in some bloody mud. He does have a reputation that he deliberately cultivates, and heís probably a lot better fighter than many of the Danes or the other Saxons, but he is never portrayed as some perfect dude who can do no wrong. He also suffers greatly for his mistakes.

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Hold The Ashes
Sep 17, 2017


I don't follow the news/announcements of renewed/cancelled calls so I thought up until towards the end of the battle that this might have been the series finale and I loved every single thing about the episode, except for how poor the CGI was in certain shots (which could be related to watching it in 85"). The whole time I was thinking it was/would've been up there with Six Feet Under for best series finale to me with how perfect it felt. I know it's not cool to show anything other than cynicism/pessimism for stuff these days though so I'm sure I'll get someone calling me a filthy swine.

I also think Last Kingdom is completely apples to oranges. I enjoy it but it's more of a comic bookish feel to me. It does have some nice parts where it almost feels like it earned that big climax but then yeah the show does something ridiculous that stops it just short of being satisfying or significant.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
https://i.imgur.com/xhkDqVS.jpg

Goons are trash and a putrid forum culture is the reason why nobody new registers. At best you're 30+ year old failed twitter "comedians" and tolerate this pig because he has the same normie sports hobby as you do.


Hold The Ashes posted:

It does have some nice parts where it almost feels like it earned that big climax but then yeah the show does something ridiculous that stops it just short of being satisfying or significant.

This describes Vikings better than TLK.

Erghh
Sep 24, 2007


Just getting caught up after some irl bullshit. Thought the last episode was them trying to be "artistic" or what have you. It's not bad in and of itself but it's probably not what drew most people into the show originally. An asymmetrical episode can be pretty effective if done well but idk...seems like it just kind of wandered off at the end. I'm guessing it's set-up for some big extravaganza when they come back from break (i.e. Rollo a comin').

Nthing that the shift in how battles are handled is kinda sad. We used to get actual tactics, leadership, strategizing etc but now it's more standard "everyone run around waving your shield like you just don't care" hollywood stuff.


Also I can't help but notice that Ivar is pretty much dressed like The Kurgan from the original Highlander film in his 80s punk "disguise."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjdgIl7hrtQ#t=15s

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

I'm here


Hold The Ashes posted:

I don't follow the news/announcements of renewed/cancelled calls so I thought up until towards the end of the battle that this might have been the series finale and I loved every single thing about the episode, except for how poor the CGI was in certain shots (which could be related to watching it in 85"). The whole time I was thinking it was/would've been up there with Six Feet Under for best series finale to me with how perfect it felt. I know it's not cool to show anything other than cynicism/pessimism for stuff these days though so I'm sure I'll get someone calling me a filthy swine.

I also think Last Kingdom is completely apples to oranges. I enjoy it but it's more of a comic bookish feel to me. It does have some nice parts where it almost feels like it earned that big climax but then yeah the show does something ridiculous that stops it just short of being satisfying or significant.

Friend, I'm glad that Vikings still makes you happy.

SeaWolf
Mar 7, 2008


I'm late to this party, though I've been watching Vikings from the beginning. I just had to find out if anyone else was as "wtff is going on here" as I am...
Seriously, is ANYONE on the production team looking at what Hirst is writing and saying uhhhh hold on there a sec bud? I can be a stickler for history but I was pretty OK with the liberties they took in the first few seasons.

But really they've Amtrak'd this show with the time skipping and disorganized melee and artsy fartsying around. It's become full on GoT to my mind, and that show lost me a long time ago. Has GoT become the new standard for depicting a medieval world because they're pulling some of the same poo poo in Knightfall too and it's garbage. The actual history is intensely more fascinating than what's being fictioned up, even if that's from the semi-mythic sagas.

Floki's still cool though, that's the only part of this season that's been remotely interesting and I'm sad to see it's falling apart for him. But if all we're going to get out of that in the second half is the 5 minutes interspersed in each episode I'll sadly have to pass. Cause season 6 I hear they're moving to Kievan Rus.

Such a let down. They should have completely cut out the Kattegat storyline last season and focused on the heathen army. Then we could avoid this pointless civil war and focused on Bjorn raiding the Mediterranean, bring back Rollo and go conquer Italy and Floki colonizing Iceland.
Then we can go back to Alfred who shouldn't be this puny 14 year old king, let him properly knock the Danelaw teeth in and THEN we can go to the volga vikings! And somewhere in there Harald can go unite Norway.

Argh!!

life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007



SeaWolf posted:

I'm late to this party, though I've been watching Vikings from the beginning. I just had to find out if anyone else was as "wtff is going on here" as I am...
Seriously, is ANYONE on the production team looking at what Hirst is writing and saying uhhhh hold on there a sec bud? I can be a stickler for history but I was pretty OK with the liberties they took in the first few seasons.

But really they've Amtrak'd this show with the time skipping and disorganized melee and artsy fartsying around. It's become full on GoT to my mind, and that show lost me a long time ago. Has GoT become the new standard for depicting a medieval world because they're pulling some of the same poo poo in Knightfall too and it's garbage. The actual history is intensely more fascinating than what's being fictioned up, even if that's from the semi-mythic sagas.

Floki's still cool though, that's the only part of this season that's been remotely interesting and I'm sad to see it's falling apart for him. But if all we're going to get out of that in the second half is the 5 minutes interspersed in each episode I'll sadly have to pass. Cause season 6 I hear they're moving to Kievan Rus.

Such a let down. They should have completely cut out the Kattegat storyline last season and focused on the heathen army. Then we could avoid this pointless civil war and focused on Bjorn raiding the Mediterranean, bring back Rollo and go conquer Italy and Floki colonizing Iceland.
Then we can go back to Alfred who shouldn't be this puny 14 year old king, let him properly knock the Danelaw teeth in and THEN we can go to the volga vikings! And somewhere in there Harald can go unite Norway.

Argh!!

Everything you said I agree with.

They led up to a huge moment in English history, and kept interest by portraying the Saxons and Northumbrians. Then, instead of giving us the payoff they led us to believe was going to happen, they give us a civil war for a whole half a loving season and never return to England the entire time. Not even a shadow of a mention of going back there, just Ivar bitching and moaning about Lagertha this and Lagertha that.

I mean, itís still entertaining enough, but when it goes off on tangents, it actually follows them exclusively after awhile and forgets the main plot it seems. Then some tangents donít get enough love, like Flokiís.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

I don't find it entertaining anymore because I'm constantly reminded that it used to be good. I think I'll record the next half season but hold off on watching until I see what kind of feedback it gets.

Fader Movitz
Sep 25, 2012

Snus, snaps och saltlakrits

I agree with most of what's been said. lost interest in the show when they abandoned all the cool plots to go back to do Kattegatt civil war 3. What a waste of the mediterranian and the English plots.

life is killing me
Oct 28, 2007



I can only imagine that while Hirst is surely partly to blame for the poo poo this show has been dipped into, maybe we can also blame producers for an insistence on keeping to some bullshit plot line they may have felt was what audiences wanted to see.

I donít know. gently caress. Iím tired of mainstream network police procedurals and drivel like Scandal and all that, so Iím disappointed that a show that still has such potential and a lot of material from which to draw, keeps giving us inter-Viking drama and plot lines revolving around aspirations to the throne of Kattegat. Itís like they are teasing us with compelling plots that they never unravel. What I wanted was Vikings wrecking poo poo. What I ended up getting after becoming invested in the show was what amounts to a scripted The Real World: Vikings. Maybe Iím just harder to please than the masses who are perfectly happy with Ancient Aliens and Swamp People

unlawfulsoup
May 12, 2001

Welcome home boys!

The show simply has lost focus, which to be honest isn't really surprising when you phase out your main protagonist and sort of soft reboot inside the series. I still like some of the characters like Lagertha and Bjorn, but they are sort of just plodding along. The Bishop felt like a dopey reimagining of Aethelstan, since I don't know, Vikings need Breton priests as foils or something. Ivar and the preppie sons really just get on my nerves at this point, it is hard to really say more than that.

There are moments where things are still engaging, but by en large it is a mess. The pseudo-mysticism stuff has been ramped to 11 and it is bordering a little on Walking Dead battle syndrome. "Epic" battles happen but they don't feel weighty because we just sort of plod to another one where whatever group has magic raised a new force that is convenient to the plot. While I am aware that the show loosely follows the Sagas, it would be better to slow things down to add weight to events rather than sort of awkwardly fast forward to where they eventually want to be. The Floki Iceland thing is another weird extension of the show. Like it isn't awful but it is so disconnected from the main plots that it barely fits into the show anymore. Like Floki is an interesting character and they really don't want to get rid of him, so he is going to start a commune on an island and conflict.

I do want to bang on about some of the inaccuracies, but this is vikings and there is no point outside of nerding out about it anymore than I have to. I really want to say that the Sami stuff was pretty high cringe for me, with the 120 pound woman being some kind of flail ninja. I don't really know where they can take the show from here that is going to be really convincing. (Just spoiler tagging for the few people not aware of the history...) The logical endpoint is King Alfred beating the Great Heathen Army, since the whole B plot is sort of leading to that. It is just getting harder to care about that anymore.

unlawfulsoup fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2018 around 14:27

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011





unlawfulsoup posted:

I don't really know where they can take the show from here that is going to be really convincing. (Just spoiler tagging for the few people not aware of the history...) The logical endpoint is King Alfred beating the Great Heathen Army, since the whole B plot is sort of leading to that.

I will be really impressed if they manage to get to the battle of Stamford Bridge.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

I'm here


Did the Astrid/Bjorn hookup ever lead to anything that I'm just not remembering or is that yet another dropped storyline in this show?

Dongattack
Dec 20, 2006

I wish I could be a simpleton.


Viridiant posted:

Did the Astrid/Bjorn hookup ever lead to anything that I'm just not remembering or is that yet another dropped storyline in this show?

That storyline is DEAD

And it didn't go anywhere no, much like BjÝrns adventures in the Mediterranean

Vakal
May 11, 2008



CubanMissile posted:

Bee death was the only time I liked and was interested in ∆thelwulf at all.

The next season should just be the ghost of swollen up ∆thelwulf speaking with the Seer.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


CubanMissile posted:

Bee death was the only time I liked and was interested in ∆thelwulf at all.
Same. They need to have like half the cast stung by bees.

unlawfulsoup posted:

The show simply has lost focus, which to be honest isn't really surprising when you phase out your main protagonist and sort of soft reboot inside the series.
I think they really missed an obvious opportunity to sorta keep Ragnar in the story. Not him personally, but they should have made his legacy and how people interpret it the core of the story, and not in the "You're ruining dad's legacy!!!!" kinda way. Ivar should still take up the torch as the vengeful warrior that just wants to see it all burn, while someone like Ubbe could be the farmer-king, and Hvitserk the semi-convert, while Bjorn continues and surpasses his explorations. That would allow far more interesting interactions between the brothers, more friendly-ish rivalry than just jumping straight into civil war, and would also allow a more interesting environment for the story of Alfred to unfold.

unlawfulsoup posted:

Vikings need Breton priests as foils or something.
Breton is not a synonym for British/English, the Bretons are a Celtic people in France.

unlawfulsoup
May 12, 2001

Welcome home boys!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I think they really missed an obvious opportunity to sorta keep Ragnar in the story. Not him personally, but they should have made his legacy and how people interpret it the core of the story, and not in the "You're ruining dad's legacy!!!!" kinda way. Ivar should still take up the torch as the vengeful warrior that just wants to see it all burn, while someone like Ubbe could be the farmer-king, and Hvitserk the semi-convert, while Bjorn continues and surpasses his explorations. That would allow far more interesting interactions between the brothers, more friendly-ish rivalry than just jumping straight into civil war, and would also allow a more interesting environment for the story of Alfred to unfold.

Breton is not a synonym for British/English, the Bretons are a Celtic people in France.

That makes more sense than the current messy stew we have right now. Bjorn and Ivar alone make the most sense to me, they best represent the duality of Ragnar's legacy. You would have an aging Lagertha laying the groundwork for Bjorn, while a tired Floki guides an ever maddening Ivar hell bent on revenge/conquest. By ditching the other brothers/advisors/whatever into the background, things would be a lot more focused. The show would be playing to the better characters.

I am not sure why I put Breton myself, but good catch.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


unlawfulsoup posted:

That makes more sense than the current messy stew we have right now. Bjorn and Ivar alone make the most sense to me, they best represent the duality of Ragnar's legacy. You would have an aging Lagertha laying the groundwork for Bjorn, while a tired Floki guides an ever maddening Ivar hell bent on revenge/conquest. By ditching the other brothers/advisors/whatever into the background, things would be a lot more focused. The show would be playing to the better characters.
Yeah, focusing the story even more, with Ubbe and Hvitserk ending up in Duke Rollo-like roles, would probably be better.

Fartbox
Apr 27, 2017


Not killing the coolest viking woulda been the best thing for the show

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014

white boi alert
I can relate to blacks. When Dave Chappelle made the "white people dance like this" joke. I too felt the stinging whip of racism upon my back.
Put me on ignore

Fartbox posted:

Not killing the coolest viking woulda been the best thing for the show

Its been stated numerous time that they want to move forward through Viking history so it was just a matter of time before Ragnar dies. I miss him, but I think the show could have been very successful without him. They have a really great cast, the issue is with this season's writing. Its like they have no real direction and don't know where they want to go from here.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

panties


I think the direction is clearly Alfred vs. Ivar from here on out. They alluded to it earlier when Alfred beat Ivar in a game of chess.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Dalael posted:

Its been stated numerous time that they want to move forward through Viking history so it was just a matter of time before Ragnar dies. I miss him, but I think the show could have been very successful without him.

Well apparently not. We understand why they killed Ragnar but it was a risky decision, handled badly, and followed up very badly. Apparently Travis Fimmel was more integral to the success and quality of the show than the writers.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

I'm here


I wonder about that. Travis Fimmel's acting in the Warcraft movie wasn't the greatest. I mean that movie had way more problems than that but he wasn't really elevating it with his presence.

Of course I would also believe he didn't give a poo poo about that job beyond the money.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

wormil posted:

Well apparently not. We understand why they killed Ragnar but it was a risky decision, handled badly, and followed up very badly. Apparently Travis Fimmel was more integral to the success and quality of the show than the writers.

What are you basing this on exactly? The show was already headed downhill even before Ragnar died and to me it's a case of the writing going to poo poo, not the absence of one actor

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

I'm here


Honestly considering what Ragnar's death was supposed to bring about, I'm not sure why they needed the whole Ragnar on drugs/disgraced storyline at all. It wasn't fun to watch, Yidu was a disappointing and pointless character, and it made the Great Heathen Army seem more inexplicable immediately following a period of the show where everyone back home seemed to hate him. Lagertha, the only one to respond to him somewhat positively, was the only one NOT to come because she suddenly wants to kill Aslaug who before now she has barely acknowledged as existing much less hating for apparently ruining Kattegat even though with Ragnar gone Aslaug seemed to have transformed it into a large, prosperous trading hub.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Wafflecopper posted:

What are you basing this on exactly? The show was already headed downhill even before Ragnar died and to me it's a case of the writing going to poo poo, not the absence of one actor

The writing got inversely shittier as Travis Fimmel faded from the story. And once he was gone it went into free fall. Maybe I'm giving credit where it isn't due but it's not an unknown phenomena for one or more actors on a show to elevate the writing through their influence. Maybe he had a good relationship with the showrunners. Maybe they changed the writers. You tell me what caused it.

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Hexel
Nov 18, 2011



they could've had ragnar be a force ghost like yoda

i finally got around to watching the mid-season finale and i guess it was alright

at least rollo's back

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