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Can we get a map of the world so far? Any tips for city placement, or is it just "look for the best place and build up, build up, build up"?
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Dec 29, 2017 04:54
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painedforever posted:Can we get a map of the world so far? Any tips for city placement, or is it just "look for the best place and build up, build up, build up"? I'll leave the map for the current turnplayer, but as for city placement, here's what I would say: 1. First thing you should look for: food. Even though several players have spoken about Slavery, I feel as though I cannot emphasize just how important food and the whip are, especially early on. You want your cities to grow quickly, so always settle in range of one or more food resources if you can. If you can't, look to grassland and decide if you can farm up enough of it to be worthwhile. If you're not able to get food in the city, it's probably not worth founding for a while. 2. Key strategic resources should always be grabbed if available. Copper, Horses, and especially Ivory are extremely important in the early game. Ivory enables War Elephants, which are extremely powerful for their era, and to my understanding are usually banned in RB multiplayer games (or the maps are tailored to not have Ivory). 3. Once you have three or four trade routes per city you can pretty much settle wherever because the commerce from trade routes will help the city pay for itself pretty quick. It might not be easy to build if you can't whip the city and/or can't cash-rush, but in the late game Civ 4 it's pretty much always better to have a city than not have a city. Try to get resources in the first ring if you can, but often this will not be possible if you want a well-placed city. If a key resource is outside the city's first ring of cultural influence, you will want to get a source of culture to the city quickly, via Missionary, Monument, or otherwise (being a Creative leader or Inca helps here). Generally I like tightly-packed cities as stated earlier, but there should be a balance with making sure cities aren't cannibalizing each other's tiles to extreme extents. I like to use workers to build a road to my designated city spot to speed the settler's journey, and ideally the new city should have tiles ready to work (of course, this is also often not possible, just try to do it when you can, even if it means swapping tiles away from another city). Forest chops, Slavery, you have lots of tools to help speed the development of a new city and should use them. But as for the placement itself, also look to the terrain and decide what you want the city to be, and maybe adjust the placement slightly with that in mind. Is this a commerce city due to a nearby river? A few commerce resources, especially strong ones like Gold or Gems can also bend a city towards commerce. A few production resources and hills makes a good spot for a production-focused unit-pump city (just make sure it has food). Lots of food? Perhaps you should run a lot of specialists and make it a GP Farm. I like to use the Better UI mod's city placement tool to highlight potential city spots and I use map pins often.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:54
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It's good to know that the reason I'm bad at this game is that I'm not a heartless monster who enslaves thousands of his own people. Being bad at this game It's crazy how powerful slavery is in this game.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:34
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Yeah, Slavery is hands-down the most important civic in the era it comes available in. (Hard to say "best" since as always "it depends," making an army of riflemen appear out of nowhere with Nationalism is sometimes even better, and then there's State Property....) I've watched some of Chris's Deity videos on YT and sometimes he stays in Slavery the entire game to whip out cuirassiers/cavs and win that way, though I usually swap to Caste System and focus on production + specialists and growing cities and win a longer and safer game. My goal is to beat and absorb 1 empire per age if the map allows for it, just because winning before you even get to the Industrial Revolution just isn't as fun. I've never done a succession game before, but I'll probably be up for one on Immortal if we do that. I can win Deity with an OP civ like the Inca (I shouldn't say "like," that's the only win on Deity I have  ), but it's so stacked against you it's not much fun.
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Dec 29, 2017 20:59
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Civics in general are incredibly powerful and the only thing stopping certain civics from being considered "good" is the opportunity cost and actual cost(i.e. anarchy) involved in using one over another (e.g. Serfdom would be a wonderful civic to run if it didn't involve not running either Slavery or Caste System). You even have some seasoned and very skilled Civ 4 veterans who have argued that SPI is actually the best trait in the game because it lets you freely switch civics without anarchy, allowing you to more easily have the best of all worlds in your civics choices and save many dead turns over the course of the game. They argue that that is actually more valuable in the long run than any of the bonuses from other traits. I'm not sure if I agree with that but I can see the logic behind it. EDIT - Also is it fine if I express interest in doing some turns for the Immortal game in advance? Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 01:33
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So, there's no profit in being a good person? Interesting. Explains much about the world, doesn't it? To be successful, you need to be a proper bastard.
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Dec 30, 2017 06:04
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I just want my digital people to live happy fulfilling lives.
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Dec 30, 2017 06:49
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If my digital people were more resistant to getting brutally worked to death than "1 unhappy face for 10 turns" then maybe I wouldn't whip them so much.
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Dec 30, 2017 07:30
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Gaius Marius posted:I just want my digital people to live happy fulfilling lives. Yeah, and build all the wonders, and have a good-looking empire. This is why I play on Prince difficulty.
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Dec 30, 2017 08:51
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Super Jay Mann posted:Civics in general are incredibly powerful and the only thing stopping certain civics from being considered "good" is the opportunity cost and actual cost(i.e. anarchy) involved in using one over another (e.g. Serfdom would be a wonderful civic to run if it didn't involve not running either Slavery or Caste System). Yeah I really like the idea of using Spiritual on an ultra slow paced game where I could get away with planning out my turns a week in advance and doing stuff on the level of: - I'm about to get a bunch of Settlers and infrastructure out, let me switch to Slavery + OR in order to whip the stuff out faster. - Alright now I'm about to plant 3-5 cities on the same turn, gonna go into Caste + Pacifism + Representation + Mercantilism so I can get the max mileage out of the Artist specialists I'm running to pop borders and other specialists I'll just run in general. - Borders are popped, let's switch from Pacifism to OR to help with buildings once again. - Now I need to start getting troops out, wartime civic time, Vassalage, Theocracy for more free EXP. Just thinking about that type of stuff makes me excited but the thought of playing a game that slowly outside of a pitboss would bore everyone to death since I'd spend a day planning out 1-10 turns and... Hmmm.
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Dec 30, 2017 10:45
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Super Jay Mann posted:If my digital people were more resistant to getting brutally worked to death than "1 unhappy face for 10 turns" then maybe I wouldn't whip them so much. my digital people only get mad for five turns :monty:
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Dec 30, 2017 13:50
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Basically the usefulness of Spiritual scales with how  you are, whereas, say, Creative or Industrious have easy benefits even for lazy players like myself.
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Dec 30, 2017 14:31
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turns 190-200 Okay these weren't my favourite set of turns. I got screwed real bad on combat odds in a very infuriating way. I would send in a knight at 78% odds, and lose. We lost like five knights at these odd which really pisses me off. Whatever! We did conquer some cities.  We take three cities from Shaka in the south. All pretty good cities. We continued to build some universities and commerce multiplying buildings in our cottaged and commerce cities; producing Janissaries and Catapults elsewhere. They're going down to Ulundi right now as a rally point.  After taking the cities, we get Shaka offering us these turns. I accept them minus the city. I didn't realise we had vassal states on, but let me break them down real quick - they really really suck usually. The concept is that once you beat a civ down enough, you take them as a vassal because: 1. They'll usually always vote for you on U.N. or A.P matters, allowing you to win diplo victories more easily. 2. A buffer zone against another power - perhaps you couldn't hold certain cities bc they'd be culture crushed so you take the vassal and gift them those cities back in order to stop a third party from profiting from that war. 3. The AI is given bonuses on higher difficulties so they can go further with worse land. However usually vassal states working AGAINST you. Why? Because the AI can ask another AI to vassalise them and then bring them into the war. Usually you'll lose a game because you get decc'd on by the score leader after a vassalisation OR the scoreleader somehow manages to vassalise half of the other AI's after taking a single city from them. Vassal states SUCK and plus they really really gently caress up overseas maintenance costs which disincentives planting cities on another continent. TBH after losing knights constantly to terrible odds I knew that fighting Shaka any further would be pretty annoying. The two cities he has left are horrible too - his new capital of Bulawayo has like three deer and yet only gets like 10 food from that. It's ALL tundra. So instead I vassal'd him. Now in Civ4, doing something like this might be contentious. After all, even if Shaka's remaining cities are mediocre at best and a drain at worst, they'd still eventually make a profit. Every city is an investment. Some people would prefer to fight a war to extinction. Usually I do, but I think having Shaka spam longbows or musketmen (if we gave him gunpowder) would do us a little good. After all, not only does he have bonuses on Emperor, but his insanely high unit production factor (a hidden attribute that he has in the game files) comes into play. Trust me this was a GREAT decision and history will absolve me. Also I didn't take the city he offered because it has no food sources and is all ice and tundra.  Our caravel we built is sent to meet Hannibal. He offers us this trade. Nice! We go onto Music, and we're currently on Military Tradition for Currassiers. Okay we should probably now build a whole ton of siege and gunpowder units before thinking about stomping Persia's guts out. This game is gonna be a race to dominate our continent and considering Cyrus is still running around with Immortals and Swords, we have a good lead on him in terms of military from what I can see. We could at least knock the wind out of him if we act fast. We'd want to go onto rifling as soon as we finish up Military Trad (which will be Printing Press > Rep Parts > Rifling.) Ganbatte, gamers http://www.mediafire.com/file/gcbdvydr2ffbnh2/CIV%204%20LP%20T200.CivBeyondSwordSave Botswana! fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 00:14
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Alright, hopefully I don't bite off more than I can chew by doing this, but I'm going to do a single player game and just go nutso on the detail. It'll be a Noble's Club game, played on Monarch, the settings are the same as a normal game but Huts and Random Events are off. As for information about the map. quote:Medium and Small -- two continents of those sizes, with some islands. Random opponents. Not sure which continent I'm starting on, but there'll be another one at the very least. As for the leader...  We're playing as Hatshepsut, aka Hatty. Her traits are Spiritual and Creative. Spiritual, as mentioned earlier is pretty interesting. The tangible effect it gives you is half price Temples. Temples are religious buildings that give you +1 Happiness and +1 Culture, and they cost 40 hammers under spiritual. For comparison, a +1 Culture building (the monument) costs 30 hammers, and a +1 Happiness building (the Colosseum), costs 80 hammers. The Temples of your state religion also, with certain wonders, give you +2 Science (University of Sankore), +2 Gold (Spiral Minaret), +5 Culture (Sistine Chapel) and +2 Hammers (Apostolic Palace). It's pretty neat actually. However, that's not all Spiritual does. Normally, when you change Civics or religions, you have to incur at least one turn of Anarchy. Anarchy basically shuts down your civilization, all you can do is move units. You generate no hammers, gold or can grow cities. Spiritual doesn't suffer from that issue. So what this means is you can change Civics every 5 turns if you want, with no drawback, which lets you be way more flexible with your gameplan and reward thinking ahead. Also if AIs ask you to change civics or religions, you can just agree and switch back right after. Creative is much simpler. It gives every city +2 culture, this means that firstly, you're going to win any sort of border war because you don't require a hammer investment for your culture, and secondly, you can plan your cities with the outer ring included as well. It's just a really, really neat trait. Oh, and it also halves the cost of Libraries, Theaters and Colosseusm, which is great. Hatty is my favourite leader in the entire game (Isabella is actually a very close second and is my fave in RtR). However, both Hatty and Isabella have the issue of where I really like the leaders, I'm not a fan of the actual Civs (Spain way more than Egypt). Egypt starts with Agriculture and The Wheel, which are pretty good techs, it'll let us go for an early Chariot rush while still getting some tiles improved. Speaking of Chariots, Egypt's unique unit is the War Chariot, a Chariot with +1 strength (great) and immunity to first strikes (great against Archers). They're basically good to rush someone with and cover you against most units + barbs in the early to mid game. The unique building is the main...weird part of Egypt. It's the Obelisk, which is a unique Monument that gives you 2 Priest slots. So the problems with this just sort of all cascade into each other: 1) You're Hatty, you have the Creative trait, you don't generally WANT to build Monuments, since they're a complete waste of hammers. 2) Priest specialists give you 1 hammer and 1 gold when used, this is basically like working...a plains river tile? They get really good if you get Pyramids and Angkor Wat and so on, but you need to get them online. 3) Great Prophets will offer you the following: - Merge them for 2 hammers and 5 gold per turn (this is pretty good). - Research the following techs: Meditation Polytheism Priesthood Monotheism Theology Divine Right Mysticism Masonry (Warlords patch & BTS) Code of Laws Civil Service Monarchy Literature Music I've truncated the list slightly but...yeah. The most interesting tech you'll probably snag here with this is Theology or Divine Right, and that's midgame. - Build a Shrine. For this you need to have either founded a religion or control a holy city. Egypt don't start with Mysticism so getting a religion is a crapshoot at best, but if you're next to someone and you War Chariot rush them then maybe... - Golden Age. You get 8 turns of increased production after kneecapping your production and gold by working Priest specialists. So I guess you can just constantly work 2 Priest specialists and merge them into your capital and create some sort of Bureaucracy monster, but then we're Spiritual so we're the one trait that has an excuse for wanting to use Vassalage. In case you can't tell, I don't like Obelisks. Of course, if you do have a surplus of food and want to work Specialists, you can just get Writing, get cheap Libraries and work Scientist AND Priest specialists or something. But that'd require a lot of food and...  omfg I settle in place because what could be better than 3 Wet Corn?  Oh, 4 Wet Corn, okay, and a bunch of riverside grassland. I'll just assume I'm 6 tiles away from Monty, Shaka and Alexander. Basically, working those 4 improved tiles gives me a food surplus of [b]18/b] (26 food minus the 8 food from working the tiles), that lets me 4 turn a Worker just from the food alone. It lets me work 8 Specialists assuming I'm happy enough to get to size 12 (or 2 specialists at size 3, 4 at size 6, 6 at size 9), it's crazy. Anyway, my build is a Worker, obviously.  My tech choices are more interesting though, I have 4 options, realistically. - Go Mysticism --> Meditation/Polytheism for an early religion (21 turns) Pro: We get an early religion, this'll let us leverage our Temples and Obelisks extremely well. It also helps since we're spending 15 turns to build a Worker and then he'll spend at least 10 turns getting the first two Corn improved. Con: We have to luck out and actually get an early religion, if we don't, we essentially have paperweight techs. (We can make Obelisks and that's it, on the flip side Stonehenge would be hilarious). - Animal Husbandry (12 turns) Pro: We get to see where Horses are, we can road to them pretty fast if they're in the first three rings of our capital. Con: If there's no Horses, it's pretty much a waste, even if there are Horses , we can sort of wait. - Pottery (10 turns) Pros: Granaries and Cottages Con: We can't build a Granary for at least 15 turns and we won't be Cottaging until the Corn is done. - Mining + Bronze Working (24 turns) Pro: We can chop the 10 forests around us into...stuff and we can whip off our Corn population really fast. Con: It's low-risk high-reward (I'm basically saying I don't want to do this because it's too good). Chucat fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 01:19
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Chucat posted:Alright, hopefully I don't bite off more than I can chew by doing this, but I'm going to do a single player game and just go nutso on the detail. Does this mean that the Noble Succession game is still on for us plebes once the Deity game is done?
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Dec 31, 2017 01:55
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I'm glad you're doing this Chucat--I love the in depth stuff I've always been too lazy to figure out for myself.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:58
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So before I pick up the save, I should ask: do we want to start gearing up for war with Persia? Personally I've been thinking about it for a while and think it's a good idea, but I don't want to go nuts drafting tons of Janissaries and stacking our border if it's not a direction the other players want to go!
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Dec 31, 2017 01:58
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Also this 4 corn start is so busted I might just put it on Emperor so you can watch me get slowly ground down into paste for my arrogance.Magil Zeal posted:So before I pick up the save, I should ask: do we want to start gearing up for war with Persia? Personally I've been thinking about it for a while and think it's a good idea, but I don't want to go nuts drafting tons of Janissaries and stacking our border if it's not a direction the other players want to go! We should've killed him 40 turns ago so yes, please do it. Also check what techs he can be traded for to see how behind he is. berryjon posted:Does this mean that the Noble Succession game is still on for us plebes once the Deity game is done? It is. I'm just thinking about what leader to choose and so on. Chucat fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 02:09
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What... happened to all our workers? It looks like we only have 3. Dear god why. It hurts inside.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:15
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Chucat posted:It is. I'm just thinking about what leader to choose and so on. Hilarity option - Nobunaga of Ethiopia.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:17
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You kinda glossed over it but the half speed libraries is arguably the best part of Creative. Libraries are normally 90 hammers which actually makes them kind of hard to whip out early since you need at least a 3-pop whip to get it out without investing passive hammers into it first. Whereas with creative you can just 2-pop whip it after a turn of production and more easily grow back into those two scientist specialists without compromising your other yields. Getting the academy as soon as possible is a huge economic boost so getting the library earlier is well worth it. That's especially true for this start where you have 4 corn to work with so assuming you find some early sources of happiness you're in prime position to get an early scientist this way.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:29
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that cap is in position to be a major late-game commerce city, with 16 cottageable tiles and plenty of rivers. dunno what i think about an early academy though, it doesn't have any quick commerce. i'd be inclined to just have it churn out settlers for a couple of millennia and let city 2 and 3 grab a corn each and grow the cottages for it. berryjon posted:Hilarity option - Nobunaga of Ethiopia. boudica of byzantium
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Dec 31, 2017 04:10
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 This may be true early on, but now we need as much territory as possible!  This is the world as we know it right now. There are more continents and Civs out there, though, and I'm going to send our Caravel to find them.  Our glorious capital is prospering and producing lots of commerce.  The religious capital of our empire is pretty much the same. This city will do very well for us once we get a Bank and Wall Street here. Between a bank, grocer, market, and wall street, gold output in the city will be +300%, which is pretty key to combo with a shrine, which produces +1 gold for each city following the associated religion. As you can see, the Kong Miao is producing 24 gold for 24 cities--the gold is all associated with the shrine, not with the cities.  Our Heroic Epic city can produce units very quickly and should produce nothing but units for a good long while.  Gotta love those moneybag icons! Despite what you might think, the moneybags don't represent gold income, but commerce income. Those represent mature villages and towns. We need the Printing Press tech and Free Speech civic to really get full value from these!  Our Maoi Statue city. While it's not as good as it would've been if we were Financial or had the Colossus or something, it's still a pretty good use of mediocre coast tiles.    We have some cities that are pretty much notable for nothing other than making commerce.   These two cities have very little commerce potential, so I propose we focus them towards unit production.  The former Zulu capital is a pretty attractive spot.      These captured Zulu cities need some attention, but someone's gone and sabotaged us by deleting our Workers  You could've at least put them on road-building duty! Lots of tiles in our empire that could use some roads. Seriously, I am aghast at this.  Our military at the start of our turn. Also, proof that we only have 3 workers for some reason.   I give Justinian Gunpowder in exchange for these techs. In retrospect, I think this might have been a bad move. I'll come back to this later.   Cyrus is actually the #1 military power in the world atm. Thus, we need the draft to beat him. I swap to Nationhood, Theocracy, and Mercantilism. Mercantilism will disable foreign trade routes, but those are going away for the most part anyway once we declare on Cyrus, and I don't believe we have Astrology for foreign trade routes with the other continent (and Shaka has what, two cities). But it gives a free specialist in every city! I immediately go to every city and swap away from the horrid Spy specialist that the AI loves to assign and set it to a Scientist or Engineer. Nationhood I'll describe in a bit, when we get to the drafting. Theocracy gives +2 XP to units produced in cities with our state religion, which will combo nicely with the draft.  While we wait for our Civ to come out of revolt, I reorganize our units, moving axemen to act as city garrisons in our safe, backline cities, while moving knights and janissaries to the front to face Cyrus. IMO, for our war with Cyrus, we want to take his northmost cities and sweep downward, because he has horses in a northern city, and disconnecting those will give us an edge.  I send our caravel off to explore the great unknown.  Okay, so, drafting. You can draft a unit, essentially sacrificing one or more pops to instantly create a military unit. Unlike military units made via slavery or cash-rushed, this military unit instantly appears and can move on the same turn. However, a drafted unit gets half the normal EXP a unit would normally start with being built in the city. This is why I have decided to pair it with Theocracy, to help our cities with barracks continue to produce promotion-ready units. Over the next few turns, I draft about a dozen or so janissaries from various cities. We can't draft from our Zulu conquests because it requires 10% of the citizens in the city to be considered "our" nationality. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been some time since I played Civ IV, but unless I'm mistaken, eliminating Shaka would've removed all Zulu nationality from our cities, correct?  You can see here that Persia appears to still have a bunch of outdated crap, so I start to gear us up for war.  I even save up a bunch of gold and upgrade our Knights to cuirassiers, since it's actually pretty effective in terms of gold cost.  We've got a pretty decent stack here. So I decide to go to war.  However... it appears at some point Cyrus got Gunpowder. This is problematic. It's possible he traded for it from Justinian. Then again, perhaps not. I did not trade away Military Tradition at the very least. Still, I'll own that it was a mistake on my part, I don't play with Tech Trading on so sometimes the intricacies of it escape me... and if I do, I certainly play with Tech Brokering toggled off (setting "No Tech Brokering" means you can only trade techs you researched yourself away). He did not have this a few turns ago, at least not in a way that was visible to me.  Still, we might be able to carve a good chunk out of him by hitting now. Most of his units still appear to be outdated, and we can take advantage of that, especially since our Janissaries specialize in killing outdated junk. Still, we shouldn't take him lightly. If he shows up with Cuirassiers he could threaten some of the cities we took from Shaka (though I moved some Janissaries down to protect them). Here is the save. I accidentally moved one unit at the start of the turn, just killing a swordsman roaming our lands with a Janissary. Apologies for anything I'm loving up horribly, I'm kind of rusty at Civ 4. This is kind of a re-learning experience for me too! But I would like any blatant mistakes I made pointed out so I can learn from them.
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Dec 31, 2017 04:55
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So before starting the game, just a couple of things. - Does anyone actually know what happened to our Workers? - Do not trade away the following techs, like ever: - Feudalism - Gunpowder - Replaceable Parts - Assembly Line - Anything that just gives you a good unit that I forgot, like Machinery I guess. They just have a way of getting around like this and causing people you don't want to get annoying units to suddenly have...annoying defensive units. poo poo like Divine Right, Theology, Literature, Aesthetics, Music, Code of Laws and so on, just trade away as soon as you've got them and extracted the value from them (aka wonders)
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Dec 31, 2017 10:21
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Anyway, tech options, we're getting to the point where we're gonna be hitting endgame Civics, and we pretty much want the following things: Government: This one can actually wait, but we'll want either Representation OR Universal Suffrage. We will not be staying in Merc for reasons evident later on, which slightly lowers the power of Representation. However we do have a lot of towns on rivers, which will allow us to get Levees, which gives all those tiles +2 hammers with Universal Suffrage. Legal: Free Speech for our towns, basically with this and US we're turning our towns into AT LEAST 2/2/8 monsters. Labor: *Said while violently frowning* Emancipation, this poo poo is basically the prisoner's dilemma of Civ where everyone would be happier if no one adopted it but as soon as one person does you all have to otherwise you just start eating unhappiness penalties. Economy: Since I have no love for Corporations despite them being the most busted thing ever, I always go for State Property, the food from Workshops and Watermills is disgusting, the amount it cuts your maintenance by is disgusting, and the fact I don't have to worry about corporations is just the icing on the cake. If we do want to go for Corporations, then it's Free Market. Religion: idgaf. Seriously any of them are fine except for Paganism and Pacifism. Annoyingly I can pretty much make a case for every tech we can research Printing Press (Gold from Towns) Replaceable Parts (Hammers from Mills) Liberalism (Free Religion + Free Speech, also a pre req) Constitution (Representation) Democracy (Universal Suffrage) Astronomy (Pre req, also allows Galleons (we need these) and Observatories (these are useful) Rifling (Rifles) Scientific Method (Pre req) Communism (State Property, also Kremlin) Steam Power (Levees, also prereq) What I'd suggest is something like the following Get Printing Press --> Replaceable Parts for the gold and mills Go Astronomy to let us start making Galleons for transcontinental invasions. Chemistry --> Scientific Method --> Communism for State Property Steel for Cannons Rifling --> Steam Power --> Assembly Line Begin pumping Cannons and Infantry while getting Democracy, cap Justinian and Hannibal then work on the other...other continent and win backdoor domination. But still, got some turns to do, for all I know we might just stall out on Cyrus for 50 turns.  We take Bactra, I'm going to have a city pumping out Catapults since that's going to be where most of our losses come from.  Hopefully this stack just throws itself at the Sentry Cuirassier, because then I can destroy it. It doesn't, but since well, I have my doubts that's his whole stack, I make a Spy to scout out his land, while the Spy is heading out, this happens...  We lose 3 Catapults, 3 Cuirs and 2 Janis and kill pretty much the entire stack. Of course he slowly remakes the stack and this is why you don't wardec someone on tech parity after allowing them to establish tech parity with you. I'm legitimately thinking we should crush a couple more stacks, get a peace treaty and then tech up and kill him. Ideally we should've killed him with Muskets + Cuiriassers but it's okay. Anyway we meet Bismarck, Huyana Capac and Monty, there's one person left who actually founded Hinduism (which is the religion these three have), they also built a bunch of wonders and have two shrines, wonder who it is, I'd have said Justinian but we've met him already... I just stay in Bactra and move out and snipe these stacks whenever Cyrus rolls them up, going into his territory wouldn't be prudent so...yeah. Anyway, T220, he sends ANOTHER pissant stack in, just kill it and gouge him for peace imo, then use our Great Prophet for a Golden Age and research as many civic swapping techs as possible, swap into them and just get Infantry and Cannons and kill him. https://chucat.s-ul.eu/qcUvcH4d Chucat fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 12:05
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I'm fond of Steel beelines. Cannon are meant to fight rifles, and do a good job of it - but if you have them showing up earlier than that they just absolutely crush everything. Oh and I'd put Replacable Parts on the no-no list for trading - if any mil-flavored AI gets a hold of it, they will drop everything to research Rifling. Gunpowder otoh has never bothered me much (except for if the Ethiopians get it). Ordinary Musket don't defend cities much better than the accursed Longbow.
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Dec 31, 2017 14:30
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Prav posted:I'm fond of Steel beelines. Cannon are meant to fight rifles, and do a good job of it - but if you have them showing up earlier than that they just absolutely crush everything. Well it's more for Ottomans we get a bonus against pre-Gunpowder units with our Janis...which we don't get against Gunpowder units.
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Dec 31, 2017 15:22
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fair point. i hardly ever play the ottos.
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Dec 31, 2017 15:57
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Botswana! posted:After taking the cities, we get Shaka offering us these turns. I accept them minus the city. I didn't realise we had vassal states on, but let me break them down real quick - they really really suck usually. I went to Civ4's override folder and manually capped all colonial expenses at 5. It's ridiculous as-is and just makes State Property even more powerful, and I heavily recommend everybody playing the game do something similar. The rule is only there to encourage/force you to turn your overseas cities into their own vassal state. Following up on that, vassals will automatically vote for you to win an election, but otherwise get to follow their own devices on things like AP wars and UN resolutions, and that depends on how much they like you. It's usually worth it to liberate some of a vassal's garbage cities, so you get some affinity back and they can put their AI bonuses to doing more with the bad land. The culture point is good too: the further in the game you get, the more that civ's culture dominates their tiles, to the point that you can spend dozens or even hundreds of turns trying to push that culture back if you don't raze cities or vassal your opponent. It's a broken feature that makes modern-era warfare really frustrating. Peace-vassaling (the mechanic where an AI vassals to someone they're not at war with, to try to survive the game longer) is obnoxious too, but it follows consistent internal rules so you can be ready for it. AIs will only vassal to opponents with certain advantages over them (controlling bordering land tiles, enough Power over theirs, etc.), and a 3rd party won't go to war with you if they wouldn't in other circumstances (usually if they like you enough, like if they're Pleased when they only plot at Cautious), or if they can't, which is why you see the YT guys ask for a 1-gold gift or something to set up a 10-turn peace treaty so that AI can't be brought into the war. Magil Zeal posted:We can't draft from our Zulu conquests because it requires 10% of the citizens in the city to be considered "our" nationality. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been some time since I played Civ IV, but unless I'm mistaken, eliminating Shaka would've removed all Zulu nationality from our cities, correct? Yep, that's right. If a civ is wiped out its culture is completely removed from the game. This does remind me to tell folks who might not know (because I didn't either until my 2nd to last game ): if you mouseover that culture bar, it'll tell you that city's chance of revolting back to its motherland, so you know if you need to add more troops to suppress those darn peasants. This can catch people by surprise because a conquered city can't flip back to its founder (unless you turn that option on), but it can revolt back.I also would've waited and consolidated the Zulu land more before going after Cyrus, but it looks like this is going to work out anyway, so good job!
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Dec 31, 2017 16:39
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Yeah I did a Joao game recently and it had a New World so I decided to expand there as soon as I got Carracks and it had some of the most obscene maintenance costs I've ever seen. They were around 17 or something, I put a Forbidden Palace over there and it didn't even help that much. Then State Property hit and they all went down to 3, it was a joke.
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Dec 31, 2017 16:43
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Alright, so let's get the first 30 turns of this Hatty game underway. I'm going to be doing the following build: Techs: Pottery --> Mining --> Bronze Working Units: Worker --> Granary/Warrior alongside Worker --> Granary Whip. So my reasoning for this is as follows. Slavery is an extremely powerful Civic that directly converts population into hammers at a rate of 1 population to 30 hammers, 2 and 3 pop whips are thus extremely powerful, giving me 90 hammers every 10 turns. I can use these to build a Worker with one turn of investment beforehand, or build a Settler after putting 40 hammers into it. However, the drawback of constantly pumping Settlers and Workers is that my city can't grow unless I put turns into slightly less useful things like Warriors or Barracks. However, I'll have an early Granary, which means the city grows faster, which allows either more turns spent put into Workers/Settlers for the 2 pop whips, or doing 3 pop whips that give me 90 hammers. Here's some boring charting. quote:Without a Granary: Basically a Granary is neat.  We meet Hannibal, he's into warmongering and money, but he's a pretty reasonable guy to be next to considering some of the other options.  He's closer than I want him to be, but we'll have Creative borders to push him around, and we can always just War Chariot rush him. He's Financial/Charismatic, so there won't be Combat 1 Spearmen or City Garrison Archers.  Saladin is slightly more annoying. He's Protective and Spiritual, which are uhhh...not the best traits, but he's more annoying to rush. On the bright side, he might found a religion which'll make him appealing to rush to get a Holy City. On the other hand, he's a pretty reliable ally if I recall correctly.  Worker finishes, he goes to work farming a Corn tile, I use a Warrior to grow, I could also use the Granary to grow but it's a wash, I basically just need to put a single turn into a Granary before Bronze Working finishes so I can 2 pop whip straight away.  My Warrior gets eaten by a Bear, I also meet Willem, he's also Creative, but he's also Financial. He's among the best leaders in the game, he's a bit weird since he has a low peace weight and he'll declare on Pleased, but he's never really wardecced me, it's weird.  Right, so, T30, I got Bronze Working, I'm Size 4 and I have a Granary under production. My plan now is to whip the Granary, pop the overflow into a Warrior, grow up to size 4 or 6 with a Barracks and then make a Worker and a Settler using a 3 pop whip. Once again, Slavery lets you whip away up to half your population for 30 hammers per population, it's really good and the fact I can revolt into it straight away is godlike.  That's another 20 hammers right there for Thebes, my overflow was the exact amount required to finish the Warrior...somehow. I'm going Animal Husbandry now to see if there's Horses around while growing and getting a Worker and a Settler. Also rather hilariously, my culture has boxed Saladin's Archer in and it can't get out. I'm wondering where he'll go once I put a city there.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:03
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I don't play Civ4 much anymore, but this is fascinating to read through and watch! Has anyone done something similar to this for Civ5 or Civ6? And what's the consensus on "best civ game" among the series?
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Dec 31, 2017 18:45
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Chucat posted:Anyway we meet Bismarck, Huyana Capac and Monty, there's one person left who actually founded Hinduism (which is the religion these three have), they also built a bunch of wonders and have two shrines, wonder who it is, I'd have said Justinian but we've met him already... Oh god it's Izzy isn't it  (Probably Hatty or Ramesses) RedMagus posted:I don't play Civ4 much anymore, but this is fascinating to read through and watch! There is no consensus because Civ 5 and 6 are really a different series from Civ 1 through 4. Civ 4 vs. Civ 5/6 is a holy war within Civ fandom that will never end.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:56
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it would end overnight if the 5 crew would simply admit that they are wrong
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Dec 31, 2017 19:03
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Eric the Mauve posted:There is no consensus because Civ 5 and 6 are really a different series from Civ 1 through 4. Civ 4 vs. Civ 5/6 is a holy war within Civ fandom that will never end. And then there's people like me: the reviled and damned outcasts known as Beyond Earth fans.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:00
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Cythereal posted:And then there's people like me: the reviled and damned outcasts known as Beyond Earth fans. Alpha Centauri fans have your back, for at least making the attempt.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:35
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For the record, I'm not 100% that Cyrus got the tech in a trade--I certainly didn't trade off military tradition for those cuirassiers. Still, it was a mistake on my part. I wasn't thinking properly about tech trading/tech brokering. And whoever deleted all our workers has my undying hatred.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:44
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Cythereal posted:And then there's people like me: the reviled and damned outcasts known as Beyond Earth fans. berryjon posted:Alpha Centauri fans have your back, for at least making the attempt. Nothing wrong with Beyond Earth (ignoring all its problems). Centauri is indisputably the better civ-like in space but it is dated, it has an UI that is bloated and clunky by today standards and I can understand people not getting into it. RedMagus posted:And what's the consensus on "best civ game" among the series? Oh god. Civ 4 is without a doubt* the pinnacle of old school Civ design, while 5 and 6 are an attempt at a new paradigm so comparisons to 4 are on some level unfair because it is the result of 3 and an half (depending on how you consider Centauri) games of iterative design. That counts for a shitload: Chairman Sheng-ji Yang - Looking God in the Eye posted:Technological advance is an inherently iterative process. Having said that, 5 and 6 faceplant horribly in places where the really, really shouldn't. *there's always going to be that guy insisting the series has gone downhill since civ1 / civ2 / Alpha Centauri / Civ3 (choose the appropriate response). Let's ignore that guy please.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:48
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4 and 5 are the best because those are the ones that I have
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Dec 31, 2017 21:03
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 18:24 |
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You people are such plebs. The best Civ game is the original 1980 boardgame. 
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Dec 31, 2017 21:14
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