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Blazing Ownager posted:The monolith needs to be activated at both sides to work, at the same time. What? 
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Jan 21, 2018 20:39
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Tarquinn posted:What? OK that was a silly way to word it. I mean the monolith seems to link to very specific dates. Like you need someone on both ends to enter a specific time. They've actually said this and it was one of the reasons the Monolith couldn't be opened to send Fitz through, that someone has to be at the matching receiving end to activate it as well. i.e. you need two people both in contact with the monolith opening it to each other's corresponding time or it won't work. Basically the way I understand it is to go from 2018 to 2028 you would want person A in 2018 trying to open it to a specific time and day in 2028, then someone in 2028 at that specific time and day tries to open it back to that specific day and time in 2018. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 21:20
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Tarquinn posted:What? Time is always moving in San Dimas. That's where the Monolith is.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:21
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hope and vaseline posted:Not only that but rockomancer Flint's gonna be the one to piece the broken monolith together Hadn't thought of that but it makes sense. Azhais posted:Bill & Ted has the best time travel mechanic  Zebulon posted:Apparently a VFX supervisor confirmed that the alternative timeline is what happens without sending them forward via the Monolith. Why would Fitz have his speech about characters they met in the future timeline, then? Blazing Ownager posted:Also I still think Deek's dad is going to be Hunter or at least someone important, dead as he is, because of how much pain they've taken to not say his name. Wouldn't it be rad if Deek's dad was Ward?  Anyway, look. This is what the show has shown us: The team is sucked to the future in episode one of this season. The team has Kreeventures, and goes back in time with the knowledge that somehow they have to not blow up the Earth, or stop Daisy from doing it, or... something? They go back in time, but fail. The survivors (which includes Fitz, May, Robin, and Yoyo, implying that Mack, Simmons, Daisy, and Coulson have died or didn't make it back) make it to the Lighthouse to deal (apparently) with the Kree, though they crash the Zephyr and/or escape to the Zephyr later on. Robin, in the past, talks about Flint, who May and Fitz do not seem to recognize/think cane back in time with them. Therefore, Flint does not travel to the past in Robin's vision or perception of events, and the time loop continues. The time loop is probably going to be broken this season, because our protagonists have to win somehow and I doubt the show will end with everyone dying. May (in the future) now knows about Flint, something she did not really seem to know in the flashback. Robin did tell her how to get home. Time travel logic is kind of annoying. \/\/\/ You're right, I didn't write it in my explanation above, but it's one of the things why I'm convinced that the flashback May, Yoyo, and Fitz know about the future. CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 22:30
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A lot of people seem to be skipping over the fact that 2022 Fitz mentions how Voss couldn’t change things, so unless there is a baby boy Voss running around, he means the Future Voss who stabbed Robin.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:43
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Ironically Voss DID change everything because stabbing Robin is the catalyst to get the crew back to the present day. 
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Jan 21, 2018 23:03
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Zebulon posted:Apparently a VFX supervisor confirmed that the alternative timeline is what happens without sending them forward via the Monolith. I bet this guy is as confused as everyone else
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Jan 21, 2018 23:04
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:
Because Robin is telling them about the future. I've read a lot of X-men, this is low level time travel fuckery.
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Jan 22, 2018 00:39
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Everyone is forgetting..there are still Daisy robots running around on present day Earth. Daisy robot could have attacked Gravitonium Man and caused this whole fiasco to go down. Also of note is Daisy didn't use powers in that video. The video's from an episode last season, where Daisy spoke to the press. (It's the last episode of the Ghost Rider arc). It's got nothing to do with the upcoming disaster, beyond it being an easy place for the news crews to source footage of Daisy.
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Jan 22, 2018 01:10
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Hadn't thought of that but it makes sense. Ambivalent posted:A lot of people seem to be skipping over the fact that 2022 Fitz mentions how Voss couldn’t change things, so unless there is a baby boy Voss running around, he means the Future Voss who stabbed Robin. That's what I thought until that writer confirmed they hadn't been brought to the future or sent to the past and that the flashbacks were of the original unchanged timeline. It only works if all the knowledge everyone has comes directly from Robin's mutterings. At some point off screen she had to be talking about Voss trying to stop Daisy like we saw her mention Flint. She also told everyone how Daisy would be going back in time. Fitz was pissed because due to his understanding of time travel if Daisy goes back to the past and the Earth is still destroyed in his timeline then they failed. Really he is the original timeline Fitz that has to live through the single original hellscape timeline to set things up for Robin's plan, which works on the first attempt and creates an alternate timeline. There actually is no loop as we are about to see the first attempt at fixing everything. Flashback team never had anything to do with time travel and only know what they know from listening to Robin. It kinda needlessly complicates things but this is the only explanation that makes any sense. I'm not sure if this is more or less complicated than Flash time travel.
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Jan 22, 2018 01:17
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VictorianQueerLit posted:That's what I thought until that writer confirmed they hadn't been brought to the future or sent to the past and that the flashbacks were of the original unchanged timeline. If you're referring to the tweet, that's a VFX guy, not a writer.
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Jan 22, 2018 01:22
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VFX guy must be wrong. I think this is what's going on, as others have discussed.  It's kind of crazy to think that May finds out she becomes Robin's Mom on Robin's deathbed, and then goes back in time and raises her knowing what will happen at the end of it all. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 03:40
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That's what I'm thinking, too. Also, when 2022-ish Yoyo argues with May in Robin's vision, it seems like May is the one who suggested a deal with the Kree for help, or at least supports it. And Yoyo talks about how 'you changed our name', what did SHIELD change it's name to, I wonder
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Jan 22, 2018 03:51
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Ambivalent posted:That's what I'm thinking, too. I didn't catch that line, but an obvious answer would be S.W.O.R.D.
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Jan 22, 2018 03:58
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I'm kind of disappointed there isn't a gif of Fitz losing his poo poo about time travel because that's basically me trying to make any sense of any time travel story. That's a compliment, not a criticism. Keep it loose and lampshade it, SHIELD. Good job.
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Jan 22, 2018 05:03
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Ugh, the problem may be the "has to be triggered at both times" thing. Bad timeline happens with everyone present, and Robin has visions. But that is already after the diner. If she had the vision to kidnap SHIELD before the diner, great, but then we're where we are now and the flashbacks make no sense. However if she started having the visions on how to "fix everything" sometime after (as we see in the flashbacks), it'd be "trivial" to grab them at the diner to fix it from the future only. Otherwise it's obviously way too late for Enoch to grab them and trigger the monolith. Here's a thing - are we sure Flint is supposed to be helpful? May could have been told "don't take Flint back with you" or even "kill Flint" because he ends up destroying Earth. Do the flashbacks actually specify that they can't be post-time travel and weren't able to prevent what happened (although that doesn't agree with what I said above, and May wouldn't have been willing to get Kree help). Another line of thought is the "Yesterday's Enterprise" thing, where I believe the original timeline is the war one, and the past was changed by sending the Ent-C back. We're witnessing the "SHIELD never makes it back" timeline, which would be the default one, which would imply Flint does need to help in the past, but that still doesn't explain the flashbacks entirely, because they ARE there (sans Flint for now) so they would have had to be sent back. Nope, I do not approve of this time travel!
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Jan 22, 2018 05:11
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Aside from Fitz talking about Voss, there's also May telling Robin things that Robin doesn't appear to know yet, like how she'll eventually have the vision the team needs to get back (granted, that's kind of a given, but still). Plus her talking about how she'll be there for Robin in the end while Robin will be there for May in the end as though she'd already lived half that story. The only way this time travel doesn't make sense so far is if you assume it's some kind of alternate timeline; I'm aware of what that AoS guy said on Twitter but the pieces of this episode fit together just fine if you just assume it's a Robin flashback+SHIELD flashforward.
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Jan 22, 2018 05:19
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If the bad timeline still happens with or without the team then maybe the bad timeline is caused by not-SHIELD 
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Jan 22, 2018 05:23
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You're all overthinking it.
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Jan 22, 2018 05:55
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Argue posted:Aside from Fitz talking about Voss, there's also May telling Robin things that Robin doesn't appear to know yet, like how she'll eventually have the vision the team needs to get back (granted, that's kind of a given, but still). Plus her talking about how she'll be there for Robin in the end while Robin will be there for May in the end as though she'd already lived half that story. The only way this time travel doesn't make sense so far is if you assume it's some kind of alternate timeline; I'm aware of what that AoS guy said on Twitter but the pieces of this episode fit together just fine if you just assume it's a Robin flashback+SHIELD flashforward. No, she's saying that because she is showing compassion and being a motherly figure. Not because she knows it will happen, but because May is a good mother and that's how she comforts Robin. Everyone is overthinking this, yes.
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Jan 22, 2018 06:04
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The only things we know for sure is Flint's gonna get juiced up on more teregen Crystal and vibrate the planet at a different frequency to Daisy's powers and prevent Earth's destruction. And Robin is dead.
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Jan 22, 2018 06:08
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Ojjeorago posted:You're all overthinking it. 
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Jan 22, 2018 06:21
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Ojjeorago posted:You're all overthinking it. the most abstract loss.jpg yet
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Jan 22, 2018 06:42
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So people keep mentioning that the monolith has to be opened at both sides. Well the monolith was opened in 2018 to send them to the future. If their coming back to the past it would make sense the gates still open so they return the same time they left.
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Jan 22, 2018 06:43
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hope and vaseline posted:Not only that but rockomancer Flint's gonna be the one to piece the broken monolith together You called it. RemindMe! 3 months.
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Jan 22, 2018 08:41
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SpartanIV posted:VFX guy must be wrong. That's one of the things that makes me think the flashback is our protagonists sent back in time from the future but not fixing things. Ambivalent posted:That's what I'm thinking, too. This, too. What we have here is a Horn of Eld situation I think, with Flint being key.
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Jan 22, 2018 09:37
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Im completely fuckin lost after this episode. Alright up to now but I have problems with time fuckery and keeping things on track. Oh well. I hope it starts to make sense soon
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Jan 22, 2018 13:35
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If you’re wondering how he eats and breathes And other science facts Then repeat to yourself ‘It’s just a show, I should really just relax.'
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Jan 22, 2018 14:44
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tessiebee posted:Im completely fuckin lost after this episode. Alright up to now but I have problems with time fuckery and keeping things on track. Oh well. I hope it starts to make sense soon It will probably involve events unfolding with context this time (like Daisy trying to hide and stop her from blowing up the world, thus causing her "last known" footage) and we'll all have this humongous sense of dread until the team finally figures it out and saves the day. Maybe 
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Jan 22, 2018 15:31
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There's still more time travel fuckery to be had at some point too, because someone will probably be sent even further back in time pre-2000's to build the lighthouse. I expect at some point we'll meet an older version of one of the characters in 2018 who was sent back to the 1970's. Prepare for Old Man Deke to show up at some point.
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Jan 22, 2018 15:49
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:That's one of the things that makes me think the flashback is our protagonists sent back in time from the future but not fixing things. That's be sense I get too. They have done this loop so many times with no memory of it, and we're just going to see the final, successful attempt that breaks the loop. At least Fitz didn't have to live out the death of Susan over and over
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Jan 22, 2018 16:01
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When it comes to time travel stories I tend to just let the details gloss over and enjoy the ride. It's nearly impossible to make any of them make sense. Go read "—All You Zombies—" to get your brain permanently broken for time travel stories, then you can just turn it off.
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Jan 22, 2018 16:36
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I've kinda been hoping for someone to time travel back to the late forties/early fifties where they can hang out with Peggy, Howard and Jarvis for a few episodes.
Hansen85 fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 16:54
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Hansen85 posted:I've kinda been hoping for someone to time travel back to the late forties/early fifties where they can hang out with Peggy, Howard and Jarvis for few episodes. I'd totally be down for that being Coulson. He gets separated going back for this seasons pod 2 and ends up helping Peggy resolve the outstanding story lines from her series and helps found SHIELD in next seasons pod 1.
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Jan 22, 2018 20:11
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Ghostrider whispered to Coulson that something terrible would happen to him, so my guess is we'll find out what this season.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:16
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Teek posted:There's still more time travel fuckery to be had at some point too, because someone will probably be sent even further back in time pre-2000's to build the lighthouse. I expect at some point we'll meet an older version of one of the characters in 2018 who was sent back to the 1970's. Prepare for Old Man Deke to show up at some point. Well, yeah. He's got to get to the past somehow, so he can change his last name to Ward and have his sons. Edit: With Daisy, obviously.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:26
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ashpanash posted:Ghostrider whispered to Coulson that something terrible would happen to him, so my guess is we'll find out what this season. Ghostrider Mack, Ghostrider Coulson, Ghostrider. God drat that was an amazing season.
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Jan 22, 2018 22:17
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OB_Juan posted:Well, yeah. He's got to get to the past somehow, so he can change his last name to Ward and have his sons. This took a turn that I was very uncomfortable with
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Jan 22, 2018 23:09
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Deke's dad's name was Owen according to Voss during the episode. I know someone mentioned that he hadn't been mentioned, but it had. So, maybe FitzSimmons grandson. Would also explain how he was smart enough to rebuild the Framework. Edit: and how Owen finished building the magic cyclotron. Edit2: I'm also under the impression that they've been having this loop over and over and we are getting to watch the one where they get it right. The scenes they showed in 2018 are of the team after they get back to the present. Doesn't explain why May works with the Kree in the future/past/future other than "if we don't, we all die right now". But totally calling it that Flint will be able to hold the world together when Daisy and Graviton break it. Some earthquake facts from Wikipedia. quote:Beyond 9.5, while extremely strong earthquakes are theoretically possible, the energies involved rapidly make such earthquakes on Earth effectively impossible without an extremely destructive source of external energy. For example, the asteroid impact that created the Chicxulub crater and caused the mass extinction that may have killed the dinosaurs has been estimated as causing a magnitude 13 earthquake (see below), while a magnitude 15 earthquake could destroy the Earth completely.[citation needed] Seismologist Susan Hough has suggested that 10 may represent a very approximate upper limit, as the effect if the largest known continuous belt of faults ruptured together (along the Pacific coast of the Americas). Aleph Null fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:12
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They're gonna go back, fix everything, and then get caught by General Hale. We know she's no good, after what she did to Lts. Evan & Lucas.
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Jan 23, 2018 00:28
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