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Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
I poked at the Endless Mode Builder option and aaaaaaaaaaaaaah. I was foolish enough to try it on the rifts map too. Probably screwed this run but any tips? Also do things that usually wipe out wipe still wipe them out?

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Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM
Playing last autumn again, on hard this time, and why is "revocation of privileges" some regrettable sacrifice? Stuffing the workers with cocaine pills, running continuous 12 hour night shifts, piling the poors on top of each others into medical tents, is not mentioned. Also apparently giving workers prosthetics (which is lauded by said amputees) instead of sending them back as invalids to a collapsing London is also bad?

I'm getting mixed messages from the game proper and the endgame evaluation here, please help.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

The workers really do not like the engineers, so you make everyone unhappy when you force them to work together

Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM
The workers seemed really happy by the prospect of the engineers getting their lilly white hands dirty. Which didn't even happen, as I was just massing research with workers in the end to finish up the last upgrades.

e: the engineers had to drink tea with the workers, though.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

A few workers make some comeuppance statements but that doesn't stop some workers from literally gunning down engineers later. They're happy that the engineers are being knocked down a peg but still don't want to work next to them

Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM
that still doesnt answer my question of why this is somehow worse than all the other stuff i did

prosthetics and sharing tea time, WAS IT WORTH IT?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Nosfereefer posted:

Playing last autumn again, on hard this time, and why is "revocation of privileges" some regrettable sacrifice? Stuffing the workers with cocaine pills, running continuous 12 hour night shifts, piling the poors on top of each others into medical tents, is not mentioned. Also apparently giving workers prosthetics (which is lauded by said amputees) instead of sending them back as invalids to a collapsing London is also bad?

I'm getting mixed messages from the game proper and the endgame evaluation here, please help.

People will complain about things in the endgame wrapup in general, but I know the main campaign has an overall tone of you did/you didn't go too far, above and beyond all that.

Griffen
Aug 7, 2008
A really nice feature about The Last Autumn that I didn't realize at first was that it adds a third mode to Endless, where you can now start out with a ruined generator and have to build it from scratch, in the snow. Definitely extends the replayability of the scenario, though not all features carry over (docks aren't a thing since the frost has already come, etc.). It is very satisfying to build a generator from scratch while your people huddle in cold houses awaiting the coming of their thermal salvation. Also really made me miss shrines in the LA scenario.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Yeah, I poked at that without doing Last Autumn. You have to manage cold snaps and storms without a generator. Seems scary to me.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Nosfereefer posted:

that still doesnt answer my question of why this is somehow worse than all the other stuff i did

prosthetics and sharing tea time, WAS IT WORTH IT?

This question hasn't been sarcastic since the day this game released and it honestly mystifies me that people keep taking it as such. It is an invitation to reflect and a perfectly reasonable answer to the question is 'yes'.

It will ask you sometimes if bribery to break strikes was worth it if you use the strikes. Upon reflection, it's extremely unfair to do it that way because it effectively rewards people for destructive behavior rather than the point of striking, which is to protest an ongoing injustice and attempt to get it redressed for good.

But was it worth it, compared to the other options I had?

you loving bet it was.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Or, having recently listened to the old Watch Out For Fireballs on Frostpunk.

"Yes I became a dictator and had daily executions during the storm to maintain power. But humanity survived and the Captain will someday die."

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)

Fun Shoe

Coolguye posted:

Disagree. Engineers is strictly better if you are doing a low/no law run because the Factory Inspectorate is incredibly powerful for what it does and obviates the need for a fair bit of research and resource expenditure in order to keep work sites on Safe. If you are actually committing to laws then Workers are strictly better because their buttons actually do you good and do not have downsides. Every Engineer button has some sort of stupid downside that fundamentally compromises the button's strategic value, and their big added mechanic of prison labor demands that you make a massively costly strategic pivot right at the time you need to not be getting distracted from your goal.

I said it before and I stand by it: If Last Autumn's overtime mode had you going to the other generators that failed in order to try to slam them out, Engineers would make a lot more sense because convict labor would allow you to spin up and get going so much faster than workers. But as it stands the heaviest lift happens right as convict labor is becoming a thing you can try and it's like bro how about you gently caress off with that I have another 50 steam exchangers to make.
I think that convict labour and Panopticon isn't quite as daunting as it can seem, though I know I almost poo poo myself when going to place the Panopticon for the first time, and it takes up half the loving map!
However, when placing the Panopticon around the generator it actually only takes up the same space as any of the other construction buildings, and all the observation towers just snap into place along the rim of the construction site. Furthermore, a penal colony has a pretty small footprint and houses up to 25 convicts, who do not contribute to discontent, cannot strike and who you can happily leave without heat and healthcare. And when working under the Panopticon, of course, their effectiveness increases with 100%. For me, that pretty handily outweighs the effort of having to pivot to penal labour.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

This month's Humble Choice includes Frostpunk + The Rifts DLC

Obviously I have these, but message me if you want a free key for yourself or for someone who you know wants to try this great game

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Tylana posted:

Yeah, I poked at that without doing Last Autumn. You have to manage cold snaps and storms without a generator. Seems scary to me.

The temperatures are higher in builder mode, even on extreme difficulty. It's pretty manageable.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Mr. Sunshine posted:

I think that convict labour and Panopticon isn't quite as daunting as it can seem, though I know I almost poo poo myself when going to place the Panopticon for the first time, and it takes up half the loving map!
However, when placing the Panopticon around the generator it actually only takes up the same space as any of the other construction buildings, and all the observation towers just snap into place along the rim of the construction site. Furthermore, a penal colony has a pretty small footprint and houses up to 25 convicts, who do not contribute to discontent, cannot strike and who you can happily leave without heat and healthcare. And when working under the Panopticon, of course, their effectiveness increases with 100%. For me, that pretty handily outweighs the effort of having to pivot to penal labour.

i'd be more persuaded by that line of logic if the amount of work remaining after the pivot were higher. as it stands, you are still relying on workers for at least half of the overall workload, and you've been forced to set up infrastructure for them already. these costs are already sunk and there's no way to avoid them. why interrupt yourself when you've already done the majority of the work?

this would entirely change if the bonus objectives were bigger or harder (but as it stands they're kind of a joke), or allowed you to bring your current law set to another work site. convict labor is definitely effective, but you'd need to be able to adopt it earlier to really make it a worthwhile strategy.

Tinfoil Papercut
Jul 27, 2016

by Athanatos
This is a good game to play during the outbreak - also this soundtrack is good to turn on as you watch the chaos unfold out your window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl7Sl-7hdXg

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.
I'm playing this on Gamepass, and while it's a fun game when it works, it seems to have a cartload of problems: My mouse cursor is the windows one, not the ingame one, the cursor sometimes gets "trapped" in a small, invisible box (Alt+tab fixes this one) and, most importantly, you just cannot load saves.

A cursory google search finds solutions, but mostly have to do with editing config files, which you cannot do because the files are encrypted. Has anyone managed to get it working?

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
Just got this game and I'm loving it except I am not loving the way the autosave has its date and in-game day updated in the load menu but on loading you find out not actually been saving game.

BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003

Any new news recently about project tvadg-whatever? I remember hearing that the name was some sort of cypher for the word reconquest, which is interesting, but doesn't help to nail down much of what the dlc would actually be about.

Tom Tucker
Jul 19, 2003

I want to warn you fellers
And tell you one by one
What makes a gallows rope to swing
A woman and a gun

Hey thinking about buying this, looks like fun! The main game is at 12 while GOTY is at 31 with Rifts, Last Autumn, and Project ABABWD62.

Is it worth checking out on 12 bucks for the base game, or does it need the expansions to truly shine CIV V / VI style?

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
I've only been playing the base game so far, but I'm having a blast.
As far as I can tell the expansions just add more scenarios, but I've just bought them and I'll let you know if they alter the original as well.

BobTheJanitor posted:

Any new news recently about project tvadg-whatever? I remember hearing that the name was some sort of cypher for the word reconquest, which is interesting, but doesn't help to nail down much of what the dlc would actually be about.
Apparently called "On The Edge"
https://www.pcgamer.com/frostpunks-final-expansion-now-has-a-teaser-trailer-and-a-better-name-than-tvadgycgjr/

The article text mentions more internal strife in the city, but the teaser voiceover says "They say that the snow is dead. But we've learned to the contrary."
Some kind of external threat?

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Tom Tucker posted:

Hey thinking about buying this, looks like fun! The main game is at 12 while GOTY is at 31 with Rifts, Last Autumn, and Project ABABWD62.

Is it worth checking out on 12 bucks for the base game, or does it need the expansions to truly shine CIV V / VI style?

Frostpunk expansions are more traditional, they add new campaigns and maps without altering the base game.

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)

Fun Shoe
Base game is good. Definitely worth 12 dollars. The Rifts dlc is meh, unless you've already played 100 hours of endless mode and want a new challenge. If you like the base game, Last Autumn offers a neat new take on the mechanics.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
What a worthless trailer. :v:

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
We survived, with the generator at about 97-98% stress when the storm broke.
Tense but exhilarating!

The time lapse was pretty cool, too.

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Congratulations! How horrible did you have to be?

Now try the other scenarios! (Maybe after a break to clear your head.)

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
This game does a great job of ramping up tension. When the storm breaks the relief is palpable.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Tylana posted:

Congratulations! How horrible did you have to be?

Not very.

I'm obsessive about perfect layouts so I googled for some and noticed that had way more food gathering than you'd expect to just maintain levels, and I'd heard there was a huge storm at the end so I ended up with 10+ days of food and coal
I also scrubbed and restarted a bunch of times to get a good first few days, although in retrospect I left scouting later than I should have and could have had more population earlier.

Generator range feels like a trap for people who don't read numbers real good.

Edit: it also really helped me get in the mood that winter's just started here and I'm sitting in my room with the window open and my fingers cold.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
I almost never increase generator range. It never seems worth it.

BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvt1NSBg-Ow

That music will never stop giving me chills. Which is kind of appropriate, now that I think about it. :v:

I tried out the arks scenario and made it through fine, although the poor bastards in New Manchester didn't fare so well. I think I managed my scouts badly, probably should have had them come back more quickly with early steam cores instead of ranging further out and gathering more. So I ended up with a slow start on automatons, and that snowballed into not having a lot of spare resources. Also didn't help that by the time I'd finally gathered the wood and steel to send to them, I instead clicked the option to just send a normal automaton scout instead of the special option with the relief package. By the time I'd noticed and sent another one out, it was too late to beat the storm.

Maybe it didn't matter, though, since I was nowhere close to sending whatever the next care package needed. Food and coal I think? Do you get partial credit for sending only one of the required loads, or do they just die unless you manage to get everything to them?

Tylana
May 5, 2011

Pillbug
Some of the pivots scenarios ask for side-goals are pretty big. I think I frantically ran like 6 upgraded hothouses or seomthing.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
First time I played Endless Builders mode I found 6 steam cores after the first storm. I started a new game and still nothing after the third.

Trying to go for the vegetarian option this run and all I find are groups of 70 survivors and never a loving steam core

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

GotLag posted:

Generator range feels like a trap for people who don't read numbers real good.
it 100% is. its only use is the Central Heating achievement.

BobTheJanitor posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvt1NSBg-Ow

That music will never stop giving me chills. Which is kind of appropriate, now that I think about it. :v:

lmao i knew what this was before i clicked on it. when i introduced my girlfriend at the time to this game it was fantastic, because she asked "do you need to deal with storms and such?" in the first about 10 minutes, and i gave her a look of childlike fear that made her immediately recoil and go 'OKAY.'

then 90 minutes later this music started playing and the storm started up and i saw my look of childlike fear mirrored on her face and i was like "YEAH."

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 10, 2020

Tehan
Jan 19, 2011

GotLag posted:

First time I played Endless Builders mode I found 6 steam cores after the first storm. I started a new game and still nothing after the third.

Trying to go for the vegetarian option this run and all I find are groups of 70 survivors and never a loving steam core

I read somewhere that steam cores are (almost?) always on the outermost 'ring' of locations, so if you're only checking the ones closest to your settlement that might be why you're not getting any.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Tehan posted:

I read somewhere that steam cores are (almost?) always on the outermost 'ring' of locations, so if you're only checking the ones closest to your settlement that might be why you're not getting any.

I gave up and read the wiki page on scouting, and made a list of the location names that usually yield steam cores. I justify this with the Captain instructing the scouts that steam cores vital for the city to persevere, and to accordingly pay more attention to anything that looks like it may contain one.

The landmarks that yield cores are:
Huge Crate
Isolated Shelter
Lone Automaton
Research Outpost
Scattered Sleds
Snowbound Dreadnought
Steam Lorry
Supply Trailer
Upright Sled
Whalers Cabin


I have had one of those be directly adjacent to my city, after the second? third? storm

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008





I have walked the Golden Path.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Jesus. The Endless variant where you have to build the generator from scratch is...tricky. Hard enough to scrounge the resources but you have to deal with workplace safety and ventilators. At least the storms are infrequent and the temperature is relatively livable (since, you know, no generator).

No generator also means no automatons. That's rough...

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)

Fun Shoe

Fister Roboto posted:





I have walked the Golden Path.

Great job! How many tries?

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Mr. Sunshine posted:

Great job! How many tries?

The only times I had to save scum was for the bear cave and Tesla City, and once when I didn't notice that I had a single chilly home.

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GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Speedball posted:

Jesus. The Endless variant where you have to build the generator from scratch is...tricky. Hard enough to scrounge the resources but you have to deal with workplace safety and ventilators. At least the storms are infrequent and the temperature is relatively livable (since, you know, no generator).

No generator also means no automatons. That's rough...

On the other hand, you start with a decently-sized workforce, 5 steam cores (at least on medium difficulty) and a bunch of wood and steel in the form of the ruins. In a way, the start is easier than A New Home.

Note also that you can produce and stockpile all the generator materials before starting to actually build the structure. From memory, if there's no toxic gases then only one of the factories still needs a ventilator to be safe after doing the associated research.

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