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dogstile posted:This is a thing? You can actually track the movements of individual people by clicking on their names in various places. You can even search for people by name, if you happen to know what that is. I know this because I was going for a no-deaths run on A New Home and I ran into a snag where 1 person was walking from a care house to an infirmary but took a very, very long way around and died on the route. After googling around, this is apparently a problem with Care Houses in Hard Mode; people living there will become gravely ill, need to go to the hospital, will take too long to reach the hospital, and then they'll die on the way. So I could search out the specific person, watch the route they'd take, and see them die on some road surrounded by resource depots. The funny thing was that there was an Infirmary right next to her care house, and it had empty beds, but she decided to go across town anyway. Anyway, the fix for this problem is to demolish all of your care houses, then people will go get healthcare when they actually need it. Anyway, yes, the game actually does simulate individual people, but some elements are abstracted; once someone is actually on the job then that becomes just a numbers game (e.g. the game is not simulating that person carrying loads of wood back to a gathering post or whatever), but transitioning between home / work / food / healthcare / etc. is simulated. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 01:06
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Acute Grill posted:Man, if my Fall of Winterhome game was canon for the Winterhome you find in the main scenario, the scouts would have just been fuckin confused. You have to dismantle so many of your own buildings to get the resources for a full evacuation that all my scouts would have found was an empty snowfield and the only evidence that humans were ever here would be what appears to be the worst road layout ever designed. I just finished my first Winterhome run last night and I think that you just need to optimize against the evacuation needs early. 1) You need most of your steam cores to go toward the dreadnought, but you have tons and tons of workers. So don't build coal mines (use coal thumpers) or hothouses (use flying hunters); these are luxury buildings that you cannot afford. You can build these early on if you're really struggling but you're going to have to dismantle them later, and you'd be better served by just upgrading gathering posts, coal thumpers, and hunter buildings. I made the mistake of researching steam coal mines because I saw those 3 juicy coal deposits, but that's a trap. 2) Move your outpost to the steel deposit. You don't need the coal shipments, you can use coal thumpers to generate all of the coal that you need. Two advanced steelworks isn't really enough to fully outfit the dreadnought. 3) Don't build automatons. There are so many reasons to not build automatons. You have tons of labor. You need those precious few steam cores for other things. When the generator breaks your automatons will stop working anyway. 4) Building a Factory to pump out a bunch of prosthetics is reasonable, because there are precious engineers hidden in that stack of amputees that you start with. Amputees also can't reach the dreadnought. If you've moved your outpost to the steel deposit and prioritized building 2 advanced steelworks then you should have plenty of steel to spare. You'll want to dismantle the factory later, but retrieving those extra engineers is worth it I think. 5) Do get Overcrowding, and do get Infirmaries with the upgrade that reduces the number of workers. That's 20 sick people per infirmary with only 5 engineers for full efficiency. You have a few extra steam cores beyond what the Dreadnought needs, build some Infirmaries with them. 6) I think that you need houses with upgraded insulation and advanced heaters. These are necessary for those days when the generator breaks. Anyone living in a tent or working someplace without a heater is going to become sick, and you don't have enough engineers to support that many sick people. You could use Triage if you don't mind killing a ton of your population I guess, I just don't like Triage very much I'm not sure whether Faith or Order is better here, but I think it's probably Faith; field kitchens are a little better on this map than foremen, simply because you're going to need every bit of heat you can get for those days when the generator is broken. Healthcare is difficult to manage because you have so few spare engineers, so preventing illness is a priority. Also, churches don't require workers, so all of your hope-raising buildings will continue functioning even as you evacuate the city. This is also a better thematic choice, since the dude who burned down the city was going down the Order path so presumably no one wants to see new guard towers and propaganda centers going up.
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Oct 1, 2018 01:41
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The lack of heaters for houses is a fair complaint, it's weird that the coal mine is more comfortable than the upgraded house just because houses can't have heaters
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Oct 2, 2018 23:41
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Yeah, you can sweep out the area closest to your generator first. Then use gathering posts to clear out the outlying areas; it doesn't matter if these take much longer to clear, you don't need most of that extra space. I think tearing down the entire area around the generator and rebuilding tents there is a good first step. Build a steam hub near your starting medical posts, rebuild your generator area with tents (ie remove the public house wtf why is it in prime generator territory). Remove any tents that aren't in a heat zone, during a cold snap it's better to have them be homeless sleeping next to the warm generator than in a freezing tent. Fixing coal and food can and should be done simultaneously, you'll have plenty of wood income and plenty of hands to go hunting. Another tip: reduce your generator range, you're not using most of it and that's a ton of coal to save at the beginning (do you really need to heat those destroyed buildings?). Increase the range only when you actually need it.
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Oct 3, 2018 07:53
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Launching the dreadnought ends the scenario though, doesn't it? There's no saying what fraction of people would rather stay and try to survive without the generator than try to flee into the frozen wastleand after the dreadnought goes.
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Oct 4, 2018 07:12
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Jetrauben posted:I mean, people start leaving once they see the dreadnought is full. But some people explicitly choose to stay instead. I wish you could give them the option to just loot the place for food and supplies. Once the scenario is complete you're really just waiting for the end and hoping people psyche themselves up into leaving. What I mean is that there's not really a reason to continue the scenario once the dreadnought is full, is there? It's safe to assume that people will do whatever looting they want after the dreadnought takes off
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Oct 4, 2018 12:26
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Sardonik posted:You'll quickly find that steel is the biggest limiting factor to completing the dreadnought by a wide margin. I'd keep the steel coming until it's done. This; even if you have 2 Advanced Steelworks you may not have enough Steel to build all of the decks on the Dreadnought. The amount of steel that you need per deck grows exponentially, so it's easy to finish the first 2-3 but hard to get the last ones. You also just need a lot of steel in general (for flying hunters, for prosthetics, for houses and infirmaries, etc) If you don't care about fully upgrading the Dreadnought then yeah, get that automaton. Otherwise, the steel outpost makes a big difference
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Oct 5, 2018 04:36
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That looks awesome
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Nov 17, 2018 21:46
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skeleton warrior posted:Nooooo I still have work to do It sounds like you'll need to rediscover everything, any outpost teams and scouts out on the map will freeze to death and you'll have a whole new map
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Nov 19, 2018 22:42
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I started spamming automatons because I had nothing better to do with my resources, and for some reason they all gathered in the park. After work, everybody just goes and stares at the robocluster. It's weirdly adorable. They're plotting something. You're about to unlock the Rise Of The Machines achievement
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Nov 20, 2018 21:15
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That's literally what people have been demanding though. A bunch of people just want to have more time to perfectly reorganize and optimize their little snow cities. So the devs were like "idgi but okay here you go, we're going to add some more city-building stuff and a changing map to at least try and make this mode a little interesting" i've really loved the scenarios for the distinct challenges they provided but it's not like those are replayable at all
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Nov 21, 2018 07:43
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Yeah there's really no question that religion is the superior path for like 90% of circumstances and you can easily just build churches and shrines and a temple for the insanely strong benefits without going full-on theocracy with the faith keepers The foreman ability of Order is very good but it doesn't make up for the fact that guard stations need to be manned and heated while churches can just be cold empty monuments dotting the outskirts of your city
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Nov 21, 2018 21:24
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Away all Goats posted:I'm just starting this game and this game doesn't really tell you a lot, huh? The probability of getting sick scales with the coldness of their workplace and home. So they may not complain about a cold tend or a cold coal mine or whatever, but you're still going to pay for it in a bunch of sick people who need sick beds and doctors to care for them. Try to keep places as warm as you can afford Scouts are the most efficient way to get resources, high-level play always involves getting scouts as soon as possible. Frostland is a rich source of all kinds of resources and often the only kind of way to get certain kinds of resources Roads are only needed to hook up buildings to your power network. Unpowered buildings can't be worked. Gathering posts are a good deal generally, as they provide heat to gatherers and are a lot more efficient than assigning workers directly to resource stacks. Sawmills are usually a waste of time to research. Wall Drills give limitless wood at a much higher rate, their only downside is that they require steam cores to be built. If you really can't afford to get wall drills and you need wood production then get the sawmill, but try not to get in that position It sounds like you may need a cookhouse. Don't forget to also man keep it manned. Otherwise build more hunting huts and/or get the various hunting techs to boost raw food production Some jobs can only be worked by engineers, such as medical posts, infirmaries, workshops, etc. Use them to man buildings that must have engineers. If you have spare engineers then you can just treat them like normal workers (and if you need engineers later you can hover over the Engineer label in the lower right to see where all of the engineers are currently working)
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Nov 22, 2018 06:30
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More advice: Heaters are very inefficient and should be used for emergencies only, as in "oh God this cold spike caused all of my medical posts to shut down". Steam hubs and the generator itself should be the normal way that you heat areas Range and power upgrades cost significantly more coal, but after researching them you can turn down the power or range of the generator to conserve coal. If the temperature suddenly rises 20 degrees maybe consider turning the generator power down some, and definitely turn off your heaters. Don’t forget to set the range and operation times of your steam hubs. The default is for them to be on 24h but that's not necessary for most structures. Keep them at 24h for homes and healthcare buildings, reduce their operation time if they only heat other workplaces eg why would you heat the steelworks when there's no one inside?). Likewise the steamhub range upgrade is automatically turned on as soon as you research it, but probably you don't need most of that extra range right away so you're just wasting coal Hunter buildings, the beacon, the outpost building, and any building not employing people (such as warehouses) do not need to be heated! This includes churches and the temple! There's a bug with the care house where sometimes people in the care house will be gravely ill and will wait until the last possible moment before seeking medical attention, and then they die while walking to the doctor. The bonus for these buildings is pretty inconsequential (half rations for the people living there) so I build one for the hope bonus and then demolish it. Those cripples deserve full rations drat it Coal thumpers are your friend, you need a lot of workers (10 to thump and another 20-40 to gather) but they generate ridiculous quantities of coal. Charcoal kilns are fine too if you have wall drills; there's an achievement for only building charcoal kilns (ie no mines or thumpers). They consume a lot of wood, but they're an efficient use of workers if you have tons of wood resources. Some of maps don't have much wood (Refugees I think has the least) Outposts are very useful, and on New Home there's an outpost that gives 1 steam core per day. Very nice Child labor isn't very good, the research or healthcare bonuses from child shelters are way, way stronger. But if you really need the extra workers then do what you need to do People won't be able to eat unless you keep your cookhouse staffed. If you have 1 worker staffing the cookhouse and then that worker gets sick, then suddenly your city can no longer eat. I find that keeping at least 2 people working the cookhouse is sufficient. Tons of people on reddit complaining about a starving population have just had an understaffed cookhouse. Most efficient strategy starting out is usually to use emergency shifts to research the beacon asap. Scouts bring in insane levels of stuff QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 02:23
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The first emergency shift is guaranteed to not kill anyone! So do it exactly once and then never again because overtime is way better
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Nov 23, 2018 04:39
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Hey also on Survivor mode I prioritize essential decisions like overcrowding and overtime but eventually discontent becomes an issue, at which point you can beeline to Moonshine. It's insane how well that decision deals with discontent. Just another reason to take Faith instead of Order (Order is slightly worse at raising hope and better at reducing discontent, but discontent is much easier to fix in general!)
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Nov 23, 2018 04:44
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:I feel like my first emergency shift always kills someone. Maybe it's changed; when I was going through and getting different achievements some months ago the 1st one never killed anyone
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Nov 23, 2018 11:44
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Winterhome on Hard and above basically requires Overcrowding and that a ton of medical posts be built early on And there are a shitload of cold/freezing tents that just need to be demolished and moved somewhere warm. They can be hard to see because cold tents kind of just look like snow. You can dig through the interface to find a list of all of the coldest homes and pick them out that way
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Nov 29, 2018 22:23
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Better they be homeless than in those tents iirc. Homeless people sleep next to the generator. IIRC the formula for determining whether someone becomes sick is just a time-weighted average of the heat zones where a person spends their day, but being homeless doubles the overall likelihood of becoming sick. The generator really needs to be quite warm (and not just providing +1 heat) in order for homeless people to be better off than tented people You can test this for yourself by finding someone living in a cold tent and clicking on their name to see their likelihood of becoming sick, and then destroying their tent to see how that changes. And on Survivor difficulty people sleeping outside can also just randomly die at night.
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Nov 30, 2018 22:24
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Jamsque posted:I have always meant to do some testing to check on this, I have never been certain on whether people sleeping in the open next to the generator get sick at a different rate from people sleeping in cold tents. People can easily die enroute to medical care on the hardest difficulty, this is also a problem on Arks with the 1 gravely ill worker who comes in from frostland. The key is placing infirmaries close to where new survivors appear (which is always in the same place) and not having a care house because they may decide to go there instead of seeking medical attention
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Nov 30, 2018 22:28
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obi_ant posted:I just got the game and I can't seem to get the people to stop rallying and go to London. Don't worry, that's normal. You don't lose the game if people actually leave in the end, you just lose those workers and I think some hope. You can definitely reduce the number of Londoners to 0 but it's not necessary; the further you go down the Order/Faith lines the easier this becomes, and that's the core conceit: where will you, the player, draw the line? The best way to counteract the Londoners is to build hope structures. The Faith line is much better at raising hope than Order, but Order also helps with discontent. Whichever one you're on, get as many residences within the area of a hope structure as you can and use whatever hope-boosting cooldowns are available to you (faith gets a bunch).
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Dec 26, 2018 22:50
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Speedball posted:Faith is a bit better in the hope department, just stay away from its healing houses because they suck at actually healing people. They're only slightly worse than an infirmary and they don't need engineers to run them, nor steam cores to build them. They're clutch and superior to a medical post in most ways
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Dec 27, 2018 04:31
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Yeah if realism is your thing then don't get into steampunk
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Jan 1, 2019 04:10
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i think it's a joke about how Chicago is suffering from extremely cold weather. Tomorrow night they're expected to hit -50 F (-45 C) As a safety warning NWS in Des Moines said, “to protect your lungs from severely cold air, avoid taking deep breaths; minimize talking.”
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Jan 29, 2019 23:15
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Soho Joe posted:Hey folks! We've been here for what, a few weeks? Anyway, I'm the Pope now, and God is angry. iirc aren't the generators basically in the UK? So at least there's precedent for the leader saying "hey I'm the pope now" and everyone going along with it
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Feb 3, 2019 10:11
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The differences between Faith and Order are: - Faith has more hope-boosters, Order more discontent-reducers - Faith's buildings mostly don't need to be manned or heated, but they take slightly more space - Faith's version of "guards" (faith keepers) come a little later, for the purpose of events - Faith's version of agitators (shrines) come a lot earlier - Faith provides soup kitchens (structures that consume food to provide a +1 heat radius), vs Foremen (food-consuming ability that boosts efficiency) - Faith's House of Healing is practically an infirmary, with a worse healing rate but can employ anyone and doesn't consume a steam core. Order's equivalent is the Prison, which is a last-resort means of reducing discontent since it takes people out of the labor pool. - They both have an ability that turns some people into "informants" who will occasionally find small amounts of resources for you On average I think that Faith is strictly better; the House of Healing is insane, since it requires no steam cores and can be manned by anyone while providing nearly all of the benefits of an Infirmary, but just a little less efficiently. And the basic structures not requiring heating or manpower is a big big deal, you can just drop churches slightly outside of the radius of your steam hubs in order to maximize housing density. While Foremen are usually much better than Soup Kitchens, Soup Kitchens can still be really good on the harder difficulties. And while having more ways to reduce discontent can be nice, the Adaptation tree is already full of those, and the Moonshine ability should make discontent a total non-issue in most games, whereas Faith has a ton of abilities that dump a ton of hope on you, the harder resource to get.
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Feb 4, 2019 12:56
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Bogart posted:Soup and cemeteries are unarguable. The more radical laws should only be used when poo poo is already bad. Amputees can be kept in care houses until a factory shows up, so I’d rather not use triage or any of that because there’s still a workforce accessible. Cemeteries are arguable. The hit you get for building a snow pit instead of a cemetery is small and temporary but organ transplants are a permanent boost to health efficiency, which is way good. Even if you have no corpses, which is ideally your goal anyway Triage is a crappy thing that I never use but radical treatment is what I usually go for, I can live with a few amputees that will get prosthetics later anyway. And overcrowding is generally fine, on Survivor mode it's practically essential, you simply don't have enough engineers a lot of the time so to hell with it. I think that child labor isn't very good and I only use it when it's forced upon me by the scenario, medic apprentices are insanely good just because having efficient healthcare is so strong Always get soup, always get emergency and extended shifts, always go all the way up to moonshine
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Feb 8, 2019 07:21
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Gort posted:How much of a speed boost do organ transplants and medic apprentices actually give to medical recovery time? And how much of a boost do you get from engineer apprentices? Does it scale with the number of children in shelters, or will a single shelter do as well for this as lots of shelters will? Child apprentices provide up to a 20% boost to efficiency. A fully-occupied child shelter provides that bonus to 2 of the relevant buildings, e.g. if you have 1 full child shelter then two of your medical posts, infirmaries, workshops, etc will get a 20% efficiency boost. That's basically 2 additional doctors on-staff. Organ transplants are also a 20% boost to efficiency, even when there are no corpses in your snow pit. Medical efficiency translates directly into healing time, a 120% efficient medical post will heal people 20% faster. You can actually click around and see these numbers in-game, they're just not well-advertised
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Feb 8, 2019 11:39
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Bogart posted:Alright, I didn't know that about organ transplants not actually... requiring dead people. But when you're in a bad way on people dying, cemeteries and ceremonial cemetaries are huge for mitigating that hit to hope. Still, I'm a little leery of the health effects of snow pits. Snow pits have no negative health effects so long as you don't heat them Stop letting your people die sheesh
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Feb 9, 2019 06:58
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DasNeonLicht posted:Personally, I prefer using kids as engineering apprentices and rely on doubling rations for the ill to rush recovery time when I need to. If your infirmaries are even partially empty, medical apprentices seem like a waste, whereas there will always be something to research. My assumption here is that long-term gains through technology and efficiency outweigh any momentary marginal benefit you get by being able to send sick citizens back to work sooner. And remember that some technologies like insulation, heaters, and automatons can keep workers from getting sick in the first place, and infirmary upgrades can eventually make up for medical apprentices. Building efficiency applies to the healing rate of all patients in that building regardless of how many patients it has, so those efficiency boosts are only wasted if literally no one is sick. Tech is valuable and good and I don't think that engineering apprentices are a bad choice, but I always take medic apprentices now because effective healthcare is essential. Medic apprentices and overcrowding is the easy way to hit no-death survivor runs, and it even helps your tech rate because you can afford to divert more of those precious early engineers into additional workshops, plus any researchers that get sick will go back to work sooner. It owns hard. And while I like tech I honestly just run out of stuff that I want to research anyway, even without engineering apprentices (I never research hothouses, sawmills, or any of the specialist automaton stuff, why in the world would I need automatons working in workshops when there's so much coal to mine and wood to drill) QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 07:10
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Davincie posted:how are you guys managing to get to the wall drill on hard or extreme without the saw mill? i either get it and get hosed by coal, or sort out my coal and run out of wood. which i could probably get in the frostlands, but my luxk has never had me find any fast enough to not immensily slow me down research wall drills and coal thumpers earlier than other stuff and don't build non-essential buildings until you do
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Feb 9, 2019 22:07
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At the start of the game, right next to the generator. But by the time that I have the first generator range upgrade I've moved it over by my workshops, which is ~somewhere between my generator and an industrial area. People eat when they have free time so I figure it'd be good to place it somewhere near residences
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Feb 10, 2019 23:36
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Gort posted:I usually leave mine by the generator, but I guess it'd be more efficient to have it on a different steam hub that's shared by no houses, only by places of work. That way you can run that steam hub 8 or 14 hours a day instead of a full 24, and put another house or medical facility next to the generator. This is a bit tricky and I don't fully understand it, but since people actually go to the cookhouse to eat I worry about people having a higher sickness rate if the cookhouse isn't heated 24h. Because people eat before and after work
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Feb 11, 2019 04:41
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Syndlig posted:the only problem i have with houses of healing is for some reason whenever i use them i always get that event where a sick person dies (even when i have no sick people) and it ruins my no-death runs. Pretty sure that's scripted. If you want 0 deaths don't build houses of healing
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Feb 12, 2019 12:58
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Gort posted:I've seen some people say that people can get sick on the way to places, so it might be dangerous to think, "gently caress it, I'll just put the church in the middle of a blizzard" if people actually visit it. It's unclear. I often go churches and have gotten so many heat upgrades that storms basically do nothing, and no one gets sick despite lots of churches in unheated places; this suggests that cold churches don't count toward people getting sick or people spend so little time in them that it doesn't matter.
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Feb 12, 2019 16:55
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I don't know I think the child sent into the generator is technically dying while working
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Feb 17, 2019 03:31
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Bogart posted:Unless you signed the child labor law, it's not technically working, it's just a fun maze! but it's not like children are forbidden from working, child apprentices are working after all, they're just not treated like adult laborers
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Feb 17, 2019 04:26
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"Intern, we need you to fix the generator. Hug your parents goodbye"
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Feb 17, 2019 06:23
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That definitely wasn't your only source of discontent I haven't played in a few patches but iirc people decide which medical facility to go to based on bed availability, and they will avoid overcrowding when making that decision. BUT if several people get sick in a short-enough window they can all decide to go to the same uncrowded facility, causing it to become overcrowded (e.g. they have awareness of empty beds, but not awareness of other people traveling to empty beds). This also means that shutting down the facility won't alleviate the issue, because everyone getting kicked out will simultaneously choose the next nearest facility and then overcrowd it, instead. When I play I just always keep my facilities overcrowded. The discontent hit is pretty small
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Apr 13, 2019 01:48
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If your discontent is so high that an overcrowded medical post pushes you into a game over then everything else is not fine
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Apr 15, 2019 04:03
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