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Kashuno posted:Everything you just said is like the exact problem with people who claim vanilla Town. You are helping scum way more than us I'd actually kinda like to know more about this position because I've heard it brought up before but never gotten a satisfactory explanation why it's believed this is the case, particularly on Day 1. (I know he's not exactly claiming VT here, but I'd still like to understand the point.)
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Dec 31, 2017 18:37
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Vanilla town is an non-self-verifiable claim of a role of extremely low value for the NK It puts power roles at greater risk and cannot be proven by itself, meaning it’s a completely free scum fakeclaim at all times, just behind miller.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:41
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GeneX posted:...what? How is giving a rough idea of combat effectiveness anything like claiming VT? While it might slightly inform Texas' targeting choices, it also gives support players info, as well as making it less likely for us to get wiped out. Yeah, it's my personal opinion/decision to share it, but general info (ranged support, ranged damage dealing, melee damage dealing) gives great information for battle planning without giving much more information to the other thread than they already have from our rank preferences.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:42
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GeneX posted:Vanilla town is an non-self-verifiable claim of a role of extremely low value for the NK Sure, but it can be disproven very easily by town PRs if they're ever seen moving in the night, etc, so it doesn't seem to me like it's that much of a "free claim." This is a little bit of a tangent so we don't need to go down this road too much farther, but the logic just doesn't add up to me.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:48
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:How is giving a rough idea of combat effectiveness anything like claiming VT? but, like, that's not rolefishing Kashuno was asking you to NOT give out role info, not fishing for info I think I need a nap
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Dec 31, 2017 18:53
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GeneX posted:but, like, that's not rolefishing I didn't give out role info. I didn't give any hint whatsoever as to whether I was a pawn, knight, bishop, or queen. Coming out and saying, "Oh look Tobbs is basically claiming VT" is asking for that info, which I'm not sharing.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:57
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:I didn't give out role info. I didn't give any hint whatsoever as to whether I was a pawn, knight, bishop, or queen. Kid thinks ol' Tobbs got their wires crossed. Accusing Kash of trying to get information out of them Kash doesn't was disseminated through the camp in either case. Way Kid sees it, Tobbs claiming some form of bullet sponge is asking for coordinated sabotage - or, more likely, for everyone to ignore them. Doesn't sit right with the Kid.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:03
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Tobbs this is a weird reach even for you. I’m saying the tank claim is similar to a BT claim because of the following: “I can take a beating but not do much damage” is similar to a VT claim, in that you have given the opposing team a lot of information without helping Town much. It tells their team to either ignore you and spread their attacks elsewhere, OR to bang you down in a massive attack. It ALSO tells the scum team in our thread information about who not to target with their abilities because you outright stated you are low damage and therefore unlikely to assist much in terms of killing the other side. You gave both the other thread and the scum team far more information than you have given Town, and furthermore painted yourself in a way that the other team could ignore you in combat Not good for Town, very good for not Town. You are therefore not town
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Dec 31, 2017 19:19
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Kashuno posted:Tobbs this is a weird reach even for you. I’m saying the tank claim is similar to a BT claim because of the following: Basically all of this is wrong. I can't decide if you're being myopic on purpose, because you're scum, or if you just don't care enough to think about the words you're typing.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:26
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Basically all of this is wrong. I can't decide if you're being myopic on purpose, because you're scum, or if you just don't care enough to think about the words you're typing. No dude, I'm pretty sure it's right, and also your flailing is not a good look
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Dec 31, 2017 19:29
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Kid rethinks his suspicions a bit, given the conversation. ##vote Tobbs
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Dec 31, 2017 19:30
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Even though he probably should have kept it to himself or maybe been a little more circumspect, I see nothing really wrong with Tobbs giving up some information. And just saying that he can take a lot of damage but might not deal a lot out isn't exactly game breaking information.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:37
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Tobbs is town, friends. He admirably pressure cased me. He’s just loud. Gene, I said that your writing style is consistent with the Christmas dealie. However, your actual substance is different than that game. Is this a conscious effort on your part?
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Dec 31, 2017 19:37
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Your Personal Muse posted:Tobbs is town, friends. He admirably pressure cased me. He’s just loud. This is my take on it as well. Well, except he hasn't cased me. I'm having a little trouble with you right now YPM. I know we've only played a few games together, but I remember that we tended to butt heads often. However, I haven't really seen anything from you yet that has pinged me and I find myself thinking your posts have been pretty good. I just don't know if that's a good or a bad thing right now.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:46
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Your Personal Muse posted:Tobbs is town, friends. He admirably pressure cased me. He’s just loud. I think the benefits of not explaining all my thoughts crossed my mind once or twice (notably when deciding against writing out why I interpreted any given answer set in a specific way), but if my posts are very different, it's not intentional if we're doing tobbs opinions I can't quite figure out whether his flinging poo at Kashuno and everything else is unbalanced scum or angry town
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Dec 31, 2017 19:48
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I’d be willing to buy the Tobbs is Town with really dumb opinions, becaus ethat is his style
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Dec 31, 2017 19:54
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Tanking, in any game, only works if the opponent has a reason to focus you over other targets. By telling the other team this, Tobbs' removed that reason. Its possible he said that on purpose because of some ability he has, or maybe it was just a dumb mistake. The only alignment relevant thing I can see is that scum have a reason to want to go into battle but not get targeted, so maybe Tobbs' is purposefully trying to avoid damage in combat so he can dish out maximum hurt to the Glorious Mexican Army without getting killed himself. There's too many other possibilities though, so I'm just gonna keep an eye on him for now. I'm more suspicious of people who have been actively buddying up this game, like MMT/TMM in the beginning, or Quid and Hal later on in the thread. As little content as you generally get D1, that kind of behavior stands out to me because it sets other players up to have a blind spot towards you later in the game.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:57
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TMMadman posted:This is my take on it as well. Well, except he hasn't cased me. I’m sorry that I haven’t insulted you ten posts in or called you scum. I understand why you’d be troubled by that
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Dec 31, 2017 19:58
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Tobbs is probably town. All I'm seeing is a ton of people meta-gaming based on previous games, even though Podima has explicitly said he has changed things up so meta-gaming the thread won't work. Meta-gamers are probably the scum, tbh. They get wrong information put into the thread, while seeming helpful but taking out guys that are actually trying to work out the rules of this thread ##vote Kashuno
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Dec 31, 2017 19:59
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Slaan posted:Tobbs is probably town. All I'm seeing is a ton of people meta-gaming based on previous games, even though Podima has explicitly said he has changed things up so meta-gaming the thread won't work. Meta-gamers are probably the scum, tbh. They get wrong information put into the thread, while seeming helpful but taking out guys that are actually trying to work out the rules of this thread You... call out people for metagaming, then vote for the guy screaming at people to stop metagaming? Thats uh, a bad vote. Also I guess I'll ##unvote my joke vote now.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:00
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Slaan posted:Tobbs is probably town. All I'm seeing is a ton of people meta-gaming based on previous games, even though Podima has explicitly said he has changed things up so meta-gaming the thread won't work. Meta-gamers are probably the scum, tbh. They get wrong information put into the thread, while seeming helpful but taking out guys that are actually trying to work out the rules of this thread W..wha I’m not sure how you vote me after that statement.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:04
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Your Personal Muse posted:Tobbs is town, friends. He admirably pressure cased me. He’s just loud. Kid brings up somethin' to call attention to, assuming that's the case: Gamerofthegame posted:trap sprung!! Kid keeps looking back at this little exchange, realizing it was right before ol' Tobbs' attempt to case Muse. Kid's soft spoken, but he's trying to catch things others miss. Especially since Gamer notably dropped the 'case' without pretense afterward. Way Kid figures, if we're rolling with the assumption that case proved Tobbs' innocence, Gamer comes out looking all the shadier for it.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:04
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Oh yeah, I forgot to ##unvote.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:05
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TMMadman posted:Oh yeah, I forgot to ##unvote. and by that I mean ##unvote
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Dec 31, 2017 20:05
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Holy poo poo dude you really are all over the place.Slaan posted:I don't. Put me in coach, estoy listo para jugar "I want to be in the front forever and always put into the fight!" Slaan posted:Well sure, but otoh kill all battle lovers. Something off about them imo. They LIKE killing! Probably a joke vote but directly contradicts his earlier stance. Slaan posted:Healing, giving front row armor/shields, giving damage boosts, etc could all be useful back row roles Metagaming/setup spec. Also strikes me as oddly informed about scum abilities. Slaan posted:Tobbs is probably town. All I'm seeing is a ton of people meta-gaming based on previous games, even though Podima has explicitly said he has changed things up so meta-gaming the thread won't work. Meta-gamers are probably the scum, tbh. They get wrong information put into the thread, while seeming helpful but taking out guys that are actually trying to work out the rules of this thread Then this bad post. Calls out people for setup spec, which I agree is useless, then drops a vote on Kash, who has spent the game yelling at people to stop setup spec'ing/metagaming. Aside from the lovely vote, Slaan also participated in setup spec so why the sudden change of opinion? ##vote Slaan
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Dec 31, 2017 20:05
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TMMadman posted:Oh yeah, I forgot to ##unvote. Now you’re just trolling me 😡
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Dec 31, 2017 20:05
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What I'm seeing is Tobbs trying to get basic information put out that that he thinks is useful for battlefield strategy. Then Kashuno and others massively overthinking things and pointing to rules that may or may not actually work like they are claiming. I'll take more information, not making GBS threads on it, thanks.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:07
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Kashuno posted:Now you’re just trolling me 😡 My vote was never a real one.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:07
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Truth Quark posted:Holy poo poo dude you really are all over the place. Those were all clearly joke votes, except the "potential" abilities. That was telling people to chill about the front/back row stuff because we don't know if that is possible yet.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:08
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Slaan posted:What I'm seeing is Tobbs trying to get basic information put out that that he thinks is useful for battlefield strategy. Well that explains the vote a bit more, and while it makes sense to me I still want to know: do you think Tobbs' revelation about his role helps town and why? I'll leave the argument about whether the rest of the speculation is useful or not to town to other more knowledgeable players.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:09
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 Three reminders for people as they put in actions:  1. Please submit actions using the actual name of your ability! There are 50 of you (for now...) and if I have to do detective work to figure out which ability you might be talking about when you say "stab XYZ," that will be a problem.2. Please submit your actions using Column E of your character sheet, rather than PMing me. (If this is a serious issue for you, let me know and we'll work through it.) 3. Day action/item usage submissions (or lack thereof) are locked in when the hammer falls for your thread. All Day actions/item effects resolve simultaneously at the end of the phase. Happy New Year to everyone!
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Dec 31, 2017 20:13
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We put people that say they are tanks on the front row. If they are tanks, they take all the battlefield damage and survive proving themselves helpful there. And any scum would have a harder time knocking the front row out with direct damage abilities. This is particularly good in the first battle; we don't know how it'll shape up yet. If we have nothing but self-proclaimed tanks, then we lose fewer people than the Texans and have guys proven to be reliable for later use.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:13
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And being a Tank is only useful on the battlefield. So if the scum/enemy soldiers go after them, then we lose little. The players with better abilities are safely anonymous
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Dec 31, 2017 20:15
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Sure, but how does revealing that information help town more than scum? Kashuno and I have both explained how it actively hurts town. None of us know how Tobbs' role works, whether it forces people to target him or if he just soaks up damage better. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume scum can pick their targets (crazy I know), so what happens if they just ignore Tobbs completely and go after other targets instead of targeting the self proclaimed tank? Your answer is very wishy-washy and seems like you're avoiding really answering the question. I'm happy with my vote for now.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:17
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It doesn't work, unless everyone indicates if they are tank or not. Having a wall of meat helps; having a single guy the other guys know to avoid actively hurts us. I agree that only one or two people doing it just helps scum more.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:20
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Slaan posted:It doesn't work, unless everyone indicates if they are tank or not. Having a wall of meat helps; having a single guy the other guys know to avoid actively hurts us. So... you're role fishing then? You want more people to reveal their combat roles? Scum have a traditional NK if I'm not mistaken, so outside of traditional BPs and stuff I assume they have ways of dealing with players who have claimed to be difficult to kill by reducing their hp to 0. Like revealing our combat roles in more detail will eventually be useful I think, but not this early and definitely not just one or two guys. It just gives scum information on who to target at night to make the game easier for the filthy Texans.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:25
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Slaan posted:We put people that say they are tanks on the front row. If they are tanks, they take all the battlefield damage and survive proving themselves helpful there. And any scum would have a harder time knocking the front row out with direct damage abilities. This is particularly good in the first battle; we don't know how it'll shape up yet. If we have nothing but self-proclaimed tanks, then we lose fewer people than the Texans and have guys proven to be reliable for later use. Slaan posted:And being a Tank is only useful on the battlefield. So if the scum/enemy soldiers go after them, then we lose little. The players with better abilities are safely anonymous You seem pretty invested in calling the dogs off Tobbs. This doesn't really look good for either of you. though "town tobbs trips over his own dick" is definitely plausible
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Dec 31, 2017 20:29
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Not really. I'm just giving examples of how it could help because you asked and to help prove that Tobbs was probably acting town, not trying to call out targets for scum. I think we need to wait and see myself. We don't know how the rules will end up working. Either we go all in on it (and only for relatively useless tanks. We don't want to call out healers, etc for scum to target) or nobody says anything. Using tanks strategically would require a critical mass to be effective, but that won't be reached voluntarily. People roles are only going to come out over time naturally.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:32
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GeneX posted:Easiest way to quickly collect and compare info, and once I did the texas thread I figured I should do it for us too since I thought it could be used as a scumhunting aid (+it’s probably helpful to have around for KB) Why did you do Texas first? That's what's weird to me. Imo priority one is sussing out the scum in our thread.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:34
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Oh my god look people he other thread is people who can read(?) and make battle plans off of what we post they aren’t loving robots. REVEALING SPECIFICS ABOUT YOUR ABILTIIES AND ROLES FOR NO GAIN IS NON TOWN SO PLEASE SHUT THE gently caress UP Don’t @ me
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Dec 31, 2017 20:37
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