|
Hi Here's a ##vote OMGVBFLOL to cut down on my use of google translate, as promised
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 03:03
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 13:20 |
|
|
King Burgundy posted:It has begun. sure has
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 03:29
|
|
|
chaoslord posted:Also who is going to be responsible for reading the other thread? King Burgundy, hopefully. I'll write up a thing in about a day but for maximum effectiveness of said thing let's not talk about the texans for now
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Murmur Twin posted:
absolutely not
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
King Burgundy posted:Why is that? A bunch of the questions give too much info to the other side if collected and used for targeting purposes; indeed, I've got an excel sheet of all 10 of their current answers to help the good soldiers of the DdN figure out who to focus fire on. Answers past this post are much more suspect, but I suppose that helps us, too, since it screws with Bifauxnen, enough that I'd rather explain now than wait for more revelations. It's also great for scum to learn who's worth an NK so I highly encourage any of our brave mexicans behind enemy lines to look at the incoming incomplete dataset for inspiration. For instance: if Natural 20 isn't lying (strong/risky townplay or just being on our side), he's claimed (by saying "I really don't want to be on the battlefield right now, and want to in the future, because I have rare melee powers") that he gets stronger melee abilities in the late game. That's possibly useful info for us and our brave comrades in the heart of texas.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 04:26
|
|
|
Here's what I've got, past here all info for bif is suspect (no thanks needed, friend) and also less useful for us and our mexican brethren/sistren in thread 2: As for KB's questions: 1) A 2) B until a thing 3) B until a thing, then A
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
Oh wait, just reread my abilities and thought for a second, I absolutely should stay in the back at all times. So revise my answers to: 1) A 2) A until a thing then B 3) B no matter what
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 04:54
|
|
|
Mafia edit: oh god dammit swap B and A for my answer to Q2
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 04:58
|
|
|
Gamerofthegame posted:hey I noticed we're starting but I'm also going to sleep so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS_6-IwMPjM
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 06:44
|
|
|
Ok 21 people posted answers to Bif's questions in that thread, I'm tired, here's what I've got, good night I now have thoughts on probable scum tactics for answering/preferences but I'd rather not post those in the same post as giant list of people's answers, for obvious reasons
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2017 10:29
|
|
|
Hi ok I'm back, staring rudely at the people who thought I was "trying to look busy", and also giggling at Kashuno getting antsy over me rereading my role spreadsheet (I still managed to gently caress it up even after revision #3, and would like to publicly note that my powerset is extremely obnoxious to strategize for. Thanks, Podima.) I'm also annoyed at myself for loving up imgur links so badly but whatever I'll repost and finish the other thread's answers when it's relevant for in-battle targeting purposes, so probably at dayend. That said there's actually enough to go on now beyond mostly-noise jokephase posts so scumhunting ho First thing to note is that scum mostly don't want to be in the front row, though there's minor risks of scum actually having powers that work better in the front row (eg ranged powers, which I'm assuming can fire backwards for scum. If that's not the case, then this entire point takes on double urgency, because the front row strongly neuters scum). Second thing to note is that weakly wanting to be in or out of battle is scummy, even if there are definitely builds where it would make sense. All that said, the combination of answers is what's probably most important here. As such, I made another spreadsheet for this thread, as we're at 23/25 people. This one will work, because I remembered to link the image itself:  Here's the answer sets I think are most notable: Lord of Hats: "I'd like to always be in good position to murder my threadmates, but I'll happily NK outside of battle if not picked." The change is a +, as "HELL YES FIGHT FIGHT" answers are +town because scum really don't want to die in battle, but that initial answer didn't vanish forever. chaoslord: "I don't care but let me choose answers that let me squirm away if I need to, also put me in back" is pretty bad. Quidthulhu: I honestly can't think of a powerset that gives someone a reason to both really want to fight tonight and not care much about the future (vs noting that your answer will change), so this is weird as hell. Not scummy weird though, more just...weird-weird. Anomalous Amalgam: See chaoslord. Tobbs: See Quid, but I actually like this answer a bit better because of not caring where he's at in the battle. Gamer: Didn't answer the question very well And now let's take a closer look at what the people I think have especially scummy answers have posted: Hats: A very special lecture on friendship and battlephase, asking KB for info our glorious leader probably shouldn't share right now, and not much else. I don't like the first post all that much in light of him not posting, well, anything else relating to the battle; reads almost like trying to discourage scumhunting in favor of mechanics land, where scum can happily hide (the converse "who cares about the fighting" is also bad btw) chaoslord: Lots of white noise (jokephase content), side-eyeing Hats, poking Quid over a pretty good D1 vote on AA, aforementioned not caring about battlephase, open-endedly questioning Tobbs. None of this is especially positive, and some of it is actively negative. AA: 2 posts, 1 an answer to KB and the other a "nothing's happening so I'm gonna go"; that's not great townplay, but it's more not much of anything at all. I think of these 3, I'm feeling worst about Hats with chaoslord a close 2nd. So ##vote The Lord of Hats. Other things: Gamer almost certainly reading the texas thread instead of this one is strange and making me look at him a bit funny. TMMadman posted:
Quid, because I really want to figure out where the hell his answer to KB came from. Similar reasoning for Tobbs, my second choice.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 04:36
|
|
|
Max Peck posted:Okay, a, tells don't work like that; b, no, you don't, because this is still kind of the tail end of jokephase. the secret is that jokephase never ends
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
Kashuno posted:There is not a minor risk of scum having powers that benefit them in the front row, it’s almost a given that there will be scum who have powers that will function better in the front or have the potential to dramatically weaken our front line. You can’t make any inference on alignment based on line selection, and even implying you can do so is dangerous and creates a possible blind spot for future reads. There is no reason (outside of knowledge you’ve obtained outside of thread) to assume front row neuters scum, period. More people can hit you when you're in the front, this is bad for scum who very much want to not be hit. Of course there are probably exceptions to everything but 6 people potentially hitting you vs. 3 is a significant difference. The "neutering scum" thing was my musing on how sucm ranged attacks worked from that front row, since I don't know if Podima's giant rules post actually explained them and I've never played a soldiers game before. Anyway, it's less that people are probably scum for wanting to be in back, and more that people are likely town if they're happy to be in front. The survivability argument is better as an argument for why someone is on the side of the angels for their willingness to die than the converse, since there are definitely town members who very specifically want to be in battle and not die, but there aren't likely to be many (if any) scum who are good with being shot to death by their texan pals. quote:To the next point: wanting to weakly be in or out of battle is a sensible option. Someone may have an ability that they think has a strong use in battle while simultaneously having one that may have a strong use at home, and be unsure which of those abilities is more useful at this point. They may be specifically willing to go into battle early but not want to draw attention to themselves from readers in the other thread. The battle questions are l, as of now, simply battle questions that KB can use to draw combat mappings from. Treating them as anything deeper on face is dangerous at best and a false narrative at worst. That is a great reason why your answer might change in the future, but not why you don't want to commit to a choice now, which is why there was a "my answer might change in the future and for a specific reason" option in the 2nd question. Which was only picked by the "I weakly want to fight from a scum-advantageous position, with an out" duo or Moatilata who said they didn't want to be in battle yet anyway. What I'm reading in your post is "there's specific situations in which a given interpretation of someone's answers might be wrong, and also they aren't intended to reveal things, so they're valueless" which is a very bad argument. They're supplements to scumhunting and reasons for initial suspicion, not damning indictments unto themselves.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 05:20
|
|
|
Mafia Edit: If you're confused on why I'm confused about scum ranged attacks, here's Pod's notes on it: "SCUM players can use MELEE abilities on the same rank and RANGED abilities on the next rank, so a SCUM player in REAR A could use MELEE on the REAR A rank and RANGED abilities on the FRONT A rank." What I got from that is that scum meleers can murk people in the same row, but it's unclear if the scum rangers in the front row can shoot the back row (while the opposite is definitely true). I suspect that the answer is yes, but if the answer is no, i.e. scum in the front row [i]can't[i] turn around and shoot the rearguard, then being in the back row also gives scum more targeting opportunities.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 05:24
|
|
|
Tobbs Gnawed posted:I'll admit the second quote is dumb since a re-re-read of the rules indicates Bif can talk OOT with scum in our thread (and KB can do the same with our brave men and women behind enemy lines). wait what wait does that actually change any of my analysis, I don't think so
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 05:27
|
|
|
Kashuno posted:Gene you are objectively wrong no i'm not
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 05:31
|
|
|
Kashuno posted:Yes, you actually are. I’m not going to type up an essay of my experience with soldiers games but trust me on this: using row selection as a credential in any way to gauge towniness, especially this early on is wrong I'm pretty sure that I'm correct but I'll bow to your experience claim and concede the point, maybe practice plays out different than theory if someone else has played these games and disagrees with kashuno, please speak up
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
chaoslord posted:Quids vote was absolutely terrible, are you kidding me with this? no, a d1 vote on a guy who decided to drop answers and cover for not doing anything else is fine I mean the actual wording of the vote post was weird but the vote itself is fine and definitely not terrible
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 06:24
|
|
|
I could be reading Quid wrong, given that "not enough that you felt you needed to comment on your absence?" is a nonsense phrase, but what I think he meant was "you read enough to know to answer KB's questions, and are excusing yourself for doing nothing else" which is scummy because it's a bit overly paranoid for D1 town that said I would like Quid to explain in his own words
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 06:39
|
|
|
Max Peck posted:I think you've missed the section in the rules with the header "== THE SCUM =="? That's what Tobbs is seeing when he says it's in the rules. This one? "Each thread has a SCUM faction allied with the TOWN in the opposite thread. These players have abilities that follow the same rules as above, but with some slight differences: - Scum MELEE abilities may ONLY be used on THEIR OWN rank. - Scum RANGED abilities may ONLY be used on the rank DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEM. NOTE: Scum's battle abilities are a degree more powerful than town's. A Leader putting scum in battle is almost certainly going to have more casualties as a result." Oh. I guess scum can't shoot backwards after all. On further thought I also seem to have forgotten that ranged abilities can use the same stats as melee abilities, and so scum with ranged powers in the front row are unlikely to be as crippled as my conception of them as pure archers would imply (as they probably also have melee powers), so I guess it all cancels out and returns to the same "nuh uh" "yes huh" "nuh uh and also I have experience" "oh ok" thing
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 06:57
|
|
|
I thought we already established, by virtue of no one disagreeing with kashuno, that where people want to be in battle is not alignment-indicative
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
So are you saying your opinion on row-stuff changed, or was your comment always going to be "it says nothing about people's alignments"?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 16:38
|
|
|
Moatillata posted:Blood meridian is one of my favorite books, montahin I advise you avoid the jakes after this game Easiest way to quickly collect and compare info, and once I did the texas thread I figured I should do it for us too since I thought it could be used as a scumhunting aid (+it’s probably helpful to have around for KB)
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 18:17
|
|
|
Tobbs Gnawed posted:Stop rolefishing. ...what? Explain. Not the definition of rolefishing, but rather why on earth you think Kashuno is doing it
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
Vanilla town is an non-self-verifiable claim of a role of extremely low value for the NK It puts power roles at greater risk and cannot be proven by itself, meaning it’s a completely free scum fakeclaim at all times, just behind miller.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
Tobbs Gnawed posted:How is giving a rough idea of combat effectiveness anything like claiming VT? but, like, that's not rolefishing Kashuno was asking you to NOT give out role info, not fishing for info I think I need a nap
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
Tobbs Gnawed posted:Basically all of this is wrong. I can't decide if you're being myopic on purpose, because you're scum, or if you just don't care enough to think about the words you're typing. No dude, I'm pretty sure it's right, and also your flailing is not a good look
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 19:29
|
|
|
Your Personal Muse posted:Tobbs is town, friends. He admirably pressure cased me. He’s just loud. I think the benefits of not explaining all my thoughts crossed my mind once or twice (notably when deciding against writing out why I interpreted any given answer set in a specific way), but if my posts are very different, it's not intentional if we're doing tobbs opinions I can't quite figure out whether his flinging poo at Kashuno and everything else is unbalanced scum or angry town
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
I'm doing another catch-up post sorrySlaan posted:What I'm seeing is Tobbs trying to get basic information put out that that he thinks is useful for battlefield strategy. tobbs' revelation seemed ill-thought out and spur of the moment much more than deliberately planned, so everyone who was focusing on the claim for whether it's pro-town or not is barking up the wrong tree (the answer is it's antitown, but not hugely so). Looking over all of his posts with the benefit of rest, I think he's more likely to be town than scum; the attacks on Kashuno in particular make me think reflexive, defensive town, which I think outweigh the negatives of the haphazard distraction-seeking (see: whatever the hell his vote on YPM was). Additional plus for seemingly being genuine about his mechanics speculation, as all the pieces of his posts fit into the "I preempted his insight, then got into a shoving match with kashuno" world What you're claiming here is that it was cold-planned as a helpful thing rather than a "look at this shiny minor roleclaim" thing, which...that's unlikely given that his other posts are weird attacks, mechanics chat, or responses to other people Moatillata posted:Why did you do Texas first? That's what's weird to me. Imo priority one is sussing out the scum in our thread. they had lots of answers while we, in jokephase, had basically nothing. Like yeah scumhunting hooray but unless you're real invested in TMM and MMT mirroring votes on one another for fun, there's not really much to be done there so early on btw I like you and your desire to actually follow up on questions Anyway, more: I like MMT's vote on kashuno because I agree with her that Kashuno was looking at tobbs a bit skewedly (because of a real scumread or an affected one); I don't know that it's a fantastic case overall, but the vote itself is good Truth Quark's post immediately following feels like it might be scum jumping on the "I called tobbs as town" train, making me feel better about tobbs and worse about TQ Oh cool MMT's calling him out, I like her even more, and so is Quid too I've seen enough to drop a ##vote Truth Quark, he's got himself tied to a whole lot of people right now even independent of my scumread on him. Rest of my suspicions are Gamer, for...well, everything, Hats because of my previous small case and really not liking the dumb tautology he just posted, and I guess chaoslord because he hasn't done anything to shift my earlier read going to go get drunk and shut my brain off now
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2018 04:44
|
|
|
I thought Kash was listing reasons why tobbs claiming was a bad play and then saying "well you made a dumb play so you're scum", which is also what he's doing with pmush, conflating bad town play with scum play. I didn't think he was specifically listing reasons why the claim made by tobbs would come from scum; indeed, he wrote "Not good for Town, very good for not Town. You are therefore not town" which is truly awful reasoning, but overall consistent with his reaction to Pmush's ill-advised reveal and my attempts to divine literally anything from people's answers to KB. Okay, overall I think Kashuno is just town mad at people for not playing and thinking the same way he is, but I really need to reread his posts my head hurts and it's only probably the alcohol
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2018 00:25
|
|
|
Kashuno has 3 pages of posts holy gently caress, this reread was a bad idea, gonna summarize: - votes me for changing my question answers multiple times - really doesn't like the idea of using people's answers for literally anything right now - defends YPM's thoughts on Max Peck - votes Tobbs because, quoting Tobbs' reveal of being a tank, " This is the kind of thing that is and to reveal because it helps enemy targeting a lot 🙃 " - explains why he thinks it helps enemy targeting and ends it by mixing up good scum play and bad townplay - more posts about not doing antitown things - posts a "suss list" with tobbs, slaan (presumably for a completely inexplicable vote on him), and...quid+monathin? - questions MMT in - defending IllegallySober against Quid for some reason - asks AA for a read - gets into a dance with bread related to Bread calling him scum, kash thinking bread is town, then bread going after Kash calling him town without reasonong, then kashuno saying it's because Bread didn't post an actual case - another post confirming that he voted tobbs for bad town play - "Hm vote pmush this seems better for now [reasoning]" - post explosion after Pmush claims for no apparent reason - MMT is still mad at him for his vote on tobbs, Kashuno is still on the tobbs' claim helps scum road (and actually explains why on earth a scum tobbs would say what he did, instead of burying it in a huge analogy post like I noticed he did) - lots of angry posting at quid THOUGHTS: Unlike what I thought earlier, Kash actually makes sense, kinda. I'm pretty sure he's mixing up bad town play and "bad for town" play, but he has explained after the fact why he thinks the claims (by Pmush and tobbs) fit into a world where either are scum, even if in tobbs' particular case his reason for thinking he's scum is that same mix-up. Aside from his townread of bread (which...I think was a gut read?) and his early unexplained reads on Quid and Monathin, pretty much all of his other posts show a consistent view of things and some logical backing for it. Beyond that, I think his vehement response to those claiming for no reason is generally town-sided thinking, because, well, why would you call out people doing things that are bad for town as scum, especially so...vehemently? Call it out once, sure, but basically wrapping yourself in a scream cocoon just makes no sense for scum to do In sum, I have a pretty firm townread on the guy. That said: Kashuno, why did you have suspicions of Quid and Monathin early on in the game?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
Kashuno posted:You think 3 pages is bad just you wait. Huh, alright. Anything change since then on your list o' bad guy reads, besides adding PMush to it?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
Insomnia is a pain. Top 3 scumreads are currently Slaan, Hats, and Keane Slaan, because he a) had an incomprehensible vote on Kashuno for metagaming when Kashuno was doing the opposite, b) in his immediate next post implicitly asked for mechanics spec, c) completely ignored Truth Quark questioning that vote, d) reversed course on how he mechanically justifies tobbs' claim by now making it about many people claiming, e) hedged on his support for tobbs, and f) immediately tried to justify away another claim, this time by invoking wine, "gaining information", and asking this: "Question: What scenario can you guys think up where knowing this ability hurts us and helps scum?" which is literally asking town to help scum out In sum: encouraging/supporting claiming, voting with bad reasoning, and hedging on everything but mechanics chat Hats, because he a) posted about the importance of battle strategy then ignored the topic himself, b) asked KB early on D1 for info scum wants more than town, c) made a really bad, empty, and tautological post on tobbs, Kashuno, and slaan, and d) hedged on voting PMush by giving himself an out on both sides In sum: encouraging mechanics chat without actually engaging at all, posting this, and hedging on PMush Keane, because he's acting exactly like he did in christmas mafia where he tosses out reads with minimal or no explanation. I'm additionally feeling iffy about Gamer, who started out awful and seems to alternate between posts I like and posts I hate, TMM, who's been extremely content light despite having over 30 posts in the thread, and PMush, who has some real bad posts, though I can't quite see why scum would jump in and claim to be a priority target for the other thread in their one big intro post Oh and before I go back to bed: given that Slaan is my strongest scumread, ##vote Slaan.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2018 11:35
|
|
|
Mafia edit: Also AA looks bad but has barely posted, forgot they were even playing because they have like 6 posts
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2018 11:39
|
|
|
I still want to lynch Slaan but we're at less than 2 hours to deadline, I'm on my phone, there'd need to be 8 more votes for him, and I'll be gone for dayend so ##vote PMush someone post the votefinder stuff, I want to do some vote analysis stuff tomorrow, maybe
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 00:22
|
|
|
CCKeane posted:Uh, that happened really fast. Yeah
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 00:46
|
|
|
Quid was obviously writing his post for a while and I have to go in 5 minutes but I’m looking even harder at Slaan right now
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 00:51
|
|
|
Well, thread isn't locked, so I guess we can post? what the gently caress is Bifauxnen thinking
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 02:51
|
|
|
cool apropos of nothing in particular, KB, who in battle on our side do you trust the least I'm on team "TMM is a weird choice", personally Also I await your battle orders, I'm not much for damage exactly but I'll happily buzz Bif if you think we should concentrate fire
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 02:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 13:20 |
|
|
Actually yeah on further thought I probably shouldn't have hinted stuff until we got KB's input oops
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2018 03:00
|
|