HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

You don't have to sit on a ridge, you can run in and shoot everyone, one by one, so long as you're not an idiot and expose yourself needlessly.

K8.0 posted:

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Right! Fulton makes the game less fun!

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Paul MaudDib posted:

@site, mostly what you're seeing here is veteran players bitching that we wish the game would have had a more structured challenge mode with difficult extraction mechanisms and more difficult/intelligent AI in general (especially regarding extractions so it feels riskier). Yeah you can come up with whatever personal rules you want but we can't make the AI better or fundamentally change the rules of visibility/extraction/etc, and it would have been nice to see where they could have gone with an official challenge mode. The existing "extreme" and "total stealth" modes play like poo poo, they really aren't fun at all, it's just "what if every dude was a riot suit dude and no reflex", or "every dude is a riot suit dude and getting spotted was an insta-fail".

Paul MaudDib posted:

fulton is a pretty fundamental gameplay mechanic and can't be avoided in the current incarnation of the game without giving up on weapon progression/etc due to stalled progress on the base.

if you're already powerleveled and just want to roam or run missions then sure but it's really a 2-pillar game, plot and base grind, it's hard to not base grind in this game and if you take it away you're left with something that's not very deep.

Paul MaudDib posted:

what most of us are fundamentally looking for here is a reform of the base grind, then either require less extraction but more challenging extraction, or at least change up the mechanism so it's not just "extraction removes dudes from gameplay with no real risk/cost". Or at least an official challenge mode that implements that.

again, still a very fun game, but extraction is the weakest part of this compared to previous MGS titles, and extraction has to exist (in the current incarnation) because of the base grind.

maybe someday the source will leak and we can have someone hack out the entire online FOB thing and work on a little more advanced AI

Paul MaudDib posted:

helicopter extractions of dudes are not really feasible in the way the game is currently implemented. There are very limited extraction sites and almost all of them are in the middle of a base, so using them without clearing the whole base leads to an alert and often a shot-down chopper (does this kill your extracted dudes? idk)

I'd also like to see the difficulty of helicopter pickups lowered. allow them to be called in most open areas / on rooftops, significantly increase the deploy speeds so it's maybe a 15 second wait (for both helicopter fulton passes and pickups) instead of like a minute, and perhaps decrease the AI's ability to detect the chopper especially at lower levels. Like, calling it in with dudes around isn't an automatic spot, maybe the sound attracts the AI's attention and then when they see it they're like "oh poo poo that's not one of ours!" and then begin to head for AA/etc, at least at lower awareness levels. So compared to a fulton extraction, you get to pick your area, and it's a low pass and a hover instead of flying high for all the AIs to see you.

quote:

I've said before but what I'd like to see is the difficulty of fulton extractions raised - so like, instead of the balloon disappearing into the sky after two seconds, they hover in the air, and the chopper has to make a pass overhead to grab the balloon. Thus giving the AI more of a chance to see+shoot the balloons, and to see the helicopter and shoot it. You thus are encouraged to clear a decent sized area and fulton a bunch of dudes at once instead of picking them off one at a time with no risk.

finally, I'd like to see a revamp of the AI's behavior around extraction in general. Picking off dudes one at a time with nobody ever noticing feels weird. Like you can strip 3/4 of the soldiers out of a base and nobody ever notices that Johnny is suddenly gone. Maybe at mid level awareness soldiers should maybe have a check-in every couple minutes and if they don't radio back then someone goes looking for them or (at higher fulton awareness levels) the base goes on alert. And after a couple minutes the truck drives up and a bunch of reinforcements pop out to replace the dudes you took.

there just could be a lot more depth to the extraction mechanism and the way the AI reacts to it than is currently implemented. The current implementation feels like something that would have been an "easy mode" in previous titles, there could be a harder mode where fultoning isn't just freely picking dudes off and disappearing them.

if Kojima had been given the extra 27 years he needed to finish and polish the game, this is the kind of stuff that might have been tightened up.

(plus yeah, there should have been a lot more dudes in main bases too. Soviet central base camp and there's... ten dudes hanging out?)

quote:

maybe there could be a radio operator dude on the comms who is "coordinating the teams" and taking him out will decrease the enemy's coordination and prevent the reinforcements from being called, or whatever. That way you actually have to infiltrate and take out comms on a regular basis besides just preventing reinforcements during a full combat alert. Essentially, blur the line between "we've noticed 3/4 of the base has disappeared, maybe something is wrong?" and a full combat alert a bit.

quote:

none of this can be implemented by "just don't use fultons lol". helicopter extractions are impractical in the current incarnation and need tuning. Coincidentally, fultons are ridiculously easy in the current incarnation and also need tuning. The current thing would have been fine as an "easy mode" but it just lacks the "play it how you want" of previous MGS in this aspect. Fultons are "the right way" to play and helicopter extractions are "the wrong way" and you have to swim completely opposite to the incentives the game gives you if you want to do it your way.

Paul MaudDib posted:

and on the "fulton awareness" note, fulton awareness might be the most pathetically useless feature of the adaptive AI. Balloons pull you away so fast that I can probably count the number of times I've ever had a fulton shot down on a single hand, and they don't affect wormhole fultons at all. I rarely see it do more than get a caution raised.

SeANMcBAY posted:

Did you not see the last Star Wars movie?

Big Bizness posted:

That was LBJ brah, I wish it had been JFK though.

Wolfsheim posted:

sad there will never be another midquel MGS game to explain Miller's transition from multiple amputee, revenge-obsessed, paranoid psychotic in V to normal military guy in MG, presumably involving more body doubles switches, surgery, and gene therapy

Paul MaudDib posted:

I honestly rarely use the body-hiding system (it's hard to make an argument for some of these mechanics when fultoning exists and is as powerful as it is - why would you want to hide a body in a dumpster when you can hide it on mother base?). So this may be way off, but my understanding is that a stunned/sleeping enemy that is placed in a dumpster or outhouse will never wake up.

TheCenturion posted:

Yeah, but then you just fire the losers and they hide at the line of the local unemployment office.

Shear Modulus posted:

It overwrites everything but they updated Snakebite already and the old mods I've tried (biggest being some side ops mods) seem to still work

e: the last update they put out last month seemed to update the terms and conditions but no idea what this one did