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Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks


I've seen HP laserjets from the mid 90s that are still operational 20 years later. Those things were tanks.

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AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box

I have a color HP LaserJet that I got on Amazon open box for $149 3 years ago and it has performed flawlessly on my wifi since day 1.

Why can't enterprise-grade printers not be utter poo poo?

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009

Mistakes were made.
Adorable, deadly mistakes.





Dinosaur Gum

The answer, as always, is "if it works perfectly then you don't need to buy support from us and also you won't have a reason to upgrade in a couple years, because there's only so much you can improve on 'prints pixels on paper'"

but the real answer is probably a like 20/80 split of the above and good old-fashioned incompetence

it's always nice to believe that places you rely on in your day to day life couldn't ever be as incompetent as the places you've personally worked

but they are

Grassy Knowles
Apr 4, 2003
Pirate of the High Seas


Ursine Catastrophe posted:

The answer, as always, is "if it works perfectly then you don't need to buy support from us and also you won't have a reason to upgrade in a couple years, because there's only so much you can improve on 'prints pixels on paper'"

but the real answer is probably a like 20/80 split of the above and good old-fashioned incompetence

it's always nice to believe that places you rely on in your day to day life couldn't ever be as incompetent as the places you've personally worked

but they are

Often more so, and I'm not complimenting the places we've worked

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005


AlexDeGruven posted:

I have a color HP LaserJet that I got on Amazon open box for $149 3 years ago and it has performed flawlessly on my wifi since day 1.

Why can't enterprise-grade printers not be utter poo poo?

I picked a B+W laser printer out of the garbage and my mother has been printing off it for 2 years, still using the toner cart that was already in it.

dragonshardz
May 2, 2017



Sirotan posted:

^^You might have been using a postscript driver, when you needed PCL. Or maybe the other way around. I think...


I used to do the same, but pretty much all the Brothers I bought at my previous job turned out to be utter garbage. The HL-L5470's and HL-L6200's will consume their fusers within 3000-5000 prints.I went back to buying HPs.

Also, my dude, what the hell is in your avatar?

I honestly have no idea, I made some nerd mad in the EVE thread calling out his lame-rear end catchphrase (see: redtext) and he subsequently raged so hard he ate a probation, then bought the redtext + avatar. I assume it was an attempt to make me rage out but I made him spend money so I won.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

Nthing the Brother Laserjet supremacy. Got tired of the cheap inkshit printers that I only used once a year or so for whatever luddite that doesn't take a scanned email always needing replacement ink or just having spontaneously shat themselves from disuse.

Inkjets are basically designed so that if you don't use them constantly the ink dries up and lol whoops gotta buy more ink at $50 in each color haha you just spent more on ink than you did on the print.

gently caress inkjets.

Dravs
Mar 8, 2011

You've done well, kiddo.

I work in infrastructure.

E-mails are coming in about the new KPTI bug.

Looks like it's going to be worse than the old Pentium floating point bug. This will be a fun few weeks.

xThrasheRx
Jul 12, 2005

Surrealistic

Dravs posted:

I work in infrastructure.

E-mails are coming in about the new KPTI bug.

Looks like it's going to be worse than the old Pentium floating point bug. This will be a fun few weeks.




Already getting e-mails from upstairs about planning to patch everything ASAP. This is gonna be rough boys.

Sirotan
Oct 17, 2006

Sirotan is a seal.


College Slice

Dravs posted:

I work in infrastructure.

E-mails are coming in about the new KPTI bug.

Looks like it's going to be worse than the old Pentium floating point bug. This will be a fun few weeks.



https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/...pu_design_flaw/

quote:

At one point, Forcefully Unmap Complete Kernel With Interrupt Trampolines, aka FUCKWIT, was mulled by the Linux kernel team, giving you an idea of how annoying this has been for the developers.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004






The Register are such smarmy cunts.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks


Jaded Burnout posted:

The Register are such smarmy cunts.

Thatís why theyíre great.

my cat is norris
Mar 11, 2010

#onecallcat



College Slice

That flaw is over my head by a degree or two. I think I understand what's happening, on the mundane level, though I don't fully understand the impact. Is this more of an infrastructure issue, or will user-side workstations be impacted, too? We're all Dell in this office, which means we've got Intel chips all over the place.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Potentially every Intel chip for the last decade. Because the flaw could expose privileged data from a web browser's JavaScript, expect all workstations to require firmware updates.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



And slow down significantly.

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas Magic


Fallen Rib

Feelin' real good about having gone with an AMD chip when I built my gaming computer two years ago

Everyone having to deal with this has my sympathies. I really and truly mean that.

my cat is norris
Mar 11, 2010

#onecallcat



College Slice

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Potentially every Intel chip for the last decade. Because the flaw could expose privileged data from a web browser's JavaScript, expect all workstations to require firmware updates.

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying! Some articles I read about the bug kinda fixated on cloud computing and services, which confused my understanding of things.

I'm without a doubt going to have to shoulder the workload of updating everyone's firmware once my boss comes up with a strategy. Can't wait!

Kosh Naranek
Mar 8, 2008

Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and a pair of ruby slippers.


Irritated Goat posted:

Run over by the CE's truck.

But how will we get our Larches fix then? First time checking the old/new thread for a few months and no Larches update

A Pinball Wizard
Mar 23, 2005

I know every trick, no freak's gonna beat my hands



College Slice

my cat is norris posted:

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying! Some articles I read about the bug kinda fixated on cloud computing and services, which confused my understanding of things.

I'm without a doubt going to have to shoulder the workload of updating everyone's firmware once my boss comes up with a strategy. Can't wait!

Well it's especially scary because it allows one VM to read memory used by any VM (or other process) on the system.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

Black Summer was the best summer.

So basically this shortcut has given intel a massive competitive advantage for the last decade in performance?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Entropic posted:

Thatís why theyíre great.

They also have a whole workshop's worth of axes to grind.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Sickening posted:

So basically this shortcut has given intel a massive competitive advantage for the last decade in performance?

Yeah they beat the competition by ripping open a massive security flaw. Otherwise they wouldn't have soundly trounced the CPU market and caused this huge panic where over 50% of the world's computing power is affected.

Dravs
Mar 8, 2011

You've done well, kiddo.

Sickening posted:

So basically this shortcut has given intel a massive competitive advantage for the last decade in performance?

It's not really a shortcut, it's just architecture that they didn't realise (at the time) could be leveraged this way. Essentially the issue exists because when one of the affected chips has to do a calculation that has to be handed off to the kernel, it keeps the kernel loaded into temporary memory to make the processing faster rather than having to reload the kernel for every subsequent calculation (I think; it's a bit over my head as well tbh).

Some boffin somewhere figured out a way to exploit the kernel while it is loaded into temporary memory, allowing them to do all kinds of fuckery. The fix means that Intel chips will now have to call the kernel up every time it is needed rather than keep it in temporary memory which will slow down processing time hugely.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too worried about regular desktop computers since they don't really see the number of IOPs where this will really be a problem. The big issue will be seen on clusters where IOPs are required at a premium and things like SQL processing. That is why AWS and Microsoft will be so badly impacted because their butt processing is massive. I'm sure they will be able to brute force spend their way out of it, however a 30% slowdown across their entire estate is the thing of nightmares.

Edit: Also this only seems to be affecting CPU architectures in between Sandy Bridge and Coffee Lake (so like the 3000 series to the 7000 series?), so if you are still running a 2550k on your home PC like I am then you shouldn't see any problems.

Dravs fucked around with this message at Jan 3, 2018 around 15:15

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015


Entropic posted:

I've seen HP laserjets from the mid 90s that are still operational 20 years later. Those things were tanks.

We've got a pair of Laserjet p2035n's that have been going strong for almost 10 years now. They never jam, toner is cheap, and they're reasonably fast. We put a couple hundred pages per day through them.

Our big MFPs on the other hand...

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009

Mistakes were made.
Adorable, deadly mistakes.





Dinosaur Gum

Malachite_Dragon posted:

Feelin' real good about having gone with an AMD chip when I built my gaming computer two years ago

Everyone having to deal with this has my sympathies. I really and truly mean that.

Oh don't worry, you might end up being caught in it anyways

quote:

OS kernel-level software patches to mitigate this vulnerability, come at huge performance costs that strike at the very economics of choosing Intel processors in large-scale datacenters and cloud-computing providers, over processors from AMD. Ryzen, Opteron, and EPYC processors are inherently immune to this vulnerability, yet the kernel patches seem to impact performance of both AMD and Intel processors.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Dravs posted:


Edit: Also this only seems to be affecting CPU architectures in between Sandy Bridge and Coffee Lake (so like the 3000 series to the 7000 series?), so if you are still running a 2550k on your home PC like I am then you shouldn't see any problems.

Sandy and Ivy are the same uArch (mostly), with Ivy being the Tock, so unless part of that Tock and deepening the pipeline + adding new instructions also modified the branch predictor, theyíre probably either both vulnerable or not. Ivy was only a ~5% clock for clock CPU bump over SNB IIRC.

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box

/me hugs his RISC boxes. We'll always be safe, won't we?

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

I'm here to kiss tittiess and win football games!


Pillbug

Shoot me down
But I won't fall
I AM ITAAAAANIIIIUMMM

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

I am quite pissed at my fat man avatar.
I am too politically correct to say this out loud though.
I yearn for a reason to exist.
Help.


Fun Shoe

brb dredging up old SPARC boxes

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





Dravs posted:

Edit: Also this only seems to be affecting CPU architectures in between Sandy Bridge and Coffee Lake (so like the 3000 series to the 7000 series?), so if you are still running a 2550k on your home PC like I am then you shouldn't see any problems.

When you say "in between" do you mean inclusive? As 3000 series are Sandy Bridge.

Also what's your source on this? I can't find any detail.

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Grimey Drawer

3000 series is Ivy, 2000 is Sandy.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004





iospace posted:

3000 series is Ivy, 2000 is Sandy.

This one's mine according to Intel.


Edit: I'm not pretending to be an expert here, I've never followed the dumb codenames closely.

Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at Jan 3, 2018 around 18:13

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT BEING A NEO-LIBERAL DEATH CULT APOLOGIST!


Dravs posted:

That is why AWS and Microsoft will be so badly impacted because their butt processing is massive.

cloud to butt continues to be pay dividends

stevewm
May 10, 2005


PremiumSupport posted:

.... They never jam, toner is cheap, and they're reasonably fast......

What alternate universe do you live in where printers never jam? And how do I get there?

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009

Mistakes were made.
Adorable, deadly mistakes.





Dinosaur Gum

stevewm posted:

What alternate universe do you live in where printers never jam? And how do I get there?

I don't think I've ever had a personal-use printer jam ever, although even when I printed a lot it was never anything fancy and not-8x10. I've always assumed jams were user error, either in the immediate sense or "I just take out my frustrations with my inability to use tech via spontaneous percussive maintenance, what do you mean that damages it it's working fine now"

Or just long term wear and tear, but lol at a printer in a shared environment lasting long enough for that

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

I am quite pissed at my fat man avatar.
I am too politically correct to say this out loud though.
I yearn for a reason to exist.
Help.


Fun Shoe

Don't let your paper get damp/dusty seems to be the way to avoid paper jams. Leave it in the waxy packet until it's ready to use, if you only print a couple of sheets each week then don't put the entire ream of paper into your printer.

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015


stevewm posted:

What alternate universe do you live in where printers never jam? And how do I get there?

Buy a Laserjet P2035n?

Seriously though they've never given me any trouble at all, same thing with the cheap-rear end monochrome Brother units we have scattered around.

We tried HP Inkjets for a while but had nothing but issues with them, and our MFPs that we lease jam on a regular basis.

stevewm
May 10, 2005


In our environment we are lucky to ever have a printer last more than a year. Doesn't matter if its a cheap $150 personal laser printer, or a $1000 high volume printer.

They are in somewhat dusty retail hardware/lumberyard/building supply type stores.

So I just buy the cheap $150 laser printer now... Use it until it dies, and get a new one.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007


Thanks Ants posted:

Don't let your paper get damp/dusty seems to be the way to avoid paper jams. Leave it in the waxy packet until it's ready to use, if you only print a couple of sheets each week then don't put the entire ream of paper into your printer.

Also, riffling the paper before you load it seems to help with breaking up any electrostatic charge the paper might hold due to friction.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


So the 4 series is getting hit hard according to early reports? Fuuuuuuuck, I just gave my wife my old Haswell desktop. She is going to be pissed when it suddenly slows down a ton.

I guess itís still time to just sit and wait and see how bad it is.

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The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



22 Eargesplitten posted:

So the 4 series is getting hit hard according to early reports? Fuuuuuuuck, I just gave my wife my old Haswell desktop. She is going to be pissed when it suddenly slows down a ton.

I guess itís still time to just sit and wait and see how bad it is.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p...15-x86pti&num=2

Initial benchmarks on linux kernel changes.

Desktop performance is likely to be minimally impacted. They specifically call out game performance is being mostly unaffected.

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